Official NBA Discussion Thread

[lazorbeak]

I guess I'm not sure what you mean by "talented." He is definitely a physical freak and he can do a lot of things, but I definitely don't see him as the most talented player in NBA history. I mean he's bigger than Jordan and is a better passer, but Jordan was statistically a significantly better scorer (better average, better percentage, better free throw shooter) and was an underrated defender who got a lot more steals than LeBron does.

 

Hakeem Olajuwon is a guy that was probably even more a physical freak than LeBron, considering he combined impressive size with incredible quickness. His 11 rebounds, 3 blocks and 2 steals a game average was unheard of for a guy playing center, and as mentioned earlier, he was probably the last guy to lead a team with only one superstar to a championship, something LeBron hasn't been able to do.

 

Or how about Magic Johnson, another physical freak who was a better true point guard than LeBron by a pretty wide margin. While he didn't have the same level of scoring numbers, his shooting percentage was over 50% his first EIGHT seasons in the league. LeBron shot 50% for the first time this year. Even more impressive is that Magic was able to step in and play center in the playoffs when his team needed him to: LeBron has never shown a willingness to guard anybody his weight.

 

And I'm only going back in time 15 years here.

 

I mean there's no question but that he's the most valuable player and has been, statistically, for several years now. He's a great scorer, a very good passer, and can do a lot of other things moderately well. He may even be the best pure athlete in NBA history- but athleticism is not the same thing as talent. LeBron's still a longggg way off from any "greatest ever" conversations. Six rings, for starters.

[jbergey_2005]

Im not talking about pure statistics. Lebron can put up triple double numbers without hardly breaking a sweat. Lebron puts up numbers better than Magic Johnson playing in a slow paced offense.

 

My point is put Lebrons body with Jordans mindset and his team wouldnt lose no matter how bad his other players were. Lebron is capable of so much more than he has shown to date.

 

And I agree Hakeem was the most physically gifted center we have seen.

[PeterHilton]

I guess I'm not sure what you mean by "talented." He is definitely a physical freak and he can do a lot of things, but I definitely don't see him as the most talented player in NBA history. I mean he's bigger than Jordan and is a better passer, but Jordan was statistically a significantly better scorer (better average, better percentage, better free throw shooter) and was an underrated defender who got a lot more steals than LeBron does.

 

Agree with that entire post, but just wanted to point out that a guy who won Defensive Player of the Year and was first team all defense 9 times can't really be called "underrated"

 

Fans nowadays are just too quick to make the MJ comparison w/o really understanding how good he was. Lebron isn't in his league. Neither is Kobe really.

[Comradebot]

Hakeem Olajuwon is a guy that was probably even more a physical freak than LeBron, considering he combined impressive size with incredible quickness. His 11 rebounds, 3 blocks and 2 steals a game average was unheard of for a guy playing center, and as mentioned earlier, he was probably the last guy to lead a team with only one superstar to a championship, something LeBron hasn't been able to do.

 

As a Houstonian, I'll agree Olajuwon is one of THE most impressive players at Center of all time. A physical freak with incredible intelligence and talent, and an incredibly nice guy to boot.

 

I'm not sure if I'd give him ALL the credit to our championships, however. There's a reason why, a decade afterwards, Sam Cassell and Robert Horry were still seeing respectable playing time in the league. Oh, and the second year we won we had that guy by the name of Clyde Drexler, who was nothing short of phenomenal. I think the real shocker is that we only had the two... looking back, it's hard to believe a coach like Rudy T couldn't have lead a group headed by Olajuwon, Drexler, and Barkley to a championship. That said, I seriously doubt we would've even had those two without Hakeem. Still... him and two other future HoFers in their prime and we couldn't pull one more out? The hell.

 

Oh well, it was fun times.

[lazorbeak]

Im not talking about pure statistics. Lebron can put up triple double numbers without hardly breaking a sweat. Lebron puts up numbers better than Magic Johnson playing in a slow paced offense.

 

Magic averaged 12 assists a year while LeBron had his best season ever with 8: that's a pretty wide margin. And again, Magic was able to guard a bigger range of players and while he wasn't nearly the scorer in terms of volume, again, his offensive efficiency is significantly higher than James.

 

We don't know what he can do in terms of other stats but someone his strength should be a lot better at guarding 4's, should have quicker hands/more steals, and should be able to get more than one block a game. But it's not really "talent" until he shows it. Until then it's just "potential."

 

Agree with that entire post, but just wanted to point out that a guy who won Defensive Player of the Year and was first team all defense 9 times can't really be called "underrated"

 

Fans nowadays are just too quick to make the MJ comparison w/o really understanding how good he was. Lebron isn't in his league. Neither is Kobe really.

 

Well I know how good he was, but his offense was so good it overshadowed his defense to the point that today his defense isn't as well-known. When you just look at the numbers it really comes out that there is nobody in the league today that could touch him. I mean, in the 88-89 season he averaged 32 points, 8 rebounds, 8 assists, and 3 steals a game while shooting 54% as a shooting guard. That's unreal. For comparison, zero players scored that much this season, Andre Iguodala led all Shooting Guards with 6.5 rebounds a game, six guys (none of them Shooting Guards) averaged more than 8 assists, no one averaged as many steals, and 9 guys, all of them centers or power forwards averaged more than 54% from the field: Ray Allen led all shooting guards at 47.7%.

 

And while those numbers were peaks in rebounding and assists for Jordan, they were about statistically average with his scoring, stealing, and FG%. I mean Kobe's a great player and a future hall of famer, but he's not nearly as good in any of those stat categories.

[lazorbeak]

As a Houstonian, I'll agree Olajuwon is one of THE most impressive players at Center of all time. A physical freak with incredible intelligence and talent, and an incredibly nice guy to boot.

 

I'm not sure if I'd give him ALL the credit to our championships, however. There's a reason why, a decade afterwards, Sam Cassell and Robert Horry were still seeing respectable playing time in the league. Oh, and the second year we won we had that guy by the name of Clyde Drexler, who was nothing short of phenomenal. I think the real shocker is that we only had the two... looking back, it's hard to believe a coach like Rudy T couldn't have lead a group headed by Olajuwon, Drexler, and Barkley to a championship. That said, I seriously doubt we would've even had those two without Hakeem. Still... him and two other future HoFers in their prime and we couldn't pull one more out? The hell.

 

Oh well, it was fun times.

 

Yeah I'm also living in Houston so I'm familiar with the topic, which is why I said he was the one superstar, which he was. Kenny Smith was a great outside shooter, Otis Thorpe was a very good power forward, and Cassell and Horry would make big contributions in the playoffs and go on to have successful careers, but that first title, it was all about Hakeem: he simply could not be stopped: everybody else was role players getting open off double teams.

 

By the time the Rockets got Barkley he was already 33 years old and really had one good season left in him. Plus since both Kenny Smith and Cassell were gone the team was really weak at the point.

[Slagaholic]

LeBron isn't MJ, he isn't that great of a scorer. He's a freak and a great finisher. But he isn't very good at creating a shot (or making a shot) which is the most important aspect of being a scorer. I think he's closer to Magic since he's is an amazing playmaker. I think that LeBron runs point in Miami. Wade is a great scorer, LeBron is a great playmaker. Put them both together and you can't defend them. Not to mention Bosh.

 

LeBron

Wade

Miller

Bosh

Really big white guy

 

Recipe for success.

[jbergey_2005]

LeBron isn't MJ, he isn't that great of a scorer. He's a freak and a great finisher. But he isn't very good at creating a shot (or making a shot) which is the most important aspect of being a scorer. I think he's closer to Magic since he's is an amazing playmaker. I think that LeBron runs point in Miami. Wade is a great scorer, LeBron is a great playmaker. Put them both together and you can't defend them. Not to mention Bosh.

 

LeBron

Wade

Miller

Bosh

Really big white guy

 

Recipe for success.

 

James wont run the point. Wade will play the 2 and James will play the 3. I expect Miller to come off the bench while Chalmers plays the point. If Miller starts Wade will play the point.

 

I have a hard time believing you have seem much of James play if you dont think he can create his own shot. He can get a shot whenever he wants. Im not sure what a great scorer is anymore it seems. James is 1st among active players in points per game. Wade and James are pretty much the same player except James is a half foot taller.

[Slagaholic]

Don't be shocked to have LeBron run point in the 4th quarter of close games.

 

You accuse me of not watching LeBron play and tell me that he and Wade are pretty much the same player.

 

I LOL at you!

[jbergey_2005]

Don't be shocked to have LeBron run point in the 4th quarter of close games.

 

You accuse me of not watching LeBron play and tell me that he and Wade are pretty much the same player.

 

I LOL at you!

 

Tell me the difference then big shot? They both gamble and make a lot of steals on defense, they both can cover up for mistakes by blocking shots. IN fact Wade is probably the best I have ever seen at blocking shots for his size.

 

On offense they both use ball screens to look for penetration lanes to get to the hoop. Wade has a slightly better mid range shot while James has more range but isnt consistent. They use penetration to open up passing lanes to get other players open and are both capable rebounders. They are probably the 2 best finishers in the game. They are both average FT shooters.

 

James is better at exploiting matchups because of his size but Wade has always seemed like a player you can depend on late in the game. In other words the size of James and the heart of Wade are the two biggest differences I see in the two.

 

Please tell me what I have missed that you have seen?

 

And of course James will have the ball in his hands in 4th quarters of close games. That isnt some new development. Im sure Wade and James will both see a lot of ball late in close games depending on who is making more shots. Its a nice situation they have.

[lazorbeak]

Tell me the difference then big shot? They both gamble and make a lot of steals on defense, they both can cover up for mistakes by blocking shots. IN fact Wade is probably the best I have ever seen at blocking shots for his size.

 

On offense they both use ball screens to look for penetration lanes to get to the hoop. Wade has a slightly better mid range shot while James has more range but isnt consistent. They use penetration to open up passing lanes to get other players open and are both capable rebounders. They are probably the 2 best finishers in the game. They are both average FT shooters.

 

James is better at exploiting matchups because of his size but Wade has always seemed like a player you can depend on late in the game. In other words the size of James and the heart of Wade are the two biggest differences I see in the two.

 

Please tell me what I have missed that you have seen?

 

And of course James will have the ball in his hands in 4th quarters of close games. That isnt some new development. Im sure Wade and James will both see a lot of ball late in close games depending on who is making more shots. Its a nice situation they have.

 

They are similar players and you did a good job pointing out the similarities. For me, LeBron is obviously more physically gifted: he is far stronger and able to take a beating that Wade cannot take. Wade's health is obviously a bigger concern than LeBron's. But I completely agree with you about Wade having a bigger heart. The fact that he averages similar numbers in points, assists, and blocks(!) despite not having the body LeBron has is extremely impressive. He's also had to develop a slightly better move-set off the dribble and improved his shooting significantly from when he came into the league. But he's a special player in terms of heart. He willed the Heat back into those Finals.

[jbergey_2005]

Correct

 

The biggest reason I am bitter about this signing is Wade is my favoritie player in the NBA. As much as I wanted to see him get help I didnt want Lebron on his team because it will overshadow how great of a player DWade is. I wanted them on seperate teams so in 5-10 years they could be judged individually. Sorry if Ive come accross the wrong way in this thread.

[MattitudeV2]

Correct

 

The biggest reason I am bitter about this signing is Wade is my favoritie player in the NBA. As much as I wanted to see him get help I didnt want Lebron on his team because it will overshadow how great of a player DWade is. I wanted them on seperate teams so in 5-10 years they could be judged individually. Sorry if Ive come accross the wrong way in this thread.

 

Don't worry about it if anything Lebron and Bosh have to prove how great they are not D-Wade because he already has a ring...

[PeterHilton]

Bill Simmons' most recent column on espn.com featuring letters from fans reacting to te "LeBacle"

 

Lots of emotional responses.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/100709

 

Two that caught my eye:

 

Name: Frank

I'm trying to figure out where I've had a feeling like this before. Then I remembered: This reminds me of Hulk Hogan at the moment he drops the big boot on the Macho Man Randy Savage to team with the Outsiders (Scott Hall and Kevin Nash) and essentially form the nWo. These are the only two times when I have said to myself "No! Why are you doing this! Evil! Evil! EVILLLL!"

 

City: Chicago

 

Because we here on the boards made the same nWo connection and

 

Name: Matt

You know what made me laugh just now? Joe Johnson came away with the biggest contract of the 2010 Free Agency Frenzy.

 

City: Redmond, Wash.

 

Because that's pretty LOL

[Jaysin]

Hahaha I just saw a tweet someone sent to The Miz, it reads:

on behalf of all cleveland fans.THANK YOU FOR BRINGIN MORE CHAMPIONSHIPS THAN LEBRON JAMES TO CLEVELAND

 

That was pretty darn funny to me.

[BHK1978]

Thought this was funny, it seems Jesse Jackson is up to his old attention getting tricks again.

 

How anybody could ever take him seriously is beyond me.

[LiquidSwords]

I'm surprised Al Sharpton has not said anything yet. Both of these clowns don't do anything important unless it benefits them.

[Tha Black Phenom]

Jordan Farmar and the Nets agree to a deal.

 

And it seems the Phoenix Suns will acquire Turkoglu and free-agent Josh Childress.

[PeterHilton]

I actually like both moves. If Hedo has anything left in the tank, he's a perfect fit in that system. And Childress gives them a young point guard to possibly replace Nash.

 

They moved Barbosa to Toronto, and more intestingly, the Raptors also moved to aquire Boris Diaw. ( A Suns reunion i guess)

[maskedpropaganda]

The Dino's trade confuses me... so Hedo and Jose go where? O - and I am pretty positive Childress isn't a point guard. I think he is a versatile forward can play some guard but I think small forward is his natural position. Could be wrong course.

 

EDIT: Alright I got it. Didn't see the Chandler part Jose goes to Charlotte and probably some other piece or cash or picks or something I would imagine to even it out a bit.

[Imarevenant]

Yeah, Childress' natural position is more small forward although he's played shooting guard as well. But in no way is he a point and shouldn't even be considered there even as a backup.

[PeterHilton]

The Dino's trade confuses me... so Hedo and Jose go where? O - and I am pretty positive Childress isn't a point guard. I think he is a versatile forward can play some guard but I think small forward is his natural position. Could be wrong course.

 

Well heod goes to Phoenix..i doubt Jose is going to lose his spot to Barbosa.

 

 

 

Yeah, Childress' natural position is more small forward although he's played shooting guard as well. But in no way is he a point and shouldn't even be considered there even as a backup.

 

 

Yeah you guys are both right. brain fart. My bad.

[lazorbeak]

I actually like both moves. If Hedo has anything left in the tank, he's a perfect fit in that system. And Childress gives them a young point guard to possibly replace Nash.

 

They moved Barbosa to Toronto, and more intestingly, the Raptors also moved to aquire Boris Diaw. ( A Suns reunion i guess)

 

As already mentioned, Childress isn't a point guard but a swingman, and Goran Dragic's performance against the Spurs seems to indicate at least right now he's Steve Nash's replacement off the bench.

 

I am curious to see how Childress plays after being in Europe for two years. He's never been a high volume shooter but he's always been good at making open shots. I think the Suns are the perfect transition from Europe since they play such a wide open style, and it'd be nice if he could put up Marion type numbers on offense.

 

Hedo's a good fit for the team, but at their age and with their holes on defense and in the middle I'd expect something closer to Chris Mullin's Warriors: a team that will score points and present matchup problems without ever really challenging anyone in the post-season.

[jbergey_2005]

Wow this has gotten crazy. ESPN poll question today.

 

Who has done more to damage their reputation in the past year?

A Tiger Woods

B Lebron James

 

That is just insane. I dont agree with the decision he made and dont respect how he did it but I am not sure how these are even comparable.

[GatorBait19]

Wow this has gotten crazy. ESPN poll question today.

 

Who has done more to damage their reputation in the past year?

A Tiger Woods

B Lebron James

 

That is just insane. I dont agree with the decision he made and dont respect how he did it but I am not sure how these are even comparable.

 

hm one man left his home states' team for a chance to win a bunch of titles. The other man decide that just like golf he need more championships in his personal life......... I would assume option 2