Using Statistics and the C-Verse to Build Better Mods

[lazorbeak]

I appreciate that building a mod is a lot of hard work, but one thing I don't see used very often is using statistical data as a reference point between new mods and the C-Verse. In a few minutes in Excel I can find the weak points of any mod's stat distribution. In the same way, I can use the C-Verse as a reference point for what defines a style or a worker so as to more effectively establish where a worker's stats should be. This doesn't mean stats have to be identical to the C-Verse: the real world is the C-Verse's inspiration, but it's certainly evolved as Adam has developed the game. However, the C-Verse does paint a clear picture of how workers stats should look. It also provides a good balance of workers at every level, from hot young prospects to old, broken down wastes of space.

 

 

In the macro, my favorite function type is countif, which you can use to find out how many workers have at least a 90 in star quality, or at least a 75 in basics, or whatever. This is extremely useful because it shows how the game is balanced. I can easily see how rare a stat like 90 or above should be, how rare an 80 should be, etc. To continue with my example, 30 active North American workers in the C-Verse, or about 1 in every 20 have at least a 90, from relative no-name indy guys (DWN, Kirk Jameson), to top workers like Rocky Golden, Remo, and of course, Big Smack Scott.

 

You can also use more simple functions like "median" and "quartile" to find the mid-point for any stat (more useful as averages get skewed by the workers at the top or at the bottom), or how many workers fall into a given quarter. This is also useful for correcting stats where the entire scale is off, as it gives you certain core baselines. For instance, in the C-verse North America, the median star quality is 63. In one current mod, the median star quality is 44, meaning the stat is on average 19 points lower. The third quartile cut-off on the C-Verse is 75, meaning anyone with a 75 or above has top quarter star quality, while in the same mod, the cut-off is only 56. What this means is there isn't nearly the same star quality distribution in the mod that we would expect to see in the C-Verse. Checking the data confirms that only a select few of proven commodities has a star quality over 80, and only the top handful of guys have star quality over 90, 37 workers shy of what would be the same percentage in the C-Verse.

 

If you were to find the total active North American workers and multiplied it by the C-Verse percent, you'd have a rough estimate on how many workers would have at least a 90 to keep a roughly equivalent talent distribution. You can also countif the modded database and compare the two numbers to see how close you are for every stat. This is extremely useful at finding if there's one particular stat that's significantly higher or lower than your other stats.

 

This statistical analysis might sound intimidating, but it quickly and accurately tells you how close you are to the balance of the default game world. If it's your goal as a mod-maker to make things harder, you would expect slightly lower values, and if you have a game world where A* matches are falling off trees, you would expect to find higher values than the C-Verse. That comes down to personal preference, but this way things like complaints that the game is "harder" is actually measurable.

 

I can also use the same tools in the micro to see what, exactly, the c-verse thinks a worker's stats should be, based on similarly skilled individuals. Say I want a ballpark of where Husky Harris' stats should be. I can go to the C-Verse data, filter to either heavyweight (Husky is listed at 295, inside the 290-320 range for heavyweights according to the help file) or big heavyweight (since Husky's big and fat his size may be this rather than the more standard weight), filter the age range to between 20 and 25 to find young workers, and I get 14 hits for heavyweight and 16 for big heavyweight. These make good reference points because they tell me most of these guys have brawling in the 45-55 range, aerial either at close to 0 or in the 10-20 range, etc. I can also compare him against what the game considers a blue chipper (Nicky Champion), or a raw prospect (Primus Allen), or dead weight (Buzz Reid). Personally I'd rank Husky as being behind surefire stars who have star quality in the 80's or above, and around the same level as a henchman type guy like Jesus Chavez. There's still some subjectivity involved, but it's fitting a frame, not picking numbers and making some attempt at consistency.

 

Anyway Adam provided this easy export to excel option, so it makes analyzing these stats and comparing them remarkably easy. I'll post some other tips I have for measuring mods against the C-Verse using data. If anyone has any questions or other uses, please post them here.

[Hive]

You have some good points, and the statistical examples you provide are interesting. But it seems there's something you haven't considered: people may actually not want their mod to run like the C-verse runs. I mean, just because it's the default database that comes with the game doesn't mean that it's the only way a database can be built.

 

While you, and probably many others as well, may play a mod and say "this doesn't play out like the C-verse at all, it's crap" - there may be others who actually appreciate that fact, and see it as a strong point. A mod is, after all, supposed to give the player something *different* than the standard vanilla game.

[lazorbeak]

You have some good points, and the statistical examples you provide are interesting. But it seems there's something you haven't considered: people may actually not want their mod to run like the C-verse runs. I mean, just because it's the default database that comes with the game doesn't mean that it's the only way a database can be built.

 

No, it just means that it was built that way by the designer of the game in his attempt to make a fun fictional universe that used the real world as a base. Maybe some people do just want a WWE simulator with a database of 150 workers, and maybe people want a game that is far more challenging (although I've rarely heard the C-Verse referred to as "too easy"), but either way, I'm talking about using data to measure to what extent a mod is similar to the database that was designed by the same person/people who made the game in the first place. I'm not saying "this is the only way to make a mod" or that all mods must conform to the C-Verse, but the C-Verse is a very well-balanced database that any other data can be compared with.

[Remianen]

You have some good points, and the statistical examples you provide are interesting. But it seems there's something you haven't considered: people may actually not want their mod to run like the C-verse runs. I mean, just because it's the default database that comes with the game doesn't mean that it's the only way a database can be built.

 

While you, and probably many others as well, may play a mod and say "this doesn't play out like the C-verse at all, it's crap" - there may be others who actually appreciate that fact, and see it as a strong point. A mod is, after all, supposed to give the player something *different* than the standard vanilla game.

 

While I agree with you to an extent (a mod is supposed to differ from 'the norm'), I think you're misunderstanding lazorbeak's intent. We have only to go back to say TEW08 or 07 where mods were released with crazy happenings (like WWE falling to Cult in year 1 or TNA jumping to Global...or both) where, as a result of people not knowing how the game works, their data wound up faulty and wouldn't work the way they intended. Many of those problems were caused by faulty ratings on many workers. Using the C-Verse as a base allows a modmaker to create a mod that does what they want it to do. Much like lazorbeak pointed out using difficulty, a mod that's meant to play "faster" than the C-Verse (with promotion growth and worker movement occurring more frequently and such) can be created to do exactly that.

 

It's not about judging a mod harshly because it doesn't play like the C-Verse. A mod can be judged harshly because it doesn't work within the confines of the game's engine. The best way to prevent that from occurring is to use the one set of data known to work flawlessly with the engine, as a blueprint from which to build.

[lazorbeak]

It's not about judging a mod harshly because it doesn't play like the C-Verse. A mod can be judged harshly because it doesn't work within the confines of the game's engine. The best way to prevent that from occurring is to use the one set of data known to work flawlessly with the engine, as a blueprint from which to build.

 

Exactly! Okay, on to more number crunching!

 

I believe probably the most consistent way to build a mod is to start at the top and work down, that is, rather than pick Husky Harris as your baseline worker, you pick guys at the top of various stats or top promotions and then move down the ladder. Using the C-Verses big two North American promotions, I can quickly come up with some baseline values as far as what I can expect from a worker who is on National TV every week. I filtered for both TCW and SWF and combined them into one spreadsheet, then ran the median formula on them to find out what a standard worker in a major promotion's skills look like. The amount of increase over the standard median worker is in parenthesis.

 

Brawling: 62 (+18)

Aerial: 32.5 (+2.5)

Mat: 44 (+9)

Chain: 50 (+8)

Submission: 29 (+4)

Mic: 65 (+16)

Charisma: 72.5 (+12.5)

Acting: 67 (+16)

Basics: 78 (+7)

Psychology: 70 (+14)

Safety: 73.5 (+6.5)

Consistency: 79.5 (+5.5)

Selling: 68.5 (+6.5)

Sex Appeal: 45 (+3)

Star Quality: 78 (+15)

Menace: 54 (+16)

Respect: 63.5 (+23.5)

 

So while the median worker for SWF or TCW is better than the median worker generally in every category, you see the biggest increases in brawling, camera skills, and entertainment skills, which makes complete sense considering both company's main events largely showcase brawlers and tend to showcase guys with high camera and entertainment skills.

 

Remember, as a median value, over half the active roster is better than this. Joshua Taylor is a very good example of a wrestler who fits these stats almost completely. Tommy Cornell is essentially an outlier he's so far above them (balanced by Big Smack Scott and Everest). However, a guy like Christian Faith is actually below median on every top row stat, but his entertainment and performance skills are so good that even with only mid-level brawling he's still one of SWF's most valuable workers.

 

Again, I'm not saying any mod-maker HAS TO conform to this, but this is what a medium level worker on national TV every week looks like in the default database.

[crayon]

I can appreciate using statistics to benefit a mod (albeit that I know little of statistical analysis, and what I do know of it seems unbearably boring--not a knock, just my own tastes), and I'd love to have some kind of cliff notes as to how the c-verse is laid out, but I guess having to download, install, learn, and keep referring to a spreadsheet program while I create the gameworld is a barrier that I doubt I could make the leap for.

 

One of my older suggestions was that we be able to list workers, visually split up by grade tiers (which by extension should allow for percentile breakdowns). It may not be that flexible and I may need to defer to calc.exe but I think it'd let me get a little closer to implementing lazorbeak's analysis techniques.

 

Still, more power to anyone who does use this device as a guideline

[PeterHilton]

Call me crazy, but wasn't there a thread where someone did this kind of statistical breakdown of the CVerse? He even embedded a bunch of drop-down lists so you could go through and examine the various ratings.

[PeterHilton]

yeah, this is the thread I meant:

 

http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showthread.php?t=73165&highlight=statistics

 

Not to steal lazor's thunder (because I think his point is correct) but I figured if someone has already done some work, it's worth having in one place. Honestly, it should be pinned imo.

[crayon]

yeah, this is the thread I meant:

 

http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showthread.php?t=73165&highlight=statistics

 

Not to steal lazor's thunder (because I think his point is correct) but I figured if someone has already done some work, it's worth having in one place. Honestly, it should be pinned imo.

 

Oh yeah, I remember that from ages back!

 

Agreed that one place would be a good idea, although lazorbeak's information is equally useful as he's giving out the techniques to apply to ones own data

[lazorbeak]

yeah, this is the thread I meant:

 

http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showthread.php?t=73165&highlight=statistics

 

Not to steal lazor's thunder (because I think his point is correct) but I figured if someone has already done some work, it's worth having in one place. Honestly, it should be pinned imo.

 

Hey no problem, I haven't seen this thread but I'm glad somebody else has done a little work playing with the C-Verse numbers. I'm not using exactly the same formulas and my approach is a little different, but his work is definitely a useful resource.

[lazorbeak]

Moving on!

 

 

Star Quality breakdown of North American active workers:

95-100: 11 (2.1%)

90-94: 19 (3.6%)

85-89: 24 (4.6%)

80-84: 42 (8.0%)

75-79: 36 (6.9%)

70-74: 57 (10.9%)

65-69: 58 (11.1%)

60-64: 46 (8.9%)

55-59: 28 (5.4%)

51-55: 44 (8.4%)

 

These add up to about 70% of the C-Verse workers. The median for the entire data set is 63.

 

This is important for mod-makers as star quality in the C-Verse is significantly higher than most other median stats and that carries through all the way to the top. While only the top brawler in the world rates a 90 brawling, nearly a dozen workers have a 95 or better, and 5 have a star quality of 100. As mentioned previously, star quality affects everything from AI signing to ease of gaining overness, especially for the AI's matches. It's also worth noting that among these top 11 workers, two are female and none are over age 37. Expanding the list to all potential workers includes a couple of old guys, Bruce the Giant and Sam Strong as still being 100's, while Dawn the Cheerleader pulls a 95 star quality. It's interesting that while women tend to have lower median stats, in the C-Verse at least, they make up a decent portion of the top overall star quality workers. Not surprisingly, they completely dominate the top scores in the sex appeal score. Bizarrely, not all mods seem to reflect this.

[ZMAN]

I've always wanted to see a mod which relies heavily on statistics and game balance rather than realism, along with some c-verse style profiles, story and organization. I've been hoping for it since they started making those RW mods back in (2005?), but I don't ever see it happening. The current RW mods are fine though, I enjoy them every now and then. IMO, the current RW mods are mostly just for fantasy booking. I've never really been inspired by them to see how far I can take a promotion. And I think that's the biggest difference between RW mods and C-verse. RW = fantasy booking CVerse = the biz.

 

I'm sure someone will jump in and talk about how they took TNA into 2015, and gave Joe the Title for 20 months. W/E, i'm just giving my own opinion. In my opinion, Cverse is more fun to play long-term than the current RW mods.

 

Lastly,

 

-No, I can't make the mod myself, I got too much on my plate as it is.

-No, I'm not complaining. I could care less if a mod to my liking ever gets released. Like I said, I can live with the current RW mods, but they don't compare to the fun to be had with CV.

[LordJaguar]

I seriously think you need to put up stats for workers attitudes because in the few RW mods I have played all the non famous and some famous workers seem to be : humble, ruthless, optimistic, manipulative, extremly flaky, and mercenary : I just don't see that many people being extremly flaky...realistically how many people are extremely flaky at your job?

[hellshock70]

I seriously think you need to put up stats for workers attitudes because in the few RW mods I have played all the non famous and some famous workers seem to be : humble, ruthless, optimistic, manipulative, extremly flaky, and mercenary : I just don't see that many people being extremly flaky...realistically how many people are extremely flaky at your job?

 

Ever been to a show at a bar or an armory?

 

The guys that work those are pretty flaky. And they tend to work for 5 local promotions or more.

 

You want their loyalty? Pay them more than the other 4 guys.

 

For the lowest level indy workers? Humble, ruthless, optimistic, manipulative, extremly flaky, and mercenary is pretty accurate.

[Remianen]

I seriously think you need to put up stats for workers attitudes because in the few RW mods I have played all the non famous and some famous workers seem to be : humble, ruthless, optimistic, manipulative, extremly flaky, and mercenary : I just don't see that many people being extremly flaky...realistically how many people are extremely flaky at your job?

 

That's because that's the default personality when you convert from a version prior to Personality Plus. You get that if the modmaker did nothing to a worker's personality (which is often the case, and rightfully so). I chose to err on the other side and give young workers a 'rookie' or 'class act' personality, figuring that it'll change as their careers develop.

 

Many mods use the same handful of mods as a base, with just updating required. It's not like everyone is adding WWE's workers individually by hand. No, you take an existing mod and import the usual suspects and then hand add the newbies or people who aren't in that dataset (or not, in the case of the women ).

 

Ever been to a show at a bar or an armory?

 

The guys that work those are pretty flaky. And they tend to work for 5 local promotions or more.

 

You want their loyalty? Pay them more than the other 4 guys.

 

For the lowest level indy workers? Humble, ruthless, optimistic, manipulative, extremly flaky, and mercenary is pretty accurate.

 

Yes yes hellshock but that's not the case for people who aren't the 'lowest level indy workers'. Hell, I'm not gonna be loyal to you for fifty bucks either! The problem is, many/most modmakers don't know (or know OF) the vast majority of the workers in a given mod so they just skip doing that part. Fact of life though it's a shame because personality can have definite effects on worker development. No one wants to sign the green rookie who asks for established midcarder money (or travel expenses....in the area they're based in!), not even the "stupid" AI.

[ewanite]

Hey another maths geek! I remember helping stat guys balance their mods a bit a long time ago

[hellshock70]

Yes yes hellshock but that's not the case for people who aren't the 'lowest level indy workers'. Hell, I'm not gonna be loyal to you for fifty bucks either! The problem is, many/most modmakers don't know (or know OF) the vast majority of the workers in a given mod so they just skip doing that part. Fact of life though it's a shame because personality can have definite effects on worker development. No one wants to sign the green rookie who asks for established midcarder money (or travel expenses....in the area they're based in!), not even the "stupid" AI.

 

Sad thing is some of those guys/girls now pull in up to $500 a show and still display that attitude.

 

Another sad thing is I know a ref from Virginia who ran a show in High Point, North Carolina, paid his champions well over inflated travel expenses ($100) from Eden, North Carolina and paid for his room ($200) that night. The guy could have been home in less than an hour. Even the man who handled the champs booking that night told him he was crazy.

 

Btw, I'm stoked, 4 of my friends and former students recently attended the OVW tryout camp. One is a 400+ pounder who can successfully execute a standing moonsault.

 

Sad thing again, all 4 have some of those aforementioned qualities.

[lazorbeak]

I've always wanted to see a mod which relies heavily on statistics and game balance rather than realism, along with some c-verse style profiles, story and organization. I've been hoping for it since they started making those RW mods back in (2005?), but I don't ever see it happening. The current RW mods are fine though, I enjoy them every now and then. IMO, the current RW mods are mostly just for fantasy booking. I've never really been inspired by them to see how far I can take a promotion. And I think that's the biggest difference between RW mods and C-verse. RW = fantasy booking CVerse = the biz.

 

Some good points here. One of the great things about TEW is Adam was able to build a game world from scratch; there aren't complaints that TCW's product isn't quite right or that Jack Bruce's brawl stat should obviously be an 80. By the same token, every worker in the database is in the game for a reason. There may not be the volume of workers you'd get in a RW mod that includes literally every person that has wrestled a match, but there's far, far less repetition/workers who contribute nothing.

 

A mod that wants to use the C-Verse as a statistical reference (aka balance as a game, not necessarily as a 100% accurate portrait of real life) therefore needs to focus more on why a worker should be in the database. Again, the C-Verse makes a good reference point: the game features every worker currently employed by stable promotions as well as their recent alumni, new wrestlers, and a few big name retirees for HOI/title history purposes.

 

Here's a quick table of unemployment figures in the starting data:

 

Unemployed workers by region ("based in" values only), active wrestlers in parenthesis:

 

USA: 141 (75 active)

Canada: 62 (36 active)

Mexico: 74 (47 active)

UK: 62 (33 active)

Japan: 125 (84 active)

Europe: 56 (41 active)

Australia: 109 (63 active)

 

Total Unemployed workers: 629 (379 active wrestlers)

 

Employed workers: 1644 (757 active wrestlers)

 

This means that 72% of all workers in the game start off employed by a stable company, along with about 67% of the game's total active wrestlers. In the US employment is even better, as there are 329 active wrestlers that have debuted, and 254 of them start the game with jobs with a stable promotion. That's less than 1/4 unemployment! What's left is a combination of veteran guys with known connections to stable promotions (Randall Hopkirk), young up-and-comers of varying skill, veteran role players, and joke workers. And all of these active workers put together are less than 1/4 of the number of workers that are already in the game working for a name promotion.

 

What does this mean to mod-makers? Simply put, if a guy (or girl) has no value to a mod other than passing a quick check that yes, at one time he did wrestle people, maybe it's time to re-evaluate whether he belongs in your mod. Obviously the rosters of your big promotions are in, as well as guys they've released within the year, especially if they are still valuable/remain active (Shelton Benjamin is a higher priority than the NXT announcer chick), but beyond that, if they are either obscure (no longer actively wrestling anywhere) or redundant (how many small, mediocre cruiserweights with low skills and no overness do you need? How many diva search losers that are out of the business?), maybe they shouldn't be in the mod.

 

Why do unemployment numbers matter?

Because promotions at the top are going to hire from the middle, not the bottom. The promotions in the middle are far more likely to take workers from the low level promotions. When the low level promotion's top talent leaves, they need to replace them with unemployed workers. If the unemployment pool is relatively small, you see new guys getting picked up straight out of training camp and rising up the ladder, exactly as you would expect to see in reality.

 

If the wrestler pool is large, the cream of the crop will still rise, but you're left with a festering pit of dozens if not hundreds of unemployed or unemployable workers that 1) add nothing, 2) slow down load times and 3) prevent borderline prospects from working on their skills at regular indy shows, and 4) throw off your other data tables by having a bunch of unhire-able lumps populating the low end of the curve, lowering your median and quartile figures on any macro data check.

[crayon]

lowering your median and quartile figures on any macro data check.

 

Buwuh? What does that interpret to for us commoner folk?

[lazorbeak]

Buwuh? What does that interpret to for us commoner folk?

 

The tools I mentioned in my first post for comparing data: median is the middle number, quartile is the 25% or 75% number. Having too many workers with no value lowers these numbers, and can cause your data to look lower than the C-Verse, even when it's well-balanced at the top. That's why I like the countif function, because it just counts how many workers have at least an 80, at least a 75, etc., so it's not going to be thrown off by too many workers with terrible stats.

 

 

Again, the point is every unemployed worker should be in the game for a reason. Either they have some name recognition from working for another promotion, have some historic significance, have some valuable skill, whether it be decent stats, a good look, or whatever, or they are joke/challenge wrestlers that are fun to get over. But having a bunch of no-name guys can clog up your game in a number of negative ways.

[crayon]

The tools I mentioned in my first post for comparing data: median is the middle number, quartile is the 25% or 75% number. Having too many workers with no value lowers these numbers, and can cause your data to look lower than the C-Verse, even when it's well-balanced at the top. That's why I like the countif function, because it just counts how many workers have at least an 80, at least a 75, etc., so it's not going to be thrown off by too many workers with terrible stats.

 

Ah true that. I'd managed to forget everything complicated sounding in that first post by the time I got down to the last (although I did at least know what the median was--it's just them all jumbled up together in one string).

 

Again, the point is every unemployed worker should be in the game for a reason. Either they have some name recognition from working for another promotion, have some historic significance, have some valuable skill, whether it be decent stats, a good look, or whatever, or they are joke/challenge wrestlers that are fun to get over. But having a bunch of no-name guys can clog up your game in a number of negative ways.

 

And this is why we need a wiki for modders

 

I mean it probably doesn't affect my mod, since it's primarily for fantasy "what-if" booking, not so much a smooth functioning gameworld--but if you haven't seen all these sporadic threads of information over the years it's tough to know how the game expects things to functions, and easy to just assume it'll handle whatever variables you throw at it, given it does everything else so well.

[lazorbeak]

Back to Basics

 

According to the help file, the basics stat represents a worker's "ability and training level at the basics of wrestling like footwork."

 

10 North American active wrestlers start the game with a perfect 100 for basics: Tommy Cornell, Dan Stone Jr., Christian Faith, Jeremy Stone, Dark Angel, Sam Keith, Duane Stone, Enforcer Roberts, Joel Bryant, and Steve Flash. What do these 10 have in common, aside from being 10 of the best wrestlers in the game? For one thing, the youngest (Cornell) is 31. The 10 workers have combined for 9 wrestler of the year awards in-universe. Basics may be the best measure of representing an elite worker: it's one stat that literally every great worker in the C-Verse has in abundance.

 

In North America, 40 wrestlers have at least a 90 in basics: for reference, more wrestlers have a 90 in basics than a 90 in any other stat. Sean Deeley is the youngest at 24, while Robert Oxford, Pistol Pete Hall and Sam Keith are pushing towards 50. The median age for these workers is 35, making it a stat more geared towards veterans.

 

The total median basics value is 71, meaning that even a middling wrestler should have pretty strong basics. Only consistency has a higher median (74) among performance stats. In SWF and TCW, basics is a must-have, with only one man having less than a 60 starting score (guess who), while nearly half the roster has an 80 or better (31 out of 70), while 15 wrestlers have a 90 or better. In fact, five wrestlers, or half of the total 100's, are employed by the big two, while three more work for NOTBPW and one is abroad in Japan. Steve Flash is the outlier as the only worker with perfect basics not working for a major promotion.

 

What this means for modders? Put simply, it means that elite workers can and probably should have 100's on a regular basis, especially veterans in major promotions and especially wrestler of the year/match of the year type guys. In a current day mod, guys like Undertaker and HBK should be shoe-ins for 100 basics. Even guys with mediocre to poor top row stats like Hogan should have very strong basics based on his experience. Additionally, long-serving veterans like Chavo Guerrero, Finlay, William Regal, Triple H, etc. would have very strong basics reflecting their decade of performing at high levels and thousands of worked matches. Don't worry if you don't want these guys to be stars in your mod: while basics is a stat that strongly factors into ring generals list, it is a relatively minor factor when it comes to who the AI strongly pushes. Very few games see TCW push Robert Oxford over Wolf Hawkins, despite Oxford's slightly superior basics, because Wolf has better charisma and star quality, better top row stats, and a positive relationship with the promotion's owner. In the same way, just because Chavo Guerrero should have better basics than, say, John Morrison or the Miz based on his additional 10 years of experience and training with his family from childhood, if Miz and Morrison have superior star quality and charisma, along with decent top row stats, they'll be seen as future stars while Chavo is limited to making low and medium level babyfaces look good.

[Self]

Good post that, lazerbeak. Enjoyed.

[Remianen]

It's interesting that while women tend to have lower median stats, in the C-Verse at least, they make up a decent portion of the top overall star quality workers. Not surprisingly, they completely dominate the top scores in the sex appeal score. Bizarrely, not all mods seem to reflect this.

 

YOU think this bizarre? Try being the dude that has to modify 200+ workers in almost EVERY RW mod before playing it because modmakers seem to think if a woman doesn't work for WWE or TNA, she can't have high sex appeal. There is at least one real world mod that I can think of that has MsChif rated with sub-40 sex appeal and Amazing Kong with well over 70. I KID YOU NOT. One thing that should also be mentioned is, by Adam's design, sex appeal is a stat for the young primarily (evidenced by women bleeding off sex appeal with age in many cases). So 40+ year old Lisa Moretti (Ivory), who was never known as a particularly stunning woman in her youth, is rated higher than the aforementioned MsChif and in the same ballpark as.....Rayna Von Tash?!? REALLY??? The trend I've noticed that basically amounts to "WWE diva = 70+ SA, Joshi or Lucha worker = sub-60" is annoying and flat out wrong. Fuuka (for example) has never been called a technical wizard in the ring and yet she's one of the most bankable joshi workers (able to successfully promote her own shows with HER as part of the main event). She makes her living largely ON HER LOOKS (such as they are), with a little wrestling tossed in. Kinda like...a WWE diva. Funny that.

 

What this means for modders? Put simply, it means that elite workers can and probably should have 100's on a regular basis, especially veterans in major promotions and especially wrestler of the year/match of the year type guys. In a current day mod, guys like Undertaker and HBK should be shoe-ins for 100 basics. Even guys with mediocre to poor top row stats like Hogan should have very strong basics based on his experience. Additionally, long-serving veterans like Chavo Guerrero, Finlay, William Regal, Triple H, etc. would have very strong basics reflecting their decade of performing at high levels and thousands of worked matches. Don't worry if you don't want these guys to be stars in your mod: while basics is a stat that strongly factors into ring generals list, it is a relatively minor factor when it comes to who the AI strongly pushes. Very few games see TCW push Robert Oxford over Wolf Hawkins, despite Oxford's slightly superior basics, because Wolf has better charisma and star quality, better top row stats, and a positive relationship with the promotion's owner. In the same way, just because Chavo Guerrero should have better basics than, say, John Morrison or the Miz based on his additional 10 years of experience and training with his family from childhood, if Miz and Morrison have superior star quality and charisma, along with decent top row stats, they'll be seen as future stars while Chavo is limited to making low and medium level babyfaces look good.

 

Basically, elite workers and "company men" or "career midcarders" will tend to have high basics. Who'd thunk it? This is another area where a lot of mods fall down. It means a worker like Lexie Fyfe or Malia Hosaka, should not have basics in the 50s! Leilani Kei and Eve Torres should not even be in the same galaxy as far as basics are concerned. One was working matches before the other's parents had even MET, just about!

 

When I rejiggered the C-Verse women, I used experience as justification for boosting some workers' performance skills while at the same time, separating the people I wanted to become the female versions of Wolf Hawkins and Marc Dubois and such by giving them what amounted to about 10 years worth of skill experience. It basically gives them a headstart in becoming what I intended for them to become (the vanguard of a resurgence). I didn't use the spreadsheet method (this time), instead doing all of my tallying by hand. I'm waiting to see if you came to the same conclusions as I did about psychology and selling.

[Genadi]

YOU think this bizarre? Try being the dude that has to modify 200+ workers in almost EVERY RW mod before playing it because modmakers seem to think if a woman doesn't work for WWE or TNA, she can't have high sex appeal. There is at least one real world mod that I can think of that has MsChif rated with sub-40 sex appeal and Amazing Kong with well over 70. I KID YOU NOT. One thing that should also be mentioned is, by Adam's design, sex appeal is a stat for the young primarily (evidenced by women bleeding off sex appeal with age in many cases). So 40+ year old Lisa Moretti (Ivory), who was never known as a particularly stunning woman in her youth, is rated higher than the aforementioned MsChif and in the same ballpark as.....Rayna Von Tash?!? REALLY??? The trend I've noticed that basically amounts to "WWE diva = 70+ SA, Joshi or Lucha worker = sub-60" is annoying and flat out wrong. Fuuka (for example) has never been called a technical wizard in the ring and yet she's one of the most bankable joshi workers (able to successfully promote her own shows with HER as part of the main event). She makes her living largely ON HER LOOKS (such as they are), with a little wrestling tossed in. Kinda like...a WWE diva. Funny that.

 

Most modders I know spend time modding things that people care about. 95% of people (from the feedback I've experienced over the years) don't care about women's wrestling and it's represented so. Prob why it looks like the modder thinks more highly of WWE workers is the fact that they've spent considerably more timeediting that promotion.

 

Same reason regions outside of the US rarely get the attention deserved.