The Official MMA Discussion Thread

[damonster]

My problem is, he did it against his better judgment, and he did at poor timing. He did this joke after situation dies down, who gives a darn? But the situation is too much off a hot potato right now. He couldn't wait. He had to get it in on Davis. He had to say something where Phil Davis couldn't get rebuttal. And in the processpf trying to make a fool out of Davis, he makes himself look bad.

 

Timing, is everything. And this was wrong time to say it.

 

I agree with this, it's just the comment imo was funny, I've heard jokes about it before and thought it was funny. It's in the eye of the holder.

[bigtplaystew]

Amp, I get your point, but I infinitely disagree with it.

 

In a sport where men hit each other as hard as they can until one of them hopefully goes unconscious - OR they attempt to put as much pressure as possible on a limb or artery until they're so badly in danger of being injured they are forced to give up... I honestly don't think his words should even be discussed like this. It's a fight. He's pimping a fight. No big deal to me at all.

 

Rashad's not a politician. Or a teacher, or a pastor, or a leader in any definition of the word. He's a fighter saying crazy stuff. It's not a big deal whatsoever.

 

I assumed no one cares, but I guess you do. I just don't know how someone can be offended by such a silly thing as a joke like this but whatever. It's not up to me to tell people to be offended or not. I'm just surprised an MMA fan would be in any way shape or form offended by something like that. I feel like it's a sport where people shouldn't have to mince words.

[brashleyholland]

Yet again, you miss my point. My point isn't the joke is offensive, or that he should be allowed to say it.

 

I'm saying that he should nor do it right now. If did it later, let's say, when situation died down, so what? But right now the situation is too hot. Timing is everything. And there's a place and time for everything. His timing and the place he said it was, well, very imprudent.

 

You also forget, it's not the joke I'm harping over, it's when he said it. It's still too soon. And I'm not being "PC" about it, either, it's about patience.

 

As Hypocrite, too be human is to be a hypocrite. Humans do many hypocritical things. Sometimes, even necessary hypocritical things. But more important, that has nothing to do with what I said. The problem ultimately isn't the joke. The problem isn't PC. The problem is timing. Too soon, as practical matter. Evans thought he knew what he was doing (I'm pretty sure of that), and this wasn't so off "mistake" he did, and while he shouldn't be punished for it, he totally said it the wrong time. Should he be allowed? Well, as dumb and disgusting as it was, yes. Should he have said the time he said? He certainly should have been allowed, but it was too soon, because situation is too hot.

 

People should be allowed to say almost anything (you can't yell fire in a crowded room, that's a US Supreme standard) for clear-cut safety reasons, but 99% is allowed. And that includes Evans's comments. However, just because you can saying, doesn't mean you can say anything at anytime.

 

So just to be clear, if he'd made a joke about a news story of kids being asaaulted that broke a couple of years ago, that'd have been totally cool, right?

 

Can we all drop this now anyway? Gone past the point of MMA and I dont want to dicuss it here anymore.

[ampulator]

Amp, I get your point, but I infinitely disagree with it.

 

In a sport where men hit each other as hard as they can until one of them hopefully goes unconscious - OR they attempt to put as much pressure as possible on a limb or artery until they're so badly in danger of being injured they are forced to give up... I honestly don't think his words should even be discussed like this. It's a fight. He's pimping a fight. No big deal to me at all.

 

Rashad's not a politician. Or a teacher, or a pastor, or a leader in any definition of the word. He's a fighter saying crazy stuff. It's not a big deal whatsoever.

 

I assumed no one cares, but I guess you do. I just don't know how someone can be offended by such a silly thing as a joke like this but whatever. It's not up to me to tell people to be offended or not. I'm just surprised an MMA fan would be in any way shape or form offended by something like that. I feel like it's a sport where people shouldn't have to mince words.

 

Look, especially because he's fighter, AND not some who normally spouts that kind of stuff, he needed to narrowly tailor it to the sport, and not be off topic. And credit needs to be given Evans, because he's smart and calculated man. He didn't say this off the top of his head, he's too smart and too careful for that. He was saving it up for the ultimate trashtalk smackdown on Davis. He didn't "shoot from the hip", or say it from "the heart". He did this intentionally, probably because he knew Davis is from Penn State, and probably expected a more postive, or maybe less negative, response.

 

Have you read on the issues on Penn State? It's messed up. But that doesn't preclude from jokes, to be fair. But timing of the joke? Yeah, it was the wrong time. It's not that he should say it, it that he shouldn't said it the time he said it. And at the time same, there shouldn't be any formal actions against Evans either. None whatsoever.

 

But the bad heat he's getting? You reap what you sow. He deserves a large part of it. But who doesn't deserve this heat? Davis, and the UFC.

 

So just to be clear, if he'd made a joke about a news story of kids being asaaulted that broke a couple of years ago, that'd have been totally cool, right?

 

Can we all drop this now anyway? Gone past the point of MMA and I dont want to dicuss it here anymore.

 

It wouldn't been totally cool, but Comedians have joked about worse. It's the nature of Comedy. But it would have removed much of the emotions from it, and people can see it from an outside view, rather than inside view.

 

As for discussing it *shrug*. I just want people to understand why other people will have a problem with what he said. I think it's a rather sensitive situation for Penn State to be discussed very carefully anyway, and if we don't have to discuss it, that's fine with me.

[bigtplaystew]

Amp, we're going to have to simply agree to disagree on a few things here, but I'm going to say my piece anyway.

 

1) It's not up to you or anyone else to decide WHEN it's o.k. to make a joke about something. He made a joke. People have to accept it the way they do. Some will laugh. Some will be offended. Some won't care one way or the other. It's not a big deal to me. It is to you. Neither is really right or wrong. But who makes this timeline? I guess it's up to each individual to take a joke in stride naturally. I didn't even think anything of it when I first heard it. But I'm a fan of some pretty filthy comedy and it's just not in my nature to be offended by something so silly as what he said.

 

2) I don't think he needs to keep his comments narrow at all. He's a dude with a mic and can say what he wants. I like guys who say crazy things. I'm a pro wrestling fan so the MMA guys like him, Sonnen, Tito, even Dana, are extremely entertaining to me. And what he said kinda was a narrowly directed comment made right to his opponent. It was DIRECTLY related to the fight. It was a taunt to Davis. And extremely obvious one at that. He didn't stop the press conference and say, "ohh I have a joke on the penn state thing you guys will love to hear." It WAS in the heat of the moment and it WAS part of a conversation about the fight. Now whether he'd thought of it before hand and decided to use it in that moment is a different story. We'll agree that it's almost too good to just come out. But Rashad's been on Opie and Anthony ( a nation wide comedy show on Sirius/XM satellite radio in the states and canada) and was a pretty funny dude off the cuff. So I wouldn't be shocked if he really did just say it off the top of his head.

[ampulator]

Amp, we're going to have to simply agree to disagree on a few things here, but I'm going to say my piece anyway.

 

1) It's not up to you or anyone else to decide WHEN it's o.k. to make a joke about something. He made a joke. People have to accept it the way they do. Some will laugh. Some will be offended. Some won't care one way or the other. It's not a big deal to me. It is to you. Neither is really right or wrong. But who makes this timeline? I guess it's up to each individual to take a joke in stride naturally. I didn't even think anything of it when I first heard it. But I'm a fan of some pretty filthy comedy and it's just not in my nature to be offended by something so silly as what he said.

 

2) I don't think he needs to keep his comments narrow at all. He's a dude with a mic and can say what he wants. I like guys who say crazy things. I'm a pro wrestling fan so the MMA guys like him, Sonnen, Tito, even Dana, are extremely entertaining to me. And what he said kinda was a narrowly directed comment made right to his opponent. It was DIRECTLY related to the fight. It was a taunt to Davis. And extremely obvious one at that. He didn't stop the press conference and say, "ohh I have a joke on the penn state thing you guys will love to hear." It WAS in the heat of the moment and it WAS part of a conversation about the fight. Now whether he'd thought of it before hand and decided to use it in that moment is a different story. We'll agree that it's almost too good to just come out. But Rashad's been on Opie and Anthony ( a nation wide comedy show on Sirius/XM satellite radio in the states and canada) and was a pretty funny dude off the cuff. So I wouldn't be shocked if he really did just say it off the top of his head.

I think you are both wrong and right on #1. For one thing, you are right, no one determines timing. But timing is determined. By what, who? Well, it depends. This is organic. And his timing was bad. It's not matter of morality, but praticality. For a joke, you want the least amount of negative reaction and the maximum amount of laughter. And quite frankly, he did it a time where he would have gotten a mostly negative reaction. If not many comedians are even joking about this yet, its good indication of timing. They got instincts for it.

 

And the thing is, on #2, Sonnen and Tito go so over-the-top, you have to dismiss what they say as jokes. They intended them to be that way. Dana has rarely said anything as imprudent as Evans did today (and normally, Evans wouldn't be so imprudent). The way and time Evans said it, it wasn't good.

 

Like I said what he said isn't ultimately the problem. People have tweeted worse. People have said worse online. But it's mostly a problem of timing. If he wanted to be funny or be a good jab at Davis, it backfired in the worst ways possible.

[bigtplaystew]

Well it FOR SURE did not generate positive attention for the fight. No one can sit here and defend it like, "Well I thought it was a wonderful thing to say!". Only a maniac would have that opinion haha.

 

I just think he said it, it's there. I wish people didn't make a big deal out of it. To me, it's not a big thing. It was a funny little jab at Davis and I think had he said it in the gym, he'd have gotten a crazy laugh. He didn't though, he said it and ALOT of people heard it. A few were laughing. Many more probably weren't. So I see your point. I just have my own thoughts like I said.

 

Davis shouldn't be dogging Rashad's chin anyway. The dude's faced some pretty heavy hitters in his career. I sure hope he's not going to try to stand and bang with Rashad as I doubt that'd be a good strategy for him. He probably won't though. Just really trash talking more than anything else.

[ampulator]

Well it FOR SURE did not generate positive attention for the fight. No one can sit here and defend it like, "Well I thought it was a wonderful thing to say!". Only a maniac would have that opinion haha.

 

I just think he said it, it's there. I wish people didn't make a big deal out of it. To me, it's not a big thing. It was a funny little jab at Davis and I think had he said it in the gym, he'd have gotten a crazy laugh. He didn't though, he said it and ALOT of people heard it. A few were laughing. Many more probably weren't. So I see your point. I just have my own thoughts like I said.

 

Davis shouldn't be dogging Rashad's chin anyway. The dude's faced some pretty heavy hitters in his career. I sure hope he's not going to try to stand and bang with Rashad as I doubt that'd be a good strategy for him. He probably won't though. Just really trash talking more than anything else.

I can agree with most of this. I don't think Evans had a weak chin. He just had a bad gameplan against Machida, AND Machida was a Man on a Mission in that fight. He was going to try to finish Evans.

 

On thinly-related news... the UFC has released Miguel Torres. Now that's just harsh.

[jesterx7769]

The most disturbing part is that Rashad wants to have sex with Davis in the shower

[ampulator]

The most disturbing part is that Rashad wants to have sex with Davis in the shower

...now THAT's funny.

[bigtplaystew]

Yea, man. Machida caught the man with a sick counter strike. That stuff happens in MMA. Rashad's only had it happen to him once so his chin wouldn't be a target of insults if I were the one dishing them out.

 

Both guys have great wrestling skills. Davis' has been more flashy and seems to stand out more, but Rashad is seemingly more dynamic in his skill set and is also far more tested. I'm surprised they're going for this one on Fox though as it probably won't be an exciting strike-fest that most casual fans would want to look for.

[damonster]

So I guess torres is cut now because of his comment.

[jesterx7769]

WHOA! I call total BULL on this one.

 

Torres quotes a show about a "rape van" and gets fired before getting to explain that it was just a quote.

 

Rashad makes a joke about raping little kids DURING a press conference and it gets shrugged off!?

 

I don't mean to argue about Rashad's comments like the above posters but the unequal treatment is TOTAL bull, TOTAL. Nothing should have happened to Torres.

[bigtplaystew]

Especially since Dana always says he doesn't police what fighters say. Apparently, he does.

[ampulator]

WHOA! I call total BULL on this one.

 

Torres quotes a show about a "rape van" and gets fired before getting to explain that it was just a quote.

 

Rashad makes a joke about raping little kids DURING a press conference and it gets shrugged off!?

 

I don't mean to argue about Rashad's comments like the above posters but the unequal treatment is TOTAL bull, TOTAL. Nothing should have happened to Torres.

I agree. But I think there's also some miscommunication here. Torres quotes a joke from a TV and "seems unrepentant". Except it seems Dana only knows it's a joke, but doesn't seem to know it's quote from a TV.

[jesterx7769]

I agree. But I think there's also some miscommunication here. Torres quotes a joke from a TV and "seems unrepentant". Except it seems Dana only knows it's a joke, but doesn't seem to know it's quote from a TV.

 

watched the AOL interview and while I'm almost always on Dana side (compared to those who hate him on everything) he starts the interviewing saying "how I handle things is i get them on the phone and hear their explanatino" then he goes on to say he didn't talk to Miguel, that someone else did and what came back was that he did it as a joke. Ummm so why didn't you talk to him? Why not wait and talk to him tomorrow why the rush to fire him now? Then once again he talks about how he understands how Rashard did it and was just taking a jab at Penn state and get under Davis' skin.

 

So to make it clear future UFC fighters, do NOT joke about rape. That is disturbing. HOWEVER if you are doing it to create a rivalry with your opponent and hype the fight, thumbs up.

[ampulator]

watched the AOL interview and while I'm almost always on Dana side (compared to those who hate him on everything) he starts the interviewing saying "how I handle things is i get them on the phone and hear their explanatino" then he goes on to say he didn't talk to Miguel, that someone else did and what came back was that he did it as a joke. Ummm so why didn't you talk to him? Why not wait and talk to him tomorrow why the rush to fire him now? Then once again he talks about how he understands how Rashard did it and was just taking a jab at Penn state and get under Davis' skin.

 

So to make it clear future UFC fighters, do NOT joke about rape. That is disturbing. HOWEVER if you are doing it to create a rivalry with your opponent and hype the fight, thumbs up.

Exactly. Which is why I don't think Dana heard the whole story. The only serious difference was both Forrest and Rashad seemed "repentant" in Dana's eyes, and Torres gave Dana excuse to fire someone as an example.

[Zoloftjunkie]

This makes me wonder if he Torres was on thin ice anyway.

[Fantabulous]

Apparently, being on network TV makes it more prudent to come down on your employees when they put rape jokes on social media sites, especially when there moral clauses on your contract with the network and powerful groups already have you in their line-of-fire, wanting to take you down. Who would have thought it, huh?

 

I have no sympathy with Torres, at all. You've got to realize that not everybody is going to find such a joke funny, and when you make a joke like that public, you live with the consequences. Is it fair that Torres is cut while others aren't? Probably not, but they weren't dumb enough to put in Twitter, where they can't fall back on the excuse of getting caught up in the moment of hyping a fight.

[ampulator]

Apparently, being on network TV makes it more prudent to come down on your employees when they put rape jokes on social media sites, especially when there moral clauses on your contract with the network and powerful groups already have you in their line-of-fire, wanting to take you down. Who would have thought it, huh?

 

I have no sympathy with Torres, at all. You've got to realize that not everybody is going to find such a joke funny, and when you make a joke like that public, you live with the consequences. Is it fair that Torres is cut while others aren't? Probably not, but they weren't dumb enough to put in Twitter, where they can't fall back on the excuse of getting caught up in the moment of hyping a fight.

It's not a matter of feeling sorry, it's that they needed to make an example out of someone, and, unfortunately for Torres, he gave them one. Torres quotes a joke from a TV show, and then "seems unrepentant", in Dana's eyes, but apparently, he heard this information second-hand when he asked someone else to check in with Torres. He didn't hear the full story, I think. Forrest makes a similiar mistake, but gets off the hook because Dana sought him out. Rashad makes a reference to Penn State on FOOTAGE, and he gets off the hook because Dana also sought him out personally for an explanation.

 

There's miscommunication here. Torres didn't just say it was a joke-it was a joke he quoted from a TV show. Dana claims that he had someone else, not himself, check with Torres, and Torres said it was a joke. There is no mention of quoting from a TV show. And if Dana didn't hear the full story, it sounded like Torres was unrepentant.

 

This seems like a case of miscommunication here.

[damonster]

WHOA! I call total BULL on this one.

 

Torres quotes a show about a "rape van" and gets fired before getting to explain that it was just a quote.

 

Rashad makes a joke about raping little kids DURING a press conference and it gets shrugged off!?

 

I don't mean to argue about Rashad's comments like the above posters but the unequal treatment is TOTAL bull, TOTAL. Nothing should have happened to Torres.

 

I agree 100% it cus Evans is a tuf winner and is a top level fighter, unlike Torres. It's superstar treatment, every sports has it.

[bigtplaystew]

To be fair, there IS a difference in money making power between Torres and Rashad. Rashad has headlined and sold some of the biggest PPVs in the sport. Torres... well he's 2-1 in the UFC. He... USED to be awesome...

[jesterx7769]

Apparently, being on network TV makes it more prudent to come down on your employees when they put rape jokes on social media sites, especially when there moral clauses on your contract with the network and powerful groups already have you in their line-of-fire, wanting to take you down. Who would have thought it, huh?

 

I have no sympathy with Torres, at all. You've got to realize that not everybody is going to find such a joke funny, and when you make a joke like that public, you live with the consequences. Is it fair that Torres is cut while others aren't? Probably not, but they weren't dumb enough to put in Twitter, where they can't fall back on the excuse of getting caught up in the moment of hyping a fight.

 

Um so how do you explain Rashad? It's the inconsistentcy that ticks me off, not the firing or unfiring. Rashad gets off with a warning then Torres is not suspended or fined but fired.

[ampulator]

Um so how do you explain Rashad? It's the inconsistentcy that ticks me off, not the firing or unfiring. Rashad gets off with a warning then Torres is not suspended or fined but fired.

Dana thought he needed to make an example out of someone quickly, and without fully understanding Torres explanation, decided it like *that*. He doesn't know the whole story.

[damonster]

Dana white should have pushed his pause button and think, "is this a bad idea to do?" and go with the best answer.