GatorBait19 Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 could UFC ever have a mega show like Wrestlemania every year? UFC 100 had two title fight, and I know it hurts UFC because it would mean some shows might not have title matches but they have had shows like that before. But WWE pulls out all the stops for wrestlemania and it's always a pay day for them in PPV sales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daffanka Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 There's all sorts of troubles. First one is putting all your eggs in one basket. UFC just had a period of nearly every single card being really bad. MMA fighters take at least a few months off after every fight, and if the guys who draw big are out, well, it's not good business. Second is injuries. Fighters get injured a lot in training and if you're advertising Mir - Lesnar 3 and it doesn't happen at the megacard, you're screwed since you either move the biggest fight or move all the smaller but still important fights. Third is that it's hard to have any sort of significant build up between fighters. Lesnar - Mir 3 is obvious. They're 1-1, Lesnar's coming off an injury and Frank Mir is back (again) but the only other big fights like that are Machida - Shogun or Evans - Rampage and that's a big chunk of the UFC's drawing power. Fourth is that MMA doesn't have the built in audience wrestling has. I think just about every WWE viewer (10 million?) buys Wrestlemania, meaning they can just go no holds crazy build up because they're going to get tons of buys. UFC 100, the best selling in UFC history, did about 1.5 million and it had the TUF 9 coaches fighting, GSP versus guy they'd done a wonderful job of making a credible challenger out of, and Lesnar - Mir 2. That's two main events, arguably three, that if they spread it out could have gotten a lot more buys. Really if you want supercards I recommend checking out Japanese MMA. The Dynamite!! events are usually pretty good and the last one contained 18 fights I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashleyholland Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 could UFC ever have a mega show like Wrestlemania every year? In a way, they do. And even when they don't they regularly trounce WWE/Boxing on PPV, so there isn't really a need to change tact. Like Daffanka said, there are numerous issues that you can't work around in WWE that you can work around in wrestling. If a fighter breaks a finger a couple of weeks before a fight, he won't pass his medical. If you sprain an ankle, you might still be able to fight come bell time, but you wont be able to cut weight properly, meaning that if you're in a title bout, it can't happen. Plus, you're looking at a very different fanbase. Wrestlemania *always* does the biggest number for WWE, regardless of the matches that are on it. With MMA or boxing though, it's the fights people tune in to see. A great example is the UFC's 'Ultimate 2007' and 'Ultimate 2008' cards that we're becoming a regular year end fixture. They stacked them with must-see matches like Rampage-Wanderlei 3, Wanderlei vs Chuck etc and title matches. Ultimate 2009 was supposed to feature two title bouts and a series of compelling undercard fights. It ended up being one of the weakest in recent memory. UFC see their 'guarenteed' number of PPV buys somewhere around 200,000 mark: Thats the number they do with the weak overseas cards that air on tape delay or later on Spike TV. I believe that WWE averaged at 180,000 buys last year - so I wouldn't expect a change any time soon. UFC 100 had two title fight, and I know it hurts UFC because it would mean some shows might not have title matches but they have had shows like that before. They do the two title fight thing occasionally. UFC 111 this weekend has a title fight at 185lbs and an interim title bout in the heavyweight division. UFC 112 just a couple of weeks later has the 155 and 185lb titles being defended. The issue with this though is time. A title fight is 5x5 minute rounds...with intro's, time between rounds, announcing the decision, interviewing the winner etc...you need to leave around 45 mins per title bout. If you have two title fights on a three hour PPV, thats potentially half your time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashleyholland Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 Fourth is that MMA doesn't have the built in audience wrestling has. I think just about every WWE viewer (10 million?) buys Wrestlemania, meaning they can just go no holds crazy build up because they're going to get tons of buys. I had a quick Google around just now...WWE throws the 'around 1 million' figure around for Wrestlemania, which I thought was quite high. Turns out that number is a 'worldwide' figure. Whether that includes countries that get it for free, I'm not sure. It's quite missleading though when you consider that most PPV buys you see usually only take into account domestic US buys. According to Dave Meltzer, Wrestlemania did 580,000 domestic buys, making it the tenth most ordered PPV in the US for 2009. Three of the top ten were boxing, the rest MMA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesterx7769 Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 Three of the top ten were boxing, the rest MMA. On a somewhat unrelated note, that is why I find it hilarious when boxing has a Mayfeather PPV or something and people say "Just look at how many people ordered the PPV! Who says boxing is dying and MMA is growing, lets see UFC do those numbers!" um yeah, that's b/c that big boxing thing is a once or twice a year thing and UFC does them every month (if not more) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daffanka Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 They do the two title fight thing occasionally. UFC 111 this weekend has a title fight at 185lbs and an interim title bout in the heavyweight division. UFC 112 just a couple of weeks later has the 155 and 185lb titles being defended. Just to add to this, the 185lb champion is one of the worst drawing in the company. I don't know if this is going to change what with him wrecking Forrest in the most awesome way imaginable but Anderson's fight being the co-main isn't very surprising. I had a quick Google around just now...WWE throws the 'around 1 million' figure around for Wrestlemania, which I thought was quite high. Turns out that number is a 'worldwide' figure. Whether that includes countries that get it for free, I'm not sure. It's quite missleading though when you consider that most PPV buys you see usually only take into account domestic US buys. According to Dave Meltzer, Wrestlemania did 580,000 domestic buys, making it the tenth most ordered PPV in the US for 2009. Three of the top ten were boxing, the rest MMA. ... man. Those buyrates have plummeted. Good to know. e: Wait, so only about 15% of people watching RAW bought Wrestlemania? RAW does about 4.0 and unless I'm mistaken about Neilsen ratings that's like 5 million households, isn't it? e2: derp derp I have no idea why I thought 10 million people bought WM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashleyholland Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 Just to add to this, the 185lb champion is one of the worst drawing in the company. I don't know if this is going to change what with him wrecking Forrest in the most awesome way imaginable but Anderson's fight being the co-main isn't very surprising. Yeah...I'd love to say it was all down to the two awfull fights he had against Leites and Cote, but they never had much luck with him before that. Guess you could put that down to the US fans being unfamilier with him and the lack of English. Machida's English isn't a whole lot better, but at least he has the Karate 'gimmick', for want of a better term. ... man. Those buyrates have plummeted. Good to know. e: Wait, so only about 15% of people watching RAW bought Wrestlemania? RAW does about 4.0 and unless I'm mistaken about Neilsen ratings that's like 5 million households, isn't it? e2: derp derp I have no idea why I thought 10 million people bought WM Could be that the 10 mil figure is a 'this event is being watched by' type of thing. The UFC were touting 8 million people viewing a PPV or something a while back, based on their research that the average number of people watching a PPV is 8-12 per household/venue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanMcFly Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 They do the two title fight thing occasionally. UFC 111 this weekend has a title fight at 185lbs and an interim title bout in the heavyweight division. UFC 112 just a couple of weeks later has the 155 and 185lb titles being defended. The issue with this though is time. A title fight is 5x5 minute rounds...with intro's, time between rounds, announcing the decision, interviewing the winner etc...you need to leave around 45 mins per title bout. If you have two title fights on a three hour PPV, thats potentially half your time... It's actually the 170 Title being defended this Saturday. Unfortunately, even though the fights are usually top notch, I've actually stopped watching the UFC due to the fact that the champions won't be dethroned in quite awhile probably. I mean, it's getting quite predictable in the title picture. I mean: Heavyweight - Brock Lesnar The Guy's too big. I mean, he is coming off a huge lay-off, so that would give a chance in somebody beating him, but still, just by laying on the guy, he could win the fight Light-Heavyweight - Lyoto Machida The belt will probably flip flop between Machida, Shogun & Maybe Evans & Rampage, but I would expect Machida to continue defending the belts Middleweight - Anderson Silva Nuff' Said Welterweight - GSP Too much Wrestling ability, and the guy can dictate the pace. Which is why the fight with Hardy will be an easy one for him. You'd need a really, and I mean REALLY good striker to stop GSP on the feet, and you would need INCREDIBLE takedown defence. Probably an irresistable force at Welterweight. Lightweight - BJ Penn Don't particularly like the guy, but he's probably unstoppable at Lightweight. Anyways, didn't mean to skew the thread, but had to post my opinion somewhere, and this seemed like the closest thing without getting my opinion lost in the official thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashleyholland Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 It's actually the 170 Title being defended this Saturday. Lol, typo..ah well, at least it's not my job not to get these things mixed up. Oh, wait... It's funny actually, filmed an interview with Dan a couple of weeks back before he left Rough House and we were talking about the new weight legislations that Massachusetts were about to trail. Basically fighters can agree to a double weigh-in (one on the day of the fight), and are only allowed to gain a certain percentage of their bodyweight back before the second weigh-in. Anyway, Dan was saying that if that ever becomes standard he'll have to fight at 185 because his body wouldn't stay around 170 for long enough. I now have a £200 bet on with the man that he'll win the 185lb title before the 170lb one. He steps in the Octagon above 190, FYI Heavyweight - Brock Lesnar The Guy's too big. I mean, he is coming off a huge lay-off, so that would give a chance in somebody beating him, but still, just by laying on the guy, he could win the fight. I really want to see him taken into the later rounds...like you say though, the way he's mowing through people with his size, I dunno if there is anyone who can do it. Light-Heavyweight - Lyoto Machida The belt will probably flip flop between Machida, Shogun & Maybe Evans & Rampage, but I would expect Machida to continue defending the belts I think Rampage beats all three of those guys to be honest, but I'm very biased :-p Middleweight - Anderson Silva Nuff' Said Can't wait to see how Chael does against him. Silva will end up submitting him, but I think he could do some serious damage first. Got my fingers crossed that Shogun wrecks Machida though, so Anderson can move up for good. Think a big wrestler could do him at 205. Welterweight - GSP Too much Wrestling ability, and the guy can dictate the pace. Which is why the fight with Hardy will be an easy one for him. You'd need a really, and I mean REALLY good striker to stop GSP on the feet, and you would need INCREDIBLE takedown defence. Probably an irresistable force at Welterweight. Cant see anyone beating this guy without Matt-Serra'ing him. I also don't want to lose my £200 :-p Lightweight - BJ Penn Don't particularly like the guy, but he's probably unstoppable at Lightweight. Yup. Would be interested to see him against Aldo if they could meet in the middle. Really want to see him fight Fitch as well for some reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daffanka Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 Heavyweight - Brock Lesnar The Guy's too big. I mean, he is coming off a huge lay-off, so that would give a chance in somebody beating him, but still, just by laying on the guy, he could win the fight The one guy I could see beating him is Velasquez. Brock's wrestling is very one dimensional, he has an absolutely fantastic double leg. In Vz's wrestling days he was very good at defending those. He's also got good power standing and is really good in the clinch, which is where you usually end up after a failed double leg. Not at all a guaranteed win but if someone's going to dethrone Brock I think it's Velasquez. Light-Heavyweight - Lyoto Machida The belt will probably flip flop between Machida, Shogun & Maybe Evans & Rampage, but I would expect Machida to continue defending the belts I think whoever wins the rematch is going to hold the belt for a while. I can't see Evans or Rampage seriously challenging any of them and guys like Jones or Davis are still a few years too raw to challenge them as I think both guys would be easily submitted if they managed to take Machida/Shogun down. Middleweight - Anderson Silva Nuff' Said Chael Sonnen, unofficial 185lb wrestling champion is going to prove you wrong! Welterweight - GSP Too much Wrestling ability, and the guy can dictate the pace. Which is why the fight with Hardy will be an easy one for him. You'd need a really, and I mean REALLY good striker to stop GSP on the feet, and you would need INCREDIBLE takedown defence. Probably an irresistable force at Welterweight. ... yeah not going to argue here. Welterweight is still full of really good match ups though (Fitch - Alves this weekend is the fight I look most forward to on the card.) Lightweight - BJ Penn Don't particularly like the guy, but he's probably unstoppable at Lightweight. You can hope he gets unmotivated and fat again! Or that Gomi becomes motivated. Or that Kawajiri signs a contract with the UFC. I mean BJ would still probably win in any of those situations but still... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoNdOn Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 It's actually the 170 Title being defended this Saturday. Unfortunately, even though the fights are usually top notch, I've actually stopped watching the UFC due to the fact that the champions won't be dethroned in quite awhile probably. I mean, it's getting quite predictable in the title picture. I mean: Heavyweight - Brock Lesnar The Guy's too big. I mean, he is coming off a huge lay-off, so that would give a chance in somebody beating him, but still, just by laying on the guy, he could win the fight Light-Heavyweight - Lyoto Machida The belt will probably flip flop between Machida, Shogun & Maybe Evans & Rampage, but I would expect Machida to continue defending the belts Middleweight - Anderson Silva Nuff' Said Welterweight - GSP Too much Wrestling ability, and the guy can dictate the pace. Which is why the fight with Hardy will be an easy one for him. You'd need a really, and I mean REALLY good striker to stop GSP on the feet, and you would need INCREDIBLE takedown defence. Probably an irresistable force at Welterweight. Lightweight - BJ Penn Don't particularly like the guy, but he's probably unstoppable at Lightweight. Anyways, didn't mean to skew the thread, but had to post my opinion somewhere, and this seemed like the closest thing without getting my opinion lost in the official thread Although I agree with most of what you say, I have to give Hardy somewhat of a chance against GSP. Now while I accept that GSP is a trully great fighter he did get caught by Serra. Now I accept that he has improved a lot since that set back but with Hardy being a much better striker than Serra and with him having a solid chin I give him maybe a 25% chance of catching GSP flush and putting him down. I believe that if it goes to a decision GSP will win and if it goes to the ground GSP will win, but you can't count out Hardy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoNdOn Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 I think whoever wins the rematch is going to hold the belt for a while. I can't see Evans or Rampage seriously challenging any of them and guys like Jones or Davis are still a few years too raw to challenge them as I think both guys would be easily submitted if they managed to take Machida/Shogun down. I would love to see Rampage vs Rua. That would be a bang out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashleyholland Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 I would love to see Rampage vs Rua. That would be a bang out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKWyJg4sI6s The first one was a pretty decent scrap while it lasted. 'Page has definatelly improved alot since then, not too sure about Shogun though, what with his bum knee and all. Rampage's new deal runs for six fights, so regardless of what happens in their next few bouts I'm sure we'll see a rematch. Hopefully minus the broken ribs this time :-p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daffanka Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 Although I agree with most of what you say, I have to give Hardy somewhat of a chance against GSP. Now while I accept that GSP is a trully great fighter he did get caught by Serra. Now I accept that he has improved a lot since that set back but with Hardy being a much better striker than Serra and with him having a solid chin I give him maybe a 25% chance of catching GSP flush and putting him down. I believe that if it goes to a decision GSP will win and if it goes to the ground GSP will win, but you can't count out Hardy. The reason GSP got caught was because he decided to stand with Serra (who is significantly more dangerous off his back than Hardy and probably a better wrester.) He dominated Alves who is a better striker and a way better wrestler. I can't see GSP deciding to stand with a guy he can take down, control and probably submit with ease. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKWyJg4sI6s The first one was a pretty decent scrap while it lasted. 'Page has definatelly improved alot since then, not too sure about Shogun though, what with his bum knee and all. Rampage's new deal runs for six fights, so regardless of what happens in their next few bouts I'm sure we'll see a rematch. Hopefully minus the broken ribs this time :-p I'm not too high on Rampage after he had a tough time against Jardine and Forrest and the only notable thing he's done in the UFC is knocking out old Chuck and broken Wanderlei. I hate to say it but I think Rashad's going to win their fight... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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