The Official MMA Discussion Thread

[The Shape]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="ampulator" data-cite="ampulator" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Update: There might a real good reason why GSP couldn't see out his eye-<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEDAHzU5sr4" rel="external nofollow">Jake shields poke in him in the eye</a>. I have no idea whether it's intentional/purposeful or accidental, but this explains a lot.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Will that have done all the damage? Haven't seen it since but he was bleeding so much it looked like there must have been a cut beyond the eye scratch, Cesar Gracie said he broke his nose, not sure if that's true...</p>

[ampulator]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="The Shape" data-cite="The Shape" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Will that have done all the damage? Haven't seen it since but he was bleeding so much it looked like there must have been a cut beyond the eye scratch, Cesar Gracie said he broke his nose, not sure if that's true...</div></blockquote><p> I don't think GSP was bleeding that much... I think he did have a nose bleed, though. GSP's face has always been a little bit... tender.</p>

[brashleyholland]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="The Shape" data-cite="The Shape" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Will that have done all the damage? Haven't seen it since but he was bleeding so much it looked like there must have been a cut beyond the eye scratch, Cesar Gracie said he broke his nose, not sure if that's true...</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I *think* I remember seeing him with a pretty good split across the bridge of his nose by the end...pretty good indicator of a broken nose. I'll have to check though. He definatelly took a good punch right in the eye though, which they showed a couple of replays of on the PPV.</p>

[Fantabulous]

Fedor Emelianenko vs. Dan Henderson looks set to be the main event for the 7/30 Strikeforce show.

 

If Fedor can push the pace for long enough then Hendo could tire out. On the other hand, if Dan lands the 'H-Bomb' he could very well knock Fedor out. If that happens, I think Fedor might be done as a serious draw.

[ampulator]

Fedor Emelianenko vs. Dan Henderson looks set to be the main event for the 7/30 Strikeforce show.

 

If Fedor can push the pace for long enough then Hendo could tire out. On the other hand, if Dan lands the 'H-Bomb' he could very well knock Fedor out. If that happens, I think Fedor might be done as a serious draw.

Is it a done deal? Dan Henderson has publicly stated he's willing to fight at Heavyweight, which means this is Fedor's fight to lose. I also doubt Dan Henderson is giong to "tire", he's going to be fighting at 206, and said Fedor can come in the weight he pleases.

 

I'm not so sure Henderson could KO Fedor. Fedor has never been KOed. It's going to be a slugfest, unless Fedor decides to LnP. I doubt Henderson will, or could, LnP, Fedor. It's going to decision, but an EXCITING Decision, with Fedor's hand raised. Not counting the H-Bomb, but he's fight WAY over his ideal weight (190ish).

[brashleyholland]

Is it a done deal? Dan Henderson has publicly stated he's willing to fight at Heavyweight, which means this is Fedor's fight to lose. I also doubt Dan Henderson is giong to "tire", he's going to be fighting at 206, and said Fedor can come in the weight he pleases.

 

http://www.mma-core.com/images/fighters/full/Dan_Henderson_1000565.jpg

 

Not counting the H-Bomb, but he's fight WAY over his ideal weight (190ish).

 

I dunno about that, he's only fought 9 of his 35 career fights below 200lbs, and he's fought six as a HW. I'd say that his likely weight for this fight (in the 210 range) is going to be as idea as he can get.

 

If anyone is going to be disadvantaged by the 220lb 'gentleman's agreement', it's going to be the man who has never cut for a fight in his life.

 

Still, this is one I've wanted for years, can't wait for it to do down. Should be made official very, very soon...

[ampulator]

I dunno about that, he's only fought 9 of his 35 career fights below 200lbs, and he's fought six as a HW. I'd say that his likely weight for this fight (in the 210 range) is going to be as idea as he can get.

 

If anyone is going to be disadvantaged by the 220lb 'gentleman's agreement', it's going to be the man who has never cut for a fight in his life.

 

Still, this is one I've wanted for years, can't wait for it to do down. Should be made official very, very soon...

I think Henderson's best weight is actually 195. This is really just a guess, but he has issues cutting to 185, because, despite his height, weight, and size, he's pretty thick. But looking Feijao Calvacante, he looked a lot smaller, so he's too small for 205. He can certainly go UP to Light Heavyweight and Heavyweight easily, I don't doubt that, but what I do doubt those are actually his ideal weights. I recall Jason Miller claiming that Dan Henderson weighed around 197 when he trained with him. That being said, I'ld be shocked if Fedor decideds to cut any weight, unless it's a test cut to 205.

 

It always made me wonder it's too big of a cut for most fighters to go from 205 to 185.

[brashleyholland]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="ampulator" data-cite="ampulator" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I think Henderson's best weight is actually 195. </div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I dunno...I see no reason to guess arbitrary numbers for someones ideal weight, when there is no evidence of them having ever fought at those weights. Now I've obviously never weighed Hendo as he's stepped into the cage, but in my experience it's a very safe bet to assume that a man of his frame (and I'm judging this on having met him a few times) would weigh 200lbs+ for a 185lb fight. He does do a small cut to make 205...but it's not like he's a 230lb+ man cutting to 205 for a size advantage - like you said, he's much smaller than Cavalcante. Therefor it's safe to assume that his natural 'in shape' weight is somewhere just north of 205. </p><p> </p><p> I'll try and find out for sure...I know some people who know some people :-p</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>This is really just a guess, but he has issues cutting to 185, because, despite his height, weight, and size, he's pretty thick. </div></blockquote><p> </p><p> </p><p> He's 40...it wasn't a problem five years ago, but the body deteriorates in that respect massivly from the mid-30's onwards. It's not to say that you can't make the cut - anyone can to a point - more that you can't peak and function for long periods of time. The Shields fight taught him that for the first time. </p><p> </p><p> There's a good test you can do....buy a LOT of salt, run a really, really hot bath, as hot as you can stand, try and get a small sweat on, jump in the bath and sit in it for about 20 mins. Get out and try and do a short run or something. The difference between how you feel then, and how you feel normally will shock you...it basically simulates how you feel sucking an unnatural amount of water out of your system, and you'll know why Hendo is movin' on up! :-p </p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>But looking Feijao Calvacante, he looked a lot smaller</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> That man is HUGE. An unnaturally big 205lb'er</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>That being said, I'ld be shocked if Fedor decideds to cut any weight, unless it's a test cut to 205.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> From what I've heard, the reasons for the 'gentleman's agreement' are as follows</p><p> </p><p> - Hendo didn't want to beat Fedor at 205 or 215 only for people to say that the only reason he did it was that Fedor was sucked dry. </p><p> </p><p> - It will allow Fedor to practise cutting weight for the first time in his life. If it doesn't go well or he can't make it, the fight can still go ahead with no purse forfeits etc</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>It always made me wonder it's too big of a cut for most fighters to go from 205 to 185.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> It's not, for a 205lb man to make 185. But many guys who fight at 205 are much, much bigger than that. Last time I saw Rampage he was 260+...he's been as big as 280. Most of these guys diet down before or during their first few weeks of camp, then 'cut' only a reletively small amount of weight...there's a huge difference. If you walk at 240, you could be 'in shape' at 220, then cutting to 205 is no problem. But an extra 20lbs on top of that for guys like Rampage, Forrest, Jones, Bader etc is a no go.</p>

[brashleyholland]

<p>So BAMMA 6 is two weeks away...any UK people going? </p><p> </p><p>

Main Card (SyFy in the UK, <a href="http://www.BAMMA.tv" rel="external nofollow">http://www.BAMMA.tv</a> internationally)</p><p> </p><p>

Ninja Rua vs Tom 'Kong' Watson</p><p>

Frank Trigg vs John Phillips (one to watch gents) </p><p>

Matt Ewin (UK mainstay from the naughties) vs Ivan Salavery (replacing Phil Baroni)</p><p> </p><p>

Notable Prelims (BAMMA.tv in the UK and internationally)</p><p> </p><p>

JASON BALL vs LEONARDO SANTOS (Sengoku vet, sick grappler, once beat GSP)</p><p>

CHE MILLS (TUF vet) vs MARCIO CESAR</p><p>

SHANE OMER vs AARON WILKINSON (TUF and UFC vet)</p><p>

NEIL WAIN (UFC vet) vs MARCIN BARTKIEWICZ (my crazy, giant Polish friend)</p><p> </p><p>

16 fights in total, some well worth a watch!</p>

[ampulator]

It makes me wonder-do guys like Calvacante and Bader cut too much weight? People say the have a "cardio problem", but sometimes, especially Bader, looks like a dried up prune at 205. On top of that, he looks BIGGER than Velasquez. He gasses out way too fast.

[brashleyholland]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="ampulator" data-cite="ampulator" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>It makes me wonder-do guys like Calvacante and Bader cut too much weight? People say the have a "cardio problem", but sometimes, especially Bader, looks like a dried up prune at 205. On top of that, he looks BIGGER than Velasquez. He gasses out way too fast.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I guess it's a roll of the dice. They don't want to stay at HW because of guys like Carwin and Lesnar...so they gamble that the size and strenght advantage will outweigh the lack of cardio/durability.</p>

[ampulator]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="brashleyholland" data-cite="brashleyholland" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I guess it's a roll of the dice. They don't want to stay at HW because of guys like Carwin and Lesnar...so they gamble that the size and strenght advantage will outweigh the lack of cardio/durability.</div></blockquote><p> Do you think there should be stop-gap weight classes at some point? I mean, there's a medium gap between 170 and 185, a big gap between 185 and 205, and a huge gap 205 and 265.</p>

[brashleyholland]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="ampulator" data-cite="ampulator" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Do you think there should be stop-gap weight classes at some point? I mean, there's a medium gap between 170 and 185, a big gap between 185 and 205, and a huge gap 205 and 265.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Not really because it's all reletive. 20lbs is a hell off a lot when you weigh 135, but not so much if you weigh 260. There's no point having weight limits at 205, 220, 235, 250, 265 etc, because the difference doesn't mean *as much) as it does fifty to a hundred pounds south. Also there simply aren't enough 200lb+ high level athletes to warrent these divisions - check out any heavyweight fight at a regional show; by and large they're a joke.</p>

[OctoberRaven]

<p>Besides, if heavyweight was cut at 220 we wouldn't have guys like Tim Silvia and Kimbo Slice...</p><p> </p><p>

Wait, maybe it's a good thing after all....</p>

[ampulator]

Not really because it's all reletive. 20lbs is a hell off a lot when you weigh 135, but not so much if you weigh 260. There's no point having weight limits at 205, 220, 235, 250, 265 etc, because the difference doesn't mean *as much) as it does fifty to a hundred pounds south. Also there simply aren't enough 200lb+ high level athletes to warrent these divisions - check out any heavyweight fight at a regional show; by and large they're a joke.

That's a fair point, but what below 200+?

[brashleyholland]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="ampulator" data-cite="ampulator" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>That's a fair point, but what below 200+?</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Well, between from flyweight to light heavyweight there are seven weight divisions across 80lbs. I think that's enough for the time being, in terms of building strong divisions. If you throw another five divisions in there boxing style, it's just gonna get messy and confusing.</p>

[OctoberRaven]

<p>Honestly for me the big five (IE the ones in UFC pre-WEC merger) seem more than adequate.</p><p> </p><p>

I could see the lower weights being useful for women's MMA (which really doesn't have any regulated weight divisions yet AFAIK; the ones in place in for example Strikeforce were put there voluntarily)</p>

[Tag01]

I could not have less interest in expanding the weight classes. Having a weight class at every 2 or 3 pounds is one of many reasons boxing struggles. It makes weight classes and titles less meaningful, will create shallow divisions which will in turn increase catchweight fights, etc. Chopping up the weight classes didn't work for EliteXC, and I hope the UFC never does it.

[Daffanka]

Whenever there's enough athletes to support it I think 195 and 230/235 weight classes should be introduced to gulf some of the bigger gaps but otherwise I quite like the lack of super and junior prefixes to every single weight class.

[The Shape]

Edgar/Maynard is off as BOTH guys are injured. That really sucks.

[ampulator]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="The Shape" data-cite="The Shape" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Edgar/Maynard is off as BOTH guys are injured. That really sucks.</div></blockquote><p> Perhaps, perhaps not. The LW division is so big, the fact they are injured barely dents their LW division in terms of fights. This cause another backlog, though. *groan*I mean, honestly speaking, i thought June was a bit early to do it anyway.</p>

[brashleyholland]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="ampulator" data-cite="ampulator" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Perhaps, perhaps not. The LW division is so big, the fact they are injured barely dents their LW division in terms of fights. This cause another backlog, though. *groan*I mean, honestly speaking, i thought June was a bit early to do it anyway.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> The ballache it causes is with the Pettis situation though. Pettis has been told that he's still getting the Edgar/Maynard winner if he beats Guida - So does Pettis now sit on the sidelines for a year (assuming he beats Guida) or does he risk it for a biscuit and put his title shot on the line for a second time? </p><p> </p><p> By rights, he should be headlining a PPV against Edgar or Maynard this month, and making a ton of money for doing so. If he loses to Guida, or beats Guida and loses later in the year (you've got to assume that he'll be facing someone very good - Miller, Sherk, Henderson, even Gil Melendez) he may never get that oppertunity. </p><p> </p><p> Also sucks for both guys as neither will be covered by the new health insurance policy, which is, by the way, one of the most amazing things to ever happen in the history of MMA.</p>

[Fantabulous]

An early night for me on the 28th. Jackson/Hamill is one I'll be watching on FF.

[ampulator]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="brashleyholland" data-cite="brashleyholland" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>The ballache it causes is with the Pettis situation though. Pettis has been told that he's still getting the Edgar/Maynard winner if he beats Guida - So does Pettis now sit on the sidelines for a year (assuming he beats Guida) or does he risk it for a biscuit and put his title shot on the line for a second time? <p> </p><p> By rights, he should be headlining a PPV against Edgar or Maynard this month, and making a ton of money for doing so. If he loses to Guida, or beats Guida and loses later in the year (you've got to assume that he'll be facing someone very good - Miller, Sherk, Henderson, even Gil Melendez) he may never get that oppertunity. </p><p> </p><p> Also sucks for both guys as neither will be covered by the new health insurance policy, which is, by the way, one of the most amazing things to ever happen in the history of MMA.</p></div></blockquote><p> I agree with this, but I think Pettis should be in a "interim" title position at this point. But I wouldn't know how it work out, though. </p><p> </p><p> And who is and isnt' covered the new insurance policy? How does it work?</p>

[brashleyholland]

I agree with this, but I think Pettis should be in a "interim" title position at this point. But I wouldn't know how it work out, though.

 

I'm not a fan of interim belts. In this case especially, it doesn't solve anything because Pettis technically is an interim champ already, in the sense that he's got a title shot in the bag if he keeps winning and anyone who beats him is going to be elevated into that possition.

 

There are only two ways I'd do an interim title fight:

 

If Edgar is out 12 months (he isn't), I'd sling Pettis in against Maynard.

 

If both Edgar and Maynard are out for 12 months, I'd do Pettis vs Jim Miller.

 

And who is and isnt' covered the new insurance policy? How does it work?

 

It basically covers any accident or injury that occurs outside the cage (they already took care of injuries that took place inside the cage). And it covers EVERYTHING. So if a guy decides to go snowboarding a week before he's due to fight and breaks his leg, he's covered. If he tears a ligament in his knee grappling, he's covered. If he breaks his thumb trying to become the latest fighter to 'tweet' his way into a fight with Tito Ortiz, he's covered.

 

The only things not covered are things like colds, flu etc...and interestingly Staph.

 

The UFC are taking care of all the premiums for every fighter on their books and fighters are covered as long as they are under ZUFFA contracts. If they are cut after a loss, the policy covers all injuries sustained in the fight. They get $50,000's worth of coverage per year.

 

Edgar and Maynard aren't covered as the policy only kicks in from the 1st of June. D'Oh!