The Official MMA Discussion Thread

[brashleyholland]

<p>So as some of you might have guessed, I'm a bit of an MMA trivia nut. </p><p> </p><p>

Karlos Vemola became the answer to a trivia question last night - namely : What do Jason Reinhardt and Karlos Vemola have in common? </p><p> </p><p>

Answer: They are the only two fighters in UFC history to have three consecutive losses (not in consecutive fights) in three different weight classes in the UFC. </p><p> </p><p>

Vemola lost at HW to John Madsen, LHW to Ronny Markes and MW to Francis Carmont. </p><p> </p><p>

Reinhardt lost to Joe Lauzon, Zhang Tiequan and Edwin Figueroa at LW, FW and BW. </p><p> </p><p>

The only difference being that Vemola's losses came in the same UFC run, while Reinhardt's loss to Lauzon came in 2007. He was then cut, fought a few weeks later then took a year out before his next fight, both on small regional shows. After that he took over two years out, before inexplicably being given a second shot in the UFC, losing two on the bounce.</p>

[brashleyholland]

<p>Wanted to put this in a different post, as it's an entirely different subject matter to the trivia post above. Big of a long one, but good for the conspiracy nuts out there :-p </p><p> </p><p>

Jason Reinhardt's entire career is the blueprint to can-crushing your way to the UFC. At 16-0 he fought a debut guy. His two wins between his UFC runs were against a guy who was 2-9 (now 2-11) and a guy who was 0-0 (now 0-9!!)</p><p> </p><p>

What's interesting to me is that the debut guy he fought immediately (albeit two years) prior to his 2nd UFC run was also Pat Schilling's last opponent before his UFC debut. By the time Schilling fought him the dude was 0-8. If you look at Pat's other opponents, you'll see that baring the first, they all had similar records when they fought (as is normal with guys with just one or two fights). So here's a guy with a spotless ammy record (Sherdog lists five, but it's nearer 7-8) and a 5-0 pro record against evenly matched competition, who all of a sudden fight an 0-8 bum. Why? </p><p> </p><p>

Here's why. I was put on to Pat a couple of years ago, just after he'd turned pro. Zuffa was interested in him in 2010, as there was a lot of hype surrounding him on his local scene. Trouble was, he was only 4-0 at the time and with the WEC being folded into the UFC, that was a pretty meagre record. </p><p> </p><p>

Now, in Pat's particular case I'm speculating - but I do know for a fact that a lot of British fighter have been told by the UFC (especially at the TUF trails over the past few years) to 'pad' their records. I've been told by numerous fighters (some who have been cut from the UFC and others who have yet to fight there) that the message is "We like what you're doing, but we'd like to see a couple more wins. Oh, and if you lose in that time, it's a definite no." </p><p> </p><p>

I believe that's what happened with Pat - he was told that the UFC were sniffing, so losing was not an option. He went from six fights in 2010 to one against Mr 0-8 in 2011 before answering the UFC's call. His options were to continue taking progressively tougher fights to improve himself and risk everything, or fight bums to (essentially) guarantee wins. </p><p> </p><p>

What's interesting to me is that Pat kinda washed out in the UFC, and that's something we've seen more of in recent years. Young guys with a lot of hype not cutting it on the big stage, especially some of the guys who come through TUF. It used to be that you'd hear about guys wanting to get on big shows to get big fights so that the UFC would notice them. What I'm hearing more and more is that its now a case of playing it safe. </p><p> </p><p>

Part of me thinks that there's nothing wrong with that - it's happened to some extent in boxing for years. But boxing is different in that there's no one 'big show'. What worries me is that in the coming years guys wont be testing themselves before they get to the UFC, and they'll wash out when they get there because of the massive jump in competition. Then, in order to get back to the big show, they'll crush another couple of cans. </p><p> </p><p>

It seems to me that 'earning you way into the UFC' has changed a lot recently - what do you guys think? Are the UFC potentially hurting the development of their own stars due to this 'play it safe' culture they're fostering?</p>

[brashleyholland]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="damonster" data-cite="damonster" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I hate the fact people are saying wideman should get a shot at Anderson soon, only way I see that is if Lombard and Bisping lose. Wideman needs one more bit fight IMO.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> W-E-I-D-MAN <img alt=":)" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/smile.png.142cfa0a1cd2925c0463c1d00f499df2.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p> It's gonna be Stann for Bisping next, but if I wouldn't have minded seeing Weidman vs Bisping for a shot at the gold. </p><p> </p><p> I think they'll might go with Weidman vs Belfort next. If he gets clocked then no biggie, he got clocked by the 'legendary' Vitor Belfort. Couple of wins against the likes of Palhares, Herman, etc and he's back in the mix. If he beats Belfort, which I expect he would, then it's the 'big name' scalp he needs to be taken seriously as a title challenger.</p>

[bigtplaystew]

<p>New TUF coaches are Carwin and Big Country!</p><p> </p><p>

<a href="http://www.mmaweekly.com/shane-carwin-and-roy-nelson-selected-as-next-tuf-on-fx-coaches" rel="external nofollow">http://www.mmaweekly.com/shane-carwin-and-roy-nelson-selected-as-next-tuf-on-fx-coaches</a></p><p> </p><p> </p><p>

I think it's a great idea. Both guys are starkly different from one another which has led to the better TUF seasons IMO. I've taken a couple seasons off from TUF but I'll be DVRing this one.</p>

[brashleyholland]

Dave Batista is making is MMA debut against some guy I've never heard of at a show I don't care about.

[HansLanda11]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="brashleyholland" data-cite="brashleyholland" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Dave Batista is making is MMA debut against some guy I've never heard of at a show I don't care about.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Bautista looks like a tough dude. I doubt he'll ever be a champion for any promotion worth speaking of but lets hope he can fight a little and take a punch.</p>

[Blackman]

That story sounds legit. I fear it's probably true. There is indeed a certain logic to it, but they might as well forge a fake record. It'll have the same impact. Ok, that might be a bridge too far, but they probably won't stop this behaviour until fans don't care about the big "undefeated" streak storyline anymore.

[Fantabulous]

<p>Batiste looks like what a tough guy 'should' look like, and mentally he's probably quite tough, but he's a 43-year-old man who has suffered numerous muscles tears, some of them the same muscle over and over, and taken ten-years of wrestling wear and tear. He might beat carefully selected opponents like Rashid Evans and other glorified tomato cans, but anyone of real substance will eat him alive. </p><p> </p><p>

Chael Sonnen might not be a top-level fighter but he is a top-level self-promoter and carnie. He also proves correct the adage that the easiest fans to con are the 'smart' ones.</p>

[brashleyholland]

<p>So I can officially reveal that Cage Warriors new signing is....</p><p> </p><p>

...ME! </p><p> </p><p>

I accepted a role with Cage Warriors a couple of weeks ago, and I officially start next week. My job title is 'Ariel Helwani'. I'll basically be doing all the stuff he does at UFC events, but in-house for Cage Warriors. The promotion are going to be doing a lot of new media stuff on their website, videos, interviews etc, which I'll be the face of. I'll be running around to various gyms with a camera crew, and I'll be kind of a 'backstage correspondent' on fight week and during events. </p><p> </p><p>

I honestly can't wait - Cage Warriors are one of my favourite promotions and the chance to work alongside that team is something I'm buzzing about. I'm also relishing the opportunity to travel to places like Abu Dhabi and Aman, Jordan etc...although funnily enough next weekend's event is in London, so I'll be living in a hotel room an hour from my house all week. </p><p> </p><p>

What that means for me as a journo I don't know - Hopefully I'll be able to keep doing some of the freelance stuff I do without any conflict of interest, but we'll see. This is one of those opportunities you just don't turn down though. I'm gonna be starting a blog soon where I'll record some of my CW/MMA experiences - I'll stick a link up here when I get around to it, if anyone is interested.</p>

[brashleyholland]

<p>As I mentioned a couple of days ago, Bisping vs Stann has been confirmed at the co-main event of UFC 152. The main event will be Joseph Benavidez vs Demetrious Johnson for the first ever UFC flyweight championship. BJ vs Rory Mac is also on that card. </p><p> </p><p>

Not bad at all!</p>

[Blackman]

Nice. Looks like an awesome job for you. Congrats!

[damonster]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="brashleyholland" data-cite="brashleyholland" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>As I mentioned a couple of days ago, Bisping vs Stann has been confirmed at the co-main event of UFC 152. The main event will be Joseph Benavidez vs Demetrious Johnson for the first ever UFC flyweight championship. BJ vs Rory Mac is also on that card. <p> </p><p> Not bad at all!</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> If I get the money and am lucky enough, I could go see this live in person, just a two hour drive.</p>

[d_w_w]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="brashleyholland" data-cite="brashleyholland" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I'm gonna be starting a blog soon where I'll record some of my CW/MMA experiences - I'll stick a link up here when I get around to it, if anyone is interested.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Will definitely follow your blog.</p>

[ampulator]

I accepted a role with Cage Warriors a couple of weeks ago, and I officially start next week. My job title is 'Ariel Helwani'.

Are you going to be asking smarmy questions that annoy fighters?

[brashleyholland]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="ampulator" data-cite="ampulator" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Are you going to be asking smarmy questions that annoy fighters?</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I wouldn't have said yes if I couldn't!</p>

[Fantabulous]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="ampulator" data-cite="ampulator" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Are you going to be asking smarmy questions that annoy fighters?</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Careful, Brad; achieve any success, and you'll be getting petty treatment too.</p>

[Blackman]

Love how Strikeforce is rotating fighters nicely. Jacare has the co-main, though a lof of the other fights could've taken that spot imo. Good match-ups on paper as well, though I don't necessarily get the newly added Yamanaka vs De Randamie fight. Either they don't value Japanese fights much, or De Randamie is much better then her record suggests.

 

The coming UFC card is probably one I'm going to miss out on.

[MrSelfDestruct]

that was so horrendous, I'm almost embarrassed to say I watched it..

[bigtplaystew]

Really boring main card. Not in the dependable, slow, methodical, GSP way either. More like the "nobody went for it" way. That said, Dana White needs to chill out.

[MrSelfDestruct]

Really boring main card. Not in the dependable, slow, methodical, GSP way either. More like the "nobody went for it" way. That said, Dana White needs to chill out.

 

what'd he do?

[bigtplaystew]

The post-fight presser he was cursing and yelling and complaining about how the card sucked and all this crap. I dunno I find that to be very disrespectful to the fighters. I understand he's trying to influence his roster to put on better more entertaining fights. But there's a thin line between that and trashing guys for taking care of themselves and not taking stupid risks.

 

Whatever, Dana White knows a hell of a lot more abotu running an MMA organization than I do. I'm just saying his predictable rampages after these kinds of events are embarrassing at times.

[MrSelfDestruct]

well you can't really say they didn't deserve it. the last 3 fights were all rather lackluster. Kongo and Jordan dosie doed spinning eachother on the fence for three round.

 

Lombard got robbed IMO, neither were very aggressive, but I felt Lombard did more. Regardless though, they didn't do much.

 

Barao basically finally exposed Faber as being overrated. and everytime he'd push the fight it seemed like boxing because he'd push forward and Faber would wrap his arms up for a second and let go.

 

Nobody really pushed to have a good night, the most exciting fight was the opening bout. I think he was jsut embarassed. The last 3 were like GSP drag out bouts, except no one took anyone down hardly at all. There was very little effective striking. I think he had the right to be upset. All in all it was the worst UFC card I've seen in a long time. Even the refs didnt seem too interested in having any sort of excitement and jsut kinda let the fighters lay on eachother.

 

And with all that said I'm a huge MMA fan, and didn't expect much from this card, but it was even worse than expected :/

[bigtplaystew]

I'm not saying that Dana White has no right to be upset. Should he find a way to motivate his fighters to be more active and exciting in the octagon? Yes. Is cursing and trashing your fighters the way to go about that? Not in my opinion. But hey, that's his style. He doesn't act like every other sports CEO which is probably why his company has done well, he thinks outside of the box and focuses on delivering fans content they want to pay to see. He also throws temper tantrums when his cards aren't the best. I guess it's better than 90% of the rest of the administration in sports, that would try to polish these turds when they do happen as opposed to addressing them to the fans.

[Blackman]

The post-fight presser he was cursing and yelling and complaining about how the card sucked and all this crap. I dunno I find that to be very disrespectful to the fighters. I understand he's trying to influence his roster to put on better more entertaining fights. But there's a thin line between that and trashing guys for taking care of themselves and not taking stupid risks.

 

Whatever, Dana White knows a hell of a lot more abotu running an MMA organization than I do. I'm just saying his predictable rampages after these kinds of events are embarrassing at times.

 

He needed to do that from a commercial perspective. Everyone knows he has respect for his fighters. But a lot of the... let's say stereotype mma fans went through the same thing: "This is crap. F'n BS". The fans need to realise that this isn't the standard ufc show. He did well to do that. I have a lot of respect for his way of running the promotion.

 

@ Lombard: Didn't see the fight, but based on the report he didn't get robbed. If neither is showing offensive behaviour and nothing really happens in the fight, it's normal the judges make somewhat of a random decision. Scoring the best strike in the bout means nothing if it's coloured by 10 minutes of passivity, where the other guy lands multiple strikes.

[bigtplaystew]

He needed to do that from a commercial perspective. Everyone knows he has respect for his fighters. But a lot of the... let's say stereotype mma fans went through the same thing: "This is crap. F'n BS". The fans need to realise that this isn't the standard ufc show. He did well to do that. I have a lot of respect for his way of running the promotion.

 

Fair enough. You make intelligent points. And I don't disagree... dude just needs to take it down a bit.

 

@ Lombard: Didn't see the fight, but based on the report he didn't get robbed. If neither is showing offensive behaviour and nothing really happens in the fight, it's normal the judges make somewhat of a random decision. Scoring the best strike in the bout means nothing if it's coloured by 10 minutes of passivity, where the other guy lands multiple strikes.

 

If you saw the fight u might think differently. If Lombard didn't do enough to wint he fight, great, but Boesch did even less. It was a bad decision. You pickt he guy who won the fight. You don't go, "Oh well nothing happened in that round so I'm going to arbitrarily just pick a fighter". Lombard was dictating the pace of the fight and displaying better "octagon control". It was a poor, poor decision;