Puroresu Thread

[Infernalmiko]

I'm really excited to see all the interest in Puroresu, so I'm posting my personal thoughts on how to handle it and some handy links and diaries.

 

1. Location Location Location.

 

The first choices on where to run cards in Japan are: Tokyo, Tokyo and Tokyo. With the exception of a small number of regional companies, everyone is based in Tokyo and everyone runs Tokyo. The reason is pretty easy to see. Japan has a population of 127 million. 32 million are within commuting distance of Tokyo. That's 25% of the nation's people crammed into a fairly small area. For perspective, New York and Los Angeles combined have a commute population of 34 million. Smaller promotions run hotspots like Shinjuku FACE or Shin-Kiba 1st Ring. The biggest companies have an annual megacard at the Tokyo Dome. But the most revered arena is Korakuen Hall. From the smallest indies up to the top companies everyone runs Korakuen and makes sure they have a good show for it.

 

However, despite this general rule there are a few successful regional feds out there. Michinoku Pro has prospered for since 1993 despite being based in the Sendai region. When Super Delfin broke away from Michinoku he moved south to form Osaka Pro. These small promotions are the exception, though. And where do you think Michinoku Pro goes when they have a big card? Korakuen Hall.

 

2. Loyalty/Respect

 

Big Papa does a good job going into this in his Burning Hammer thread, but I'll expand a little more.

Loyalty and respect are very important in puroresu, you'll see a bright start stay with a smaller promotion despite offers from big companies because he's loyal to the guys who trained him and gave him his chance to shine. Kota Ibushi, I'm looking at you! When you are running a puroresu promotion and hire a worker who is under 25 and unemployed he'll become loyal to you as will graduates of your dojo if you hire them.

 

By the same token, respect is important as well. Wrestlers who were important to the company in their primes are typically not simply fired and replaced, instead they are kept around, either to pass the torch or for special occasions. The old guys might not be great wrestlers now but your company would not be here without them, show a little respect!

 

3. Puroresu is serious business, except when it's not.

 

If you watch a title match in any of the big puroresu companies you are going to see a dead serious battle of skill and will. The wrestlers might wear flashy colors and play to the crowd, but the actual wrestling will be as intense and serious as the Superbowl or world title boxing match. There won't be any gimmicks or crazy stipulations, the fans expect to see an athletic contact and that's what they'll get.

 

However, once you start getting down into the realm of puroresu indy sleeze all bets are off. You might see a guy in a bug mask wrestling a biomechanical mummy.1 Or a vengeful spirit fighting the puroresu embodiment of curry. 98 lb weaklings will fire off invisible hadoukens and Danshoko Dino molests every guy in sight. In the wonderful world of puroresu indy sleeze anything is possible, including things you probably wish you didn't know were possible.

 

4. Face/Heel

 

Sometimes it seems like there are not faces or heels in Japan but this is not quite true. The default alignment for a wrestler is face but only in the sense most professional athletes count as faces. They are out there to compete, generally follow the rules, and represent the sport honorably. And then there are the other guys. There's not too many of them but fans of every sport know the few who cheat, try to injure their opponents and other sadistic and nefarious activity. Those are the heels in puroresu. They are violent, unhinged maniacs and sneaky and devious cheaters. They have no respect for the rules, for refs, or anyone else for that matter.

 

5. Puroresu Styles: King's Road or Strong Style?

 

Styles are partially of historical interest now. King's Road is mostly gone as the AJPW wrestlers who made it famous have broken down. But this article covers it very well. Just like every American wrestling company has it's own style, so does every Japanese company. But there are a few things you'll see in every nearly every puroresu promotion. The first is intensity. Whether the wrestler works for high flier like Michinoku Pro, a more technical style like New Japan or the heavy hitting of 90's AJPW, Japanese fans expect plenty of intensity and as a result the work ternds to be pretty stiff. And don't think this is limited to the men. One of my faovite quotes on Ayumi Kurihara was from Steve Corino, who wrestled her in an inter-gender tag match. "[Ayumi Kurihara] was beating the poop out of me! [Her forearm strikes] were killing me. I was like 'yo little Kawada girl, easy up'". The drawback to all this intensity is injuries. Wrestlers who work high intensity tend to need more time to recover between cards and if you are touring with more than one card per week this can become very noticeable.

 

Puroresu fans also expect clean and decisive finishes. This wasn't always true. Up to the 80's puroresu had just as many screwjobs and tainted endings as American wrestling, but then UWF came onto the scene with a pure style and clean finishes and the other promotions had to change to keep up. Heels still cheat, use foreign objects, get help from the outside. However, these shenanigans do not lead to a win and the referee will generally warn wrestlers endlessly instead of calling a DQ. In the last few years New Japan has begun to change this a little though. 99% of matches still end clean (and all titles matches do) but a few heels have for gimmicks that can win them matches or get them disqualified. Iizuka's Iron Fingers and Tajiri's Green Mist both count for this.

TEW Resources

Jaded's excellent guide to what thedirt sheet and road agent feedback means.

Jaded strikes again with a shortlist of positive and negative locker room influences in TEW.

 

TEW Puroresu Promotion Threads

BigPapa's supreme BHOTWG thread.

WLW from Teh Showtime.

Luchador Canadiense's BCG thread.

 

TEW Puroresu Diaries

TigerKinney continues his award winning DIASPORA diary.

Yuu Onuki's unique voice livens up her 5SSW diary.

FINisher does BCG and explores how TEW works.

derek B rocks Burning Hammer in the [8RoW] shared universe.

[Hawk1665]

This comes down to personal preference, but I really dislike seeing people playing a traditional puroresu promotion (PGHW, BCG, BHOWTG, etc) and not, well, doing it right. I see people doing big singles matches, tags, title matches, all kinds of things on their tour shows. When the tour system is really about doing smaller shows to build to a big one. That's why you'll see promotions run 1,000 seat venues to set up a 12,000 seat one. It's all build.

 

That's how I try to book in TEW. Tour shows are setup. Champion vs. Challengers at the next big show, both sides are put over leading to the big show. Then at the big show you have Big singles, big tag, matches to set up the next challengers, etc, etc.

 

But I also turn off momentum. Not because this style doesn't work with it, it does, but I just hate it.

[Phreak]

So, I'm still somewhat a novice when it comes to puro. I've got a fairly good grasp of the players, the styles, etc. But what I have a hard time with is the tour shows. I understand the purpose of them, but pulling them off is another matter. Is there a website or something that covers these? What does a typical tour show look like? Ideally I'd be wanting to look at at least a months worth of booking, if that exists out there.

[Hawk1665]

So, I'm still somewhat a novice when it comes to puro. I've got a fairly good grasp of the players, the styles, etc. But what I have a hard time with is the tour shows. I understand the purpose of them, but pulling them off is another matter. Is there a website or something that covers these? What does a typical tour show look like? Ideally I'd be wanting to look at at least a months worth of booking, if that exists out there.

 

http://www.puroresufan.com/njpw/

 

Covers New Japan, the biggest promotion in Japan (which now does IPPV for the entire world). Everything builds to the big show per month. In this case, it's the Tokyo Dome show on 1/04. Every person in a major match is protected so that the big matches in theory come across as bigger deals.

[Infernalmiko]

So, I'm still somewhat a novice when it comes to puro. I've got a fairly good grasp of the players, the styles, etc. But what I have a hard time with is the tour shows. I understand the purpose of them, but pulling them off is another matter. Is there a website or something that covers these? What does a typical tour show look like? Ideally I'd be wanting to look at at least a months worth of booking, if that exists out there.

 

This site has the results of the New Japan tours going back several years.

 

Edit: Aiya! Hawk beat me to it by seconds!

[Tigerkinney]

This comes down to personal preference, but I really dislike seeing people playing a traditional puroresu promotion (PGHW, BCG, BHOWTG, etc) and not, well, doing it right. I see people doing big singles matches, tags, title matches, all kinds of things on their tour shows. When the tour system is really about doing smaller shows to build to a big one. That's why you'll see promotions run 1,000 seat venues to set up a 12,000 seat one. It's all build.

 

You surely can't be referencing either of my DIASPORA (Thundeverse) or BHOTWG (Cornellverse) diaries that I did for TEW2010- because that's exactly how I book my shows. I might do the occasional singles title match at Korakuen Hall, but I'd never put one on in say Shikoku or even Chugoku for that matter.

 

Admittedly my first BHOTWG diary for TEW2008 did have that sort of big matches on every show booking, that you complained about, and for me as proud as I am of that diary, it is admittedly my weakest puroresu diary- simply because it wasn't at all realistic

 

But that was written before I had a real handle on what Puroresu actually was like, and was written from the perspective of an ROH fan who had been introduced to some Japanese wrestlers via they're then working agreements with Dragon Gate and NOAH.

 

The only wrestling I really watch these days is Puroresu , and even then I only really find the time to follow NJPW and Dragon Gate as much as I possibly can.

 

Here's a question- I always run a show in Shikoku for game purposes if I'm running a promotion that is at cult or higher- but does anyone actually ever run a show there in real life?

[Hawk1665]

You surely can't be referencing either of my DIASPORA (Thundeverse) or BHOTWG (Cornellverse) diaries that I did for TEW2010- because that's exactly how I book my shows. I might do the occasional singles title match at Korakuen Hall, but I'd never put one on in say Shikoku or even Chugoku for that matter.

 

Admittedly my first BHOTWG diary for TEW2008 did have that sort of big matches on every show booking, that you complained about, and for me as proud as I am of that diary, it is admittedly my weakest puroresu diary- simply because it wasn't at all realistic

 

But that was written before I had a real handle on what Puroresu actually was like, and was written from the perspective of an ROH fan who had been introduced to some Japanese wrestlers via they're then working agreements with Dragon Gate and NOAH.

 

The only wrestling I really watch these days is Puroresu , and even then I only really find the time to follow NJPW and Dragon Gate as much as I possibly can.

 

Here's a question- I always run a show in Shikoku for game purposes if I'm running a promotion that is at cult or higher- but does anyone actually ever run a show there in real life?

 

I really didn't write that with anyone in mind. I do think I read your 2008 diary, so that may have been an inspiration. But hell, it's more then I've ever done diary wise, so what can I say? The game kind of re-enforced that image too, given how often the AI would do title matches.

 

As for Shikoku, I don't think any promotions are based out of that region, but like all the other regions, it gets shows from time to time. A google search brought up a SENDAI Girls show that ran in the region, so there's one at least. It might be the least used region with Hokkaido or Okinawa near.

[Infernalmiko]

YEAH, Shikoku gets visited now and then and not just by Tigerkinney's diary. New Japan has run the Takamatsu City Gymnasium. Niihama and Kochi have also seen shows by smaller groups.

 

Okinawa is definitely is less used, even than Hokkaido. But they have a micro local puroresu promotion. DASH Chisako was sent down there for a little while. New Japan sends wrestlers on excursions to America and Mexico. Sendai Pro sends them on excursions to Okinawa.

[Rone Rivendale]

I love Puro, but usually more so for the smaller promotions like DDT and Osaka Pro which I have DDVs of. I like the mix of serious action and really well done comedy matches (anyone who has seen Kota Ibushi wrestle a blow up doll to a 4 star match knows what I mean). My favorite Puro wrestler is actually an American, Kenny Omega. Capable of putting on a great match whether it's serious or comedy. And his finishers are always incredible.

 

I happen to love Joshi even more. I have DDVs from Ice Ribbon and Sendai Girls. And I've seen matches on YouTube. The women in Joshi are more skilled than 90% of the men in America. It's insane. And they start out in their preteens sometimes. My favorite Joshi are Kana and Riho.

 

My final TEW10 game was actually a Quad 0 RW game where I made a company named Joshi Revolution. It was based in Kinki (cuz it sounds like kinky lol) and then eventually became cult running shows in Kinki and Kanto(Toyko). I went more than 6 years into the data on that one before TEW13 came out and I've put it on hiatus.

[Wayne28]

Currently running a NJPW game. Nothing better than booking a puro promotion.

[Rayelek]

Definitely nice to have, as I imagine most of the Puro fans would've not liked my upcoming BCG diary, since I can tell I would've done it wrong. Still got plenty of time to figure it out though, since the diary won't start until I buy the game, at least.

[Jaded]

http://www.puroresufan.com/njpw/

 

Covers New Japan, the biggest promotion in Japan (which now does IPPV for the entire world). Everything builds to the big show per month. In this case, it's the Tokyo Dome show on 1/04. Every person in a major match is protected so that the big matches in theory come across as bigger deals.

 

Whoa, awesome site - thanks for sharing that link!

[Luchador Canadiense]

http://www.puroresufan.com/njpw/

 

Covers New Japan, the biggest promotion in Japan (which now does IPPV for the entire world). Everything builds to the big show per month. In this case, it's the Tokyo Dome show on 1/04. Every person in a major match is protected so that the big matches in theory come across as bigger deals.

 

Given the criticisms of how "Machine Gun" Anderson and Hirooki Goto have been booked only to have it lead to a tag match at Wrestle Kingdom, are there any particular periods in the past which anyone would recommend as a high point for good booking in NJPW? Really trying to brush up on booking a puro product.

[Lukiep8]

YEAH, Shikoku gets visited now and then and not just by Tigerkinney's diary. New Japan has run the Takamatsu City Gymnasium. Niihama and Kochi have also seen shows by smaller groups.

 

Okinawa is definitely is less used, even than Hokkaido. But they have a micro local puroresu promotion. DASH Chisako was sent down there for a little while. New Japan sends wrestlers on excursions to America and Mexico. Sendai Pro sends them on excursions to Okinawa.

 

Okinawa Pro closed down.

 

Also, hello!

[bookerman]

Given the criticisms of how "Machine Gun" Anderson and Hirooki Goto have been booked only to have it lead to a tag match at Wrestle Kingdom, are there any particular periods in the past which anyone would recommend as a high point for good booking in NJPW? Really trying to brush up on booking a puro product.

 

First, read through the link I posted earlier about booking the AJPW Champion Carnival in 1998. It's dated, but it really touches on how important wins are in booking. Another big concept to focus on is "firsts" or achievements for each wrestler. Consider these goals that the wrestler has to accomplish in his career to move up the ladder. These usually involve things like pinning someone in a tag match, pinning some one in singles, defending a title against someone, etc. These are used to show "growth" in a wrestler.

 

To use a WWE example, think about Cesaro. In order to move up the ladder, he would need to gain victories over people like Cena, Ryback, Punk, Sheamus, Big Show, Orton, etc. To start his move, let's say he pins Orton in a tag match clean. Later on, they have a singles match and Orton comes out on top, but Cesaro looks good in the process. A few months later, they cross paths again, but this time Cesaro comes out on top. Now he needs to show that he's passed Orton on the ladder by defeating him again in singles. This could take another few months to take place as Cesaro has an issue with Kofi who recently pinned him in a tag match and Orton is facing Big Show for the title for example.

 

Another key thing about puro booking is that 6 mans and tags are used to setup singles matches on the big show. Using 6 mentioned about, a team of Ryback/Cena/Sheamus vs Punk/Big Show/Orton could be used to setup any number of matches depending on who gets the win. Ryback pins Show and they face off at the next PPV. Orton pins Sheamus or Ryback. Instant rematch at the next big event.

 

Main thing to keep in mind is that wins and losses matter, but also who people win and lose to and the situation involved.

 

I'm sure Miko and others will be able to provide more insight as well.

[Derek B]

I read through that column a while ago and I've added substantially to my notes based on it. It's really helped me to flesh out the histories of some workers and added more depth to rivalries that might otherwise have been fairly bland. I feel like a lot of my workers now have more long term goals than they would before as well as a lot more history to work on too. I might not have a set-up like the competition decribed in the column (yet ) but thanks to reading it I feel like I understand how things should work a lot more and it's helping to bring more ideas to the fore and to reshape some of the big plans I had in a way that should make more sense.

 

In short... it was a very informative read.

[justtxyank]

Watching All Japan in the 90s is a thing of a beauty. But, if you go watch Kobashi vs Misawa on youtube you are doing yourself an injustice. Understanding how great a match is requires you to see the matches that came before. It's such an artwork.

 

Also, the more I've watched Puro the more I've come to absolutely love Stan Hansen. So artfully violent and his controlled mayhem was perfect. The idea that exists today that Bruiser Brody was better than Hansen is absurd and comes only from the fact that Brody is a mythical nutjob who got killed. Hansen is one of the all time great workers and is severely underrated in most TEW mods, particularly his selling abilities.

[Infernalmiko]

Okinawa Pro closed down.

 

Also, hello!

 

Hello! And so it is, and over a year ago. I should have checked their webpage before posting.

 

Purolove is another good site for results. It's in German but it's pretty easy to understand what's going on.

 

My feeling is they see Goto as an Eternal Ozeki now, always toward the top but never quite world champion. So he ended up in a team with Karl Anderson and they were suddenly booked strongly just so they can challenge KES. Anderson and Goto are both higher up individually then KES. So there was no build up to the team, it feels to alot of people like "Crap, we need a new tag team for the dome. Who are we not doing anything with? Anderson and Goto, you are now a team! Give them a moon push!"

 

So there was less long term planning and more of a rush than I'd usually like to see in the booking.

[Unregistered]

Okinawa Pro closed down.

 

Also, hello!

 

Welcome back Lukie! Here's hoping you do your mod again, that way I don't have to attempt to do one myself again

[Unregistered]

Given the criticisms of how "Machine Gun" Anderson and Hirooki Goto have been booked only to have it lead to a tag match at Wrestle Kingdom, are there any particular periods in the past which anyone would recommend as a high point for good booking in NJPW? Really trying to brush up on booking a puro product.

 

Hardly bad booking by any standards actually. Goto has always been a good Tournament wrestler, and Anderson has had a break out year. They got this chance by winning a tag tournament which just happened. Sure, it's it a bit weird they are suddenly partners? Sure. But the tag title match is hardly the most important match of the show, and their is still good reasoning going into it. Goto has had problems winning the title, as has Anderson, but Anderson is also a great tag team wrestler... now they are teaming together to go after a tag title.

 

I go into WrestleKingdom this year caring more for the show then I've cared for any Wrestlemania since i was a kid. Its fun, and it's because of good booking that may be better understood by both watching it for years and for understanding the Japanese style of book better.

 

Okada vs Tanahashi is a perfectly booked storyline by any standards, if your willing to look past the fact that it's been booked almost too perfectly.

[Luchador Canadiense]

Hardly bad booking by any standards actually. Goto has always been a good Tournament wrestler, and Anderson has had a break out year. They got this chance by winning a tag tournament which just happened. Sure, it's it a bit weird they are suddenly partners? Sure. But the tag title match is hardly the most important match of the show, and their is still good reasoning going into it. Goto has had problems winning the title, as has Anderson, but Anderson is also a great tag team wrestler... now they are teaming together to go after a tag title.

 

I hear what you are saying, and perhaps for Goto, this is pretty fair treatment.

 

But outside of perhaps Okada, Machine Gun has had a monster year. Things could have went really bad for him when Bad Intentions broke up, but instead he makes it to the semi-final of the New Japan Cup beating Tenzan and Nakamura along the way, upset Tanahashi -- the IWGP Heavyweight Champion no less -- to advance to the G1 Climax finals where he lost to Okada (see above).

 

This is the point where I think NJPW dropped the ball on Machine Gun, because then he lost the opportunity for the title shot at Wrestle Kingdom to Okada, followed by the Intercontinental match to Nakamura, then the NEVER Openweight championship match to Tanaka.

 

And then it was back to the tag team ranks for Machine Gun. Sure, I'm looking forward to the match with the Killer Elite Squad, but I think with some better booking, Machine Gun could have been a legit Heavyweight contender. He had an upset win over Tanahashi, an excuse for a loss to Okada for the G1 (having to wrestle back-to-back matches), and heck, even the almost-but-not-quite-good-enough loss to Okada for the WK title shot lends itself to a good feud with Okada. Either way, he had the makings of a potential feud with Tanahashi or Okada for the title (because Tanahashi vs. Okada has already stretched on for a year... I've got to imagine they are going to shake things up soon for the top feud.)

 

So why not book him strong in singles competitions headed into post-Wrestle Kingdom 2013? Why not have him WRESTLE Goto at Wrestle Kingdom and win, instead of relegate him back to the tag ranks?

[Infernalmiko]

And then it was back to the tag team ranks for Machine Gun. Sure, I'm looking forward to the match with the Killer Elite Squad, but I think with some better booking, Machine Gun could have been a legit Heavyweight contender. He had an upset win over Tanahashi, an excuse for a loss to Okada for the G1 (having to wrestle back-to-back matches), and heck, even the almost-but-not-quite-good-enough loss to Okada for the WK title shot lends itself to a good feud with Okada. Either way, he had the makings of a potential feud with Tanahashi or Okada for the title (because Tanahashi vs. Okada has already stretched on for a year... I've got to imagine they are going to shake things up soon for the top feud.

 

My suspicion is that Anderson will turn on Goto at some point in the match with KES. I don't see KES beating them without something weird happening, and they've already beaten KES once. But Anderson turning on Goto sets up a high profile singles feud with the winner moving on to a title match with the World Champ. I just can't see it leading to a Anderson title run yet. He just so doesn't have that It Factor (to me). Giant Bernard I could easily have seen as the World Champ. But Anderson...I'm not sure. Maybe Intercontinental Title, but that depends on how they use the belt. Nakamura as the champ makes it a main event title, which it really wasn't before and I'm not sure it should be one.

[Ockbald]

Here is the thing I don't get:

In TEW, several of Puro promotions are 100% matches.

However watching any good puro, particulary big cards, there is often a angle throw here and there. Be it a interview, a post match speech, a prize delivery scene, hell, SMASH (now NWC) had these freaking awesome recaps, complete with out of the ring scenes of the workers interacting leading to a particulary match.

 

Wouldn't this put these federations to at least 90%?

I understand the '13 edition of TEW fixed the issue of Japanese audiences crapping all over any short of angle in a puro fed (which was blatantly not true for real life) however I feel the issue still persists since you will never see the AI booking small angles for such promotions.

 

It's this small twist that made me fall in love with puro. Their angles are short, sweet, to the point, and built a match up greatly. A match up that more often than not, was incredible. (See TAJIRI vs. Finlay in SMASH for a good example of small angles leading to this huge, huge match. Or even Okada vs. Tanahashi on NJPW of all places.)

 

I am also dissapointed there isn't a HUSTLE in TEW but I actually enjoyed HUSTLE. Admiting this in the IWC is like commiting suicide or something.

[Infernalmiko]

Here is the thing I don't get:

In TEW, several of Puro promotions are 100% matches.

However watching any good puro, particulary big cards, there is often a angle throw here and there. Be it a interview, a post match speech, a prize delivery scene, hell, SMASH (now NWC) had these freaking awesome recaps, complete with out of the ring scenes of the workers interacting leading to a particulary match.

 

SMASH (now WNC) was pretty unabashedly drawing on WWE style sports entertainment for alot of what they did. It worked really well for them. You have 10% leeway on either side of the 100%, so you can still have a very small amount of time put into angles even with a 100% fed. They won't expect storylines but you can still use storylines. In general the angles will be pretty short, you are right. Ishii attacks Tigermask after the match and rips his mask, setting off their feud. The not infrequent appearance after a title match by the new challenger to insult or challenge the champion. Etc.

 

I am also dissapointed there isn't a HUSTLE in TEW but I actually enjoyed HUSTLE. Admiting this in the IWC is like commiting suicide or something.

 

As a flash in the pan, HUSTLE was amusing, and for the wrestlers it was decent money for little work. The brief angle with New Japan (whose wrestlers warned they would not allow the Hustle Dance in the ring) was funny.

[Luchador Canadiense]

It also depends on "how" you are watching the show. Speaking only of New Japan, which I tend to watch on Youtube, if you are finding a lot of post-match interviews, then in all likelihood you are likely not getting the original PPV feed. Instead, you are likely getting whatever appeared on television later (hence the "highlight" shows for Japanese touring promotions), because that is where they splice a lot of the interview segments in. Watch the straight PPV feed, and you'll get none of that.