Here is my question

[GatorBait19]

So growing up and now that I have a kid I have come to the rationalization that parents are the ones who instil values, morals, and what ever else makes us moral people.

 

Now Obama says that we need to install programs to help black males in this country be better men...... I'm sorry im lost on this.

 

As a father and a man raised by another man I truly believe it is our parents responsibility to make us better people. Now I know whites, blacks, spanish, Asians, and Arabs who are respectable citizens in this world.

 

Then today I watch trayvon's dad talk about things that need to happen to help black kids...... Again I'm lost

 

So here is my question, is it the responsibility of the American government to raise the kids or is it the parents?

 

Also, why has the character of travyon's parents not been brought to question? I came from a divorce family and yet I was never suspended three times from school in one year.

 

Also when I was given out of school suspension I did not recieve a vacation to go with my dad I was in Out of school suspension program, also when I was suspended my phone was taken away, I was grounded, and I was not allowed to leave the house under any condition.

 

So again, when do we start blaming parents for the quality of children now and is it the governments responsibility to raise these kids.

 

We need to come together as a society..... Or fail as a society together

[mitsukaikira]

<p>How is that even a question? Does the government procreate your child? Does the government carry the fetus for 9 months? Does the government give birth to said child? Does the government raise the child at home?</p><p> </p><p>

The answer is no. Of course it's not their responsibility. If a person cannot raise their own kids they should not have had them. There is little one can do about those that already gave birth to kids that they cannot raise.</p>

[GatorBait19]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="mitsukaikira" data-cite="mitsukaikira" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="36453" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>How is that even a question? Does the government procreate your child? Does the government carry the fetus for 9 months? Does the government give birth to said child? Does the government raise the child at home?<p> </p><p> The answer is no. Of course it's not their responsibility. If a person cannot raise their own kids they should not have had them. There is little one can do about those that already gave birth to kids that they cannot raise.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> So then you are against Obama's call for programs to help black youth?</p>

[Astil]

It's not the government's or parent's responsibility: it's the kid's.

[shawn michaels]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Astil" data-cite="Astil" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="36453" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>It's not the government's or parent's responsibility: it's the kid's.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Wait...what??? <img alt=":D" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /> Tell me that's a joke.</p>

[Astil]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="shawn michaels 82" data-cite="shawn michaels 82" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="36453" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Wait...what??? <img alt=":D" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /> Tell me that's a joke.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Look...In my opinion, at a certain age <strong>you</strong> are the one making the decision. And while most early childhood psychology points to the formative years being influential in how a person <strong>thinks</strong> at the end of the day, by the time you reach a certain age your actions are your own. Socioeconomic factors bear weight, parental structure bears weight but ultimately <strong>you</strong> decide what to do.</p>

[shawn michaels]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Astil" data-cite="Astil" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="36453" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Look...In my opinion, at a certain age <strong>you</strong> are the one making the decision. And while most early childhood psychology points to the formative years being influential in how a person <strong>thinks</strong> at the end of the day, by the time you reach a certain age your actions are your own. Socioeconomic factors bear weight, parental structure bears weight but ultimately <strong>you</strong> decide what to do.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> At a certain age. Exactly. Until that age parents have to step up and do their jobs. Which doesn't always happen and will influence the future events. </p><p> </p><p> Now...blaming the government is ridiculous. When people have no one to blame, heck, they just blame the government. Ridiculous.</p>

[i effin rule]

In a perfect world, yes the parents should instil the values, etc.

 

This is not a perfect world.

 

Black, white, brown, navy, regardless of any of that there are people out there who aren't good parents. There are parents out there who are still children themselves. You can expect a child to raise a child sufficiently. Regardless of what some may think, just because you love your child more than anything, it doesn't make you a good parent.

 

While that might seem like it isn't your problem or anyone else's problem, it is. Those kids grow up and do the same and make the same bad decisions. The point is to try and curb those bad decisions with education and programs that help show these kids how to be better citizens so that they can grow to pass that on and we, as a society, become better.

 

Now for my super liberal soap box moment. This country has to stop with the attitude of "we demand you have that child, but we don't want to be responsible for it."

[mitsukaikira]

So then you are against Obama's call for programs to help black youth?

 

That's quite the stretch and assumption you're making. How could a person with a heart be against anything that helps kids? Key word being "help". You asked if the government should raise your kids, I said no. You equate that with me not wanting kids helped.

 

I don't know anything about these supposed programs for black youths. I can neither support nor condemn them without knowing.

[djthefunkchris]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="i effin rule" data-cite="i effin rule" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="36453" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>In a perfect world, yes the parents should instil the values, etc.<p> </p><p> This is not a perfect world.</p><p> </p><p> Black, white, brown, navy, regardless of any of that there are people out there who aren't good parents. There are parents out there who are still children themselves. You can expect a child to raise a child sufficiently. Regardless of what some may think, just because you love your child more than anything, it doesn't make you a good parent.</p><p> </p><p> While that might seem like it isn't your problem or anyone else's problem, it is. Those kids grow up and do the same and make the same bad decisions. The point is to try and curb those bad decisions with education and programs that help show these kids how to be better citizens so that they can grow to pass that on and we, as a society, become better.</p><p> </p><p> Now for my super liberal soap box moment. This country has to stop with the attitude of "we demand you have that child, but we don't want to be responsible for it."</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> /nod.</p><p> </p><p> I have some stuff to add.</p><p> </p><p> For a long time I've said children are a product of their environment. While this is certainly not always a fact, it most certainly influences every child, no matter their color, religion, etc. That part doesn't matter. What do I mean by "children are a product of their environment"? Simple really.... IF you raise a child, and your a dope dealer, on crack, or a welfare child yourself... chances are your child will have that as a realistic choice to make for themselves. </p><p> </p><p> IF you go to school with a bunch of thugs, it's going to be hard not to be a thug yourself. IF you grow up with people that like drugs, it's going to be hard for you to decide not to do them. IF you grow up with people that steal, car jack, break into homes/cars/whatever, same thing... it's peer pressure, parental guidance, school systems, and neighborhood all rolled up into one that makes your environment. If the teacher just gives everyone a C for showing up, then that's all you will ever think you have to do on a job... "Hey, I showed up didn't I?" Well, you have to work as well, no matter if you were taught that or not.</p><p> </p><p> It goes even deeper. I've always said if minimum wage paid better then a government check, you would find quite a few people going out there and getting jobs. I get quite a bit of slack from this, especially from people that own their own businesses. I have yet to hear anyone make a good argument that would make me think differently. Example: So there you are, you have a child and you need to take care of this child. You can go out and work a minimum wage job and earn "X", or you can collect welfare and earn almost twice as much. It's really not hard to see why someone would make a decision to NOT get a job when a job pays half as much as what the government says is enough to live on. Let that sink in a little bit... The government only gives what they think is the minimum to live off of, and a full time job at minimum wage only pays about half that much (when you add it all up). What I get is "They are just lazy." Let it be reversed, like it was when welfare first started (Jimmy Carter, 1970's I believe), where minimum wage paid twice as much. Then lets see who is "just lazy", and who is thinking of their family to support.</p><p> </p><p> I would support the government if I thought they had any idea of how to change one's environment, but it's obvious to me they don't. So while I would support any help at all, I can't say I feel there will be any actual progress. Opening up a youth center isn't going to do anything, unless the person running it is a neighborhood genius, hero, all that and a bag of chips.... </p><p> </p><p> What needs to be fixed is families. I'm talking about the families that are barely making ends meet, families that break up because of money issue's, families that have a father out selling drugs instead of working a job... etc.</p><p> </p><p> Mindsets have to be changed as well. Where I grew up, I had quite a few people laugh at how hard I worked to make in a week, what they could make in an hour doing illegal stuff. These weren't my friends mind you, my "real" friends, no matter what they were into, supported me. I knew who was, and who wasn't my real friends, but I was lucky. I know many that grew up with me that thought their real friends were the ones that took them out to "party", let them crash at their place as long as they wanted, etc. I'm not saying the feeling wasn't mutual, but that friend wasn't their to get them out of jail... but they were right there to get them into things to send them right back to jail. </p><p> </p><p> I know some will agree with only parts of what I'm saying, and only a few will put together why it has something to do with the OP's question. I'm used to that with this, so it's not going to hurt my feelings or anything. Some will totally get where I'm coming from about growing up with people, some will probably feel a bit irritated at what I said because they were/are in the same exact predicament of what I was talking about and think that everything is great, but just wait.</p><p> </p><p> oops... Thought my long winded days were over.<img alt=":rolleyes:" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/rolleyes.png.4b097f4fbbe99ce5bcd5efbc1b773ed6.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[moon_lit_tears]

<p>Here is my opinion on this subject.</p><p> </p><p>

As a parent it is YOUR responsibility to teach your child right from wrong, good from bad, and give them morals to grow with, but at a certain age YOU as a child have to grow up and take what you were taught and be that person. What your parents teach you does in a way have an effect on who you are, but in the end as a person you are responsible for the person you become. </p><p> </p><p>

it's how a preachers child can become a killer, or a killers child can become a person of high values and live a life of good. </p><p> </p><p>

Obama is right. People need to take more action in their childs life. But my opinion goes WAY beyond this.</p><p> </p><p>

In the movie Lean on Me Joe tells the women in the school meeting...get off your asses get a job and give your children a sense of pride. That line rubbed the people in that room, and many people watching the wrong way, but I agree. I'm not singling out one class, race, or gender as there are women of many races on welfare, or on government programs to help raise their children, but there comes a point when you have to take responsibility. </p><p> </p><p>

Children learn from their parents, yes in a way it shape who they are, all you can do in the end is give them a path. Try to make it as right as you can and hope they stay on the right path....</p>

[bigtplaystew]

<p>PEOPLE need to take more action in their kids lives. The GOVERNMENT does not. This is the PEOPLE'S choice to be good parents.</p><p> </p><p>

BTW... just throwing this out there... can anyone imagine if George W Bush was like "Hey I just want to start getting government programs together to help out white people". Especially after Obama's "If I had a son he's look like Trayvon" nonsense maybe he should keep race out of it and discuss programs to help "less fortunate" youth like every other president had to. </p><p> </p><p>

He always makes it racial... just uncomfortable...</p>

[Editor6]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="GatorBait19" data-cite="GatorBait19" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="36453" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>So here is my question, is it the responsibility of the American government to raise the kids or is it the parents?</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> It's everybody's.</p><p> </p><p> And what I mean by that is that raising a child today seems harder than it's ever been, just with the way that the world is now. Besides socioeconomic factors such as education, jobs and standard of living, children today also have to deal with pressure from peers, the immediate environment, media and culture and society at large. Government's role is to provide the external structure and institutions -- schools, services and such. As a parent, all you can do is keep your kids as safe as you can, teach them right and wrong and how to think for themselves, so (hopefully) they'll be able to make good decisions on their own when they confront that crazy world out there. Neither entity can do it alone, especially in this day and age. The system doesn't work if everyone's not involved.</p><p> </p><p> As far as "helping black boys feel good about themselves", hundreds of years of systemic and institutionalized racism in this country have created a climate where young black men are assumed to be scary, untrustworthy and violent, and when you've gone through life being told that you're "less than" and been beaten around the head with those images and connotations, it can be both depressing and infuriating whether they apply to you or not. Some of us lash out. Some don't. But we all carry a little bit of that baggage.</p>