Cornellverse 2005 Mod - RELEASE

[Blackman]

In NOTB, I noticed that the women's champion is still Appleseed, while the official data dictates the title was vacated as the time. Just a minor error, though I get why you've done it, as the AI will likely not re-engage the title or maybe book it bad.

 

NOTB seems fun to play though, where you can immediately unite the two minor titles with Edd Stone. And it was just easy at that time, unless this game has more aggressive AI for SWF.

[Nightshadeex]

Pretty much my thought - I don't think there's any way to force the AI to switch owners. You could use narratives to force some changes on the promotion... but that would likely have unpredictable results for what the AI-run promotion would do afterward.

 

Personally I like that if DAVE does go down, it leaves a spot that won't automatically be filled by USPW. Could be CZCW, NYCW, or maybe even AAA. Or maybe USPW does manage it. I don't think the point of a historical mod should necessarily be to have everything happen exactly as it really did.

 

Tom E Hawk - aka Nicky Champion - is another guy with SQ that is kinda low. Young talent can see their SQ improve a bit naturally, but its usually only about one level in my experience.

 

 

 

I looked into the star quality. All of those guys are correct as of the 2005 data, except for Shooter, who was off 2 points, somehow.

 

I expect Sam Strong to get fired from TCW pretty soon in the game I'm playing. He's an awful booker.

 

The NOTBPW women's title should actually be retired at this point, but for their women's division to mean anything, I think the title should be active.

[Idolized]

Would you like me to host this on EWWAREHOUSE.INFO?

[paulskln]

Yeah I don't see USPW ever making it big because lets face it before Sam Strong came along they didn't even have a TV deal and after he came along they got Bruce, Liberty, Caulfield, re imagined Tom E Hawk, etc. So I think that as far as 2005 is concerned USPW is an after thought. I will look into the SQ issue thanks BP.

 

Idolized I would love for you host it on EW warehouse and I will link to it in the opening page when it is hosted. Thank you.

 

Would you like me to host this on EWWAREHOUSE.INFO?

 

You might have missed this from the previous page

[Teh_Showtime]

I dont think Steve Frehley should start with 78 psychology given that his 2013 self only has 70

 

I think Angry Gillmore's mic skills should be looked at too, they seem a bit overstated (and 100 charisma)

[Blake Trask]

I looked into the star quality. All of those guys are correct as of the 2005 data, except for Shooter, who was off 2 points, somehow.

 

I expect Sam Strong to get fired from TCW pretty soon in the game I'm playing. He's an awful booker.

 

The NOTBPW women's title should actually be retired at this point, but for their women's division to mean anything, I think the title should be active.

 

 

While it's correct in terms of relating to the 2005 data, I think in the case of someone like the pre-champion, there might be a case for upping it, since he always had that 'hidden potential' as it were. But then I guess it's not a straight conversion. I don't know, just something to ponder.

[Teh_Showtime]

Just started another watched and George DeColt died in May 2006 but Alex didnt take over later on Alysian Scottsfield took over. Alex has the business skills so idk what happened there.

 

Also with TCW continually falling to Cult have you considered dropping the realism because I dont think it was until TEW2007 before they officially turned the corner and started being more traditional/workrate based.

[Nightshadeex]

Just started another watched and George DeColt died in May 2006 but Alex didnt take over later on Alysian Scottsfield took over. Alex has the business skills so idk what happened there.

 

Also with TCW continually falling to Cult have you considered dropping the realism because I dont think it was until TEW2007 before they officially turned the corner and started being more traditional/workrate based.

 

The top part of this made me think about double checking relationships and I've noticed many are missing. I'll fix this and reupload.

 

The drop to cult happens because Sam Strong tends to love Peter Valentine, who is awful.

 

 

 

As for the stat discrepancies, do we want things to play like the 2005 data, or updated? My goal was a pretty faithful conversion plus the new features. I'm open to suggestions, though.

[Teh_Showtime]

Something weird that happened was Eisaku Hoshino took over PGHW and let a ton of PGHW talent go (either release or not signing back). Excluding Nobuatsu Tatsuko who he hates he released Tetsunori Yasuda (who should be his protege), William Hayes, and Kozue Kawashima upon others.

 

Not really a data error but was interesting to say the least, BHOTWG is stacked now despite losing Kikkawa to INSPIRE

 

Speaking of should there be hiring rules to prevent so many Junior or CW style wrestlers being signed? I didn't really play as them back in 2007/8 so I have no clue.

[Idolized]

You might have missed this from the previous page

 

Sorry, must have forgotten I asked before! Will get this one there ASAP.

[Nightshadeex]

Relationships have been fixed up to a degree in the Headdropproductions.com link.

[Bigpapa42]

The top part of this made me think about double checking relationships and I've noticed many are missing. I'll fix this and reupload.

 

The drop to cult happens because Sam Strong tends to love Peter Valentine, who is awful.

 

As for the stat discrepancies, do we want things to play like the 2005 data, or updated? My goal was a pretty faithful conversion plus the new features. I'm open to suggestions, though.

 

TCW kept doing the bounce even after Strong was removed. Oxford was made booker at some point and they have done the same thing. Not sure what Oxford's booking skills are. As of the start of 2009, Henry Lee is TCW WHT. He has the overness (B) to do it but not really the skill.

 

My personal preference is have the data something of a hybrid. Based on the 2005 data but updated a bit. Mainly as the improved SQ means guys like Deely and Champion will be more likely to develop into stars, which appeals to me personally. That's a whole can of worms, though... because if the SQ is going to be based on what they have in subsequent versions, the same could and perhaps should be true of guys who dropped and/or who became negative personalities. So I'm perfectly okay with things being left at the exact 2005 data level and I can adjust as I see fit.

[Teh_Showtime]

I think overall the SQ might be better if some of the top end was lowered and the bottom end raised. I just noticed both of the New Wave have horrible SQ (something like E and D-) and there are a ton of people (eventual superstars) who have A* star quality too but I don't think it should be so common to see A* star quality, not to mention that most of those guys have a ton of talent.

[Stennick]

My personal preference is have the data something of a hybrid. Based on the 2005 data but updated a bit. Mainly as the improved SQ means guys like Deely and Champion will be more likely to develop into stars, which appeals to me personally. That's a whole can of worms, though... because if the SQ is going to be based on what they have in subsequent versions, the same could and perhaps should be true of guys who dropped and/or who became negative personalities. So I'm perfectly okay with things being left at the exact 2005 data level and I can adjust as I see fit.

 

I think you hit the nail on the head there. Its nearly impossible to add to some guys SQ because in the future they become big stars and at the same time not take away or affect other guys who develop problems in later versions.

 

I kind of look at it like this. If you're playing in 1995 Rocky Mavia is going to have average star potential at best. However if you're playing in 1995 and its 2000 then you well know he's the GOAT. So its tough to figure out if we're supposed to be playing this through the eyes of a booker in this time period or if we're supposed to somehow know these guys will turn into superstars. Its a tough gig either way and I'm not sure we'll ever balance out who should get a boost, who should get a reduction, who should have a bad attitude personality wise now and who shouldn't. There is some tweaking to be done but I think it goes to show us even with C Verse mods stats can be subject at times

[Derek B]

I think you hit the nail on the head there. Its nearly impossible to add to some guys SQ because in the future they become big stars and at the same time not take away or affect other guys who develop problems in later versions.

 

I kind of look at it like this. If you're playing in 1995 Rocky Mavia is going to have average star potential at best. However if you're playing in 1995 and its 2000 then you well know he's the GOAT. So its tough to figure out if we're supposed to be playing this through the eyes of a booker in this time period or if we're supposed to somehow know these guys will turn into superstars. Its a tough gig either way and I'm not sure we'll ever balance out who should get a boost, who should get a reduction, who should have a bad attitude personality wise now and who shouldn't. There is some tweaking to be done but I think it goes to show us even with C Verse mods stats can be subject at times

 

There are always judgement calls, but Rocky Maivia always looked like a star. He had the heritage, he had the look and the athleticism... even at his debut he clearly had that star quality about him. He just wasn't a star yet. Don't get star quality and popularity/overness confused, that's a mod making nightmate right there.

 

But as for the matter at hand... it's important to know in advance how you are doing things. With 2005 you can either make it "the Cornellverse as it shipped with TEW05" or "the TEW13 database rewound to 2005". Either way can work, as long as you are consistent with it throughout the mod. Personally, I'd prefer the second option (which probably requires more work, admittedly) as it would reflect better with the current data and is scaled better to the way that TEW works now instead of the way TEW worker back then, but either one will be fun to play so it's modders choice.

 

If you go the second route then you can always set stats a bit lower and Fog Of War is going to do the rest. Workers will grow into most stats over time so you can have them be weaker than their current version (8 years is a huge amount of time to develop, particular with most workers gaining a grade/6 points a year in gameplay) and not compromise the integrity of the mod. That's the route I've taken with CV97 and my sims there have worked out pretty well, particularly with the TEW13 data having most of the top workers scaled back a bit and now there being so many fewer 90+ rated matches, which makes them so much more valuable.

[juggaloninjalee]

There are always judgement calls, but Rocky Maivia always looked like a star. He had the heritage, he had the look and the athleticism... even at his debut he clearly had that star quality about him. He just wasn't a star yet. Don't get star quality and popularity/overness confused, that's a mod making nightmate right there.

 

But as for the matter at hand... it's important to know in advance how you are doing things. With 2005 you can either make it "the Cornellverse as it shipped with TEW05" or "the TEW13 database rewound to 2005". Either way can work, as long as you are consistent with it throughout the mod. Personally, I'd prefer the second option (which probably requires more work, admittedly) as it would reflect better with the current data and is scaled better to the way that TEW works now instead of the way TEW worker back then, but either one will be fun to play so it's modders choice.

 

Upon his debut he did not have star quality. His physique was soft (squishy), and he showed no signs of anything fantastic at that point really. Heritage doesn't = star quality. For mod purposes yes he had it but if you rewind to back then nobody thought he was going to be a star. It wasn't until his Nation of Domination days that people picked up on it.

[Derek B]

Upon his debut he did not have star quality. His physique was soft (squishy), and he showed no signs of anything fantastic at that point really. Heritage doesn't = star quality. For mod purposes yes he had it but if you rewind to back then nobody thought he was going to be a star. It wasn't until his Nation of Domination days that people picked up on it.

 

We're really going to have to disagree on that front then, even when he debuted I called him as a future world champion. And if being soft means he didn't have star quality then I hope you're in the same camp as I am in saying that Mick Foley became a huge star despite his lack of star quality... because he had huge charisma instead. The Rock lacked in charisma to start with, just because he was a rookie, but he developed it and became one of the best. But in terms of star quality I'm fairly surprised that anyone could take a look at young Rocky and say he didn't look like a potential star. Cos despite the haircut, he always looked like one to me.

 

Mind you, I've said that about quite a few people in the past. Randy Orton I had pegged as a star the first time I saw him, likewise for Batista (but not Cena for some reason)... Cody Rhodes is still someone I see as a champion one day... Elijah Burke/D'Angelo Dinero is someone who oozes star quality AND charisma... when I first saw Skip Sheffield on NXT I said it, and Ryback is now huge (but not as strong for charisma)...

 

And I'm rambling a bit. My only point is, that in terms of real world mods it's hard to call but for most folks it's always there to a degree and needs nurtured. Daniel Bryan is an excellent example of a modren guy with fairly low star quality who has gotten over on talent and developed his charisma a LOT in recent years. But star quality doesn't work like that, it's pretty fixed barring a dramatic change. So if I were modding (I'm not here, obviously ) guys like Nicky Champion in 2005 I'd have him with maybe 80% of his TEW13 value and let him grow into the rest of it as he develops. Fog Of War would do the rest of the work as Tom begins to look increasingly like a future star and eventually becomes Nicky Champion. Maybe.

[juggaloninjalee]

We're really going to have to disagree on that front then, even when he debuted I called him as a future world champion. And if being soft means he didn't have star quality then I hope you're in the same camp as I am in saying that Mick Foley became a huge star despite his lack of star quality... because he had huge charisma instead. The Rock lacked in charisma to start with, just because he was a rookie, but he developed it and became one of the best. But in terms of star quality I'm fairly surprised that anyone could take a look at young Rocky and say he didn't look like a potential star. Cos despite the haircut, he always looked like one to me.

 

Mind you, I've said that about quite a few people in the past. Randy Orton I had pegged as a star the first time I saw him, likewise for Batista (but not Cena for some reason)... Cody Rhodes is still someone I see as a champion one day... Elijah Burke/D'Angelo Dinero is someone who oozes star quality AND charisma... when I first saw Skip Sheffield on NXT I said it, and Ryback is now huge (but not as strong for charisma)...

 

And I'm rambling a bit. My only point is, that in terms of real world mods it's hard to call but for most folks it's always there to a degree and needs nurtured. Daniel Bryan is an excellent example of a modren guy with fairly low star quality who has gotten over on talent and developed his charisma a LOT in recent years. But star quality doesn't work like that, it's pretty fixed barring a dramatic change. So if I were modding (I'm not here, obviously ) guys like Nicky Champion in 2005 I'd have him with maybe 80% of his TEW13 value and let him grow into the rest of it as he develops. Fog Of War would do the rest of the work as Tom begins to look increasingly like a future star and eventually becomes Nicky Champion. Maybe.

 

Look at both of those pictures and Rock looks like any other indy wrestler who is in halfway decent shape. I'd argue some guys have it more than that goofy looking guy.

 

I am a Rock fan but I never saw it until he got on the microphone.

 

Randy Orton, Batista, and John Cena I thought would be stars one day. I don't and never saw it in Ryback. I don't see it in Goldberg either though but I do see menace, and a perfect character/push for them.

 

Brock Lesnar is a guy who I thought could have been bigger than anyone in the history of pro wrestling but he sort of ruined that when he quit. I still think he could be but he would need to be full time and have a great manager (Heyman qualifies).

 

I agree Foley got over because of luck, smarts, and because he was charismatic.

 

These 2 links show that Rock didn't look like a star... in my eyes at least.

 

http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&hl=en&sa=N&tbo=d&biw=1071&bih=615&tbm=isch&tbnid=iYQ0NMUKvPvFQM:&imgrefurl=http://www.ign.com/articles/2011/03/24/the-rocks-most-electrifying-moments&docid=vsE47ot_R_BLoM&imgurl=http://tvmedia.ign.com/tv/image/article/115/1157320/1212354417_2_1300925145.jpg&w=330&h=264&ei=hNsjUZX9DIX7ygHg34CoBA&zoom=1&ved=1t:3588,r:3,s:0,i:94&iact=rc&dur=1177&sig=102627326561864521969&page=1&tbnh=175&tbnw=211&start=0&ndsp=19&tx=139&ty=70

 

http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&hl=en&sa=N&tbo=d&biw=1071&bih=615&tbm=isch&tbnid=DlUPzfiC28Ij2M:&imgrefurl=http://superstargfx.deviantart.com/art/Rocky-Maivia-297519298&docid=PES5eIz5XU5ViM&imgurl=http://www.deviantart.com/download/297519298/rocky_maivia_by_mrigfx-d4x4vcy.jpg&w=218&h=338&ei=hNsjUZX9DIX7ygHg34CoBA&zoom=1&ved=1t:3588,r:70,s:0,i:305&iact=rc&dur=267&sig=102627326561864521969&page=4&tbnh=174&tbnw=117&start=55&ndsp=17&tx=81&ty=72

[Derek B]

We seem mostly in agreement, which is a good thing because it means we have a similar understanding. But really, I look at Rocky in those shots and go "With the right character he could be huge". The problem with a picture like that is that it isn't quite enough to judge by... I'd rather have a ten second video, by which point I could tell how he moves, what he looks like in action, how he really looks... then I'd know. And from the word go, he was someone I saw as a future star. I wasn't a fan of his til he turned heel though, but that's kinda the point... the right gimmick turns potential into popularity, and Rocky had the potential but it wasn't unlocked til he matured a bit.

 

In Cornellverse terms... a 19 year old Nicky Champion has less star quality than a 28 year old Nicky Champion, it'll take him years to grow into it fully but he's going to get there eventually. As a mod maker you just need to decide if you want him to have the potential to get to where he is NOW or whether you want to stay loyal to the original data. Given the way the Cornellverse changes with each generation, I'd stick closer to the current canon than the original and older data (which has a lot of rewrites because it was flawed in many ways) as I think it would give a better game experience. But that's my preference.

 

And I'm trying not to hog the thread with debates, as interesting as they are. The Rock doesn't belong in the 2005 Cornellverse, which I've still not had enough time to play as I've been doing other things recently.

[juggaloninjalee]

I agree with trying to adhere to the current data than the 2005 because it will make the game play better I think.

[Spud1305]

Hi guys, sorry to be a pain. Could anyone possibly upload this at an alternative location, trying to download and the links on the front page direct me to download Google Chrome. Don't really want to download Chrome.

 

Thanks

[Blake Trask]

Indeed. Compare Clark Alexander in 2005 (or rather, Ice Man C.A.) to Clark Alexander in 2013 or even 2010. A lot of people got toned down considerably between the games. Most of the TCW/SWF rosters are very, VERY good. It's why playing WreSpi 2 as a Bumfhole was easy-mode.

[Nightshadeex]

Hi guys, sorry to be a pain. Could anyone possibly upload this at an alternative location, trying to download and the links on the front page direct me to download Google Chrome. Don't really want to download Chrome.

 

Thanks

 

That shouldn't be a problem downloading from the first link, as far as I can tell.

[Nightshadeex]

We seem mostly in agreement, which is a good thing because it means we have a similar understanding. But really, I look at Rocky in those shots and go "With the right character he could be huge". The problem with a picture like that is that it isn't quite enough to judge by... I'd rather have a ten second video, by which point I could tell how he moves, what he looks like in action, how he really looks... then I'd know. And from the word go, he was someone I saw as a future star. I wasn't a fan of his til he turned heel though, but that's kinda the point... the right gimmick turns potential into popularity, and Rocky had the potential but it wasn't unlocked til he matured a bit.

 

In Cornellverse terms... a 19 year old Nicky Champion has less star quality than a 28 year old Nicky Champion, it'll take him years to grow into it fully but he's going to get there eventually. As a mod maker you just need to decide if you want him to have the potential to get to where he is NOW or whether you want to stay loyal to the original data. Given the way the Cornellverse changes with each generation, I'd stick closer to the current canon than the original and older data (which has a lot of rewrites because it was flawed in many ways) as I think it would give a better game experience. But that's my preference.

 

And I'm trying not to hog the thread with debates, as interesting as they are. The Rock doesn't belong in the 2005 Cornellverse, which I've still not had enough time to play as I've been doing other things recently.

 

 

If I was able to look at the current data in a spreadsheet and compare it to the 2005 mod in a spreadsheet, I would be much more inclined to update the stats in the database. As it is now (unless there is a way I missed) comparing and contrasting is more time consuming than I have available at the moment.

[Spud1305]

That shouldn't be a problem downloading from the first link, as far as I can tell.

 

Both the links to Mega ask for Chrome to be downloaded, the very first link has the rar file for the data, I can download that one fine. I'm guessing the two at Mega have the graphics included though?