So, it has been a year...what's next?

[majesty95]

I believe we are just past a year since WMMA2 debuted and it appears the activity in the forums has been decreasing slowly. Is it time for a shot in the arm of the WMMA community?

 

Most sports games, even text based, release a new iteration every year or so. So, will we get a third installment of the acclaimed WMMA title?

 

I'm not sure what the sales numbers are for the game or the profit margin so it is hard to say this should be a definite. However, I know there is a very loyal core consumer base and GDS is ahead of the curve in already having a title for the fastest growing sport in the world. With the newest UFC Undisputed set for release in about a month and EA Sports MMA set later this year, it may be a good time to capitalize on the buzzing interest in MMA related video games.

 

So, will we be getting a new installment of the popular MMA sim? What can the community do to help?

 

I personally would be willing to Twitter, Facebook and blog about the game to help promote it. Anything else that Adam and GDS think would help I would be up for as well. Who else is on board? How many of you would like to see a third installment of the game? How many of you are willing to donate a little time and effort to help promote a future edition of the game and ensure more editions follow in the future? Let's hear from ya!

[xspudx]

I really don't mind, I love this game. Only thing that bothers me is lack of deaths and I'd say the inability to keep it standing so much. Its almost if everyone wants to go to the ground, ruins it a bit.

 

I also liked the original results layout.

[majesty95]

I really don't mind, I love this game. Only thing that bothers me is lack of deaths and I'd say the inability to keep it standing so much. Its almost if everyone wants to go to the ground, ruins it a bit.

 

I also liked the original results layout.

 

There are definitely things that can be improved upon. The game is only in its second iteration. There is even a thread for suggestions. This thread is more about who wants to see the franchise continue and how we can help the franchise grow.

[majesty95]

There are definitely things that can be improved upon. The game is only in its second iteration. There is even a thread for suggestions. This thread is more about who wants to see the franchise continue and how we can help the franchise grow.

 

Hmmm...nobody? I guess we're telling Adam we don't want WMMA3?

[curtains]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="majesty95" data-cite="majesty95" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="27705" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Hmmm...nobody? I guess we're telling Adam we don't want WMMA3?</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I have a billion suggestions <img alt=":)" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/smile.png.142cfa0a1cd2925c0463c1d00f499df2.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /> Main ones are:</p><p> </p><p> 1. More options for gameplay....kind of like with OOTP how you can play in commissioner mode, control other orgs etc etc. Also you should be able to book your feeder league matches and stuff like that.</p><p> </p><p> 2. Be able to watch other org's fights. This is a big one for me...has always seemed so odd that you can't do so.</p><p> </p><p> 3. Be able to randomly create a character in mid-game, either completely randomly or to set some or all of the stats yourself and have the rest be random. There is no reason this shouldn't be very easy to implement. You should be able to fill your game world with 100 characters very quickly, instead of making it an unbelievably painstaking process.</p><p> </p><p> 4. Better AI booking logic...I still find it to be a bit weak although it has improved since the start. It just has to be a lot choosier as to whom the champions fight...too often you have Fezzik fighting some random FA addition with a sub 50 reputation and very little popularity, when he's not even ranked in the top 10 in the organization. Hard to take those kind of thing's seriously.</p>

[curtains]

<p>Quick tip...if you want your standup fighters to do better, change the format from three 5 minute rounds to five 3 minute rounds. I use 9 three minute rounds for title fights. I find it helps to bridge the gap quite a bit, as before that I found that ground fighters were just a bit too dominant overall IMO.</p><p> </p><p>

This gives them less time to get the submissions and more standup periods at the beginning of the rounds to get knocked out in <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/smile.png.142cfa0a1cd2925c0463c1d00f499df2.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[NapDaddy]

The passive aggressive tactics in this thread are off the charts. PESTER ADAM NOW OR IT MEANS YOU DON'T WANT ANOTHER GAME. Easy, your Majesty.

[HansLanda11]

I want there to be another game but if Adam is making enough $$ off this game compared to the time he puts into it then it might not be worth it to put out a new game every year. I myself do believe that the popularity of this game will someday skyrocket just like MMA as a whole should.

[BrokenCycle]

<p>I think Adam created a nearly perfect engine for this game, so the only thing I'd like to see some change in is some interface elements. </p><p> </p><p>

Signing new fighters, in particular, is very confusing and overwhelming. There's very little search options, and it's very tedious finding fighters.</p>

[xspudx]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="BrokenCycle" data-cite="BrokenCycle" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="27705" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I think Adam created a nearly perfect engine for this game, so the only thing I'd like to see some change in is some interface elements. <p> </p><p> Signing new fighters, in particular, is very confusing and overwhelming. There's very little search options, and it's very tedious finding fighters.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> </p><p> >nearly perfect engine</p><p> >everyone wants to take it to the ground and grind a decision</p><p> </p><p> lolwut? Not THAT perfect, dude. Too ground oriented (sp?).</p>

[brashleyholland]

>nearly perfect engine

>everyone wants to take it to the ground and grind a decision

 

lolwut? Not THAT perfect, dude. Too ground oriented (sp?).

 

A lot of that is down to matchmaking though. People will only chase takedowns if that's the best way for them to win a fight. I have just as many fights play out on the feet as I do on the ground.

 

Most MMA fights end up on the ground at some point anyway, even those between two strikers.

[xspudx]

A lot of that is down to matchmaking though. People will only chase takedowns if that's the best way for them to win a fight.

I disagree. Every fighter who has takedown ability will probably go for it. I tried editing a guy's tactics and giving him no takedown ability, put him against a black belt in takedown ability, isn't he supposed to calculate what his strengths and weaknesses are? Not go for a takedown and try to get a submission, especially when he also has no submission defense.

 

Some fighters though, like Bogdonovich will never attempt a takedown and if they do reverse one, will get up. I just don't understand it.

 

Still though, it is too ground orientated nonetheless. I appreciate a lot of fighters find it easier to take the fight to the ground, but come on man, Clay Guida for example has an excellent ground game but that doesn't mean he keeps trying to takedown Diego Sanchez.

[brashleyholland]

I disagree. Every fighter who has takedown ability will probably go for it. I tried editing a guy's tactics and giving him no takedown ability, put him against a black belt in takedown ability, isn't he supposed to calculate what his strengths and weaknesses are? Not go for a takedown and try to get a submission, especially when he also has no submission defense.

 

Some fighters though, like Bogdonovich will never attempt a takedown and if they do reverse one, will get up. I just don't understand it.

 

So what your saying is that every fighter tries to take fights to the ground, apart from the ones that don't?

 

What promotion are you playing as? Outside of HW, Gamma doesn't have many big hitters at the start of the game and alot of the higher level guys in the default data are ground-based.

 

You can't outright prevent guys from going to the ground using tactics. With the example you used, was the opponent a better striker? Better in the clinch? If so then the fighters best opportunity to win may still have come from ground and pound, lay and prey or a submission.

 

I appreciate a lot of fighters find it easier to take the fight to the ground, but come on man, Clay Guida for example has an excellent ground game but that doesn't mean he keeps trying to takedown Diego Sanchez.

 

Except he did, in every round of their fight, and it was the only time he had any success.

[Adam Ryland]

Every fighter who has takedown ability will probably go for it. I tried editing a guy's tactics and giving him no takedown ability, put him against a black belt in takedown ability, isn't he supposed to calculate what his strengths and weaknesses are? Not go for a takedown and try to get a submission, especially when he also has no submission defense.

 

From what you've written, it sounds like you're looking at things in too simplistic a manner - it's not a case of "I don't have the ability to take him down so I won't even bother", there's far more complexity than that. It could be that the fighter is outmatched and so is trying to take it to the ground purely out of desperation because he thinks he can last longer on the ground than on the feet; it could be that as bad as his ground game is, he thinks his striking game is worse; it could be that he is looking purely to win and is willing to overlook his poor takedowns and poor defense because his submission attacks are the only way he thinks he can possibly win, even if it's a million to one shot; it could be that his ability to follow a game plan is so poor that he's just randomly picking a strategy and hoping for the best....there are a huge number of variables at play. It sounds very much like you're experiencing the issues you are because of your match-making, and that your fighters are in situations where they either have their strengths negated or out-matched, and so are having to fight outside their normal strategy to get a hope at winning.

 

Some fighters though, like Bogdonovich will never attempt a takedown and if they do reverse one, will get up. I just don't understand it.

 

I'm not sure what this line was about....JB is a guy whose best chance of winning is to out strike his opponent, why would he want to get stuck in the ground game?

[xspudx]

Except he did, in every round of their fight, and it was the only time he had any success.

 

Clay opened up the fight, like Sanchez, swinging for the fences. My point, is that the majority of matches end in submission or a grinded decision, tko's and ko's are a lot less frequent. Granted, I don't have GnP on and there's a 10 second knockdown rule, but that shouldn't really hamper it too much. I understand a lot of fighters have a ground game, I GET that there's a point to taking them down, but it's just not very realistic to have someone constantly try to take another down then try and get to mount before the ref pulls him off and he tries again, there doesn't seem to be enough variety in the commentary.

 

it could be that as bad as his ground game is, he thinks his striking game is worse

 

No. Not at all, I've tried configuring this. Like you say, Jerry's ground game is shocking and his best way against ANYBODY is to outstrike them. That's what he does, I copied him and edited my character a little bit, and he didn't go for a takedown. Strangely, I tried testing him against Matthew Dean who is a ground technician and he attempts to take him down as if he's suicidal. He doesn't even have ground striking ability so I have no idea what he's thinking or what reason he could possibly drum up to try and takedown his opponent. I maxed all his striking stats and dropped everything for the ground just to test it out and he's just not having any of it. The tactics don't seem to work as well as they suggest.

 

I'll copy and paste three random fights i've saved and see how different they are to eachother, because to me it seems they mostly always go the same way.

 

>Moving on, 'The Invisible Man' Jim Carpenter goes up against George 'Knock 'Em Out' Laurent in the VFL Middleweight division.

>A place in the semi-finals of tonight's tournament is at stake.

>There's the opening bell!

>They come together and strike, but neither can get past the gloves of the other.

>Carpenter comes in, looking for a quick takedown.

>The takedown is successful, Laurent pulls guard.

>Time slips away as Carpenter successfully keeps Laurent stuck against the ground.

>Carpenter looks to get past the guard.

>He passes the guard well, gaining side control.

>Carpenter tries to slip behind and take the back.

>Laurent is in big trouble as he is forced to give up his back!

>Carpenter tries to flatten Laurent out for a rear naked choke.

>The rear naked choke is in deep, Laurent has to tap out!

>The winner, by Submission; Jim Carpenter!

>Official Result: 'The Invisible Man' Jim Carpenter defeats George 'Knock 'Em Out' Laurent (Submission in 2:51 of round 1). The match was rated as being Fantastic.

>Moving on to the next match, in which Fernando 'The Traveller' Amaro takes on 'The Warrior' Dokuohtei Kuroki in the VFL Middleweight division.

>The winner will advance into the semi-finals of tonight's tournament.

>Round one begins!

>There's a takedown attempt from Amaro.

>Amaro can't get the takedown, Kuroki defends it well and pulls them into a clinch.

>Kuroki attempts to take down Amaro from the grapple.

>Kuroki can't get the takedown, Amaro defended it well.

>Kuroki attempts to take down Amaro from the grapple.

>He has the takedown; Amaro didn't even seem to fight it, and simply pulls guard.

>Amaro tries a sweep from the bottom of the guard.

>The sweep is brilliant, flipping them over so that Amaro has mount!

>Amaro tries to set up Kuroki for an armbar.

>Kuroki blocks it.

>Amaro takes the back as Kuroki tries to sweep him!

>Amaro attempts to set up an rear naked choke on Kuroki.

>Kuroki blocks it by turtling up.

>Kuroki tries to move Amaro off his back but can't.

>Amaro attempts a rear naked choke.

>Kuroki gets flattened out with the rear naked choke, he has to tap!

>The winner, by Submission; Fernando Amaro!

>Official Result: Fernando 'The Traveller' Amaro defeats 'The Warrior' Dokuohtei Kuroki (Submission in 3:15 of round 1). The match was rated as being Fantastic.

>Another match is about to begin; Ari 'The Finn-isher' Peltonen squares off with Mark 'The Thing' Cohen in the VFL Heavyweight division.

>And here we go!

>Cohen keeps out of range, assessing the situation.

>Peltonen comes in closer to press the issue.

>Peltonen uses a combination of three punches to get Cohen to cover up, then shoots in looking for a takedown.

>Cohen won't go down from the takedown attempt, but can't do anything about being pushed up against the cage and having Peltonen take his back.

>Cohen is in danger as Peltonen tries to climb up his back and apply a choke of some kind.

>Cohen goes underneath, causing Peltonen to go over and end up flat on his back.

>In comes Cohen looking to get some form of ground control.

>Peltonen is unable to prevent Cohen from getting side control.

>Cohen starts trying to work to use side control as a way to get behind Peltonen.

>He shows excellent control to move Peltonen over and take his back.

>Cohen tries to hook Peltonen in a rear naked choke.

>Cohen flattens Peltonen out with the rear naked choke in deep and forces the tap!

>Mark Cohen takes the victory by way of Submission!

>Official Result: Mark 'The Thing' Cohen defeats Ari 'The Finn-isher' Peltonen (Submission in 2:38 of round 1). The match was rated as being Fantastic.

 

Now I'm sure the three random fighters I've selected are submission based and there are a lot of variables involved, but to me it just doesn't seem the variables are THAT realistic. Most of my matches just turn out to be exactly like GSP vs. Dan Hardy. GSP takes him down, keeps him on the ground, mounts or whatever and keeps trying to get the submission hoping that the chance percentage allows him to actually get it.

 

But still, rear naked chokes everywhere.

 

I don't want to turn this thread into yet another of my "why is it so submission based" because I get it, I honestly get it. I understand the amount of variables and whatnot and the calculations but sometimes, it seems the math is a little wrong, or it's just too... i dunno, straightforward.

[Zoloftjunkie]

I think there is a lot of us who whish there was an option to keep the fights from going to the ground. But even if that was the case the stand up just isn't as diverse as the ground in this game. The stand up play by play would need to be revamped for this to happen. And before I hear but this isn't how it is in real mma. I know it's not, but this is a game, and how we want to play a game and how it works in real life are not always the same.

[brashleyholland]

Clay opened up the fight, like Sanchez, swinging for the fences.

 

For about 10 seconds. He got backed up on the cage in the opening seconds and threw about 7-8 desperation punches with his head down, before reaching for his first bodylock. I wouldn't say that counts for:

 

...Clay Guida for example has an excellent ground game but that doesn't mean he keeps trying to takedown Diego Sanchez.

 

Guida, like he does nearly every time out, kept trying to take Sanchez down from about 20 seconds into that fight.

 

Granted, I don't have GnP on and there's a 10 second knockdown rule, but that shouldn't really hamper it too much.

 

I'm not entirely sure how this works in game, but from a real-world perspective...If I'm a brawler with a rubbish ground game going up against a semi-decent guy, but I can't hit him on the ground...then I'm thinking my best plan of attack is to lay on top of him and stop his offence for the duration. If he's a better wrestler then I don't want him on top of me, so I'm going to do everything possible to take him down. Even if I knock him down, he's got 10 seconds to rest up and come back at me. If that's what the game is reflecting then it makes sense.

 

I understand a lot of fighters have a ground game, I GET that there's a point to taking them down, but it's just not very realistic to have someone constantly try to take another down then try and get to mount before the ref pulls him off and he tries again

 

It's perfectly realistic to have that happen if that's how two guys match up. I lost an amateur MMA fight (similar rules actually, no strikes to the head on the ground and standing 8-counts) by decision after 10 mins without getting hit once. The guy litterally double-legged me for ten mins straight. He didn't know any submissions and he knew that I did. Every time I hit him it felt like he would fold, so he just ragdolled me to the ground at every oppertunty, got stood up, then repeated the process. It might not be what you want to see in your game, but it is what happens.

 

 

Now I'm sure the three random fighters I've selected are submission based and there are a lot of variables involved, but to me it just doesn't seem the variables are THAT realistic. Most of my matches just turn out to be exactly like GSP vs. Dan Hardy. GSP takes him down, keeps him on the ground, mounts or whatever and keeps trying to get the submission hoping that the chance percentage allows him to actually get it.

 

Just off the top of my head that first one you had was a grappler vs a can with no ground game, so no surprises there. Amaro and Cohen are both big ground guys as well, so again, it's realistic for them to use those tactics.

 

Sorry if it seems like I'm shooting you down, but from the examples you've given it really does seem like a matchmaking issue and that fact that you don't like how often your fights go to the ground.

 

Something to keep in mind as well is that the default data is set what, ten years ago? MMA was very much a grapplers game back then. Look at the guy who was on top of the sport at the time: Tito Ortiz. All he did was take guys to the ground and grind them out. I've found that the longer my games last, the more well rounded guys become and the more stand-up fights I see. That said, even with the default data at the start, I've never seen an unrealistic number of fights go to the ground.

[brashleyholland]

I think there is a lot of us who whish there was an option to keep the fights from going to the ground. But even if that was the case the stand up just isn't as diverse as the ground in this game. The stand up play by play would need to be revamped for this to happen. And before I hear but this isn't how it is in real mma. I know it's not, but this is a game, and how we want to play a game and how it works in real life are not always the same.

 

Thats a fair point, 'customer is always right' as they say...but WMMA is an MMA sim, not an MMA and kickboxing sim. When I play Madden games I only ever pass the ball (I get beat a lot, lol). I'd love the option to make it impossible to sack my QB, or to disable the running game...but that's not American football.

 

I'd like the option to run a K-1-style promotion, or a grappling league in WMMA as well...I'm sure if it's something that's been asked for enough then it's something that will be considered if/when another MMA title is developed. I just didn't think that it was fair for the other poster to critisize a feature for being unrealistic, when it isn't.

[xspudx]

I'm not entirely sure how this works in game, but from a real-world perspective...If I'm a brawler with a rubbish ground game going up against a semi-decent guy, but I can't hit him on the ground...then I'm thinking my best plan of attack is to lay on top of him and stop his offence for the duration. If he's a better wrestler then I don't want him on top of me, so I'm going to do everything possible to take him down. Even if I knock him down, he's got 10 seconds to rest up and come back at me. If that's what the game is reflecting then it makes sense.

I have to disagree. Sure, some fighters may do that, but if you're a straight up striker who wants to knock his opponent out, especially with the tactics on, there's no way you're going to want to lay n' pray a decision, especially when you're clearly more elite on your feet. Some might want to do that, but he has no ground game whatsoever, that's how I set it. I deleted him after I realised he just didn't want to stand up but still, there's a lot of fighters who don't seem to want to trade.

 

btw, I'm playing in 1990 with all of the characters starting normal. I know it's a MMA sim and I know it's realistic for fighters to take it to the ground, but would there be that many complaints if there was more fights that ended in KO? Looking at my p4p top 10, i'll copy the tko/decision/submission percentage difference, and you decide if that's realistic.

 

James Foster - 2tko / 8 subs (Granted, he is a ground fighter and ground n' pound is turned off, but still its not as if he's unable to knock a guy out standing up)

Lars Bohlin - 3subs / 4 decisions (this i'll take, because Lars Bohlin is one of the worst lay n' prayers in the game, he'll do it to anyone)

Jim Carpenter - 8subs / 1 decision (another submission guy so i guess this is fair. Man, if the rest of the p4p list continues like this i'm not really gonna look like I have much of an argument)

Hassan Fezzik - 7tkos / 3 subs (see, this is more like it, but Hassan is not in my company, and the matches sim differently so I think if I signed him and put him in matches it would be subs all over, because he's very ground orientated)

Kunimichi - 5 subs

Fernando Amaro - 3 subs, 2 decisions

Mark Cohen - 3 tkos, 3 subs (btw, these 3 tko's have been with alpha, not me)

Matthew Dean - 2 subs, 3 decisions

Jack Humphreys - 3 subs, 1 decision

Go Yamamoto - 3 tkos, 2 decisions (about the only fighter on the p4p list i'm happy with, he's the only one scoring tko's next to an ALPHA fezzik, apparently)

 

So putting all the ko's together, 15 ko's, 10 of which btw are in ALPHA and aren't simmed. I'm not even gonna bother counting the subs and decisions because I know they're gonna be at least double.

 

I understand a lot of these fighters are ground based, and they're going to instantly take cans down and rape them, but come on, only 1 on them wants to finish the fight by knocking the other guy out, excluding Fezzik who just wants to do it for ALPHA?

 

Doesn't seem right to me. I've watched UFC enough to know that not every fighter is trying to get the takedown and a rear naked choke. People like Raul Hughes if he were statted correctly would be a godsend. He's supposed to have this awesome sprawl and takedown defense and be a striker, but he just gets taken down by everyone decent and, you guessed it, rear naked choke.

 

Where da strikers @?

[Daffanka]

The lack of ground and pound is what does you in.

 

I'm in a default data game at 2007 with every worthwhile fighter under contract and Foster, while retired, has about 60% TKO wins. Three of my champs (Gabriel Gallego, a regen named Matsumoto and Affonso Villar) are primarily strikers with good takedown defense and grappling. Gallego knocked Reguerio's head off because he didn't get taken down, Matsumoto the same with Huang, and Villar took the title off Lim (who had defeated guys like Yamada) by being better standing and able to roll with it on the ground.

 

I don't know if you're mismatching fights but I see plenty of striking battles, at least at the higher "everyone's got at least purple belt in everything" levels.

[xspudx]

GNP just seems so lame to me, though. I kind of want my promotion to be fair. I don't consider a guy taking another guy down and smashing his face in to be so fair. If a guy's on top of you, especially in mount, you're not gonna do too well in a fist fight.

 

I'm not just using these fights as an example though, I've used ground striking off and the ten second KD rule for as long as I remember, it's mostly always been like this.

 

And how many of these TKO's are ground based? I don't think putting GNP should make that much of a difference, really. Maybe it would make more guys want to seek the takedown. I doubt a submisison specialist is gonna try not to takedown his opponent just because they're good at caving people's faces in on top.

[Daffanka]

GNP just seems so lame to me, though. I kind of want my promotion to be fair. I don't consider a guy taking another guy down and smashing his face in to be so fair. If a guy's on top of you, especially in mount, you're not gonna do too well in a fist fight.

 

Uhh... so do you want a kickboxing simulator or are you fine with submissions?

 

I'm not just using these fights as an example though, I've used ground striking off and the ten second KD rule for as long as I remember, it's mostly always been like this.

 

Ten second KD and no GnP hurts strikers because it means they can't go for the finish when they knock someone down.

 

And how many of these TKO's are ground based? I don't think putting GNP should make that much of a difference, really. Maybe it would make more guys want to seek the takedown. I doubt a submisison specialist is gonna try not to takedown his opponent just because they're good at caving people's faces in on top.

 

I think all but one are ground based.

 

If your problem is that the ground game is too prevalent then I don't know what to tell you. Three of my champs are strikers, one is a wrestler and one is a bit of an all rounder. The game starts off with a lot of very good ground fighters (Fezzik, Yamada, Garner, Reguerio, Li-Kong etc.) but I find it peters out within a few years once other guys start hitting their primes and these guys get older.

[xspudx]

Uhh... so do you want a kickboxing simulator or are you fine with submissions?

I'm fine with submissions, I just don't think they should be 60% of the victories nor do I think almost every fighter who has a bit of talent should be going for one.

 

My point is not that the fighters do not get a chance to finish their opponent off, it's rare ANY of the fighters knock eachother down and it's a rare occurence because their usual gameplan is still to take one another down. If I'm going to choose anything for WMMA3 to improve on if, like a few others have requested, K1 promotions aren't allowed, then I'd choose for much more sterner tactics. Even if my fighter is wonderful at everything, if I go into the tactics and I put "poor" or whatever for wanting to go to the ground, I expect my fighter to not try his luck there unless he's getting his ass whipped badly in every other department. I don't care if it's the other person's weakness, tactics shouldn't be based on how great they are at the stats, the stats cover that, tactics should choose how they want to fight. Chuck Liddell is a great wrestler, and though he uses it in defense, I don't expect him to see him try and outwrestle Randy Couture or try and sub out Lyoto Machida, because that's basically what I'm seeing.

 

I think if you're going to be allowed to turn off options such as ground striking and be allowed a 10 second rule, the game should modify to those changes. Because a striker who is far more than competent at the stand up game isn't allowed to GnP should not hamper his need to knock guys out, regardless if he can't "finish the fight" so to speak, it should only hamper those fighters who want to go to the ground and strike. I'm just saying how it's coming out when I read the reports, I don't think the ground game should hamper the standup game so much. I shouldn't be penalised because of how I want to play the game. Because I don't want GnP doesn't mean all my strikers should have the brains of a chicken.

[brashleyholland]

I have to disagree. Sure, some fighters may do that, but if you're a straight up striker who wants to knock his opponent out, especially with the tactics on, there's no way you're going to want to lay n' pray a decision, especially when you're clearly more elite on your feet. Some might want to do that, but he has no ground game whatsoever, that's how I set it. I deleted him after I realised he just didn't want to stand up but still, there's a lot of fighters who don't seem to want to trade.

 

btw, I'm playing in 1990 with all of the characters starting normal. I know it's a MMA sim and I know it's realistic for fighters to take it to the ground, but would there be that many complaints if there was more fights that ended in KO? Looking at my p4p top 10, i'll copy the tko/decision/submission percentage difference, and you decide if that's realistic.

 

James Foster - 2tko / 8 subs (Granted, he is a ground fighter and ground n' pound is turned off, but still its not as if he's unable to knock a guy out standing up)

Lars Bohlin - 3subs / 4 decisions (this i'll take, because Lars Bohlin is one of the worst lay n' prayers in the game, he'll do it to anyone)

Jim Carpenter - 8subs / 1 decision (another submission guy so i guess this is fair. Man, if the rest of the p4p list continues like this i'm not really gonna look like I have much of an argument)

Hassan Fezzik - 7tkos / 3 subs (see, this is more like it, but Hassan is not in my company, and the matches sim differently so I think if I signed him and put him in matches it would be subs all over, because he's very ground orientated)

Kunimichi - 5 subs

Fernando Amaro - 3 subs, 2 decisions

Mark Cohen - 3 tkos, 3 subs (btw, these 3 tko's have been with alpha, not me)

Matthew Dean - 2 subs, 3 decisions

Jack Humphreys - 3 subs, 1 decision

Go Yamamoto - 3 tkos, 2 decisions (about the only fighter on the p4p list i'm happy with, he's the only one scoring tko's next to an ALPHA fezzik, apparently)

 

So putting all the ko's together, 15 ko's, 10 of which btw are in ALPHA and aren't simmed. I'm not even gonna bother counting the subs and decisions because I know they're gonna be at least double.

 

I understand a lot of these fighters are ground based, and they're going to instantly take cans down and rape them, but come on, only 1 on them wants to finish the fight by knocking the other guy out, excluding Fezzik who just wants to do it for ALPHA?

 

Doesn't seem right to me. I've watched UFC enough to know that not every fighter is trying to get the takedown and a rear naked choke. People like Raul Hughes if he were statted correctly would be a godsend. He's supposed to have this awesome sprawl and takedown defense and be a striker, but he just gets taken down by everyone decent and, you guessed it, rear naked choke.

 

Where da strikers @?

 

Here's the thing....

 

Doesn't seem right to me. I've watched UFC enough to know...

 

% of UFC fight that finish due to submission: 30.21%

 

Now compare that to promotion other promotions:

 

Hook n Shoot: 59.53%

 

King of the Cage: 45.47%

 

Rage in the Cage: 59.08%

 

The UFC is not indicative of MMA. They offer huge financial incentives, both over the table (KO of the Night/Fight of the Night) and under it (the infamous locker room bonuses) for guys to stand and bang and finish fights by KO. Hence why you see guys like Jorge Gurgel, one of the best MMA grapplers ever to step in the Octagon, engaging in D-level kickboxing matches time and time again. If you're watching the UFC, you're getting a skewed view of MMA. In a natural environment, submissions are far more common.

 

Looking at your P4P top ten...they're all ground guys, so there is no reason to expect anything other than a lot of submission wins.

 

I really don't know what you mean by bouts being simulated differently in ALPHA-1...surely it's the game works things out using the same data and the same calculations regardless? Again, it seems like outside of your booking and rule set, results are different (Fezzik and Go having numerous TKO's in ALPHA-1)...doesn't that suggest that it's maybe your ruleset and matchmaking that is the issue? If you put Fezzik against Raul Hughes in a promotion with no ground strikes, I'd fully expect Hasan to take down and submit Hughes.

[brashleyholland]

GNP just seems so lame to me, though. I kind of want my promotion to be fair. I don't consider a guy taking another guy down and smashing his face in to be so fair. If a guy's on top of you, especially in mount, you're not gonna do too well in a fist fight.

 

 

But striking on the ground *IS* MMA. Whether you consider it to be fair or not is irrelevant. MMA is not, as you put it, a fist fight. It's a sport that combines various martial arts with grappling and striking techniques on the feet and on the mat.

 

I understand that you want to play the game a certain way, but to go back to my Madden example, I'd love to play it with the opposition unable to sack my QB or run the ball...but that's not American Football. I don't fault EA when the CPU runs the ball on me.

 

Here's something to think about. The most prominent promotions to use the 10/8 count rule and limited strikes on the ground were early Pancrase and Rings. They used this rule set because they focused their shows on Japanese submission wrestlers taking on European and Western strikers. The ruleset (similar to the one you are using) heavily favours taking a fighter down and submitting them, thus giving the Japanese fighters an edge. The European kickboxers especially found that the only way to win (or survive to a draw) was to throw or take down their opponent and lay on top of them for as long as possible.