The Official MMA Discussion Thread

[jesterx7769]

While I agree he may overexagerrating with the 5 going on in the same night, what he means is truely going international. He doesn't mean he will have BJ defending in the U.S., Silva defending in the UK, GSP in Canada, he means having entirely different "brands" going on at once.

 

They are getting closer to expanding TUF around the world which he has said is a major goal, so what they could do is have the Japan/China/India/UK/Germany TUF finale all going on at once. I imagine that yes they would be smaller shows because you are not going to have your top stars appearing on the card in Vegas and then smaller shows around the world (b/c who would watch those just for local guys?)

 

by doing things like that you could establish foreign stars faster instead of putting them on undercard after undercard and of course they would sell lots in their home market where the US wouldn't really care about them (see Bisping and Hardy). Once they are established in their home region you could then put them on major UFC events as you would then have for example the China TUF winner vs. the German TUF winner, something that could actually draw global interest. It also isn't like you would "miss out" on anything as the UFC could also put matches on TV the next week or online. The doing it all on one night might seem crazy, but it may easier than running events 5 days in a row at the end of every month.

 

They also now have offices in Canada, China, and their working relationship with the Middle Eastern country which essentially counts as an office since they organize those events, and they said an India office is likely next.

 

Also Dustin, Wand vs. Leben has been publicly scratched due to Wands injuries and time he will need to recover.

[Trashbear]

Maybe they're referring to something similar to what WWF did with Wrestlemania 3. They had multiple shows going on around the United States that were under the same banner. Think of it like that.

 

That was WrestleMania 2, wasn't it? 3 was the Pontiac Silver Dome, Hogan vs. Andre.

 

2 was almost utter, utter ****. The goofy "3 Venues, 1 Show" deal didn't hide the fact that there was an Uncle Elmer match on the card.

[Zoloftjunkie]

There is talks about Fedor or I should say M1 not wanting to have the champion clause if he is to fight Allstar Ubereem for the title. M1 wants a rematch with ver-Doom but strikeforce wants the title fight to keep Fedor tied up with the company if he wins and not worry about him being a free agent and singing elsewhere if he loses. They def. don't want him winning a rematch with Dr.Doom and leaving. And all this long paragraph is leading up to my question. Where is it that M1 is wanting him to go? Why are they afraid of him getting stuck fighting for strikeforce? I thought UFC was out of the picture now and I thought he was making more money here then he could with FEG's companies, which strikeforce has an open relationship with anyway. Anyone have light to shed on this?

[Daffanka]

I thought Strikeforce didn't have champion's clauses? Or was Shields' case an exception since they bought his contract from EliteXC?

 

Either way it's probably just posturing from M-1 or an attempt to get out of a fight with Overeem. The loss to Werdum means they can't jerk Coker around with ridiculous demands anymore and two losses in a row would mean Fedor is done as a method of extorting B-league companies.

 

I'm not sure how profitable a series of fights with Overeem/Barnett/Werdum (?) in Japan would be at this point either. If it didn't happen in Japan it didn't happen at all but FEG might be close to pulling the plug on MMA if Aoki - Kawajiri doesn't do good numbers.

[RingofHonorGuard]

I'm not sure how profitable a series of fights with Overeem/Barnett/Werdum (?) in Japan would be at this point either. If it didn't happen in Japan it didn't happen at all but FEG might be close to pulling the plug on MMA if Aoki - Kawajiri doesn't do good numbers.

 

It's no secret that Dana wants to move into the Japanese market, and let's be honest... Money talks... There's gotta be a reason DREAM has used a cage a couple of times. Zuffa has money, and FEG is losing a lot of money.... Could Zuffa be using FEG(and compensating them well) to see how the cage would go over these days?

 

I'm obviously reaching out on a limb here, but then again... not really. Wouldn't be the first time Dana and company did something out of the ordinary... ie: Xyience.

[RingofHonorGuard]

That was WrestleMania 2, wasn't it? 3 was the Pontiac Silver Dome, Hogan vs. Andre.

 

2 was almost utter, utter ****. The goofy "3 Venues, 1 Show" deal didn't hide the fact that there was an Uncle Elmer match on the card.

 

Yeah, you're right. Not sure how I could confuse two and three.... probably because when I went back on history of my childhood I realized how terribly bad some of that stuff was. Good catch though.

[Dustin]

While I agree he may overexagerrating with the 5 going on in the same night, what he means is truely going international. He doesn't mean he will have BJ defending in the U.S., Silva defending in the UK, GSP in Canada, he means having entirely different "brands" going on at once.

 

They are getting closer to expanding TUF around the world which he has said is a major goal, so what they could do is have the Japan/China/India/UK/Germany TUF finale all going on at once. I imagine that yes they would be smaller shows because you are not going to have your top stars appearing on the card in Vegas and then smaller shows around the world (b/c who would watch those just for local guys?)

 

by doing things like that you could establish foreign stars faster instead of putting them on undercard after undercard and of course they would sell lots in their home market where the US wouldn't really care about them (see Bisping and Hardy). Once they are established in their home region you could then put them on major UFC events as you would then have for example the China TUF winner vs. the German TUF winner, something that could actually draw global interest. It also isn't like you would "miss out" on anything as the UFC could also put matches on TV the next week or online. The doing it all on one night might seem crazy, but it may easier than running events 5 days in a row at the end of every month.

 

They also now have offices in Canada, China, and their working relationship with the Middle Eastern country which essentially counts as an office since they organize those events, and they said an India office is likely next.

 

Also Dustin, Wand vs. Leben has been publicly scratched due to Wands injuries and time he will need to recover.

 

It makes sense.

[Daffanka]

It's no secret that Dana wants to move into the Japanese market, and let's be honest... Money talks... There's gotta be a reason DREAM has used a cage a couple of times. Zuffa has money, and FEG is losing a lot of money.... Could Zuffa be using FEG(and compensating them well) to see how the cage would go over these days?

 

I'm obviously reaching out on a limb here, but then again... not really. Wouldn't be the first time Dana and company did something out of the ordinary... ie: Xyience.

 

The UFC will never penetrate the Japanese market in a hundred years. It's absolutely impregnable to gaijin.

 

As far as I understand it, and I'm sure brashley can elaborate, even something simple like booking an arena requires yakuza connections. Then you'll pay yakuza to take care of ticket sales, pay them to get a discount on this, etc.

 

The rest of the world is the UFC's playground but they're never getting into Japan.

[RingofHonorGuard]

The UFC will never penetrate the Japanese market in a hundred years. It's absolutely impregnable to gaijin.

 

As far as I understand it, and I'm sure brashley can elaborate, even something simple like booking an arena requires yakuza connections. Then you'll pay yakuza to take care of ticket sales, pay them to get a discount on this, etc.

 

The rest of the world is the UFC's playground but they're never getting into Japan.

 

UFC just opened a HQ in China... and you think they're going to have a problem getting into Japan? UFC already has a medium size following in Japan and it's only getting bigger. I have a sister in law that lives in Japan, and her entire family loves it. And since they're by no means "hardcore" MMA fans, I'd imagine there are others

 

You bring up the Yakuza, but you have no real proof of the matter other than all the rumors that ran about with PRIDE. And just because the Yakuza might have been involved in that doesn't mean PRIDE didn't -get them- involved. The Yakuza doesn't have involvement in every single outlet of money making in Japan, and obviously most of their income is through the way of illegal Keno gambling and the like.

 

You've bested me on a lot of topics, and I you... But this is one where you're going to have to concede unless you can get Brashley to drop a bomb on me.

 

UFC has every intention of moving into EVERY market, because they want to become THE International name for MMA. Does that mean we'll see a HQ in Japan by 2012, I doubt it... But I bet we see a couple of fights in Japan before 2012 is out. There's no reason for them to sign guys with Japanese flavor such as Gomi, Uno, Akiyama, and others if they have no interest in going into the Japanese Market(something they've flirted with several times in the past)

 

Going out on a withered limb, even if the Yakuza -is- involved with everything in Japan... What makes you think that would stop Dana and Zuffa from doing business for the greater good of their company? Dana is about money. PRIDE did it, they bought PRIDE.

[Trashbear]

Yeah, you're right. Not sure how I could confuse two and three.... probably because when I went back on history of my childhood I realized how terribly bad some of that stuff was. Good catch though.

 

Yeah, my knowledge of terrible wrestling cards from years past has set me up for a high-paying career in a Fortune 500 company.

 

Back on topic, I feel that the UFC is already the International brand for MMA. I don't know how many times people have said that they "love UFC" instead of saying they "love MMA" because Dana and Co. have done such a great job building their brand over the last decade. It seems like MMA is a term known more to old school fans of the sport, or people who follow sports more closely than other people, but for the casual fan UFC is the only name that matters.

 

My knowledge of Japan is limited pretty much to importing videogames and watching wrestling, so I'm by no means an expert. But I have to think that if there's money to be made, that the organized crime elements would at least entertain the idea of dealing with Zuffa. Their ultimate goal can't be that different from organized crime in America, can it? Namely, making huge piles of green cash money.

[RingofHonorGuard]

My knowledge of Japan is limited pretty much to importing videogames and watching wrestling, so I'm by no means an expert. But I have to think that if there's money to be made, that the organized crime elements would at least entertain the idea of dealing with Zuffa. Their ultimate goal can't be that different from organized crime in America, can it? Namely, making huge piles of green cash money.

 

People who say UFC will never go into Japan because of shady businessmen are forgetting where ZUFFA comes from.... lol

 

It doesn't get much more corrupt than the heart of Las Vegas.

[brashleyholland]

Lots to catch up on!

 

Japan: Organised crime has, is and always will be a huge part of MMA, boxing, sumo (there was very recently a big betting scandal in Sumo actually), live music...the list goes on. Anything gambling related, ticket related...all sorts.

 

Comparing Japan and China business wise is apples and oranges. Completely different attitudes and cultures in business.

 

As for proof, I think I've posted some stuff way back in this thread about Yakuza involvement in the fight game...suffice to say it's 100% *NOT* rumour and speculation. Pride/K-1's links to organised crime were well publicised by the print press and TV in Japan, people have been arrested and convicted. Very important Yakuza can often be seen in special reserved seating at Pride and K-1 events. Look for a crazy old dude in a baseball cap who shakes hands with a lot of the fighters. Point being, it's all well documented and beyond speculation.

 

I speak to Enson Inoue a fair bit, a former Pride fighter who is *very* well in with the Yakuza. The only reason he isn't sworn in to the Yakuza himself is that he's not actually Japanese...but he's basically as close as you'd get to being a Yakuza. I saw a picture a couple of weeks ago of him burning a 'family crest' tattoo off a guys palm with a lighter...seriously. Point being, I've seen lots of pictures of him at Yakuza meals/banquets etc that he is expected to attend. He snaps pics with his phone. The man is nuts.

 

Zuffa can't be seen to do business with these people, because of the other business interests the brothers Fertitta have. It makes things very difficult for them. Funny really, considering their past and the current trade union allegations being made against them in the US (violence against members of staff who aren't 'playing along') :-p

 

It's one thing to show your events in Japan, that's just like showing a TV show. But you can't just walk into Japan and 'do business'. You can't book buildings, distribute tickets, get TV/advertising contracts etc without the right people on your side. Who knows, maybe it'll happen one day...nothing is impossible when money is involved.

 

Strikeforce/Fedor: They don't currently have a champion's clause, but the shoe is on the other foot now with regards to SF and M1. This time, M-1 are happy to proceed with the current contract and are asking for Werdum. Strikeforce want a renegotiation with a champion's clause for a fight with Overeem.

 

M-1 will refuse to extend the contract and it will reach an impasse...it'll be Strikeforce's move from there. Could end up with Fedor vs Silva as there is apparently some kind of time limit on the contract...M1 are saying the fight will be October or November.

 

Multiple UFC's on one night: As I understand it, you'd have one event in Australia on Sunday afternoon, one very late Saturday evening in the UK/EU and a regular/slightly earlier one in the US.

 

Lets say for example; Sotiropoulos vs Kenny Florian as the main event in OZ, Bisping vs Marquardt as the main event in the UK and Rampage vs Shogun as the main event in the US. Then maybe Cro Cop vs Schaub, Hardy vs Fitch and Lil Nog vs Jon Jones as co-main events on the respective cards.

 

The main events would be staggered by an hour, the PPV supercard you would by would be:

 

Main: Rampage vs Shogun

Co-Main: Bisping vs Marquardt

Undercard: Florian vs Sotiropoulos, Jones vs Lil Nog, Cro Cop vs Schaub, Hardy vs Fitch

 

It's ambitious, but they know they can sell out the UK and OZ with 'weaker' cards for a seven-figure gate...add three good gates to a big PPV buyrate for the 'supercard' (I know my examples aren't exactly a supercard) and hey-presto LOADS-A-MONEY!

[brashleyholland]

Mark Hunt fighting at UFC 119!???!?!?!!!????

 

Say Whaaaaaat? :-p

 

Oh, and Rodrigo Nogueira vs Frank Mir in the main event....possibly.

[TheKenwyne]

Mark Hunt fighting at UFC 119!???!?!?!!!????

 

Say Whaaaaaat? :-p

 

Oh, and Rodrigo Nogueira vs Frank Mir in the main event....possibly.

 

Really. Saw it on BE and thought, nah, can't be right. But, yes, apparently 5-6 past-his-prime Mark Hunt is UFC worthy.

[Daffanka]

Mark Hunt fighting at UFC 119!???!?!?!!!????

 

Say Whaaaaaat? :-p

 

Oh, and Rodrigo Nogueira vs Frank Mir in the main event....possibly.

 

The only reason I can think of them bringing in Hunt is if Dana has a personal interest in seeing how close Carwin's power is to Manhoef's. Is it confirmed?

 

Mir - Nog 2 should be interesting. First fight was uh... controversial, they're both coming off pretty devastating KO losses and I'm pretty interested to see how they'll perform. Especially Mir, he hasn't looked good at all with all that extra weight.

 

Allegedly Bader - lil' Nog and Sherk - Dunham are also happening, both good fights. If Bader doesn't win the first round and then gas like he usually does he'll take a decision. Dunham gonna style all over Sherk.

 

Still hoping Lesnar - Velasquez happens at 119.

[brashleyholland]

The only reason I can think of them bringing in Hunt is if Dana has a personal interest in seeing how close Carwin's power is to Manhoef's. Is it confirmed?

 

Not by the UFC, but yes. He's fighting Sean McCorkle...flabby, sloppy ground 'n' pound fighter. He's undefeated, but he lacks killer instinct and is very slow.

 

Mir - Nog 2 should be interesting. First fight was uh... controversial, they're both coming off pretty devastating KO losses and I'm pretty interested to see how they'll perform. Especially Mir, he hasn't looked good at all with all that extra weight.

 

They've both looked a bit rubbish for various reasons. If Mir loses, he's out of the HW division. If Nog loses, he could be out of the UFC. Will be interesting to see what kind of weight Mir comes in at for this one.

 

Allegedly Bader - lil' Nog and Sherk - Dunham are also happening, both good fights. If Bader doesn't win the first round and then gas like he usually does he'll take a decision. Dunham gonna style all over Sherk.

 

Both a done deal. If the Nog that fought Jason Brilz shows up he'll be in trouble, for the first couple of rounds at least.

 

Dunham vs Sherk will give us a really good indication of where the kid is at compared to top-level fighters...is Sherk (coming off his injuries) a top teir fighter though?

 

Still hoping Lesnar - Velasquez happens at 119.

 

November, or a week after UFC 120 in October at the earliest.

[Daffanka]

http://news.fightmagazine.com/chael-sonnen-sounds-off-in-open-letter-to-fans-6058/

 

With the biggest fight of his life less than four weeks away and a legion of fans and fighters awaiting his supposed demise, Chael Sonnen has found a measure of solace alone in the spotlight.

 

On August 7, Sonnen will face Anderson Silva for the middleweight title at UFC 117. Until then, he is insistent on remaining one of the most polarizing figures in MMA. He entertained the crowd with stand-up comedy before UFC 115, but also angered Silva fans with his comic-book bravado. His negativity towards Silva, considered by many to be the top pound-for-pound fighters in the world, has also drawn him into a war of words with Silva’s manager, Ed Soares, and teammate Antonio Rogerio Nogueira. In June, Sonnen quietly pulled out of the Oregon congressional race while loudly engaging in an interview fiasco – for lack of a better term – with a MMA journalist.

 

Heavily repudiated but never duplicated, Sonnen turned up the heat in an open letter to his “fans” on Wednesday:

 

“Hi, everybody! Remember me? Your ol’ buddy Chael? Y’know I spend most of my time fightin’, which doesn’t leave much time for writin’, but things being what they are, I’ve decided to take a moment or two, and fire up the ol’ Olivetti typewriter, put in a fresh ribbon, and share some of my recent thoughts with you….

 

Firstly, I’ve gotten a significant amount of feedback regarding my “correspondence” with MMA…..”Journalist” Jon Lane…So….To any and all members of the media: I’m always happy to talk and share my time and ideas with you. And I appreciate your efforts in contacting me, and instead of ‘circling the wagons’ around a “fellow journalist”, for applauding my efforts to….FIX things. Do me a favor, guys. Don’t be so hard on JonJon. He’ll get it. Bring him along, help him out here & there. I kinda like him. And Jon…..No hard feelings. Really. If you re-read our correspondence in the cold, hard, light of day, you’ll see I was trying to….HELP you.

 

I never expected you to be Umberto Eco; but those questions… guy! I mean COME ON. So buck up, little soldier. If you fall off, just get right back on – even if it’s only a keyboard you’re getting on.

 

And Lil’ Nog…..I read your appraisal of the upcoming fight betwixt your pal Anderson and yours truly and, I’ll be damned, you are one sharp dude…. about as sharp as a bag of wet mice.

 

Do yourself a favor: have your mouthpiece permanently installed in your mouth so you can’t speak at all. Have them feed you with a tube like a coma patient. You’re not doing Anderson any good and you’re sinking your own ship too. You say I’m not qualified to fight Anderson…Which means that the UFC brain trust – that thinks I AM and are also YOUR BOSSES — are idiots. It also means Ed Soares – Anderson’s manager and YOUR MANAGER TOO – doesn’t know what he’s doing, either. Smooth, guy. Very smooth. Do you have any other brilliant ideas or scathing critiques you care to impart to the UFC Brass or your own manager? Maybe that shot Sokodjou hit you with was worse than it looked (if that’s even possible).

 

You seem like a nice enough guy, and I have no real beef with you (Oh, and speaking of beef: If you can turn your disk over at the Rodizio once in awhile and get down to “185,” there’s gonna be a new sheriff there in less than a month who’ll be happy to ride you right back out of town on a rail). So please see this as the kind of well-intentioned advice I would give to a friend or training partner. And if you lose a few (you looked like Roy Nelson in a Frankenstein mask for that Brilz fight… which you lost, buddyboy), we can scrap in the Fall.

 

And Ed, I saw your recent comments. Not bad work. Hats off. You come across as professional and accountable in every respect…which makes your inability to control, explain or denounce Anderson’s behavior quite puzzling to me. THAT’S one of the main reasons we are where we are with all this: because you can’t make him fight.

 

You can’t explain why he does what he does and you refuse to give a consistent, rational explanation for it. It’s like you keep trying to sell the kids faulty fireworks that turn around after 10 feet and come screaming back and hit them in the eye or blow their hands off.

 

Are you aware that you represent the generally acknowledged best fighter in the world in the premier promotion on planet Earth and that the president of that company has promised to FIRE HIM for his behavior?

 

Aren’t you just a little embarrassed by that?

 

And that’s got NOTHING to do with me, or even this fight.

 

Imagine: Your team is on the two-yard line in the fourth quarter of the Super Bowl, but your star quarterback disregards the head coach’s instructions and calls a play where he throws the ball to a popcorn vendor in the sixth row, then eats a piece of turf and craps in his helmet on the 50-yard line.

 

Do you know who he’s REALLY mad at? NOT the fans or the opposing team…he’s mad at daddy; he’s mad at the coach!

 

WHY?

 

What causes that encoded hostility?

 

Is your fighter insane? If he is – and you therefore cannot reasonably predict his behavior – isn’t it incumbent upon YOU to find a way to fix it?

 

Don’t you owe that to the sport?

 

To the fans?

 

To his boss, Dana White?

 

And lastly… don’t you owe a debt to HIM and his long-term psychological well-being? Shouldn’t you get him the help he needs, before one of his irrational, unexplainable acts causes himself or someone else genuine harm? If he’s irrational and uncontrollable, put him in a psych ward. If he’s fine, prove it by giving a legitimate, rational, explanation for his actions in Abu Dhabi. I’m the one who has to fight him.

What’s going on, exactly?

 

…OK kids…….Chael has to go get all sweaty again.”

 

Hahahaha

 

Also those of you who didn't watch kickboxing when Hunt was doing his thing might not know why he rules.

 

http://i41.tinypic.com/2b2xaa.gif

 

http://i26.tinypic.com/2hp7fw3.jpg

 

http://i29.tinypic.com/4q60w4.gif

 

I wanted to find some .gifs from his fights with LeBanner but I guess not. It's probably hopeless but if he's in shape and his chin isn't too far gone he might actually make a splash.

[Dustin]

I like Mark Hunt but these signings are getting ridiculous. Did the UFC just sign a TV deal in New Zealand that they need him for or something?

[d_w_w]

Keep hearing that the UFC owed Hunt fights from the Pride takeover:

 

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/mma/post/2010/07/mark-hunt-plans-for-ufc-debut-in-september/1

[d_w_w]

Not by the UFC, but yes. He's fighting Sean McCorkle...flabby, sloppy ground 'n' pound fighter. He's undefeated, but he lacks killer instinct and is very slow.

 

Now now, I'd call McCorkle's recent opponents flabby, not him. For his size and body shape (he's broad and tall... like 6'6 or so?) , he's in decent (albeit, I wouldn't say "good" or "great" shape). Don't think he's ever been at 265 though, so this will be a serious weight cut for him.

 

If he does it well, I wouldn't be surprised to see him beat Hunt with ground control and ground and pound. If he does the weight cut poorly, Hunt'll knock his socks off.

 

That's if he can even make the weight. Actually, no idea if Hunt can make that weight these days?

[Daffanka]

Posting from the future where Aoki is already dead.

[brashleyholland]

 

 

 

November, or a week after UFC 120 in October at the earliest.

 

Dana has confirmed that Cain vs Brock will headline UFC 121 in October, a week after UFC 120

[brashleyholland]

Posting from the future where Aoki is already dead.

 

Damn, I thought he was going to get his foot ripped off!

[Daffanka]

GOD DAMN IT

[RingofHonorGuard]

GOD DAMN IT

 

Shinya Aoki called, he told me to let you know he'll be auctioning Kawajiri's detached foot on ebay.

 

-Clearly this is a setback for Crusher, and I don't really take anything away from this except: A) Shinya Aoki has some retarded grappling skills but likely will never be a super relevant fighter due to his small frame and lack of striking and B) Kawajiri needs to get into a good mental camp at this point, because his skills are peaked... just needs someone with some intelligence to guide the skill.

 

-Commentary last night was some of the worst I've ever heard. It's proof to what I've always said, eventually a "know-it-all" in the commentator booth will antagonize fans. And that's exactly what happened. Say what you want about Mike Goldberg at this point, but I'll take him over Professor Shiavello any day now.

 

-Mousasi choked out a fat wrestler that most likely was gassed by the time he got off the airplane. Still, 31 seconds into the fight.... Is this tournament the biggest joke in MMA tournament history? Mizuno's win was absolutely hilarious. Manhoef is done, and I'm most likely finished watching him compete against someone with even AVERAGE well-rounded skills. Dude is stubborn, he's obviously approaching the end or is out of his prime, and he's not working on his ground game... So stop booking him. I'd rather see a boring 15 minute grappling match than see a guy with no skills and some striking power getting to fight. In my opinion this just makes UFC signing Mark Hunt even more retarded. 0-5 in his last 5 fights with a KO loss to a middleweight. Good job Dana.

 

-My biggest bowl of disappointment tonight had to be Karl Amoussou losing =/ Was really hoping for the second-coming of a Wanderlei Silvaesque fighter. That's what he's been touted as, but it's just not there.