android17 Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 The Answer? more like the Decision.. Sometime the decision is the answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackman Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Sometime the decision is the answer. Smooth. But often it's not. He lost twice and drew once in his last few fights. If anything, it's the answer to the question who the best LW is. And quite frankly, it's not Edgar. It's not even sure he's better than Maynard... Anyhow, his nickname is kinda catching up to him. I for one thought the "Answer" referred to his expertise at reading opponents and training for them specifically so he'd perform better at rematches and would therefore have the "answer" to their respective styles. Recent events, however, proved him wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtplaystew Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Well those decisions have been heart-stopping, amazingly heroic performances. Why you gotta crap on Frankie?!?! Of all the UFC fighter in th world to crap on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damonster Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Well those decisions have been heart-stopping, amazingly heroic performances. Why you gotta crap on Frankie?!?! Of all the UFC fighter in th world to crap on... this. I was away on holidays the last few weeks and havn't been able to get my thoughts in on jones. I think everyone is blaming him because he's the "heel" but do people realize Machida and Shogun were both offered to fight jones but turned it down? they have as much to blame as jones does, if not more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSelfDestruct Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Well those decisions have been heart-stopping, amazingly heroic performances. Why you gotta crap on Frankie?!?! Of all the UFC fighter in th world to crap on... did you even watch the last fight with Henderson.. that was not heart-stopping. and with that said I actually don't mind decisions, I just think a guy should aim to finish. thats why I don't like GSP either. Edgar just doesnt deserve the shot. hes 1-2-1 in his last few fights. I respect him as a fighter and like that he stepped up, but they could have taken someone who isn't debuting in the weight class and have earned a shot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makhai Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 did you even watch the last fight with Henderson.. that was not heart-stopping. and with that said I actually don't mind decisions, I just think a guy should aim to finish. thats why I don't like GSP either. Edgar just doesnt deserve the shot. hes 1-2-1 in his last few fights. I respect him as a fighter and like that he stepped up, but they could have taken someone who isn't debuting in the weight class and have earned a shot This is why I hate MMA fans... 5-0 against average opposition (Wiedman) GIVE THAT GUY A SHOT! Erik Koch decisions JOHNATHAN FREAKIN' BROOKINS! And he's totally the best contender ever... (P.S. Only credible fighter he's fought against, he got beat by) Frankie Edgar goes 1-1-2 (to be fair) against the #2 LWs in the best division in MMA.... WHAT A BUM! WIN SOME FIGHTS YOU BUM! Frankie Edgar is the toughest test of Jose Aldo's career, and Frankie is the most commercially successful fighter he's ever faced. What is the problem here? Slam-dunk matchmaking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtplaystew Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 did you even watch the last fight with Henderson.. that was not heart-stopping. and with that said I actually don't mind decisions, I just think a guy should aim to finish. thats why I don't like GSP either. Sir, I did watch the fight. It was good. Did you?? Because I felt both guys were trying to finish but couldn't which led to a very good fight. Was it fight of the year? No. But it was a good championship fight where both guys brought their best. IT deserves more respect than you're giving it. My point in the first place is that of all the dudes to take issue with, Edgar should be at the bottom. With his quality of fights and his quality of opponents I just don't know how a knowledgeable fan of the sport can be anything but respectful about this guy. I gotta pay for these events, I've never felt anything but confident that I'm about to see a great main event if he's in it. Whatever opinions are opinions in the end. I love watching him fight and have all the respect in the world for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantabulous Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 I think everyone is blaming him because he's the "heel" but do people realize Machida and Shogun were both offered to fight jones but turned it down? they have as much to blame as jones does, if not more. They have absolutely no blame to bear at all and it's absurd to claim they do. Their turning down the fight didn't cause Dana to cancel the PPV. Jones turning down the Sonnen fight did. And that's why he is getting the blame, because Jones caused the PPV to get cancelled. You can make all the arguments you want about how UFC has to shoulder some of the blame for making such a weak card in the first place, and those arguments would be correct, and you just as accurately point out that Jones had the right to not take the fight, but the fact remains that PPV was cancelled because Jones refused to fight Chael Sonnen tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-Money Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 They have absolutely no blame to bear at all and it's absurd to claim they do. Their turning down the fight didn't cause Dana to cancel the PPV. Jones turning down the Sonnen fight did. And that's why he is getting the blame, because Jones caused the PPV to get cancelled. You can make all the arguments you want about how UFC has to shoulder some of the blame for making such a weak card in the first place, and those arguments would be correct, and you just as accurately point out that Jones had the right to not take the fight, but the fact remains that PPV was cancelled because Jones refused to fight Chael Sonnen tonight. No, the PPV got cancelled cause Henderson got injured, and instead of being a man and maning up and say when you got injured, he tried to be superman and fight through it. I understand he wants to fight, but you gotta realize Hendo you're old dude, your body can't keep up like when you were younger, so he should've let the UFC know when he first found out about the injury, that way Dana them would've had a good amount of time to find a replacement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSelfDestruct Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Sir, I did watch the fight. It was good. Did you?? Because I felt both guys were trying to finish but couldn't which led to a very good fight. Was it fight of the year? No. But it was a good championship fight where both guys brought their best. IT deserves more respect than you're giving it. My point in the first place is that of all the dudes to take issue with, Edgar should be at the bottom. With his quality of fights and his quality of opponents I just don't know how a knowledgeable fan of the sport can be anything but respectful about this guy. I gotta pay for these events, I've never felt anything but confident that I'm about to see a great main event if he's in it. Whatever opinions are opinions in the end. I love watching him fight and have all the respect in the world for him. yeah i actually did watch it and no one tried to finish anything the entire fight. I respect fighters, but that jsut was not a good fight and IMO it is highly overrated. Each fighter had one good round and then the other three nothing big happened at all. That does not make it a good fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSelfDestruct Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 This is why I hate MMA fans... 5-0 against average opposition (Wiedman) GIVE THAT GUY A SHOT! Erik Koch decisions JOHNATHAN FREAKIN' BROOKINS! And he's totally the best contender ever... (P.S. Only credible fighter he's fought against, he got beat by) Frankie Edgar goes 1-1-2 (to be fair) against the #2 LWs in the best division in MMA.... WHAT A BUM! WIN SOME FIGHTS YOU BUM! Frankie Edgar is the toughest test of Jose Aldo's career, and Frankie is the most commercially successful fighter he's ever faced. What is the problem here? Slam-dunk matchmaking. Did you even read what I wrote? I didn't say oh give some guy that beat a TUF disaster a shot, hes the best contender. Pick someone who has EARNED it. By winning their fights. Yes Edgar is going to be his biggest test but he has not earned it. Let someone who has strung together a few wins decisively get the shot. This is also why I didnt support the Chael oppuritunity at Jones. (Which i'm a huge Chael fan btw) He was just shown up by someone a a lower weight. I'm not saying Frankie is a bad fighter at all, I'm just saying let him drop down and beat a few contenders before just throwing him in there for his 3rd title match in a row. Its his first fight at that weight so he hasnt proven anything at that weight. I'm not just swinging from his nuts like you. Read what I wrote before you claim I'm some average fan saying "win some fights you suck" I'm saying prove yourself at that weight and decisively win and earn the shot you are given Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantabulous Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 No, the PPV got cancelled cause Henderson got injured, and instead of being a man and maning up and say when you got injured, he tried to be superman and fight through it. I understand he wants to fight, but you gotta realize Hendo you're old dude, your body can't keep up like when you were younger, so he should've let the UFC know when he first found out about the injury, that way Dana them would've had a good amount of time to find a replacement. Henderson should have informed the UFC the moment he was injured, but the reason the PPV was cancelled was because Jones refused the Sonnen fight. If Jones accepts, the PPV is on; if he declines, it's off. The circumstances that led up to that decision, that blame does go to Henderson and the UFC, but whether the PPV took place or not all came down to what decision Jones made. He made the decision that ultimately cancelled the PPV, so the blame goes to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackman Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 @ Makhai: Please keep your rants out of this thread. This kind of posts rather belong in sherdog forums. It's full with people who post quite like you did just now. We are all respectable posters here who never 'crap' on anyone. We mainly gave our honest opinions based on some facts. Please read the posts in question twice if you have trouble interpreting words. No one said Edgar "sucked" or was "crappy". I just stated I had my doubts he's the no 1 LW. Like petecrimson says, he lacks the tools to finish top level contenders. That doesn't make him suck. It just means he's no Silva or Bones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makhai Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Did you even read what I wrote? I didn't say oh give some guy that beat a TUF disaster a shot, hes the best contender. Pick someone who has EARNED it. By winning their fights. Yes Edgar is going to be his biggest test but he has not earned it. Let someone who has strung together a few wins decisively get the shot. This is also why I didnt support the Chael oppuritunity at Jones. (Which i'm a huge Chael fan btw) He was just shown up by someone a a lower weight. I'm not saying Frankie is a bad fighter at all, I'm just saying let him drop down and beat a few contenders before just throwing him in there for his 3rd title match in a row. Its his first fight at that weight so he hasnt proven anything at that weight. I'm not just swinging from his nuts like you. Read what I wrote before you claim I'm some average fan saying "win some fights you suck" I'm saying prove yourself at that weight and decisively win and earn the shot you are given If he's the best guy at the weight class with the most quality wins and is miles better than anything around him... He can cut in line... Because that's how fighting works. Randy Couture did it all the time, he didn't finish many fights either. I bet you wouldn't say the same about him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makhai Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 @ Makhai: Please keep your rants out of this thread. This kind of posts rather belong in sherdog forums. It's full with people who post quite like you did just now. We are all respectable posters here who never 'crap' on anyone. We mainly gave our honest opinions based on some facts. Please read the posts in question twice if you have trouble interpreting words. No one said Edgar "sucked" or was "crappy". I just stated I had my doubts he's the no 1 LW. Like petecrimson says, he lacks the tools to finish top level contenders. That doesn't make him suck. It just means he's no Silva or Bones. The high horse, get off of it. Especially after the inane Jon Jones commentary literally 1 click from this post which was basically word-for-word what was on the UG minus the clever photoshop usage. Also, why does he have to be "the no.1 LW" to face Jose Aldo? FW is a division which is still climbing out of the primordial ooze in MMA. LW is statistically the deepest, most well-rounded division in the sport, if we're taking about "deserved title shots" based on resume; Edgar has a good case to fight for every title in MMA today... He has more quality wins than anybody else "in the mix", and is still at the top of the heap at that weight-class. Hell, based solely on resume: Donald Cerrone is more accomplished than Junior Dos Santos, Jose Aldo, either flyweight, AND Dominic Cruz. That's how deep 155 is... Leo Santos can't even get a UFC deal... is better than Eric Koch. That should tell you a lot about 145lbs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSelfDestruct Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 If he's the best guy at the weight class with the most quality wins and is miles better than anything around him... He can cut in line... Because that's how fighting works. Randy Couture did it all the time, he didn't finish many fights either. I bet you wouldn't say the same about him. He can cut in line because he's more popular. not because of his skill level. especially not at 145 where he has never even shown it.how is he the best at that weight if hes never BEEN at that weight? its all popularity. And thats where Couture and Lesnar come in. Bad example. Fighting shouldn't work like "oh hes more popular and hasnt done crap at that weight but give him a shot" it should be given to those who have earned it. but sadly its all about money. And Edgar was the most popular available. thats it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSelfDestruct Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 . Hell, based solely on resume: Donald Cerrone is more accomplished than Junior Dos Santos, Jose Aldo, either flyweight, AND Dominic Cruz. That's how deep 155 is... Leo Santos can't even get a UFC deal... is better than Eric Koch. That should tell you a lot about 145lbs. except that Cerrone got massively outclassed by Diaz. and who big has he beaten?.. his biggest win is over Siver or Gullard (which he almost lost to begin with) those are not top 10 names Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makhai Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 except that Cerrone got massively outclassed by Diaz. and who big has he beaten?.. his biggest win is over Siver or Gullard (which he almost lost to begin with) those are not top 10 names You are not grasping the concept of prizefighting: beat the fighters who've beat other really good fighters. For example: Frankie Edgar beat Gray Maynard, who beat Nate Diaz, Jim Miller, Kenny Florian, and Roger Huerta. Frankie beat BJ Penn twice: who beat Diego Sanchez, Matt Hughes, Sean Sherk, Jens Pulver, Caol Uno, Matt Serra, Takanori Gomi, Kenny Florian and Joe Stevenson... That means Edgar is accomplished, because he has those guys, as well as Sean Sherk, Spencer Fisher(not the current shopworn one) and Jim Miller, who beat all the guys they did to get where they were. Who has Erik Koch beat, that he can say is accomplished more than ONE of those guys, nonetheless all of them? Rafael Assuncao? Thus he doesn't warrant that fight. This is a business predicated on the scalps on your mantle. Erik Koch, or anybody else in FW division doesn't have 1/2 as many, combined. If we're going on the basis of who "deserves" Aldo the most. Frankie would be fighting Aldo in the Thunderdome about 59 times in a row before anybody had a good enough resume to surpass him... P.S. Denis Siver is the #6 FW right now. You're making my point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSelfDestruct Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 You are not grasping the concept of prizefighting: beat the fighters who've beat other really good fighters. For example: Frankie Edgar beat Gray Maynard, who beat Nate Diaz, Jim Miller, Kenny Florian, and Roger Huerta. Frankie beat BJ Penn twice: who beat Diego Sanchez, Matt Hughes, Sean Sherk, Jens Pulver, Caol Uno, Matt Serra, Takanori Gomi, Kenny Florian and Joe Stevenson... That means Edgar is accomplished, because he has those guys, as well as Sean Sherk, Spencer Fisher(not the current shopworn one) and Jim Miller, who beat all the guys they did to get where they were. Who has Erik Koch beat, that he can say is accomplished more than ONE of those guys, nonetheless all of them? Rafael Assuncao? Thus he doesn't warrant that fight. This is a business predicated on the scalps on your mantle. Erik Koch, or anybody else in FW division doesn't have 1/2 as many, combined. P.S. Denis Siver is the #6 FW right now. You're making my point. Not really. Siver dropped weight and has a streak going now at a lower weight. thats the only guy Cerrone has beaten worth anything towards your claim. One top 10 fighter who is now at a lower weight beats out JDS, Aldo, and Cruz's streaks where they were given no easy fights? thats what you're saying, and that just makes no sense. I'm not saying Koch is better moneywise. Edgar is the biggest for a cashcow performance, BUT they could pick someone who has earned the shot at that weight. Edgar is a good fighter, he just got picked on popularity alone. I have no doubts Edgar could be the #1 contender at FW someday, he has a lot of heart. But to throw him in now is kind of silly. He wins, the title scene looks weak. Having had your champion just lose to someone on a 2-fight loss streak, regardless of closeness of the fight, still losses.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makhai Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 Not really. Siver dropped weight and has a streak going now at a lower weight. thats the only guy Cerrone has beaten worth anything towards your claim. One top 10 fighter who is now at a lower weight beats out JDS, Aldo, and Cruz's streaks where they were given no easy fights? thats what you're saying, and that just makes no sense. I'm not saying Koch is better moneywise. Edgar is the biggest for a cashcow performance, BUT they could pick someone who has earned the shot at that weight. Edgar is a good fighter, he just got picked on popularity alone. I have no doubts Edgar could be the #1 contender at FW someday, he has a lot of heart. But to throw him in now is kind of silly. He wins, the title scene looks weak. Having had your champion just lose to someone on a 2-fight loss streak, regardless of closeness of the fight, still losses.. This is not pro-wrestling. It's not about illusions, it's about reality. If Edgar beats Aldo, than he proves he's the superior fighter who holds major wins in the sport. This is what gives the belt credibility. Not winning streaks, or momentum, or overness. Who you did you beat? How did you beat them? When it's all said and done, that's all that people will remember. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSelfDestruct Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 This is not pro-wrestling. It's not about illusions, it's about reality. If Edgar beats Aldo, than he proves he's the superior fighter who holds major wins in the sport. This is what gives the belt credibility. Not winning streaks, or momentum, or overness. Who you did you beat? How did you beat them? When it's all said and done, that's all that people will remember. Not neccesarily, who wants a champion who is 1-2 in their past 3 fights? That does not look good for business. bottom line. The only way it does at all, is if he goes in there and dominates, proving himself worthy, but knowing Edgar that won't happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daffanka Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 Frankie Edgar could well be 4-0 in his last four and he fought two guys who've each been knocked out once in their entire career, one as an amateur and the other by his own slam. Also he's cool and good and if he keeps his cardio at 145 he's going to put Aldo through a grinder in the last three rounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtplaystew Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 Not neccesarily, who wants a champion who is 1-2 in their past 3 fights? OK, what he's trying to tell is that yes, he would. And so would I. And so would many MMA fans who understand the big picture. For one, it's a replacement fight. Another thing is that Makhai's been saying that he feels (as do I) That Frankie's 1-2 is actually more impressive than some the the streaking challengers in that weight class. Petecrimson, let me ask you this question, what would you have UFC do? Make the Aldo/Edgar fight a non title fight? The number 1 contender got hurt, so they replaced him with a proven main event guy in Edgar. What would be your solution that is so much better than this one? You think it would be better for Aldo to wait? Because MMA fans just got done crying all about Jones and what he decided to do rather than defend the title against a guy who just lost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackman Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 The high horse, get off of it. Especially after the inane Jon Jones commentary literally 1 click from this post which was basically word-for-word what was on the UG minus the clever photoshop usage. Also, why does he have to be "the no.1 LW" to face Jose Aldo? FW is a division which is still climbing out of the primordial ooze in MMA. LW is statistically the deepest, most well-rounded division in the sport, if we're taking about "deserved title shots" based on resume; Edgar has a good case to fight for every title in MMA today... He has more quality wins than anybody else "in the mix", and is still at the top of the heap at that weight-class. Hell, based solely on resume: Donald Cerrone is more accomplished than Junior Dos Santos, Jose Aldo, either flyweight, AND Dominic Cruz. That's how deep 155 is... Leo Santos can't even get a UFC deal... is better than Eric Koch. That should tell you a lot about 145lbs. Almost feels like one needs to get off a big horse to adress people uttering childish remarks and making ridiculous assumptions. My point, which you seem to have missed, was that your post was disrespectful. The concept "no 1 fighter" is also subjective. Going by the general definition, the champ should be no 1. And he's not the champ. But obviously some people still consider him no 1, and for good reason I guess. In MMA, however, track record is not an exact representative of ranking. Not a lot of people get that. If you're fighting only twice a month, a lot can change in the period in-between. As for the title shot itself, I do agree that he earned it. He's one of the current most well-known guys in the sport. I don't really get how you have to earn shots at the same weight class. Your reputation transcends simple constructs such as boundaries of weight classes. This is not pro-wrestling. It's not about illusions, it's about reality. If Edgar beats Aldo, than he proves he's the superior fighter who holds major wins in the sport. This is what gives the belt credibility. Not winning streaks, or momentum, or overness. Who you did you beat? How did you beat them? When it's all said and done, that's all that people will remember. Right... I'm not going to instruct you on the 'reality' of MMA. You seem to know that. The truth, however, is that nobody but a couple of insiders know the reality of the situation in the weight class. What we do know is the perceived reality. I know for a fact that lots of people think quite like that. They don't want a champion who is on a losing streak. You might disagree with me, but seen from a recent perspective, Frankie Edgar is... a loser. That is a fact. They're handing out title shots to losers. You might see the bigger picture, as Edgar obviously is a very talented guy, but lots of casual mma fans don't think like you do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSelfDestruct Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 . Petecrimson, let me ask you this question, what would you have UFC do? Make the Aldo/Edgar fight a non title fight? The number 1 contender got hurt, so they replaced him with a proven main event guy in Edgar. What would be your solution that is so much better than this one? You think it would be better for Aldo to wait? Because MMA fans just got done crying all about Jones and what he decided to do rather than defend the title against a guy who just lost. I do think it'd be better to wait, I didnt do the whole Jones backlash. Hell give Frankie a single FW fight and I'd support this. But its his first fight at the weight, so it could be hit or miss. He wins hes a 1-2 champ (not 4-0 as Daffanka said, Bendo beat him good the first time and Maynard nearly beat him too before the rematch) But that wont make them money waiting, so they are doing it now, which I understand. I agree that Frankie could be a force at 145, but let him prove that beforehand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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