~Montreal Aftermath: December 1997 Official Release~

[denzil85]

No worries Genadi, what I saw you say/do was nothing compared to what I've seen on other forums. Hence my vaguely amusing answer about you being my mod slave!

[Genadi]

Don't wanna nag on a subjective subject ...but just wanted to say the potentials on some guys seem off. I was just editting them all out and jotted down a couple that when written down next to each other don't make a lot of sense...

 

Ok I want to open up a discussion here about potentials if I may. This was a great point made my randomfreeze

 

I reviewed these settings and after some thought I think they're good for the mod and will explain why....

 

Bret Hart - Very Low (Many top guys in the business are actually set to this, so there is a pattern so probably a reason)

 

Most of the top guys in '98 didn't improve very much after that time was my thiking.

 

Bobby Duncum Jr. - Average

 

Should probably be lower, though he did improve a fair bit imo over the next few years.

 

Bobby Roode - Very Good

 

Alot of young guys (young in '97) have potentials like this. Roode for example debuted in '98 but was 21 that year. He was obviously still pretty green and imo didn't peak for at least 5 more years. That's why they have sub-par stats for the most part but Very Good potential. I think it works for the good of the mod but would like to hear peoples thoughts.

 

Charles Wright - Low

 

He was The Godfather soon after the mod starts and didn't get any better during his run, imo.

 

Chavo Guerrero Jr. - Low

 

Chavo was 28 in 1998 and again only imo had his best matches back then. He was a good worker back at that time but I don't think he improved much from '98 on.

 

Chris Hero - Excellent

 

Another young guy like Roode who debuted at a young age but didn't really get noticed or peak until years after. Hero in this case was 19 in 1998 when he debuted but his best years were definitely years in front of him as imo he has showed.

 

Colt Cabana - Very Good

 

See Roode & Hero

 

Droz - Average

 

Droz was 29 in '98 but a guy who I kind of put in the Batista basket, he may have been alot older then other guys with lower or equal potential but he only debuted a year before (in 1997). He was also a former NFL player which leads me to believe that had it not been for his injury he had the potential to improve a fair bit... or an average amount

 

Jay Lethal - Excellent

 

Debuted in 2001 at the age of 16, he's one of the best young workers and has been for the past few years imo. He wasn't straight away though.

 

Mike Sanders - Average

 

Debuted at a late age but imo he improved a great deal especially in ring over the years following.

 

Necro Butcher - Low

 

I don't think he improved much over the years.

 

Orlando Jones - Average

 

Should definitely be lower.

 

Rey Mysterio Jr. - Average

 

He was young (23 at the time) but he debuted at the age of 15 in 1989. He was definitely one of the best workers of his generation imo but he didn't improve a huge amount from '98 on. He had already won the Wrestling Observer Awards for Best Flying Wrestler (1995–1997) and Most Outstanding Wrestler (1996).

 

Rob Conway - Low

 

Debuted young with a decent amount of entertainment skills for a rookie and a great look. A young guy who never reached anywhere near the potential thought of him, imo.

 

Rob Van Dam - Low

 

RVD was relatively young at the time (27) but had been wrestling for 7 years prior (debuting in 1990). I've seen his work from '98 in ECW and it was awesome, apart from safety and pyschology I can't think of any other stats he improved in? If you see his stats in the mod you'll see they're almost good enough to be headlining in WCW and WWF already, which is where he was at, imo.

 

Sean Morley - Low

 

He was only 26 at the time but he'd already won the CMLL World Heavyweight Championship and raised many eyebrows in both WCW and WWF. His in ring stats were solid but not spectacular along with his entertainment skills. Despite the following years of working with the World's premiere promotion and it's workers Morley failed to get much better at all, he had some great momentum at times after some big wins against huge names but never lived up to expectations.

 

Sylvan Grenier - Good

 

Needs to be lowered

 

The Undertaker - Average

 

That was a tough one and I can remember thinking about it for a bit. While already a veteran of the industry at the time and a more then solid worker, Taker imo improved a fair bit over the following years. He added new move after new move and pretty much created an entire new moveset. I think he deserves Average potential, he went from a top guy with a great look and solid ring skills to a legend who could carry stiffs (sometimes ) and pull A* matches with the right opponent.

 

Tony Mamaluke - Very Good

 

Needs lowering a little probably but another guy who debuted very young and green but turned into a good worker.

 

Travis Tomko - Very Good

 

Definitely needs lowering.

 

This doesn't taken into account people like Goldberg who is about to become the biggest star on the planet in six months that are set to random.

 

That was another tough one I couldn't decide, he didn't really improve much after '98 maybe Average? When I'm not sure in a mod I always leave undone if possible.

 

I don't know... Rob Van Dam being lower than Mike Sanders, Rey Mysterio lower than Mamaluke, Jay Lethal and Chris Hero with more potential than anyone in wrestling... it just seems a little inconsistent and thought I'd bring it up.

 

That's all covered above, hope that wasn't too much of a rant. I really do appreciate the feedback and would like to know what people think of the potentials

[Pier1981]

Hey Genadi,

 

thanks a lot for your efforts in this mod. I chime in just to ask when you think you'll release the next update, since I'll buy the game only then.

 

Oh, and to the guy who said that the Warriah wasn't a main eventer in 1998 and that the match with Hogan at Halloween Havoc destroyed his character, well, just take a look at this video:

 

 

This was AFTER the infamous match. Hmmm, that wasn't that bad for a guy with the career killed, huh?

 

Sure, there are some boos at the beginning of his promo, but he also got outstanding pops (in the last 40 seconds he almost got an ovation). And a certain John Cena today keep gettin' booed in almost every arena he step in, but I don't think his popularity can be argued...

 

I mean, come on, the Jim Hellwig hate is so 2000.

[Genadi]

Hey Genadi,

 

thanks a lot for your efforts in this mod. I chime in just to ask when you think you'll release the next update, since I'll buy the game only then.

 

Wow thanks mate quite the compliment In that case I will make sure the update is out by this Sunday. I don't want to cost Adam any extra sales

 

In all honesty though there are some great mods out already and as always C-Verse while I can understand some people not being able to really get into it, is a great way to slowly get used to all of the new additions.

[FlameSnoopy]

Oh and by the way Genadi, if you haven't done it already, you must remove all promotion loyalty from USA (and any other country that doesn't have promotion loyalty setting on) because it then makes the option turn on automatically, thus making the under <insert the correct age here> wrestlers become loyal to your promotion.

 

And another opinion.. I think you have become obsessed with making this mod follow the real world as best as possible, BUT.. I think half of the fun is that we get to re-write (or not to re-write) the history, and thus, I would like to suggest that you would delete all the narratives doing so (promotion losing money, prestige etc.) I already did it for my own files, and I will continue to copy my own narrative file over yours, as I think it makes things more interesting. And I hope you haven't changed your mind about deleting all the potentials either, because I hope I am not the only one wanting a complete removal of those thingies. The biggest place to develop skills is developmental territories of course, which can raise some prestigious skills in no time (in my CZCW game in CVerse97, Grandmaster Phunk's psychology raised from the default D - to B - in 10 months spent in the development).

 

As always, just my opinion.

[Genadi]

Oh and by the way Genadi, if you haven't done it already, you must remove all promotion loyalty from USA (and any other country that doesn't have promotion loyalty setting on) because it then makes the option turn on automatically, thus making the under <insert the correct age here> wrestlers become loyal to your promotion.

 

It doesn't make the option turn on automatically from what I've seen. It's because it is turned on already. It keeps guys like RVD from signing with WCW or WWF. If you can make a good case with some solid examples of why it's a bad thing I'm happy as always to review and discuss it.

 

And another opinion.. I think you have become obsessed with making this mod follow the real world as best as possible, BUT.. I think half of the fun is that we get to re-write (or not to re-write) the history, and thus, I would like to suggest that you would delete all the narratives doing so (promotion losing money, prestige etc.) I already did it for my own files, and I will continue to copy my own narrative file over yours, as I think it makes things more interesting.

 

So you think I should delete some narratives that loads of people are enjoying because you don't? I don't think that's fair or reasonable. I for one like the narratives you mentioned and know many people who agree. I don't like taking out things which I believe add immersion and fun when it can easily be done by the individual if they don't agree.

 

And I hope you haven't changed your mind about deleting all the potentials either, because I hope I am not the only one wanting a complete removal of those thingies. The biggest place to develop skills is developmental territories of course, which can raise some prestigious skills in no time (in my CZCW game in CVerse97, Grandmaster Phunk's psychology raised from the default D - to B - in 10 months spent in the development).

 

I tried to open the discussion regarding this in the post above yours. I encourage anyone and everyone to reply and give their thoughts. Where it stands at the moment I don't see why they should be deleted. Maybe a filter in the editor would be useful so players could easily see who has potentials set up and could delete them if they wanted.

 

As always, just my opinion.

 

I appreciate it, thanks

[FlameSnoopy]

It doesn't make the option turn on automatically from what I've seen. It's because it is turned on already. It keeps guys like RVD from signing with WCW or WWF. If you can make a good case with some solid examples of why it's a bad thing I'm happy as always to review and discuss it.

 

I asked this in the Small Questions -thread, and what I got was (when I used RVD as an example): He should have a good relationship with Paul Heyman (loyalty?) and he should be set loyal in personal settings. This would prevent guys like Jamie Noble becoming loyal with ECW..

 

Oh and I thought I checked it was set as off, thus why I thought it automatically turns on Maybe should have double-checked, and now this post is not needed either..

[soundsofsilver]

It doesn't make the option turn on automatically from what I've seen. It's because it is turned on already. It keeps guys like RVD from signing with WCW or WWF. If you can make a good case with some solid examples of why it's a bad thing I'm happy as always to review and discuss it.

 

Well, one reason would be that promotion loyalty, as it exists in the game and has been described by Adam, does not exist in the United States, and is designed primarily for Japanese promotions.

[randomfreeze]

Haven't been playing TEW at all lately but wanted to chime in since you took the time to address what I posted, which I appreciate greatly.

 

It makes sense that veterans get very low or random, I think one of my two main points is that I'm not much of an in the middle guy and I'd prefer either all random or pre-determined potential. With narratives so accurate and stats that are pretty much spot on it's weird to see a vet like Bret Hart set to very low and another vet like Jim Duggan with no set potential and a different vet like Charles Wright with Low. [i don't have the game in front of me, so I might be wrong on Duggan, but just sub any 38+ year old guy that doesn't have a set potential.] I don't see why any veterans would have different potential, whether it be random or very low.

 

My second point is comparing the Chavos/Mysterios/Van Dams to the Heros/Cabanas/Roodes. From what I understand, you are assigning the potential based off how they actually progressed over their careers, looking at it from a 2010 perspective. I thought potential was meant to measure how likely they were to progress judging them at the time the mod starts of when the wrestler debuts. For example, in 1998 I would of thought Chavo, Rey, and Rob would continue to improve on their spots and become significantly better wrestlers. Compared to when Hero debuted in 1998 I don't think he was thought of as a guy who would progress to be as talented as he is now, and I'm not sure if Colt was looked at as someone who was going to significantly improve either.

 

I'm probably looking at potential completely wrong on that last account, but that's how I've always considered it. Anyways, I just won't to post this now to give you some feedback to what I was talking about and again, appreciate you answering.

[Genadi]

I asked this in the Small Questions -thread, and what I got was (when I used RVD as an example): He should have a good relationship with Paul Heyman (loyalty?) and he should be set loyal in personal settings. This would prevent guys like Jamie Noble becoming loyal with ECW..

 

Perfect thanks dude, never really looked into it but with that explanation I'll change for sure.

 

 

Haven't been playing TEW at all lately but wanted to chime in since you took the time to address what I posted, which I appreciate greatly.

 

It makes sense that veterans get very low or random, I think one of my two main points is that I'm not much of an in the middle guy and I'd prefer either all random or pre-determined potential. With narratives so accurate and stats that are pretty much spot on it's weird to see a vet like Bret Hart set to very low and another vet like Jim Duggan with no set potential and a different vet like Charles Wright with Low. [i don't have the game in front of me, so I might be wrong on Duggan, but just sub any 38+ year old guy that doesn't have a set potential.] I don't see why any veterans would have different potential, whether it be random or very low.

 

My second point is comparing the Chavos/Mysterios/Van Dams to the Heros/Cabanas/Roodes. From what I understand, you are assigning the potential based off how they actually progressed over their careers, looking at it from a 2010 perspective. I thought potential was meant to measure how likely they were to progress judging them at the time the mod starts of when the wrestler debuts. For example, in 1998 I would of thought Chavo, Rey, and Rob would continue to improve on their spots and become significantly better wrestlers. Compared to when Hero debuted in 1998 I don't think he was thought of as a guy who would progress to be as talented as he is now, and I'm not sure if Colt was looked at as someone who was going to significantly improve either.

 

You've made some great points, I agree some def need some tweaking. This is the first year I've really set alot of potentials up so it's still a new thing for me to mod. Anymore feedback like this is greatly appreciated guys as it will help me decide on what changes or deletions should be made. If it's causing more problems then it's worth I'm happy to delete them.

[Genadi]

Unfortunately the update is delayed again. I have the first cold I can remember in years and am trying to support my girl through a close death in her family, has been a bummer few days

 

Thanks again for all the support with the mod guys and I do promise I'll try to get it done asap.

[denzil85]

Take your time, no rush. Hope everything sorts itself out

[Genadi]

Can anyone please cut this guy on kyky for next update.

 

http://slam.canoe.ca/SlamWrestlingBios/gillis.html

[Fleisch]

Can anyone please cut this guy on kyky for next update.

 

http://slam.canoe.ca/SlamWrestlingBios/gillis.html

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/Frontiergfx/MrGillis.jpg

[Genadi]

Version 2.0 is up, main post has been updated with new rapishare link and attachment. Thanks everyone for your patience and understanding for delays

 

Version 2.0 Updates

 

* Major Worker Personality Overhaul (Backstage now needs tending to, for example WCW has gone from a 100% to 62.2% Starting Backstage Rating)

 

* FMW TV Show & TV Contract added (BattleStation FMW)

 

* Potentials for All reported Workers set back to Random (Please report any I've missed)

 

* Extreme Canadian Championship Wrestling (ECCW) Added

 

* Workers Added...

Greg Gillis (ECCW) (Pic attached)

"Rocket" Randy Tyler (ECCW)

Michelle Star (ECCW)

Vance Nevada (ECCW)

Torch/Adam Firestorm (ECCW)

 

* Issue addressed where RAW & Nitro were sometimes losing TV deals. (Top tier networks have all been lowered one size and restrictions softened)

 

* Aguila mask added (Pic attached )

[Mattyc]

Just a quick thank you for this update, this is a great mod. I'm having a good time playing with WCW, I'm looking to set up a WCW/NWO brand split in 1998.

[Pier1981]

Thanks a lot!

 

Time to buy the game...

[Vladamire Dracos]

I know very little about ECCW, but based on the very little know here is who I think would be in the company. I would probably make them E popularity as about this time they were based in Northern Vancouver Island. I have no clue about product, but based on what I see they are probably Heavy hardcore and Daredevil, no clue otherwise. Here is a roster I would think based on who is on the current indy scene and title histories.

 

Abaddon

Ballard Brothers

Ladies Choice(I think he hasn't debut at that point)

Juggernaut

Moondog Manson

Jimmy Snuka

Disco Fury

 

Guys you'd have to create

"Rocket" Randy Tyler

Michelle Star

Vance Nevada

Torch/Adam Firestorm

Asian Cougar

Dr. Luther/Lenny St. Claire

Lumberjack Bubba

 

No idea who these guys are:

The Bodyguard

Mike Roselli

John Rambo

Johnny Canuck

Destruction

Incubus

Moondog Chopps

 

To fill this out a bit:

 

Dave Republic (Owner/Founder; needs set)

Michelle Starr (Booker/Founder; needs set)

Terry Joe Silverspoon (Founder; Non-wrestling authority Figure that's been missed above)

John Rambo (Detailed Profile: http://www.nwlwrestling.com/profiles/rambo/stats.html)

Dr. Luther (Detailed Profile: http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/pro_wrestling/9520) Note the date!

Mike Roselli ("Ironman" Mike Roselli; Detailed Interview: http://entertainment-news-update.info/bcs-mike-roselli-a-wrestler-an-x-man-and-more/)

Johnny Canuck ("Loverboy" Johnny Canuck; Couldn't find much about him, other than he made up the notorious team of G.O.D. (Glamour Order of Discipline) with Michelle Starr)

Moondog Chopps (Can't find anything on this guy other than he worked a few years at ECCW teaming with Moondog Manson as the New Moondogs; Pic: http://www.adamfirestorm.com/af/photos/tags/manson/tags/el/photo/1178954008/blood-brothers.html)

 

Tag Teams:

The BBC: Mike Roselli/Randy Tyler

Glamour Order of Discipline: Michelle Starr/Johnny Canuck

New Moondogs: Moondog Manson/Moondog Chopps

[jstarr187]

Really enjoying the mod, although I made the mistake of running a drug test of the WCW locker room, and now everyone is so depressed I can barely get a C out of an Eddie/Rey match! Shot myself in the foot on that one.

 

Small issue I noticed: Tried to sign Super Dragon out of APW and he wanted Hogan level perks- PPV bonuses, merch cuts, etc...Was SD that much of a dick back in the day or are the stats just off?

[mrallan]

Don't know if you did this on purpose but Jason, The Pitbulls, and Stevie Richards all are not employed by ECW in the game when they all appeared at November to Remember and Pitbull #2 (I believe) appeared on the 12/20 Hardcore TV so he was still appearing in ECW in december.

 

Also Jason was the manager of Justin Credible at this point as he managed him during his match with Mikey Whipwreck at N2R.

 

Lance Wright isn't in the game but he was the manager of the Pitbulls at this time. Also their was another guy Lance Wright managed during Lance Wright's feud with Taz named Brak(k)us who was previously signed by WWF and turned up in ECW and was there until February 1998 feuding with Taz.

 

There was this referee in ECW who you don't have on their roster in the game and I don't think he is in the game at all. I don't know his name but he makes two appearances on November to Remember interfering in the four way tag match and TOmmy Dreamer vs Rob Van Dam. I will give you a link and maybe you can catch his name so you can add him.

 

Phil LaFon and Doug Furnas should be set to heel as they were working with RVD & Alfonso against Dreamer with the WWF storyline.

 

Paul Diamond was still making minor appearances with ECW competing in the N2R dark match and again on 12/20 Hardcore TV.

 

Al Snow should have a PPA with ECW or something as he started working his head gimmick at N2R.

 

One more thing is on December 6 1997 ECW had a show called Better Than Ever at the ECW Arena. I felt this was important to add because this is where Triple Threat won the tag team championships from Doug Furnas and Phil LaFon who had won it the day before

 

November to Remember 1997 link: http://www.veoh.com/browse/videos/category/entertainment/watch/v1818594T6z426tW

[Vladamire Dracos]

Speaking of ECCW, here's a

on the promotion circa October-December 1997, might be worth watching if you're not familiar with the promotion or to help to get it even more accurate in-game. It was put together by Adam Firestorm (RIP). I could provide some info on Bulldog Bob Brown Jr., Billy Two Eagles, and maybe others if you wanted to add them.

[Genadi]

Fantastic feedback thanks guys will only help this mod become better. Once I'm done with '99 I'll update for another release with fixes and additions. Please keep the feedback coming until then though, I am listening

[magik]

minor thing:

 

In storylines -> Tag Team Split And Feud Ver1 -> plot 4 (Tag Team Break Up)

 

The angle type is sex and romance (and should probably be switched to something else).

 

It makes Scott Steiner's and Rick Steiner's split weird.

[Vladamire Dracos]

Somethings I noticed:

 

Reid Flair doesn't have blood relationship(s)

Windham Rotunda doesn't have blood relationship(s)

Ricky Steamboat Jr. doesn't have blood relationship(s)

Maryse Ouellet doesn't have blood relationship(s)

Ted Dibiase Jr. doesn't have blood relationship(s)

Cody Rhodes doesn't have blood relationship(s)

Isn't Trevor Rhodes part of the Rhodes family?

Johnny Fairplay should debut in at least 1994 if he himself is to be believed

 

 

A better Bio for Bao Nguyen:

The "Vietnam Phenom" Bao Nguyen also works under the name of Bonzai Bruce Bukkake on the west coast. He broke into wrestling through the Supreme Pro Wrestling wrestling school under J.D. Bishop in Northern California and has worked for Portland wrestling, Supreme Pro Wrestling, All Pro Wrestling, and many other small indy promotions throughout California and the Pacific Northwest. Despite the successes he had in the area in making a name for himself, He moved to the Midwest to add to his training under "King" Harley Race.

 

 

You might consider adding New Dimension Wrestling to the game. It would be a fun promotion to play as to say the least, with Johnny Fairplay as the owner/booker and guys like The Suicide Kings, "Disposable Youth" Drew Gage, Billy Two Eagles (as an Indian "Pit Boss" called B2E), Buddy Rose Jr. (no relation to the NW legend), Psycho Sailor (who legit threw a opponent through a gym's plate glass door during a match), "The Wrestler the 80's forgot" C.C. Poison, Awesome Adam, "Bruiser" Brian Cox (RIP), "Player" Loius Rach, The Hollywood Studd, Otto Schwanz (TNA's Bo Dupp), Venom (WWF's Joey Abs), "Coach" Mike Jones (who worked a Pedophilia gimmick), and others. You can find an episode of their old show here: http://www.youtube.com/user/legitwrestling#grid/user/3C00450BAAAF9EFC

[BurningHamster]

Isn't Trevor Rhodes part of the Rhodes family?

 

Pretty sure he isn't.