The Official MMA Discussion Thread

[LoNdOn]

Can someone explain to me how in the hell Leonard Garcia beat Nam Phan? What a joke of a decision and it further proves that Garcia is the luckiest man in MMA.

[The Shape]

Can someone explain to me how in the hell Leonard Garcia beat Nam Phan? What a joke of a decision and it further proves that Garcia is the luckiest man in MMA.

 

Not lucky, just his ridiculous haymakers-that-miss-heavy style is something the judges get off on. Probably deemed it "octagon control."

[LoNdOn]

Not lucky, just his ridiculous haymakers-that-miss-heavy style is something the judges get off on. Probably deemed it "octagon control."

 

I may throw my hat into the MMA ring/cage if that is the case. I'll just run around, flailing my arms like a kamikaze windmill and that should get me through.

 

Don't know about everyone else, but I scored it 30-27 to Phan.

[Daffanka]

Don't know about everyone else, but I scored it 30-27 to Phan.

 

30-26. Second round was 10-8 Phan.

 

Also I rewatched Hendo - Babalu and I have no idea what Babalu was trying to do. It looked like he got clipped by a left and swarmed on so he shot a lazy single and tried to set up a leglock or pull half guard. Problem is that he's not Shinya Aoki and had no control over Hendo's body so he just turned his head into a bullseye.

[ampulator]

I may throw my hat into the MMA ring/cage if that is the case. I'll just run around, flailing my arms like a kamikaze windmill and that should get me through.

 

Don't know about everyone else, but I scored it 30-27 to Phan.

 

That's it. I think the word "effective" needs to be added in "effective aggression" and "effectgive octagon control" to keep this crap from happening.

[brashleyholland]

That's it. I think the word "effective" needs to be added in "effective aggression" and "effectgive octagon control" to keep this crap from happening.

 

It already is, that's the scary thing - everything, striking, grappling, aggression and Octagon control is measured in terms of how 'effective' it is. Fights are also scored proportionately as to where they take place, so in that fight (which was 99% contested on the feet) Garcia's takedown wouldn't (or shouldn't) have counted for anything much at all.

 

Those judges were just horrible.

 

Interesting note from Keith Kizer, the head of the Nevada commission that Rogan called out on air.

 

They always say that ‘the UFC has nothing to do with judging.' Well guess what, they've got a big fight coming up in Canada called Koscheck vs. Georges St. Pierre - the UFC and Marc Ratner are flying Tony Weeks up there as a judge. C'mon, Joe. How about some honesty?

 

Don't really know what to make of that if it's true, other than that I'm sure this was all arranged before last Saturday's shenanigans, and it would be a political taboo to drop him at short notice.

 

Also in news that I'm sure has Daffanka as excited as me, KAWAJIRI VS THOMSON ON NYE!!!!!

[TheKenwyne]

Also in news that I'm sure has Daffanka as excited as me, KAWAJIRI VS THOMSON ON NYE!!!!!

 

YUS! Good few weeks in Japan, K1 WGP finals this weekend featuring the Reem and then two whole New Years Eve events. I can hardly wait

[Daffanka]

Thomson will be ground into a fine paste and sold on the black market to help FEG with its money problems. There's very few lightweights outside the UFC that can give Kawajiri problems and Thomson isn't one of them.

 

Sakuraba vs. Zaromskis is also confirmed for Dynamite!! (for the prestigious DREAM welterweight title haha.)

 

I like Zaromskis and I think he'll beat Sakuraba bad but if he loses this fight his career is probably unsalvageable. Like Sokoudjou after losing to Minowa.

[Tag01]

Thomson will be ground into a fine paste and sold on the black market to help FEG with its money problems. There's very few lightweights outside the UFC that can give Kawajiri problems and Thomson isn't one of them.

 

Sakuraba vs. Zaromskis is also confirmed for Dynamite!! (for the prestigious DREAM welterweight title haha.)

 

I like Zaromskis and I think he'll beat Sakuraba bad but if he loses this fight his career is probably unsalvageable. Like Sokoudjou after losing to Minowa.

 

I dunno. Kawajiri has choked in some of his big fights, and Thomson is for real. I'm not sure who I've got in this one yet, but Thomson is much better standing, and his wrestling is probably as good as anyone Kawajiri has faced. I love this fight though.

 

I agree on Zaromskis, but Sakuraba is a lot more well rounded. I think Zaromskis will win on youth/speed alone, but Zaromskis better hope he can finish Sakuraba. Fighting a Japanese legend for a title on NYE in Japan will not likely lead to friendly scoring for the foreigner.

 

I really hope both NYE shows succeed. I love the UFC, but more big stage MMA is always better than less, and I love the 4 hour HD net broacasts to watch on Sunday morning.

[Daffanka]

I dunno. Kawajiri has choked in some of his big fights, and Thomson is for real. I'm not sure who I've got in this one yet, but Thomson is much better standing, and his wrestling is probably as good as anyone Kawajiri has faced. I love this fight though.

 

Crusher's my all time favorite MMA fighter so I'm not even going to start getting into a debate about his chances to win (they're 100% against everyone.)

 

Also from the Wrestling Observer:

 

Saturday night UFC rating

 

1.4 for the TUF finale

 

The Strikeforce show did a 1.2, although given the different sized univeses, that's 2 million viewers to 341,000

 

Boy, Strikeforce sure took it to the UFC.

[Tag01]

Crusher's my all time favorite MMA fighter so I'm not even going to start getting into a debate about his chances to win (they're 100% against everyone.)

 

I can't argue with that. Go Crusher! I was honestly bummed out Aoki caught him, until that point I really thought with his size and wrestling base Crusher would be the Japanese fighter that would be able to break away from the pack and compete with the giant wrestlers in the American scene. I still really enjoy watching him fight, but that Aoki fight is still such a shame since had he won I think his career trajectory would have been huge.

 

Boy, Strikeforce sure took it to the UFC.

 

No kidding. In ratings, and in pure quality. Granted, this was a throw away show for the UFC and one of Strikeforce's most stacked cards both in name fighters and KO artists, but still I found the strikeforce show miles better than the UFC (and I hate the Strikeforce commentary team, a lot.)

[Daffanka]

I can't argue with that. Go Crusher! I was honestly bummed out Aoki caught him, until that point I really thought with his size and wrestling base Crusher would be the Japanese fighter that would be able to break away from the pack and compete with the giant wrestlers in the American scene. I still really enjoy watching him fight, but that Aoki fight is still such a shame since had he won I think his career trajectory would have been huge.

 

Kawajiri in Strikeforce. Maybe somewhere further down the line Kawajiri with elbows. Argh!

 

Realistically he wouldn't crack the elite due to his unfortunate tendencies to wing punches when he gets hit but it would've been fun while it lasted. Probably would've gotten revenge for the Melendez robbery too.

 

No kidding. In ratings, and in pure quality. Granted, this was a throw away show for the UFC and one of Strikeforce's most stacked cards both in name fighters and KO artists, but still I found the strikeforce show miles better than the UFC (and I hate the Strikeforce commentary team, a lot.)

 

The Strikeforce show is the one that did 341k while UFC did 2 million. A star stacked show with loads of exciting knockouts couldn't outdraw a card headlined by Bonnar and Pokrajac, even if you use the dumb Nielsen ratings and compensate for how many homes each show was in. Admittedly it had a very entertaining season of TUF behind it but the point stands.

 

I don't know about Strikeforce's financial situation but they really need to pull together if they want to stay relevant in 2011.

[Tag01]

The Strikeforce show is the one that did 341k while UFC did 2 million. A star stacked show with loads of exciting knockouts couldn't outdraw a card headlined by Bonnar and Pokrajac, even if you use the dumb Nielsen ratings and compensate for how many homes each show was in. Admittedly it had a very entertaining season of TUF behind it but the point stands.

 

I don't know about Strikeforce's financial situation but they really need to pull together if they want to stay relevant in 2011.

 

Woops, I meant not in ratings but in quality. I think Strikeforce will be ok, but they'll never get close to UFC.

[jesterx7769]

Well no one knew it would be stacked with loads of exciting KO's before hand, but hopefully this will help them on their next card.

 

Their Showtime deal is awful IMO, I would have watched but I don't get Showtime! Way to try to build pop/rep by having your shows on a premium network. I know they are negotiating with a main network again but not every show has to be on primetime CBS either, just go the Bellator route with a low basic cable channel that lots of house holds have. Having big names doesn't matter if people don't even have the channel to watch.

 

The TUF card wasn't a very good one either though, even for an TUF show. As was previously discussed Bonnar is somewhat mainstream popular (they had him MMA Live on ESPN since he guest hosts which helps) but its clear he is not in title contention which makes it hard to tune in for him especially when his opponent is unkown. Then Maia is a former title contender but with zero charisma or mainstream popularity, which I guess Grove may have a little but he goes back to not being an immediate contender.

 

Strikeforce is jacked up, plain and simple. People hate Dana and his negative comments on other promotions but he is right about Strikeforce. 2010 has been a very dissapointing year for them. 2009 was a coming out and everyone thought okay now lets see what they can do. But just look...

 

- Fedor losses in quick fashion...then doesn't fight again this year

- The man who beat him is a foregin non U.S. popular UFC dump off (compared to if Brett Rogers won)...who hasn't fought again this year..

- Hendo loses to Shields...

- Then Shields leaves...

- The post fight brawl which many believe and have posted some evidence it was somewhat rigged hasn't boosted pop like they may have hoped and is still more of a black eye

- Haven't returend to main network since, only one main network show when they anticipated atleast 3/4

- Walker just had to pull out, one of their main draws

- Signed Arlovski...who lost (again)

- HW Champ once again barely competed only fighting once

- The WW tournament that was supposed to be big was a major flop

- Signed Barnett...who hasn't fought and his CSAC thing is still jumbled

- Their charismatic and growing mainstream popular LHW champ King Mo loses

- No Diaz vs. Mayhem, which would have been a huge draw

- No return of Carano

- Only one fight for Melendez and no rumored Aoki rematch

 

Props for them for staying around but they really are nothing more than their Strikeforce Challengers series right now and business/promotion wise have been awful.

[The Shape]

So looks like Sonnen vs. Wand is coming soon based on twitter etc, and surely the most natural fit for the next TUF coaching slots.

[brashleyholland]

 

Their Showtime deal is awful IMO, I would have watched but I don't get Showtime! Way to try to build pop/rep by having your shows on a premium network. I know they are negotiating with a main network again but not every show has to be on primetime CBS either, just go the Bellator route with a low basic cable channel that lots of house holds have. Having big names doesn't matter if people don't even have the channel to watch.

 

 

The problem is that without the Showtime deal, they're nothing.

 

Showtime pay around $1,000,000 per show to Strikeforce at the moment. That's the only way they can afford to cover the contracts of guys like Diaz, Fedor, Hendo...basically anyone with any value. Take the Showtime deal away, and every Strikeforce will look like the Challengers series.

 

People overstate the importance of the Miller/Scrap Pack brawl in them not being on CBS. The truth is that the rating for MMA on CBS without Kimbo, Fedor or Gina Carano weren't good enough. If Alistair Overeem had walked into the cage after the Fedor/Rogers fight (which had somewhere shy of 6 million viewers) and started a scuffle, it'd be a none issue and they'd have been back on CBS as planned.

 

Point being, a small network deal like the Bellator/FX one would not be able to sustain the kind of events Strikeforce are putting on. They don't have the bargaining power of the UFC in terms of getting a big network deal, because in relative terms, nobody knows who they are.

[brashleyholland]

So looks like Sonnen vs. Wand is coming soon based on twitter etc, and surely the most natural fit for the next TUF coaching slots.

 

I heard three rumours with regards to the TUF coaching positions for the next series. In the long run, this is by far the best.

[Daffanka]

Sandro - Hioki is confirmed for SOUL OF FIGHT (also Misaki is fighting a can he'll guillotine in two minutes.)

 

This is the best and most relevant fight Sengoku has ever put on and I'm terribly excited for it.

[Tag01]

The problem is that without the Showtime deal, they're nothing.

 

Showtime pay around $1,000,000 per show to Strikeforce at the moment. That's the only way they can afford to cover the contracts of guys like Diaz, Fedor, Hendo...basically anyone with any value. Take the Showtime deal away, and every Strikeforce will look like the Challengers series.

 

People overstate the importance of the Miller/Scrap Pack brawl in them not being on CBS. The truth is that the rating for MMA on CBS without Kimbo, Fedor or Gina Carano weren't good enough. If Alistair Overeem had walked into the cage after the Fedor/Rogers fight (which had somewhere shy of 6 million viewers) and started a scuffle, it'd be a none issue and they'd have been back on CBS as planned.

 

Point being, a small network deal like the Bellator/FX one would not be able to sustain the kind of events Strikeforce are putting on. They don't have the bargaining power of the UFC in terms of getting a big network deal, because in relative terms, nobody knows who they are.

 

This. Showtime is a great gig. It's the income generator; the key for strikeforce to reach the mainstream is CBS. But that's not looking good. Either way, it wasn't that long UFC was negotiating with Showtime or HBO, it's a good starting place for combat sports.

[Tag01]

Sandro - Hioki is confirmed for SOUL OF FIGHT (also Misaki is fighting a can he'll guillotine in two minutes.)

 

This is the best and most relevant fight Sengoku has ever put on and I'm terribly excited for it.

 

Dude, that's so awesome. I think Sandro will paste him, but this is going to be fun to watch.

 

Edit: Is there any word on who Maxi fights? He is quickly becoming my favorite prospect; with that KO power and his wrestling base I think he goes far.

[The Shape]

I heard three rumours with regards to the TUF coaching positions for the next series. In the long run, this is by far the best.

 

And what were the others? xD I know Wand and Leben was discussed after Leben beat Akiyama, I love Leben and would really enjoy that fight and that buildup...but Sonnen on the show would be an absolute must-see. And Wand can fight Leben anyway. If Wand wins, not sure where it leaves him but a big deal no doubt.

[Tag01]

And what were the others? xD I know Wand and Leben was discussed after Leben beat Akiyama, I love Leben and would really enjoy that fight and that buildup...but Sonnen on the show would be an absolute must-see. And Wand can fight Leben anyway. If Wand wins, not sure where it leaves him but a big deal no doubt.

 

Wand and Sonnen for the next season sounds perfect to me. Great fight, too. I hope that the following season would be bantamweights headlined by Faber vs. Cruz or Faber vs. Torres.

[jesterx7769]

The problem is that without the Showtime deal, they're nothing.

 

Showtime pay around $1,000,000 per show to Strikeforce at the moment. That's the only way they can afford to cover the contracts of guys like Diaz, Fedor, Hendo...basically anyone with any value.

 

in relative terms, nobody knows who they are.

 

Doesn't this explain their problem though and how their business plan makes no sense? I knew that Showtime gave them money and while it is not "you" that is wrong, its them.

 

This and they basically say they exist because of Showtime, it allows them to pay "big names" (that aren't that big) for no one to see. How is that a competent business plan? To me its a big slap in the face that our business model is awful and since we cannot afford these big names maybe we shouldn't have them and should actually try building up a promotion. Paying Hendo lots of money makes no sense if 300,000 people watch while 2 million watch TUF finale.

 

If they can't pay the big guys too bad, don't sign them, thats any survival of the fittest or business plan. Instead of having guys like Hendo/Fedor/Nick that ask for alot of money stick to your cross promotion and own guys like King Mo, Rogers, JC, Mayhem, Shields (instead of throwing him under the bus) while building up some of new guys.

 

That's why I love Bellator. They seem to actually have a building block plan. Do they draw millions upon millions and swim in cash? No. But maybe one day they will and they understand that.

[Tag01]

Doesn't this explain their problem though and how their business plan makes no sense? I knew that Showtime gave them money and while it is not "you" that is wrong, its them.

 

This and they basically say they exist because of Showtime, it allows them to pay "big names" (that aren't that big) for no one to see. How is that a competent business plan? To me its a big slap in the face that our business model is awful and since we cannot afford these big names maybe we shouldn't have them and should actually try building up a promotion. Paying Hendo lots of money makes no sense if 300,000 people watch while 2 million watch TUF finale.

 

If they can't pay the big guys too bad, don't sign them, thats any survival of the fittest or business plan. Instead of having guys like Hendo/Fedor/Nick that ask for alot of money stick to your cross promotion and own guys like King Mo, Rogers, JC, Mayhem, Shields (instead of throwing him under the bus) while building up some of new guys.

 

That's why I love Bellator. They seem to actually have a building block plan. Do they draw millions upon millions and swim in cash? No. But maybe one day they will and they understand that.

 

I love Bellator too, but they're bleeding money, likely more than Strikeforce at this point. Strikeforce may not last as the world's number 2 promotion, but I doubt they fold. They've been one of only a handful of MMA promotions to stay viable and run in the black for an extended period. Coker has his faults and makes for a crappy face of the company, but he's a sharp businessman that has succeeded where many have failed. If I had to guess, I'd say Strikeforce will still be in business well after Bellator is gone. Here's hoping they both make it, though.

[Tag01]

http://mmajunkie.com/news/21674/featherweight-standout-norifumi-kid-yamamoto-in-ufc-contract-negotiations.mma

 

Kid to UFC? Awesome.