The Official MMA Discussion Thread

[Save_Us.Necro]

Huge stuff. I mean I'm not surprised UFC isn't absorbing SF off the bat (although I see it eventually happening), but it's a smart move as they prepare to make a worldwide push. It's going to be interesting definetly for a few guys (Fedor, Daley, Hendo, Barnett and a few others). Does a guy like Barnett or Shamrock opt to bail cause of this deal? We shall see. At the same time, does a guy like Overeem or Diaz ask for a release so they can move over to the UFC? I do fully expect a few SF guys to almost immediately opt to go to the UFC and vice versa.

 

But amazing stuff.

[pate]

Wow

[Synticha]

I hope that Strikeforce will act as a minor league for the rising stars!

[Daffanka]

One step closer to Tatsuya Kawajiri, UFC champion.

[CoutureLegend]

Huge stuff. I mean I'm not surprised UFC isn't absorbing SF off the bat (although I see it eventually happening), but it's a smart move as they prepare to make a worldwide push. It's going to be interesting definetly for a few guys (Fedor, Daley, Hendo, Barnett and a few others). Does a guy like Barnett or Shamrock opt to bail cause of this deal? We shall see. At the same time, does a guy like Overeem or Diaz ask for a release so they can move over to the UFC? I do fully expect a few SF guys to almost immediately opt to go to the UFC and vice versa.

 

But amazing stuff.

 

Why would Diaz ask for a release when he just signed a new contract with Strikeforce? He could've left to go to the UFC then but he chose not too.

 

Josh Gross has said that the promotions will stay seperate only because Strikeforce still have a contract with Showtime. Once it's up, they will prob merge.

[Zoloftjunkie]

http://www.411mania.com/MMA/news/177887/Paul-Daley-Not-Sure-He-Will-Fight-Nick-Diaz-Due-To-Zuffa-Buying-Strikeforce.htm

 

Daley needs to grow up. It amazes me how dumb one person can really be.

[weidt]

In one sentence White says the companies will remain separate, yet in the next he says they bought Strikeforce due to a worldwide push to promote and expand the UFC. This seems to me to mean they will be moving fighters from Strikeforce to the UFC, though he spoke to the contrary when asked it, as I don't see how buying Strikeforce would otherwise help expand the UFC worldwide if its fighters and all remain separate.

 

In any case, I envision Strikeforce either operating as a minor league, and as a place for Zuffa to make money off fighters they won't or can't sign to the UFC (Barnett, Fedor, Henderson, Daley), perhaps in the future, like WEC, they will eventually dissolve Strikeforce into the UFC.

[Gabbo]

The contract with Showtime lasts for two years as he said. They'll see that contract out and then probably merge the two, in the mean time giving people like Daley, Barnett, Fedor, Shamrock and whatnot the chance to run down their SF contracts.

[Blackman]

I hope that Strikeforce will act as a minor league for the rising stars!

 

That's how I'd use it.

 

How would Cyborg (the female version) fair and Coenen fair? White wasn't a big fan of women's MMA. I hope they don't destroy it, but I guess they can also just move to other promotions.

[CoutureLegend]

The contract with Showtime lasts for two years as he said. They'll see that contract out and then probably merge the two, in the mean time giving people like Daley, Barnett, Fedor, Shamrock and whatnot the chance to run down their SF contracts.

 

The Shamrock / Diaz card was the first event in Strikeforce's 3 year deal with Showtime & that was in April 2009 so i reckon there deal has little over a year left.

[brashleyholland]

In one sentence White says the companies will remain separate, yet in the next he says they bought Strikeforce due to a worldwide push to promote and expand the UFC. This seems to me to mean they will be moving fighters from Strikeforce to the UFC, though he spoke to the contrary when asked it, as I don't see how buying Strikeforce would otherwise help expand the UFC worldwide if its fighters and all remain separate.

 

 

Basically what will happen is that whenever a fighter's contract runs out (and most, if not all of the 'big money' contracts are between the fighters and Showtime, not Strikeforce) then Dana can (and will) negotiate to bring them to the UFC. So Hendo for example, his contract has one more fight on it. After that, it's open season; he can listen to offers from UStrikeForCe, Showtime, Bellator, whoever.

 

The assumption is obviously that the only people with the money to sign him will be UStrikeForCe...

 

...but there is obviously a lot more to this than meets the eye. Why would the Zuffa, a (alleged) billion dollar company buy a rival brand with a turnover reported be me mere millions? That makes no financial sense. They can't get any of the guys who are contracted to appear on Showtime any sooner than they would if they had just waited for their contracts to come up and taken a seat at the negotiating table. Sure, they might not be able to get the current champions due to champion's clauses...but if there's one thing we know it's that the UFC are bigger than ANY individual fighter, especially anyone that Strikeforce has.

 

If they need more fighters, they can sign more fighters. They don't need Strikeforce for that. If they want a 'minor league' then why close down the WEC? Or why not use the IFL, WFA (which was included in their recent video game) or even Pride FC (which they have promoted with their 'Best of' series?

 

One interesting school of thought I've heard is that Strikeforce were in the process of (or about to be) receiving an offer from Gary Shaw's ProElite. Makes sense.

[ampulator]

Brashley Holland, what's your take on Paul Daley lashing out at Dana White? Why would even do something like that?

[jesterx7769]

Using SF as a minor league for rising talent makes no sense and I don't see them doing it. The UFC is synonomous with MMA right now, if they want to have a "minor league" they can just create a UFC show or run more shows i.e. UFC Challengers, like SF did. Especially now that you KNOW its a minor league, why use the SF name for that event when the UFC name is so much stronger?

 

The fighter thing as BH said is also kind of fishy. Lots of people immediatley were talking about fighters going to the UFC but it isn't that simple with most of the people you would want to see since as BH Showtime pays for them which is what kept SF alive.

 

The TV contracts are something I think they were interested in. White has talked before about HBO/Showtime negotiations so maybe this is there way to start negotiations again and maybe be on CBS. However this doesn't really make perfect sense since UFC has the ESPN deal who is with ABC so if they wanted to go that route they could.

 

The ProElite stuff made a little more sense as BH said. Reason being lets say one year ago (unlikely but its just an example) the UFC was looking into buying SF but passed, then all of a sudden someone else is "close" to buying them, that could have forced the UFC to just be like "lets do it and get it over with"

 

What I do could be interesting is if "banned" fighters or fighters with troubled past get a second chance, whether its a fair one or not. What I mean is, even though Daley was "banned" if White said, "hey get up in front of the microphone and admit you were wrong and apologize we will accept you back" now they may or may not do that (especially when guys like him speak out against Zuffa/White) but I think it would be interesting if they did. Afterall White has had many fighter feuds over the years which seem to get worked out.

 

I think they will wait to disband SF but will eventually do it. I read the Showtime contract with SF lasts two more years. So I think UFC may just wait it out then disband so they dont look totally like d*cks the way the WWE did. I think the most important thing right now for the UFC looking good out of this is to make sure the HW tournament finishes since if you crush it before its done people will now blame you.

 

All in all it seems pretty complicated right now since the only thing to go off of is White's interview and since they can't completley absorb all the fighters either like WEC.

[brashleyholland]

Brashley Holland, what's your take on Paul Daley lashing out at Dana White? Why would even do something like that?

 

It's one of the curses of modern social media. Ten, even five years ago, this statement would never have been seen outside of Daley's inner circle. But now Daley has a facebook, a twitter, an account on the UG...all of which he has control of.

 

We're all idiots sometimes and we all say things without thinking sometimes. In this modern age though, these things get said on twitter or facebook, where they're only a couple of clicks away from the rest of the world seeing them.

 

From what I've heard, Dana was still adamant that he wouldn't fight in the UFC again before this outburst, so I'd imagine his chances are less than zero now. If he pulls out of the Diaz fight then he's an even bigger idiot.

[Fantabulous]

Someone needs to write a handbook for fighters, and wrestlers, about the smart way to use Facebook, Twitter and other social media outlets. It's like the majority of them have no clue how they came across or what damage they can do to their own careers.

[brashleyholland]

Someone needs to write a handbook for fighters, and wrestlers, about the smart way to use Facebook, Twitter and other social media outlets. It's like the majority of them have no clue how they came across or what damage they can do to their own careers.

 

CHAPTER 1: LET YOUR MANAGER DO IT!

 

Fin

[Fantabulous]

Are Daley's comments more stupid than Josh Barnett offering to piss in Dana White's mouth to prove he's clean?

[ampulator]

Are Daley's comments more stupid than Josh Barnett offering to piss in Dana White's mouth to prove he's clean?

That's true, but that was before Zuffa bought Strikeforce. I doubt Barnett would have said something like that AFTER that happened. Barnett's a smart guy - he probably on said what he said because he thought he would have no problems over it.

 

Oops.

 

But Daley's sudden comment is more... well, irrational. He found out Zuffa bought Strikeforce, and the first he thought to do was to comment that he shouldn't fight.

[Tag01]

I think for as strong as the UFC is they'd rather nip competition in the bud when possible. Sure, the UFC could always sign these guys when their contracts are up, but Diaz and Lawler both just recently re-upped with Strikeforce despite the option to go with the UFC. Now it's a certainty these guys move over (eventually). I've read that while UFC wasn't threatened by Strikeforce, their interest piqued when Coker starting talking about running PPV. I think they figured it would be easier to buy them off now before they got any bigger.

 

This was probably their best chance to buy Strikeforce going forward since Coker couldn't put the money together to buy out his Hockey partners yet. A few more months and Coker might have found worked something out with ProElite or somebody else, gotten the nervous Hockey folks out of the picture, and been in it for the long haul. This is a pretty shrewd long term play in my opinion.

[Fantabulous]

Let's get this back on the first page with a bunch of new fights coming up:

 

UFC Fight Night 24:

Amir Sadollah vs DaMarques Johnson

 

UFC 130:

Demetrious Johnson vs Renan Barao

Kid Yamamoto vs Chris Cariaso

 

TUF 13 Finale:

Matt Brown vs Rich Attonito

 

UFC 131:

Donald Cerrone vs Mac Danzig

 

UFC On Versus 4:

Pat Barry vs Cheick Kongo

 

UFC 132:

BJ Penn vs. Jon Fitch

Shane Roller vs Melvin Guillard

 

Also apparently in the works is Jose Aldo vs. Chad Mendes or possibly KenFlo.

[brashleyholland]

UFC Fight Night 24:

Amir Sadollah vs DaMarques Johnson

 

Meh, I was really looking forward to Sadollah vs Bang and even Sadollah vs Wilkes...it's go big or go home time for Amir with this one.

 

UFC On Versus 4:

Pat Barry vs Cheick Kongo

 

This *should* be amazing *if* my boy Kongo gets his ass to the Wolfslair more than two weeks before the fight and in shape for a change. Fingers crossed.

 

UFC 132:

BJ Penn vs. Jon Fitch

 

Meh. Not really interested. Penn doesn't want it anymore, and I don't want to see a guy who doesn't want it go out there for a payday, especially not BJ.

 

Also apparently in the works is Jose Aldo vs. Chad Mendes or possibly KenFlo.

 

Aldo has Hominick first and Kenny is fighting Diego Nunes at 131. IMO there are still guys out there who are more deserving of a shot than Kenny...maybe if he absolutely obliterates Nunes I could see it.

 

Best fight news of the week for me has to be Garcia vs The Korean Zombie 2...even though I was looking forward to the Phan/Garcia rematch, which I'm sure will still happen down the road. I doubt it'll live up to excitement of the first one, but with Garcia and Jung, you know it's money.

[Tag01]

I'm sure Garcia vs. Jung will fall flat to some because the first one was so great. I'me excited, but I really wanted Nam to get his shot at redemption. Getting pumped for the upcoming fights; Njokuani vs. Barboza is really high on my list right now. Ready to see Barao in the UFC too.

[brashleyholland]

Getting pumped for the upcoming fights; Njokuani vs. Barboza is really high on my list right now. Ready to see Barao in the UFC too.

 

Yes. YesYesYesYesYes. This fight is going to be off the hook. Definably the one I'm most looking forward to outside of the main event.

 

I've probably said this before on here, but I often suffer from fight burnout. Combat sports are my entertainment, my hobby and how I make my living...it's rare that I get genuinely excited for a fight or event. I'm really looking forward to this Saturday though, and next weekend's Fight Night.

[The Shape]

Meh. Not really interested. Penn doesn't want it anymore, and I don't want to see a guy who doesn't want it go out there for a payday, especially not BJ.

 

I don't even know how I feel about the fact that even when he doesn't want it he still went up in weight and took two rounds off the undisputed number 2 guy in the division. Heard a lot of talk of him vs. Alves which could be cool, or maybe he'll go back down in weight. But if he loses, with three rounds (or maybe even five) of the nature of the final one in their last fight, it could be the kind of thing to break his spirit beyond repair. Then again, Fitch only got him down in their last fight with what looked like a slip...but the fact remains BJ will eventually get tired, so it'd probably be a similar outcome, especially without the element of surprise on the grappling front.

 

So hyped for Bones vs. Shogun. Don't even know what to expect, for this fight as much as any other I've seen there is a huge division of opinion with both sides coming up with very good reasons why they should win. The idea of Jones confirming his status as the future face of MMA is irresistible, but the way some people are writing Shogun off is worrying. That's happening less and less now as the fight draws near though.

[ampulator]

I don't even know how I feel about the fact that even when he doesn't want it he still went up in weight and took two rounds off the undisputed number 2 guy in the division. Heard a lot of talk of him vs. Alves which could be cool, or maybe he'll go back down in weight. But if he loses, with three rounds (or maybe even five) of the nature of the final one in their last fight, it could be the kind of thing to break his spirit beyond repair. Then again, Fitch only got him down in their last fight with what looked like a slip...but the fact remains BJ will eventually get tired, so it'd probably be a similar outcome, especially without the element of surprise on the grappling front.

 

The problem is, BJ hates doing cardio. That's his single kryptonite... he can fix it, but everything else has come so easy to him, except his cardio. Unfortunately for us and him, he doesn't have naturally good cardio. That means any time he is out of fighting weight (155) he suffers. I bet if he cuts to 145, he will gas. But if he's heavier than 155, he will still gas pretty hard because that's not his fighting weight. He can fix it. There's many ways to do it. But doing cardio can be quite... tedious. But he needs to do it, because he clearly doesn't have enough. It's almsot become BJ vs. Cardio lately.

 

Here's the thing, though. Fitch has a terrible wrestling record. And he hasn't fought a lot of wrestlers. He almost got destroyed by Mike Pierce. I'm not sure Fitch's defensive wrestling is as good as his offensive wrestling is. He hasn't really face a good wrestler.

 

So hyped for Bones vs. Shogun. Don't even know what to expect, for this fight as much as any other I've seen there is a huge division of opinion with both sides coming up with very good reasons why they should win. The idea of Jones confirming his status as the future face of MMA is irresistible, but the way some people are writing Shogun off is worrying. That's happening less and less now as the fight draws near though.

 

The thing is, how injured and/or cage rusty is Shogun? If he's injured or gets injured, even if he wins, his days are numbered.