The Official MMA Discussion Thread

[brashleyholland]

<p>What a crazy 12 months we're having. Silva gets KO'd, two guys who have been fighting since the mid 90's headline a UFC card, Hendo gets stopped for the first time in 16 years, Jones comes within a whisker of losing and JDS gets wrecked twice. </p><p> </p><p>

Makes you wonder about this weekend's main event....</p><p> </p><p>

I tipped Hendricks before he got to the UFC, and I tipped him again once he'd made it to the big show. GSP looked beatable for the first time against Condit and while Hendricks is a very different kind of fighter, I genuinely believe he can get it done. I don't think I've said that (and meant it) about anyone GSP has faced. </p><p> </p><p>

I've got Evans, MacDonald, Kos, Bagautinov, Cerrone, Leites, Story, Perez, High, Pettis and Donovan underneath.</p>

[brashleyholland]

<p>Interesting bit of news today as well - Meisha Tate beat Ronda Rousey in the first round of voting to be on the cover of EA UFC. </p><p> </p><p>

Has RR's portrayal on TUF been detrimental to her popularity? </p><p> </p><p>

***Tinfoil hat time*** Was that the plan all along? Given how much control the UFC has over what airs on the show, did they intentionally make Ronda look bad so as to avoid another Gina Carano situation? They've invested a lot on Rousey and she's already crossing over into movies. Stranger things have happened.</p>

[bigtplaystew]

<p>Anyone see Alvarez/Chandler 2? BH? Blackman? Anyone?</p><p> </p><p>

I've been meaning to post but hadn't gotten around to it. What'd you guys think of the decision? Eddie Alvarez is from Philadelphia (my hometown) so I already love him. Plus he grew up with a couple of guys I drink with. So when watching his fights, I am completely incapable of an unbiased opinion.</p><p> </p><p>

I felt he did enough to win that fight. I'd be interested to read your thoughts. I thought was super close, but round by round I do think Eddie outpointed him just a bit. </p><p> </p><p>

Alvarez/Chandler 3 is going to be a monster.</p>

[Blackman]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="brashleyholland" data-cite="brashleyholland" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Interesting bit of news today as well - Meisha Tate beat Ronda Rousey in the first round of voting to be on the cover of EA UFC.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Interesting indeed. I went on fb yesterday and saw the 'leaders' in the poll. Either Miesha somehow massed a large audience to overcome the gap or it was just really close. But you're suggesting manipulation of some kind, given RR has stated to leave UFC perhaps within the year? That would indeed look bad for the company. And you just know Miesha will stay with MMA till the end. And you know RR will leave as she's bound to be beaten soon and retiring undefeated is just a little more prestigious (though it did not hurt Carano that much).</p><p> </p><p> @bigtplaystew: nope, sorry.</p>

[jesterx7769]

<p>The Rousey image is an interesting one. Whether it is the UFC or the TV people being involved in the editing at the end of the day it is a UFC product and if say Lorenzo was super upset by it, it would be changed.</p><p> </p><p>

I am not sure if they are making her look bad on purpose or if it is more of a people are getting sick of her thing. She was ALL over the place earlier this year. Casual fans (like my gf) still love her and will support her. However to fight fans, she has still only fought in the UFC once, so credibility is still an issue (not like shes gone 10-0 as womans champion). </p><p> </p><p>

From the TV side, they may be trying to garner more Tate fans to make the fight seem more even in fanbase since at the beginning Rousey probably had 90% of the market share, but that isn't good for the UFC should she indeed leave relatively soon. Tate has also been VERY calm about the whole thing. "I respect Ronda, she's great, bla blah" where Rhonda has not. From the first press conference Tate stands their smiling while Ronda scowls. Kinda gets old. Tate has also made more effort to go mainstream with things like the "sexy" ESPN shoot.</p><p> </p><p>

As far as the actual poll, I don't think it is that surprising in hind sight. Casual fans are not voting for the UFC video game cover, people that follow the UFC on Facebook are. As mentioned earlier, those fight fans may be getting a little sick of Rousey's attitude by now , even if they will still support her come fight night. There is also probably a good amount of people that wanted to "stick it" to Rousey and voted for Tate.</p>

[brashleyholland]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="jesterx7769" data-cite="jesterx7769" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div> Whether it is the UFC or the TV people being involved in the editing </div></blockquote><p> </p><p> UFC bods have the absolute final say over what goes out. </p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Tate has also made more effort to go mainstream with things like the "sexy" ESPN shoot. </div></blockquote><p> </p><p> All solicited and booked by the UFC. </p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Casual fans are not voting for the UFC video game cover, people that follow the UFC on Facebook are. As mentioned earlier, those fight fans may be getting a little sick of Rousey's attitude by now, even if they will still support her come fight night.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Good point. I wonder though, how blurred the line is these days between casuals and those who follow UFC on Facebook? </p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>There is also probably a good amount of people that wanted to "stick it" to Rousey and voted for Tate.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Another good shout.</p>

[brashleyholland]

<p>Some 'me' related news for anyone who gives a toss - My role with Cage Warriors has changed quite significantly. I'm no longer doing backstage interviews, I'm now basically CW's version of Burt Watson (don't sound nearly as cool yelling "WE ROLLIN'!! though), looking after the fighters on event week, weigh in day etc.</p><p> </p><p>

Not only that, a week before the last event in Amman, Jordan, I was told I'd be taking over play-by-play duties. Apparently I did alright, as I've been given the nod to do the next three events to finish out the year. Not really one to blow my own trumpet, but I remember my old mum sneering at a UFC tape about 16 years ago, saying "what a load of old rubbish", so it's pretty sweet to have her watch me broadcasting live on TV all these years later, making a living from this crazy game...</p><p> </p><p>

Even if I did end my first live link by saying "It's great to be back in Amman"... </p><p> </p><p>

And check this, we've got three cards in December. Newcastle on December 7th, Dublin on New Years Eve...and on the 14th of December we just booked a show in Baghdad, Iraq. Sure beats a 9-5!</p>

[Blackman]

<p>Good job Brad!</p><p> </p><p>

But to come back to Rousey. She seems eager to keep her winning streak intact. To me, it seems like a mere matter of a couple of fights until she encounters someone who can strike well and actually sticks to that plan. Though she looks like she has a good chin, it's still to be tested. She acts like her striking is super-awesome, but it's not. She'll probably beat Tate again, and after that, what? Zingano might never be her old self again, and Davis and Lioness will need another fight to build up to a title shot.</p><p> </p><p>

When asked, Rhonda does seem to 'respect' Tate as a fighter, but then again, she has to if she wants people to respect her UFC career. If she's retiring within the year, all she has on her record is Tate. Whether the others ever reach top level remains to be seen. You don't want your title reign seem like a joke.</p>

[Guest codey]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="brashleyholland" data-cite="brashleyholland" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div><p> And check this, we've got three cards in December. Newcastle on December 7th, Dublin on New Years Eve...and on the 14th of December we just booked a show in Baghdad, Iraq. Sure beats a 9-5!</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Newcastle on the 27th, you say? I might just be in attendance since I recently moved about 20 minutes away!</p>

[EddieFnG]

<p>Regarding the Tate - Rousey thing, Rousey did the ESPN Body issue a year before Tate.</p><p> </p><p>

And congrats, to Brashley. <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/smile.png.142cfa0a1cd2925c0463c1d00f499df2.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[brashleyholland]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="codey" data-cite="codey" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Newcastle on the 27th, you say? I might just be in attendance since I recently moved about 20 minutes away!</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Newcastle on the 7th of December <img alt=":)" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/smile.png.142cfa0a1cd2925c0463c1d00f499df2.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p> <a href="http://www.cagewarriors.com/events-and-tickets/article/cage_warriors_62" rel="external nofollow">Cage Warriors 62 card</a> </p><p> </p><p> Curt Warburton's CWFC debut, UFC vet Ulysses Gomez fighting Europe's #3 flyweight Neil Seery for the 125lb title, Europe's #4 bantamweight James Brum, couple of female fights (one featuring Laura Howarth, who was on TUF) and a pretty sick undercard!</p>

[Blackman]

<p>So the UFC is really serious about women's MMA. I'd have liked it more than they'd expand the bantamweights more, as the division is still a little short on fighters, but I guess it wouldn't hurt to expand to another division.</p><p> </p><p>

That would, however, bring the total divisions up to a whopping 9. As a WMMA3 vet, I can't help but see problems if their current event schedule won't change. If they want to keep the divisions healthy, they more or less need to produce shows on a weekly basis. Sports history points out that fans have no problems spending an evening a week on watching a sports show. If they can keep it manageable financially (as most people won't shell out 50$ a month), I'm sure it's doable.</p><p> </p><p>

As for the bigger picture, we might even start seeing UFC applying for something bigger. The viability for MMA becoming an Olympic sport is slowly rising, especially now they're working on gender equality, which is one of their big prerequirements. 2024 might see Pankration coming back to the spotlights.</p>

[brashleyholland]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Blackman" data-cite="Blackman" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>So the UFC is really serious about women's MMA. I'd have liked it more than they'd expand the bantamweights more, as the division is still a little short on fighters, but I guess it wouldn't hurt to expand to another division.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I think, much like with there 135 division now, you see a lot of girls moving up or down, so depth wont be an issue for long. I can honestly see them buying out Invicta and either WEC'ing it for a bit or straight up folding it into the UFC with Shannon Knapp looking after things. Shannon is awesome and is well liked by Dana and co. </p><p> </p><p> Looking forward to the likes of Calderwood, Herrig, Hyatt and co getting their time to shine. If anyone hasn't see Jo Jo Calderwood yet, go check her out...she's a menace. Here's a mini-doc (11 mins) on her. </p><p> </p><p> </p><div class="ipsEmbeddedVideo"><div><iframe width="200" height="113" src="https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/uM9MF90kaDQ?feature=oembed" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen="" title="Joanne Calderwood: You don't have to be loud to be heard"></iframe></div></div><p> </p><p> I defy anyone not to like her after that <img alt=":)" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/smile.png.142cfa0a1cd2925c0463c1d00f499df2.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>As for the bigger picture, we might even start seeing UFC applying for something bigger. The viability for MMA becoming an Olympic sport is slowly rising, especially now they're working on gender equality, which is one of their big prerequirements. 2024 might see Pankration coming back to the spotlights.<p> </p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> The problem is, and always will be, you need a global governing body to be eligible. Like the Shooto network, but on a global scale. Maybe we'll see it for amateur MMA at some point, but I'd say it's probably a good 10-20 years away yet.</p>

[brashleyholland]

<p>I reckon GSP takes it tonight. He'll ride that jab like it's going out of fashion. His huge reach advantage over Hendricks is gonna make it difficult for Big Rig to get in and land that big shot, and GSP is never going to oblidge him in a firefight for the sake of entertainment. </p><p> </p><p>

With that said, I'll be cheering Hendricks on until my throat hurts <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/smile.png.142cfa0a1cd2925c0463c1d00f499df2.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p>

Evans, MacDonald, Kos and Bagautinov as well!</p>

[EddieFnG]

<p>Daaaaaaamn, Kos.</p><p> </p><p>

And I hope they sign Kheyfets, who I have a serious crush on thanks to WMMA. <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[MrSelfDestruct]

well.. thats the least I've seen someone do to win a fight about ever. Hendricks was robbed. 1,2,4 at the least there is no question, if you can convince me in any way other than fightmetric and not watching the fight, amuse me. Even if GSP had more punches he did nothing to Hendricks in terms of damage

[EddieFnG]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="petecrimson00" data-cite="petecrimson00" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>well.. thats the least I've seen someone do to win a fight about ever. Hendricks was robbed. 1,2,4 at the least there is no question, if you can convince me in any way other than fightmetric and not watching the fight, amuse me. Even if GSP had more punches he did nothing to Hendricks in terms of damage</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> While I had the fight for Hendricks as well, if you think round 1 was Hendricks without a shadow of a doubt, you need to look at the fight again, it was a close round, and they always go in the champion's favor on the judge's scorecard.</p>

[Blackman]

<p>Yeah, it was close. I honestly wasn't paying attention to scoring, so I was kinda undecided.</p><p> </p><p>

I wonder if the judges are indeed professionals and not just some schmucks who see a fighter get raised by his team and think: "oh, that one must've won the fight for sure". What are in fact the criteria: getting hit hard or getting hit tout court. I honestly don't know. It's all so subjective. I hate split decisions. One man holds the key to the floodgates of internet fora. <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[MrSelfDestruct]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="EddieFnG" data-cite="EddieFnG" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>While I had the fight for Hendricks as well, if you think round 1 was Hendricks without a shadow of a doubt, you need to look at the fight again, it was a close round, and they always go in the champion's favor on the judge's scorecard.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> well considering GSP did nothing in the whole first after the first 20 seconds and was taken down and bullied on the cage and couldn't get a takedown on the fence, it wasn't the most dominant of rounds for Hendricks but one he definitely won in any sober fan's eyes..</p><p> </p><p> How the hell GSP outlanded Hendricks in Significant Strikes for the fight is beyond me. I have to begin to wonder what the bar is for that as GSP did no damage and I hardly saw him landing. He was only down by 2 sig strikes in Round 2, yet that was the round he was wobbled.. Gotta wonder how many lovetaps got called "significant" at this point</p>

[brashleyholland]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="petecrimson00" data-cite="petecrimson00" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>well.. thats the least I've seen someone do to win a fight about ever. Hendricks was robbed. 1,2,4 at the least there is no question, if you can convince me in any way other than fightmetric and not watching the fight, amuse me. Even if GSP had more punches he did nothing to Hendricks in terms of damage</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> <img alt=":(" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/frown.png.e6b571745a30fe6a6f2e918994141a47.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p> When MMA fans say robbed, they mean 'close fight that didn't go the way I thought it would'. A robery would have been if everyone had Hendricks winning 5-0 or 4-1 and the nod went to GSP, but that didn't happen here. All three judges (and pretty much the concensus) had the last four rounds being split the same way. This was a fight that was decided by it's closest round, the first. </p><p> </p><p> Everyone is entitled to there opinion, but in my experience very few MMA fans know how to accurately apply the scoring criteria to a fight. Infact, you'd be amazed at how many media members, coaches and fighters don't know how to score fights either. Also, if you watched it in a bar, or while talking to friends, or you took a sip of your drink, looked at your phone or whatever for even a split second, your opinion doesn't count. </p><p> </p><p> I think the problem people are having with this decision (and others) is that while Hendricks took his rounds reasonably clearly, GSP only squeaked his. That's something the 10-point must system doesn't take into account, but that's a debate for another day. </p><p> </p><p> At least nobody is saying that Hendricks should have won due to damage :-p</p>

[brashleyholland]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Blackman" data-cite="Blackman" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div><p> </p><p> I wonder if the judges are indeed professionals and not just some schmucks who see a fighter get raised by his team and think: "oh, that one must've won the fight for sure". </p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> It doesn't even matter, as all the judges have an official stood behind them who takes their score after each round ends. By the time the fighters have done a lap with their arms up on their coaches shoulders, the scores for the last round are already in and being added. </p><p> </p><p> In my experience judging is better in general outside of the US, where judges are chosen based on experience and ability, rather than being assigned by a commission. </p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="EddieFnG" data-cite="EddieFnG" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div> they always go in the champion's favor on the judge's scorecard.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Urban legend.</p>

[MrSelfDestruct]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="brashleyholland" data-cite="brashleyholland" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div><img alt=":(" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/frown.png.e6b571745a30fe6a6f2e918994141a47.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /><p> </p><p> When MMA fans say robbed, they mean 'close fight that didn't go the way I thought it would'. A robery would have been if everyone had Hendricks winning 5-0 or 4-1 and the nod went to GSP, but that didn't happen here. All three judges (and pretty much the concensus) had the last four rounds being split the same way. This was a fight that was decided by it's closest round, the first. </p><p> </p><p> </p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> First of all, yes, I wanted Jonny to win BUT when the general consensus is that it was a robbery in MMA, even Canadians/GSP nuthuggers admitting they thought he lost, a bunch of actual fighters even, saying it was a robbery, I don't think it is just "Oh we all wanted Jonny to win" </p><p> </p><p> I do go by the 10-must sytem and I don't like it. It evolved the sport to point fighting, which to me, ruins many potentially amazing fights.</p><p> </p><p> I don't see how the first round was so close.. I really don't GSP was active the first 30 seconds and then Jonny bullied him in the wrestling, even taking him down, I was amazed by him just picking GSP up against the cage and throwing him like a rag doll. </p><p> </p><p> I don't care how many punches you land in a round like that if they don't affect jack shit. The only way I can see GSP winning that round is if the judge missed it and went purely on strike count. Seriously, what did he do to win that round, entertain this notion to where I can get it</p>

[damonster]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="petecrimson00" data-cite="petecrimson00" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>a robbery in MMA, even Canadians/GSP nuthuggers admitting they thought he lost</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> *Note I only saw the final two rounds and had it round 4 to Hendricks, round 5 to GSP.*</p><p> </p><p> From everything I've heard, it was not a robbery just a questionable decision. Now a lot of people have said they thought Hendricks won, however I have seen many say that they re-watched it and agreed with the decision, and some claim that they found GSP to win when they didn't listen to the commentary.</p><p> </p><p> For the claims, I have only really seen a Hendricks clearly won statement, but most guys backing GSP have pointed out and proved others how he won.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> In another note, does anyone think Hendricks tapped in the first round. At first it didn't look like it, but after seeing different angles and the clip multiple times, it looked like he did.</p>

[brashleyholland]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="petecrimson00" data-cite="petecrimson00" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div><p> </p><p> I don't see how the first round was so close.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Then you don't understand how MMA is scored. It was the closest round in the entire fight, and the only one that split the judges. </p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Seriously, what did he do to win that round</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Just sit down with a stopwatch and apply the scoring criteria. Even if you come back with a 10-9 for GSP, you'll see that it's a close round. </p><p> </p><p> How do you apply the scoring system to that round?</p>

[brashleyholland]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="damonster" data-cite="damonster" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div><p> In another note, does anyone think Hendricks tapped in the first round. At first it didn't look like it, but after seeing different angles and the clip multiple times, it looked like he did.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Not in a million years.</p>