The Official MMA Discussion Thread

[brashleyholland]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="TheKenwyne" data-cite="TheKenwyne" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I read that though they both train with Golden Glory they have never actually sparred together - they train with different parts of the camp. Though I guess the management could've had a word in their ears for this.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I know they trained together for a while, I've seen them...this is going back a good ten years or so though when they were both in Breda. They both worked with the GG jiu-jitsu coach, Martijn de Jong for a bit. But yeah, now I think about it, Semmy won't have trained with the Cor Hemmers (Muay Thai) students all that much. </p><p> </p><p> Still, it'll be an interesting fight if it happens and AA still has some gas left in the tank. I get the feeling that Spong is going to be on his bike in their fight. </p><p> </p><p> The trick with Schilt is to head-hunt from the get go...problem being, that gameplan is almost certain suicide against a fighter like him. Still, if the Reem can catch him with a bomb, who knows. Really looking forward to the Best 8 this year!!</p>

[TheKenwyne]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="brashleyholland" data-cite="brashleyholland" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I know they trained together for a while, I've seen them...this is going back a good ten years or so though when they were both in Breda. They both worked with the GG jiu-jitsu coach, Martijn de Jong for a bit. But yeah, now I think about it, Semmy won't have trained with the Cor Hemmers (Muay Thai) students all that much. <p> </p><p> Still, it'll be an interesting fight if it happens and AA still has some gas left in the tank. I get the feeling that Spong is going to be on his bike in their fight. </p><p> </p><p> The trick with Schilt is to head-hunt from the get go...problem being, that gameplan is almost certain suicide against a fighter like him. Still, if the Reem can catch him with a bomb, who knows. Really looking forward to the Best 8 this year!!</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I'm with you on that point. Next few months look great for MMA - Brocktober, GSP-Koscheck 2, Dynamite's always a laugh and the two K-1 GP finals. And on the slightly less exciting side of things there are 3 other UFC shows, a Sengoku card and Strikeforce, notably with Diaz-Noons II this coming weekend.</p><p> </p><p> Plus the UFC in London - can't afford tickets for the show but I've got hold of some for the expo - should be good fun <img alt=":)" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/smile.png.142cfa0a1cd2925c0463c1d00f499df2.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p> EDIT: Oh and Bellator and Aoki fighting for DEEP. Forgot those.</p>

[brashleyholland]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="TheKenwyne" data-cite="TheKenwyne" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I'm with you on that point. Next few months look great for MMA - Brocktober, GSP-Koscheck 2, Dynamite's always a laugh and the two K-1 GP finals. And on the slightly less exciting side of things there are 3 other UFC shows, a Sengoku card and Strikeforce, notably with Diaz-Noons II this coming weekend.<p> </p><p> EDIT: Oh and Bellator and Aoki fighting for DEEP. Forgot those.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Yeah, busy times. I'm really looking forward to 120, some quality fights on that card. Looking forward to seeing how Warburton and Big Rob Broughton do on the big show. </p><p> </p><p> Hardy/Condit is gonna be a war as well. </p><p> </p><p> Another 'off the radar' one I'm looking forward to is 'Judo' Jim Wallhead's Bellator début on the 14th of Oct.</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Plus the UFC in London - can't afford tickets for the show but I've got hold of some for the expo - should be good fun <img alt=":)" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/smile.png.142cfa0a1cd2925c0463c1d00f499df2.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> If you're around for the Expo, get Dana on twitter. There aren't many unsold tickets but he'll have <strong>some</strong> and will be giving them away at some point. Never know, you might get lucky <img alt=";)" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/wink.png.686f06e511ee1fbf6bdc7d82f6831e53.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[Gabbo]

<p>I've recently added WEC to my MMA diet and I'm just curious to the worth of WEC's LW division. I don't quite understand how it works so could someone fill me in.</p><p> </p><p>

Just a pile of thoughts going through my head, probably silly questions but here goes. How good are guys like Henderson, Cerrone, Varner compared to Florian, Edgar, Penn and Maynard? Is WEC's division generally regarded as a 2nd rate LW division? Do the LW guys in the UFC respect them much? Why don't the top guys in WEC want to test themselves in the more prestigious UFC LW division? Why don't the mid-level guys in UFC drop to WEC, guys like Griffin, Guida, Diaz etc, and become champions? When LW fighters are approached are they given the choice of joining the UFC or WEC, or is it a separate scouting system? Does the UFC consider WEC's LW's as equals to the UFC's? Is it used as a developmental division or just for never-will-be's?</p><p> </p><p>

Probably more in my head but I just need to unload and get an idea of the point of this division and where it stands in relation to industry respect.</p>

[brashleyholland]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Gabbo" data-cite="Gabbo" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div><p> </p><p> How good are guys like Henderson, Cerrone, Varner compared to Florian, Edgar, Penn and Maynard? Is WEC's division generally regarded as a 2nd rate LW division? </p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> The short answer is that as a division, WEC 155 isn't as deep or talent rich as UFC 155. Guys like Ben Henderson are being given time to develop and are very much on the UFC's radar. Same for Jose Aldo. </p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Do the LW guys in the UFC respect them much? </div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Very much so. Many of these guys train with UFC guys. Ben Henderson, for example, was brought in by BJ Penn to help with his wrestling. </p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Why don't the top guys in WEC want to test themselves in the more prestigious UFC LW division? </div></blockquote><p> </p><p> They do, but there are only so many places available. The UFC has hundreds of fighters under contract and struggles to get them all fights. WEC is a great 'holding pen' for guys. They can make decent scratch, fight three or four times a year and are still under contract to Zuffa, which has its benefits. </p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Why don't the mid-level guys in UFC drop to WEC, guys like Griffin, Guida, Diaz etc, and become champions? </div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Money. WEC is on Versus. The last show did less than 500,000 viewers. The problem is, fighters rarely get their walk-out televised on Versus, which is where the big sponsor money comes from in terms of hats and shirts. A Clay Guida can fight on PPV or main event a Fight Night with a walk-out, and get paid more. Also, the purses and bonuses for UFC fights for the likes of Guida, Griffin etc are more than they could expect from the WEC. </p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>When LW fighters are approached are they given the choice of joining the UFC or WEC, or is it a separate scouting system? </div></blockquote><p> </p><p> It's pretty much separate, but at the same time, the UFC is top of the pecking order when it comes to hot prospects and big stars. The main difference is that the WEC has the luxury of being able to sign 5-0 prospects without anyone batting an eyelid. A lot of 'up and comers' see the WEC as a better option, as it's not as 'sink or swim' as the UFC's 155lb shark tank. </p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Does the UFC consider WEC's LW's as equals to the UFC's? Is it used as a developmental division or just for never-will-be's?</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> See above really. In some cases yes, in other no. There is a big announcement coming soon regarding the WEC though....</p>

[RingofHonorGuard]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Gabbo" data-cite="Gabbo" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I've recently added WEC to my MMA diet and I'm just curious to the worth of WEC's LW division. I don't quite understand how it works so could someone fill me in.<p> </p><p> Just a pile of thoughts going through my head, probably silly questions but here goes. How good are guys like Henderson, Cerrone, Varner compared to Florian, Edgar, Penn and Maynard? Is WEC's division generally regarded as a 2nd rate LW division? Do the LW guys in the UFC respect them much? Why don't the top guys in WEC want to test themselves in the more prestigious UFC LW division? Why don't the mid-level guys in UFC drop to WEC, guys like Griffin, Guida, Diaz etc, and become champions? When LW fighters are approached are they given the choice of joining the UFC or WEC, or is it a separate scouting system? Does the UFC consider WEC's LW's as equals to the UFC's? Is it used as a developmental division or just for never-will-be's?</p><p> </p><p> Probably more in my head but I just need to unload and get an idea of the point of this division and where it stands in relation to industry respect.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Zuffa tries to keep WEC as a separate promotion as much as possible, thus why it features 135, 145, and 155 lb fighters. Out of all the divisions in the UFC, the lightweight roster is the biggest by far. A lot of the WEC's talent could easily be in the UFC but there's just not space. I think Donald Cerrone would do the best out of any of the WEC's lightweights in the UFC, as I truly believe he's the most polished guy they've got. Varner is wasting away his career staying with Arizona Combat, who focus primarily on wrestling. Henderson is like a lightweight version of Joe Warren, with more polished striking. But yeah, WEC does come off as a minor league to UFC in a lot of ways.</p>

[Daffanka]

Kraus is one of the weaker competitors.

 

I don't agree with this at all. I'm a big Kraus fan and the guy has massive power in his hands and unless he's fighting the excellence of execution in Petrosyan or someone like Souwer or Buakaw I'd pick him over most people. He's been on a tear in between his Petrosyan loss and I think it's a shame those two are fighting so early since I'd love to see him rematch Zambidis or Sato.

 

The trick with Schilt is to head-hunt from the get go...problem being, that gameplan is almost certain suicide against a fighter like him. Still, if the Reem can catch him with a bomb, who knows. Really looking forward to the Best 8 this year!!

 

Well you could constantly pressure him and drag it into the later rounds like Aerts did but to be honest there's no one around that's got his level of ring generalship or solid defense to pull that off. Out of the guys in the final 8 Overeem is definitely the guy to beat Schilt but I'm a bit worried about Overeem's tendency to simply cover up when he gets punched since he leaves himself open to Schilt's kicks.

 

K-1/kickboxing is the last vestige of the old days when you'd get an MMA card every four months and it'd feel really special and big. That said, I'd kill for some sort of B-league kickboxing promotion where they put on a fairly constant stream of lower to mid level cards. The closest we have is It's Showtime! but they have an internet PPV ($10, really good value!) about two or three times a year and that's not enough.

[brashleyholland]

Bad news for K-1 - Their best card in recent memory bombed in the ratings in Japan, coming in last place out of the four major networks for it's timeslot with a 10.0 rating. By comparison, Dream 16, a show with practically zero domestic marketing, did an 11.9. The Final 16 last year did a 13.2. It had the benefit of Hari and Bonjasky, but even so, this number is horrible.

[ampulator]

<p>Honestly speaking, it seems like MMA is down in Japan in general, from what I heard. It's shocking, really. I always thought that MMA in Japan would overtake their pro-wrestling before it happened in the USA. Seems like I was wrong.</p><p> </p><p>

What makes Japanese fans tick?</p>

[Daffanka]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="ampulator" data-cite="ampulator" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Honestly speaking, it seems like MMA is down in Japan in general, from what I heard. It's shocking, really. I always thought that MMA in Japan would overtake their pro-wrestling before it happened in the USA. Seems like I was wrong.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Pro wrestling in Japan is nearly 60 years old, it's going to outlive MMA. The shift from Puroresu to MMA came because all the big Japanese wrestling stars began to fade in the late 90's/early 2000 which is when Pride really hit its stride with Sakuraba vs. the Gracies, which was built off Takada vs. Rickson which is probably one of the most significant fights in MMA history.</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>What makes Japanese fans tick?</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> It's complex but the simple answer is successful, charismatic stars.</p><p> </p><p> The silver lining is that for Japanese MMA/kickboxing to be successful it can't appeal to just fight fans, it needs to appeal to casual fans who aren't interested in the fights as much as they are interested in the fighters.</p><p> </p><p> These kind of fighters range from Sakuraba, a hard working common man who looks to restore honor to Japan by defeating the Gracies to Bob Sapp who Brashley told me was essentially seen as a comic book character. There's guys like Yoshida and Ishii who were olympic judo gold medalists who people were interested in as long as they kept winning, or a guy like Masato who's got superstar pretty boy looks.</p><p> </p><p> Someone like Aoki or Kawajiri who I believe are seen as nothing more than thugs are never going to be the kind of stars Sakuraba and Masato were.</p><p> </p><p> Unfortunately during the buffet days Japanese MMA promoters and managers got increasingly lazy and didn't bother to search for the next breakout star. Ishii was the last big hope and his poor showing against Yoshida put the nail in his coffin as a marketable Japanese heavyweight using Japanese judo.</p><p> </p><p> Right now they're just running in constantly shrinking circles with the guys they've got desperately searching for any kind of marketable guy which even if they find are going to completely wreck by immediately putting him in big matches against guys he won't be prepared to fight (see Kazuyuki Miyata.)</p><p> </p><p> The worst part is that almost all Japanese MMA fighters have got leeches for managers who are intrinsically linked to a promotion. If Kawajiri had a competent, unbiased manager we would've seen him Crush people in the UFC after Pride collapsed.</p><p> </p><p> At least we might see Omigawa in the WEC soon. <img alt=":(" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/frown.png.e6b571745a30fe6a6f2e918994141a47.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p> Also an open question; why wasn't Kikuno a bigger deal? He's a karateka and a real nice and hard working guy. Was it the loss to Alvarez due to stupid Japanese match making?</p>

[TheKenwyne]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="brashleyholland" data-cite="brashleyholland" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div><p> If you're around for the Expo, get Dana on twitter. There aren't many unsold tickets but he'll have <strong>some</strong> and will be giving them away at some point. Never know, you might get lucky <img alt=";)" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/wink.png.686f06e511ee1fbf6bdc7d82f6831e53.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> There are tickets left but they're the ludicrously expensive ones. And don't worry, I've got my phone a nice internet plan and I shall be checking twitter eeeevery 5 minutes <img alt=":D" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[ampulator]

Pro wrestling in Japan is nearly 60 years old, it's going to outlive MMA. The shift from Puroresu to MMA came because all the big Japanese wrestling stars began to fade in the late 90's/early 2000 which is when Pride really hit its stride with Sakuraba vs. the Gracies, which was built off Takada vs. Rickson which is probably one of the most significant fights in MMA history.

 

 

 

It's complex but the simple answer is successful, charismatic stars.

 

The silver lining is that for Japanese MMA/kickboxing to be successful it can't appeal to just fight fans, it needs to appeal to casual fans who aren't interested in the fights as much as they are interested in the fighters.

 

These kind of fighters range from Sakuraba, a hard working common man who looks to restore honor to Japan by defeating the Gracies to Bob Sapp who Brashley told me was essentially seen as a comic book character. There's guys like Yoshida and Ishii who were olympic judo gold medalists who people were interested in as long as they kept winning, or a guy like Masato who's got superstar pretty boy looks.

 

Someone like Aoki or Kawajiri who I believe are seen as nothing more than thugs are never going to be the kind of stars Sakuraba and Masato were.

 

Unfortunately during the buffet days Japanese MMA promoters and managers got increasingly lazy and didn't bother to search for the next breakout star. Ishii was the last big hope and his poor showing against Yoshida put the nail in his coffin as a marketable Japanese heavyweight using Japanese judo.

 

Right now they're just running in constantly shrinking circles with the guys they've got desperately searching for any kind of marketable guy which even if they find are going to completely wreck by immediately putting him in big matches against guys he won't be prepared to fight (see Kazuyuki Miyata.)

 

The worst part is that almost all Japanese MMA fighters have got leeches for managers who are intrinsically linked to a promotion. If Kawajiri had a competent, unbiased manager we would've seen him Crush people in the UFC after Pride collapsed.

 

At least we might see Omigawa in the WEC soon.

 

Also an open question; why wasn't Kikuno a bigger deal? He's a karateka and a real nice and hard working guy. Was it the loss to Alvarez due to stupid Japanese match making?

Here's the thing, though. I always thought Japan was the going to become THE place for MMA.

 

Here's the thing, though. Why would the japanese like Bob Sapp? He's incompetent. I always thought the Japanese preferred more sport-like individuals, where "amirickuns" (I am one, too) liked the Cult aspect.

 

It just seems... odd.

[Daffanka]

Here's the thing, though. I always thought Japan was the going to become THE place for MMA.

 

It won't. For all of Japan's technological achievements that still haven't grasped the finer points of supply and demand and any sport industry is going to be a cyclical boom or bust one.

 

I mean there's always going to be a hardcore fanbase sustaining the smaller promotions like Shooto or Pancrase but the big money is all about the casual audience's interest.

 

Here's the thing, though. Why would the japanese like Bob Sapp? He's incompetent. I always thought the Japanese preferred more sport-like individuals, where "amirickuns" (I am one, too) liked the Cult aspect.

 

This is probably the biggest misconception about MMA.

 

Japan, as far as I can tell, doesn't actually care about the integrity of their sport. They paraded out a nonstop series of atrocious referee decisions to get Sapp some wins and he became a mega star. This is the example I always use but they banned multiple knees from the thai clinch in K-1 because Buakaw mauled Masato and Kohi with them.

 

Or just look at female MMA. It's a clear cut sign people don't know what they're talking about when they say female MMA in Japan gets a lot more respect. It's run by people who pride themselves on objectifying women, the match ups are pretty girl vs. can and the reason you see Megumi Fujii bust those awesome moves is because the fights get stood up within seconds.

 

Japanese MMA is all about the freakshows and nationalism. Sengoku tried to run a serious product with foreign fighters and they failed hard. Shooto are running a brilliant system to let prospects get experience in amateur fights before they step out to the big stage where they're constantly handed tough but not unfair fights. But it's too much of an actual sport to gain any significant popularity in Japan.

[ampulator]

It won't. For all of Japan's technological achievements that still haven't grasped the finer points of supply and demand and any sport industry is going to be a cyclical boom or bust one.

 

I mean there's always going to be a hardcore fanbase sustaining the smaller promotions like Shooto or Pancrase but the big money is all about the casual audience's interest.

 

 

 

This is probably the biggest misconception about MMA.

 

Japan, as far as I can tell, doesn't actually care about the integrity of their sport. They paraded out a nonstop series of atrocious referee decisions to get Sapp some wins and he became a mega star. This is the example I always use but they banned multiple knees from the thai clinch in K-1 because Buakaw mauled Masato and Kohi with them.

 

Or just look at female MMA. It's a clear cut sign people don't know what they're talking about when they say female MMA in Japan gets a lot more respect. It's run by people who pride themselves on objectifying women, the match ups are pretty girl vs. can and the reason you see Megumi Fujii bust those awesome moves is because the fights get stood up within seconds.

 

Japanese MMA is all about the freakshows and nationalism. Sengoku tried to run a serious product with foreign fighters and they failed hard. Shooto are running a brilliant system to let prospects get experience in amateur fights before they step out to the big stage where they're constantly handed tough but not unfair fights. But it's too much of an actual sport to gain any significant popularity in Japan.

Wow, that's drastically different from pro-wrestling to MMA, even when comparing pro-wrestling between MMA in the USA.

 

In pro-wrestling, there's a decent amount of successful "gaijin" (foreigners).

 

Here's one another question? Why do MMA fans favor one "foreigner" over another? Other than Bob Sapp, why dislike some but love others? In pro-wrestling, the reasons are pretty clear.

[Daffanka]

Wow, that's drastically different from pro-wrestling to MMA, even when comparing pro-wrestling between MMA in the USA.

 

In pro-wrestling, there's a decent amount of successful "gaijin" (foreigners).

 

During the plentiful days there were lots of successful gaijin like Nogueira, Cro Cop or Wanderlei but they were really more the product of an era rather than the ones who made it. It obviously helped that they all had defining traits (chin, left high kick, axe murdering.)

 

Japanese people can totally buy into gaijin, they just need to have some sort of character. Whether that's displayed in the ring or as a blatant stereotype in interviews is up to them.

 

It does bear mention that Bob Sapp was the most successful because of the way he carried himself (big black man acts like Japanese people think big black men act) which led to tons of commercial opportunities.

[ampulator]

During the plentiful days there were lots of successful gaijin like Nogueira, Cro Cop or Wanderlei but they were really more the product of an era rather than the ones who made it. It obviously helped that they all had defining traits (chin, left high kick, axe murdering.)

 

Japanese people can totally buy into gaijin, they just need to have some sort of character. Whether that's displayed in the ring or as a blatant stereotype in interviews is up to them.

 

It does bear mention that Bob Sapp was the most successful because of the way he carried himself (big black man acts like Japanese people think big black men act) which led to tons of commercial opportunities.

Japanese can sure be... eccentric. They take themselves seriously, but the way they view others in the world is very very... again, eccentric.

[brashleyholland]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="ampulator" data-cite="ampulator" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Here's the thing, though. I always thought Japan was the going to become THE place for MMA. </div></blockquote><p> </p><p> It did, and it was for a while. They paid more, had primetime exposure and massive corporate endorsements. Guys like Caol Uno have had their own ranges for massive sports brands like Nike and Addidas. </p><p> </p><p> Problem one was the corruption that runs rife through a lot of Japanese businesses, but particularly in the sports/entertainment/music businesses, finally catching up with them. Important figures in the fight game went to prison or exiled themselves, and a lot of power grabbing that was bad for business went on in their absence. Not to mention the Yakuza stuff being exposed in the nation press.</p><p> </p><p> Problem two was that the Japanese guys who brought in the TV ratings and ticket money were never really great fighters, or they were good but hung on too long: Takada, Ogawa, Sapp et al being the former and Sakuraba, Yoshida etc being the latter. These guys started to lose, killing their profitability. </p><p> </p><p> Japanese pro-wrestling was always most successful when it was "Japan standing up to and beating the foreigners", something that dates back to them being on the losing side of the second world war, which was a huge blow to their national pride/identity. Now that the Japanese fight game has nobody for the Japanese to get behind, and no TV/advertising money to back it, it's crumbling. </p><p> </p><p> The situation now can be compared to the early 00's UFC...MMA fans still watch, there are a few popular guys for the hardcore's to follow...but the mainstream fan base, and their money, isn't there. </p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Here's the thing, though. Why would the japanese like Bob Sapp? He's incompetent. I always thought the Japanese preferred more sport-like individuals, where "amirickuns" (I am one, too) liked the Cult aspect. </div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Political correctness in Japan is lagging behind much of the western world. Sapp's character was that of a wild, dim-witted, black savage. The appeal wasn't so much Sapp himself (although his massive charisma helped carry the character off), rather the idea of seeing this huge, beast of a man dropped right into the centre of their civilised culture, complete with growling, booming laughter and more! </p><p> </p><p> What will he do next? Bite the head off his opponent's action figure? Chase female Japanese TV presenters around a TV set like a caveman? Become uncontrollable in the ring? What will happen? Step right up! </p><p> </p><p> An even worse example is Bobby Ologun, a Nigerian who became a Japanese TV personality. His 'shtick' was that of a cloth-wearing, spear-throwing, uncivilised aboriginal savage, who was dragged right out of his jungle tribe and dropped into Japan for their amusement. It was horrible. </p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>It just seems... odd.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Here's just some of the guys who have been involved in just some of the most-watched fights in Japan....</p><p> </p><p> Dos Caras Jr </p><p> <span>http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:-g4RxQRq2Lk2GM:http://www.mmatko.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/dos.JPG&t=1</span></p><p> </p><p> Giant Silva and Minowa Man</p><p> <span>http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSBth9oKzuDwEC5Kr_Ent0n8lJ1-mW0L1agS4wRaSlv9jgjVfk&t=1&usg=__me3gozIjeMUZ3z2VLLLDDu2hou4=</span></p><p> </p><p> Ken Kaneko (actor, never fought before)</p><p> <span>http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS37foPrCLL6Bs7ZZJ6J9x9B-m5me4Jkmf9vj9XY0ZMhjcxbRg&t=1&usg=__sjXhf1-KySUYN3WgMcU9QWlq7Jc=</span></p><p> </p><p> Akebono</p><p> <span>http://www.synapticblur.com/pics/akebono.jpg</span></p><p> </p><p> I don't even know what this is...</p><p> <span>http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/articlefiles/7887-Sapp-versus-Mantaro.jpg</span></p><p> </p><p> <span>http://nightmareofbattle.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/20081222-00000012-spnavi-fight-view-000.jpg</span></p>

[brashleyholland]

Wow, that's drastically different from pro-wrestling to MMA, even when comparing pro-wrestling between MMA in the USA.

 

In pro-wrestling, there's a decent amount of successful "gaijin" (foreigners).

 

Here's one another question? Why do MMA fans favor one "foreigner" over another? Other than Bob Sapp, why dislike some but love others? In pro-wrestling, the reasons are pretty clear.

 

Like Daffanka said, there have been plenty of successful and popular foreign fighters in Japan over the years. A lot of it is to do with respect. Freakshow or legit, hardcore sports fan or casual observer, they respect the hell out of fighters over there. I've been to some big events in Japan, and the adulation and admiration for fighters is incredible.

 

Guys like Fedor, Cro Cop, Nogueira, Hansen, Wanderlei the Gracies...they fought their asses off, they won lots, they earned respect for being the best at what they do.

 

That's why, for example, at the Final 16 last weekend, when Jerome LeBanner walked out of the overtime round against the Japanese 'Ace' Kyotaro in protest against the judging, he raised his hand on the way into the back and the entire arena stood up and roared for him. They respect LeBanner.

 

Speaking of which, I'm loving the stories about LeBanner possibly fighting Ishii under K-1 rules at the WGP Final. There's popping a rating and then there's getting a valuable asset brutally beaten...my guess is that this will be changed to MMA rules really quickly, or that someone much smaller will be subbed in. Wonder what Cyril Adibi is up to these days....

[Daffanka]

http://i55.tinypic.com/9hjqly.jpg

 

Dustin Hazelett has gained quite a bit of weight.

[brashleyholland]

http://i55.tinypic.com/9hjqly.jpg

 

Dustin Hazelett has gained quite a bit of weight.

 

Or Santa Claus has lost some.

[brashleyholland]

Sean 'Big Sexy' McCorkle has been gracing the Underground with his awesome presence.

 

Check out this great post, answering some questions on what it's like for fighters at UFC events.

 

I've been getting a lot of different questions from some of you about the UFC, i.e. wanting behind the scenes info and things like that. So I figured since I am the most accessible and promising heavyweight in the division, I'd throw some random facts out there, and answer a few of your questions on this thread. But after I answer a few, the rest of you can F**K OFF!!!

 

Here they are in no particular order:

 

 

When you first arrive at the hotel, you are greeted by a UFC employee named "Burt" He's the black guy you see on stage at the weigh ins, and has been with the company since Zuffa purchased it. Burt is the coolest dude you'll ever meet in your life, and is your go to guy for everything from glove sizes, to your itinerary, to media relations, pretty much everything. He's also funnier than ****.

 

The UFC has a new policy where they are not tolerating anyone not making weight anymore. They're not giving you more time to make the weight, and might not let you fight at all if you don't make it the first time.

 

The UFC gives every fighter a per diem that is way more than you would spend on food even if you're paying for all your cornermen as well.

 

They also give you a gym bag full of free UFC stuff the contents of which has to be worth more than $1,000 retail.

 

I signed almost 200 UFC 119 posters when I first got there as did every other fighter, and they are given to sponsors as well as every fighter receiving one. I gave mine to one of my friends and now I regret it because that's pretty badass.

 

The photo shoot and video shoot is done at the hotel, and some really cool makeup artist with huge boobs puts glitter and oil on you.

 

The new ring girl is even hotter in person, and she has zero interest in me.

 

At the weigh in as I got off the scale, Dana said "Welcome to the UFC buddy" When Mark Hunt and I were doing the stare down, I said "You better not try to punch me in the face"

 

All of the fighters were able to warm up in the Octagon for an hour about 3 hours before the fights began. It was a little weird being in there at the same time with Mark Hunt, so to break the tension, I had my cornerman repeatedly warm up my arm by standing in the center of the cage with me, and raising it over and over again.

 

Anything else you b**ches want to know?

 

 

If you read the thread, there is tons of other great stuff in there, including this little gem...

 

You know you've made it as an MMA fighter when Ariel Helwani or Joe Rogan is standing next to you asking you questions.

 

And you know you've made it as an MMA journalist/commentator, when Sean McCorkle is standing next to you answering them.

 

http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=forum.posts&thread=1710123&page=1

[TheKenwyne]

Sean sounds like a great guy - I saw it on Bloody Elbow yesterday. I hope he continues to achieve success in his career - he looks a cut above the Matt Mitriones and Joey Beltrans of this world.

[Daffanka]

I think it's a sign that we'd rather discuss Brock's new beard rather than the Strikeforce card this Saturday.

 

It's not even bad card, I think Strikeforce has just dropped the ball tremendously on promoting it. Woodley - Galvao will easily be the most interesting fight but watching Nick get a reality check against a decent counter puncher with his sloppy boxing might also be fun.

 

Watching JZ lose is gonna suck though.

[ampulator]

I think it's a sign that we'd rather discuss Brock's new beard rather than the Strikeforce card this Saturday.

 

It's not even bad card, I think Strikeforce has just dropped the ball tremendously on promoting it. Woodley - Galvao will easily be the most interesting fight but watching Nick get a reality check against a decent counter puncher with his sloppy boxing might also be fun.

 

Watching JZ lose is gonna suck though.

Story of the century. On a more serious note, it's a much better card than last one, that's for sure. At least we won't get moronic showboating this time around.

[TheKenwyne]

Check out their youtube vids. They aren't actually that bad. But Diaz became a little less promotable after the 'Brawl'. The whole Cesar Gracie camp did.