What are the best/worst things about WMMA4?

[primordial]

I spent a lot of time with WMMA3 and the MW mod playing the UFC and have now finished my first year in WMMA4.

 

I'll start with my conclusion: WMMA4 is a really good game which could turn into a great one with some small adjustments. Some improvements from the previous versions are absolutely great while certain changes/new things are simply annoying. Overall I couldn't imagine at all going back to WMMA3 - great work, Adam!

 

While playing I only made a list of things that bothered me, so I won't go into detail about the (many) positive sides of the game.

 

One of the most discussed things so far has been the whole Recuperation / Suspension / Recovery aspect, which gives me a hard time as well. I accustomed myself to look at every fighters' recuperation time after an event has taken place and manually set the values of those to >90 who are longer out than 6 weeks. Yes, that's as boring as it sounds, but after a year in the game I start to earn the rewards by being able to keep most fighters on 3-4 fights a year. Still, there should be changes in gameplay or at least options which eliminate this necessity. One of the strong sides of WMMA3 and TEW has always been that it allowed the player to play the game however the hell he wanted to. WMMA4 does it only to a certain degree.

 

Booking:

- The most important thing for me: Please bring back the min./max. popularity search filter from WMMA3. Booking fights now actually takes more time than in the previous game. Playing as the UFC, the likely usage filter is pretty much useless as it puts >80% of my roster in the prelims section - from mid national to low regional. And I really like to put fighters against each other who have a similar popularity.

- It would be great if the text when two fighters have fought before was marked in red. There's so much information on this screen you easily miss that fact.

- Last Fought filter: The current month numbers seem odd to me, especially 1 month (a very lucky fighter with the shortest available recuperation period) and 18/24 (the list of fighters should be short enough with 12 months). Something like 3, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12 months would make more sense (at least the way I play the game).

 

Presentation:

- During fights the spaces next to the fighter pictures are only used for title belts and remain empty otherwise, which is most of the time. They could be used for so much more! Show us useful information that add to the atmosphere like company rankings, world rankings, injuries that happened in the match, the momentum flames, active winning streaks... The title belt could still be shown, but much smaller than now.

 

Roster:

- Maybe I just haven't found out how to do it, but I'm not able to filter my roster for popularity by region like I could in WMMA3. For example show all fighters that are high level national in the US. That's absolutely necessary if you plan to move up in size or hold events in specific regions.

- There's a need of an "Availability"-button that shows in chronological or alphabetical order how many days are left per fighter until they are available again (perhaps as a quick button on the office screen?)

 

User Friendliness

- shortlist icon on fighter profiles: When events of other promotions have taken place I always check them for fighters to shortlist. It would be nice if an icon on the fighter profile would show that he's already on my shortlist so I don't have to push the shortlist button to find out he already is.

- If a fighter's contract is up for renewal I always get 2 emails, 1 saying "xxx and UFC" and 1 saying "xxx contract renewal". Is this really necessary?

- match making screen - sort broadcasters in alphabetical order: As a big promotion you have many broadcasters and need to find specific ones for your events. Broadcasters being sorted in alphabetical order would make this much easier.

- broadcaster contract renewal message: maybe it's possible to include a button in the email to jump directly to the negotiation to save the clicking

- right now it's not possible to access the notepad during an event like in WMMA3 - this would be a nice one for a comeback

 

Game Engine

- after one year I still have many fighters (approximately 20-30 % on my roster) who have not joined camps

- the way "fight draw" works: As a high national company in a high national region, two mid-nationals coming off a loss should go to the prelims, but a mid-national against a low-regional both on winning streaks equals a decent main event? I don't get it, but I've made my peace with it.

- more a question, because I saw this on fighters' skills: how can experience decrease?

 

Match engine:

- There are too few TKOs compared to WMMA3, although that might be a mod-specific thing

- fighters seem to take little damage in clinch / against the cage

- fighters are stood up by referees while being in dominant positions

 

Keep up the great work, Adam. My money is with you.

[Blackman]

- more a question, because I saw this on fighters' skills: how can experience decrease?

- the way "fight draw" works: As a high national company in a high national region, two mid-nationals coming off a loss should go to the prelims, but a mid-national against a low-regional both on winning streaks equals a decent main event? I don't get it, but I've made my peace with it.

- fighters seem to take little damage in clinch / against the cage

 

- Never seen experience decrease. It's a mental stat, so I guess it's mental deterioration. No idea how that happens.

 

- It's weird, and it forces me to make weird main event decisions out of nowhere. You basically have to feed people cans. There's a big difference between a winning streak and coming off a loss. The game however seems to overvalue people coming from random organisations with winning streaks. The biggest success you can possibly have with the game is choosing a champion and cherrypicking the best cans from the streets who did some local shows and feed them to the champ. The fans won't care how popular they are.

 

- The same applies to ground and pound, but it's not really problematic imo. Side control is a bad position for G&P and that is exactly the position they do it from in WMMA4 after knockdowns. Imo there should be a 'standing over' position where G&P is empowered.

[Remianen]

And pretty much the biggest con about the game right now, for me, is the overall lack of depth and personality the game has. There really is nothing that makes you get excited about fighters or watching fights. There needs to be something that makes you care or hate fighters in your organization. More interaction from fighters and CEO, more personal stories about fighters, more things come out about fighters that help build the character up, either nice heart warming things or nasty things that help build a fan favorite or a heal. I know we all have our favorite fighters, but it would be great to see some random e-mail or news article come out about that fighter, either telling you about some nice thing in his life, some terrible thing he's done, or maybe trying to hype his up coming fight by taking about how he'll beat down his opponent.

 

This happens to a (very small) extent already. I've had fights set up due to stories like one fighter posting an "offensive rant" about another fighter on social media. It creates a negative relationship between them (strong dislike) and essentially gives you a ready made feud. Sometimes it works out extremely well. For example, in my current game, Setsuko Henmi (a Bantamweight) posted an offensive rant about Janinha (a featherweight). So I booked a catchweight fight between them. Two months prior to that, Janinha's protege, Marisa Calinas had debuted. So Henmi knocked Janinha out and Janinha retired immediately after the fight. Well well well, I have a ready-made feud lined up, if I choose to pursue it. Another example is Kimberley Hunt ranting about Lynda Blair (who was injured and out for four more months). When Lynda returned from injury, I booked a fight between them and Lynda tapped her a minute or so into round 1.

 

This feature could definitely be expanded though.

 

that's when women retire in sports...

 

Not true. Not every female athlete is Steffi Graf or Mia Hamm. Women don't retire "at the top of their game" very often and it's daft to say they always retire within a certain age range. I mean, I personally don't consider it a sport but most people seem to and the LPGA Tour has a TON of women over 32. Much of the reason for that is because women's sports don't generally tend to require full-on retirement for maternity (case in point: Candace Parker).

 

The game doesn't care if your main card is filled with Regional fighters as an International company, as long as the main event is okay. It makes the game world static and the player's role unchallenging.

 

But mirrors reality. Main events draw (which is why they're main events). Giving the full card equal footing flies in the face of reality. Show me a company that promotes the sixth fight on the card on a similar level as the main events and I'll show you a company that is clueless about effective marketing.

 

Mixing bigger punishments for flooding a PPV with prelim-worthy fights and a TV system which builds up fighters' popularity while producing less revenue than a main show would help address the balance. You'd be forced to spend time and money building up your roster on TV in order to get the rewards at PPV.

 

First off, there are no punishments for flooding PPVs with prelim-worthy fights. If I put on a show with two 'superb' main events and prelim-rated fights in the other eight slots, as long as one fighter in each matchup is relatively popular and/or has high (4-5 flames) momentum, I'll wind up with a 100% Commercial rating at the end. My personal formula is two 'superb' or 'excellent' main events, one 'potential' or 'strong' main event and the rest is prelim-rated (2-3 'main event the prelims or just scrape onto the main show' then straight prelim fights).

 

I run a female-only company. Quite a few retired around that age early on, but it settled down as regens emerged. Most good fighters went well into their mid or late 30s, and to the point of significant decline in their results.

 

Not even good fighters. I have cans fighting in their 40s. Erica Page is 42 and 13-22 overall, 6-21 WEFF and on an 18-fight losing streak. Henrietta Stein is 40, 8-16/2-14 and was on a 9 fight losing streak until she won her last fight. Roz Wareing, 40, 8-14/4-13, currently on a 13 fight losing streak. What seems to happen is their recovery and/or recuperation plummets and they wind up fighting less as a result, staving off retirement. Erica Page, for example, might fight twice a year since she needs 3 months recuperation time between fights. I don't put on fights in regulated areas so that's pure recuperation time as there are no medical suspensions to contend with.

 

Simply reintroducing competitive credibility would be a start. In the absence of TEW-style competition between companies, it provides at least some limitation on the game being filled with International companies.

 

It might take a combination of things to balance it out - higher wage demands, lower income, AI actually making a bit of an effort to match contract offers, etc.

 

I think the solution is simple: Raise the wage cap. 150k per fight is nothing at International. With the ability to create your own broadcaster and the low cost in doing so ($240 mil for a PPV carrier that's 'Enormous' in every game area. Less than $100 mil for a (ad-supported) TV carrier of the same size and they both pay for themselves within two game years), it's like a license to print money. When your PPVs are producing $71.2 mil per (@100% commercial value), you have to increase costs to balance that out. Having fighters cost up to $1 mil base per fight (plus bonuses) would add complexity to the negotiation process (how much of a performance scale can you tolerate? What about bonuses?). The AI will never be a match for an astute player without allowing it to cheat. In past TEWs, I've pumped and dumped on the AI so much, it almost became second nature. I remember once having CGC paying Jenny Playmate more than some of their (non-DeColt) main eventers.

 

I also think it's pretty difficult to have the world full of international companies unless it's a watcher game. Who lets their competition thrive? In a compacted world like O+, it's easier to keep track of who's doing what but even in a full C-Verse game, it's easy to play keep-away with your competition's best fighters when they're shared (and why wouldn't they be?). The AI's reaction time is slow (2-3 days after a fighter is available, the AI will book them....IF they have a show scheduled, which isn't usually the case). Once you jump out to a (size) lead, it can be extremely difficult to lose it, if you're paying attention.

 

Booking:

- The most important thing for me: Please bring back the min./max. popularity search filter from WMMA3. Booking fights now actually takes more time than in the previous game. Playing as the UFC, the likely usage filter is pretty much useless as it puts >80% of my roster in the prelims section - from mid national to low regional. And I really like to put fighters against each other who have a similar popularity.

 

True. I have a personal workaround for this (I manually keep track of who is at which level, among the fighters I care about, in the notepad) but it would be great to be able to do it within the filters.

 

Game Engine

- after one year I still have many fighters (approximately 20-30 % on my roster) who have not joined camps

 

After 10 years, more than 95% of my roster (of 630) are not in camps. Even with a handful of camps with tons of space available. One camp I imported five years into my current game is top quality ('world-class' in all areas) with 100/10 long-term/visitor maximums and currently has 11 long-term and 3 visitors. I've long since given up on the camp system.

 

Match engine:

- fighters seem to take little damage in clinch / against the cage

- fighters are stood up by referees while being in dominant positions

 

This might be due more to ratings. I've seen knockouts from against the cage (uppercut was lights-out) but typically in very rare circumstances (i.e. a fighter with high punch power & dirty boxing vs a fighter with a chin well below that). It's REALLY rare though (4 times in 2335 matches, for me).

 

The ref standing up thing is annoying though. Kinda like the ref not catching cage grabs (sometimes multiple times in a row).

[iverbure]

I've got news for you the prime in a womens athletic life is not 29 years old. of course they're several women in golf over the age of 32. its far far less physically demanding. you see women enter sports generally earlier and retire sooner. that is going to be the case for mma as well. you aren't going to see many women sticking around who are 35 plus. many will retire before 32. the only reason why the average age is high right now is women in the ufc are getting boatloads of cash in comparsion to what they made just 3 or 4 years ago.

[Remianen]

I've got news for you the prime in a womens athletic life is not 29 years old. of course they're several women in golf over the age of 32. its far far less physically demanding. you see women enter sports generally earlier and retire sooner. that is going to be the case for mma as well. you aren't going to see many women sticking around who are 35 plus. many will retire before 32. the only reason why the average age is high right now is women in the ufc are getting boatloads of cash in comparsion to what they made just 3 or 4 years ago.

 

You said, 'that's when women retire in sports' and that's false. Point blank. You didn't qualify for MMA, you said 'in sports' which includes more than MMA. Tossing out crystal ball logic (which doesn't account for women entering sports later in life than their teens), it's flat-out not true. You'd have to filter out every sport that isn't 'big' in the US (volleyball, racquetball, handball (which is where Cyborg came from), surfing, etc) and even then, it's questionable. When you say women enter 'sports' earlier, you're only talking about a handful of sports (if that): basketball and soccer are the only two that come to mind. But I've got news for you, there are more sports than those that women play on a professional level. Combat sports have only been a viable professional outlet for women for about 5-8 years now. The best amateur wrestler in a generation (Kyoko Hamaguchi) made a better living as an amateur than she would have as a pro wrestler (which she wanted to be, like her daddy) or an MMA fighter. And she's from Japan where these areas are highly respected! Women's MMA is experiencing a surge as a result of a transcendent talent with massive crossover appeal: Ronda. When/if she leaves the fight game, you're more likely to see interest FALL (maybe even crater) than rise. Remember Christy Martin?

[iverbure]

couldn't agree more! you're wrong and im right.

[Blackman]

couldn't agree more! you're wrong and im right.

 

I'd say you're both right.

 

In combat sports it's a little special, like Remi indicates. The average age of Olympic wrestling champions is 27, and those are averages dating back to the first Olympic games. Then women's wrestling happened and the average of that branch was less than 21 (with someone under 19 ffs) in Athens. It started rising and in 2012 we saw ages of 30+ popping up. Sure, we can attribute that to the relatively new phenomenon of women's olympic wrestling, and it should be exactly like that in women's MMA (and it is). I don't see people like Cat Albert deteriorating fast on a physical level. But maybe they should deteriorate more in the game when they are 40.

 

So it's still a little unclear. Age isn't much of a factor in a newly established competitive sport. Skill is. I was able to accurately predict all four women's champions for wrestling, because they all won almost everything going into the event.

[Blackman]

What annoys me lately is the absence of the 'To Be Announced' booking (which was there in WMMA3). Now I have to book people with low preperation like Hope Lehane a month in advance against a random person, until her actual opponent is ready to be booked.

[Celuwyn]

<p>The developer's Journal from TEW16 is very good, a couple of things could be implemented to WMMA5 :</p><p>

Mar 01: Advance To Next Show</p><p>

Mar 01: Advance To End Of Month</p><p>

Mar 01: Advance To End Of Year</p><p> </p><p>

Mar 01: Multi Advance Stop</p><p> </p><p>

Feb 03: Home Bases & Travel Costs & Moving House</p><p> </p><p>

Feb 05: Organic Biographies (It was us that reclamed that no ? <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" />)</p><p> </p><p>

Feb 10: Generic Venues (with Real Venues !)</p><p> </p><p>

Feb 12: Body Types</p><p> </p><p>

Feb 16: Themed Web Site</p>

[Blackman]

<p>I don't see how body types could be a significant factor. There's no visual cue, and it shouldn't have an impact on the fights. In TEW, there would be some stat changes that go with being a certain body type, and it's a part of sports entertainment. At most, there'd be a slight change in 'looks' if they choose to change it for the better, but I honestly don't see why any mixed martial artist would care. It could change conditioning and strenght, but those values exist by themselves and a body type would just categorise it more instead of being dynamic like it is now.</p><p> </p><p>

Some of the other changes make sense if the management section gets an overhaul (to get to the level of TEW). Otherwise I for one won't really care.</p>

[Celuwyn]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Blackman" data-cite="Blackman" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="39833" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I don't see how body types could be a significant factor. There's no visual cue, and it shouldn't have an impact on the fights. In TEW, there would be some stat changes that go with being a certain body type, and it's a part of sports entertainment. At most, there'd be a slight change in 'looks' if they choose to change it for the better, but I honestly don't see why any mixed martial artist would care. It could change conditioning and strenght, but those values exist by themselves and a body type would just categorise it more instead of being dynamic like it is now.<p> </p><p> Some of the other changes make sense if the management section gets an overhaul (to get to the level of TEW). Otherwise I for one won't really care.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I think it would be a good factor. People like Roy Nelson would benefit from a bonus to defend against body shot for example, People like UBEREEM can have a good cardio, but if they land a good blow and fail to finish the fight, they will run ot of gas more quickly. (Hum, maybe you're right after all <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" />)</p><p> </p><p> But i want to see a management section in WMMA, choosing the venue would be good !</p>

[Donners]

I liked the ability to put a child promotion on your own network. That isn't in WMMA, IIRC.

[Blackman]

<p>Choosing a venue only truly makes sense if there's dynamic cost management. Now it's just a case of calculated risk, which is why Adam is changing it in TEW. For many, it would just be something extra in-between fights/booking. I'm willing to embrace expanded management in WMMA4, but it's gotta be good. Not just endless clicking without visible output.</p><p> </p><p>

You have a point with Nelson, but isn't it more lucrative to create a stat similar to "chin strenght" and apply it to the body? But this is the wrong thread for suggestions. <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[Brownhouse]

i Hate that there are no fighter pics on the ranking screen. i know it seems small but i think it makes a massive difference

[scuz]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Brownhouse" data-cite="Brownhouse" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="39833" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>i Hate that there are no fighter pics on the ranking screen. i know it seems small but i think it makes a massive difference</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I hear ya.</p><p> </p><p> That is a real biggie for me too. I loved in WMMA3 how you could see at a glance what everyone in the rankings looked like. It gave the ranking screen personality and added a fair amount of immersion to the game IMO. </p><p> </p><p> I <em>really</em> hope Adam brings this back in the next game.</p>

[thamolas]

I'd like to see some more interactions with your fighters. Rather than camp changes being random I'd like to be able to advise them to join a camp that trains an attribute they're weak at. Obviously it shouldn't be guaranteed they'd join but it would be cool to offer advice that they may take on board.

 

Also interactions with your fighters that increase your relationship with them and loyalty to your brand would be cool. Post event conferences asking about certain fighters and events that took place would add a really cool layer of authenticity to an already sweet game

 

These are fantastic ideas!

[Blackman]

In the statistics screen I kind of miss the 'takedown defense' notes. Maybe Adam removed the count as it slowed down the game, but looking up these things pre-event gives way more color to the fight. Now I have to skim through every fight to know the stats.

[Blackman]

Another thing I'm missing is the retirement announcement. In WMMA3 fighters would let you know they are retiring and will have one more match. In WMMA4 they just retire on the spot, even if they're doing well. Reality is split somewhat in the middle: some retire after a fight, some announce it in-between, and some announce it a year before.

 

Normally it's not a problem, but the annoucement usually had me setting up a superfight between divisions if the person in question was a future hall of famer. Too bad it's not even an option in WMMA4. £Hopefully we see a more dynamic system in the next game, where they even come back from retirement in rare cases depending on motivation (if the price is right or there's glory to be won).

[Afroduck]

Another thing I'm missing is the retirement announcement. In WMMA3 fighters would let you know they are retiring and will have one more match. In WMMA4 they just retire on the spot, even if they're doing well. Reality is split somewhat in the middle: some retire after a fight, some announce it in-between, and some announce it a year before.

 

Normally it's not a problem, but the annoucement usually had me setting up a superfight between divisions if the person in question was a future hall of famer. Too bad it's not even an option in WMMA4. £Hopefully we see a more dynamic system in the next game, where they even come back from retirement in rare cases depending on motivation (if the price is right or there's glory to be won).

 

 

Hadn't played the game in quite a long time and I finally got back into it and I can say that this is definitely annoying. I have had a couple of guys retire that I was planning on giving title shots too.

 

The one that bugged me the most was I set up a number one contender fight between Templeton Crumb Vs Fukusaburu Hirano. Hirano beat him and Crumb retired, but then Hirano failed a drug test and the fight was changed to a No Contest. There is just no way I could see Crumb retiring on a NC.

 

Plus I probably would have just handed him a Title Shot.

[Blackman]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Afroduck" data-cite="Afroduck" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="39833" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Hirano beat him and Crumb retired, but then Hirano failed a drug test and the fight was changed to a No Contest. There is just no way I could see Crumb retiring on a NC. <p> </p><p> Plus I probably would have just handed him a Title Shot.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> In some cases you just don't see any guy retiring if they would get a title shot after a win. No matter what his motivation is. Some will just call it quits no matter what. But this is too monotonous.</p><p> </p><p> I can see, however, that in the drug case he would still retire given he lost and "doesn't deserve it" or might be disgusted by the sport because of it. Or the way McMann entered MMA because of weird judging, for instance.</p>

[Afroduck]

<p>Oh ya I could see reasons why Crumb would still retire, but not in this case my then WW champ was a long time rival. One that he called out numerous times for a rematch, one that he had a strong dislike with and one he had been booked against, but got hurt. When he came back from injury I decided he needed one more big win and that was the Hirano fight which also was the Main Event.</p><p> </p><p>

Honestly him technically coming of a NC I can't see him turning down one last shot at a title and a true grudge match.</p><p> </p><p>

But that's the way it is and I have long since moved past it.</p>

[highlightfilm]

one thing I am not a fan of is the short LHW fighters and MW fighter we got so much 5'11 barely scraping 6'0 LHW but in reality guys like Daniel Cormier are short LHWs.

[highlightfilm]

the game also has a tendency of having terrible stats....fights that go to decision have like an average of 20-50 punches landed and that tends to be it...and the fights that tend to get over 100 end up being Average,Decent, or Poor rated....I'd like to see fractions of all strikes (i.e. 52/112) and have a percentage on strikes landed/attempted. I don't like how power punches tend to get neglected either. But the game overall is pretty satisfying

[iverbure]

one thing I am not a fan of is the short LHW fighters and MW fighter we got so much 5'11 barely scraping 6'0 LHW but in reality guys like Daniel Cormier are short LHWs.

 

if you followed mma in 2006 and prior they were all kinds of Terry Martin types who were maybe 5'8 but fighting at 205 and above. not saying they should\ve been fighting there but it was common place.

[iverbure]

Another thing I'm missing is the retirement announcement. In WMMA3 fighters would let you know they are retiring and will have one more match. In WMMA4 they just retire on the spot, even if they're doing well. Reality is split somewhat in the middle: some retire after a fight, some announce it in-between, and some announce it a year before.

 

Normally it's not a problem, but the annoucement usually had me setting up a superfight between divisions if the person in question was a future hall of famer. Too bad it's not even an option in WMMA4. £Hopefully we see a more dynamic system in the next game, where they even come back from retirement in rare cases depending on motivation (if the price is right or there's glory to be won).

 

the easy fix to this is make retirements editable, where you can unretired a fighter. even if he retires right after his next fight again. you can pretend he is not.

 

but many people will complain its not realistic so maybe that could be work into the destiny of a fighter. where each guy is given the 3 options you talked about above. Offering fighters a ridicious amount of money to come back and fight no matter what is pretty realistic and common place, nobody in mma is turning down millions not to come back and fight again. Lesnar and GSP are both coming back.

 

only way you shouldn't be able to bring someone back is if they either die or suffer a career ending injury. but to be honest I think you should be able to edit that as well.