What are the best/worst things about WMMA4?

[Makhai]

Plus, the thing with Albert and McMann is that she somehow got lucky that:

1. Cat couldn't contain her emotions and just rushed into the matchup.

2. McMann never took a body shot quite like that and blocked.

 

Don't get me wrong: she deserves all the credit in the world for exploiting both situations. You gotta be truly great to do that. But if those matchups dragged on, who's to say she would've won.

 

 

 

That does make sense somehow, but I never noticed in the game. When Seth Petrucelli (see, I even remember his name) beat Kimbo, the guy profited. Never heard from him again, but he did get the boost in pop.

 

Sara is a classic example of having the credentials to be great, but just not being able to cope with getting hit/ having someone attempt to rip your arm off. It's a visceral thing while grappling just doesn't have that. It's the difference between studying Roman military technique in a classroom and having a shield thrust into your hands and being told to phalanx in front of 100,000 charging Persian Immortals. Some people are adrenaline junkies and take to that sort of thing very easily. While everybody else gets overwhelmed by it. Sara is one of the latter, and she still hasn't recovered from the buzzsaw she ran into.

 

As far as what happens if the fight goes on? Ronda drops her with punches and armbars her. Sara isn't an effective enough boxer, even at that point, to keep Ronda from swarming her with punches/kicks. And this is me giving her credit enough to think she'd stop the Judo Toss onto her face, which I'm not even sure of.

 

As for Cat, that was just one of the most moronic things I've ever seen from a fighter of her calbur. But it's what you expect when one of the most talented fighters trains exclusively with her husband her whole career and never bothers to crack a laptop to watch how her opponent fights. I laughed my ass off when she did an interview after the fight and copped to never seeing Ronda fight before.

 

If that fight went on, knowing her level of preparation, she probably shoots a double and gets insta-armbar'd either way.

[Celuwyn]

Everybody makes fun at her flying knee (Cat) but hey, i don't recall anyone making fun of the flying knee of Jon Jones. Man, it's the same thing.. except that the knee of Jones hit the target. If Shogun had his overhand launched at the same time, Jon Jones would be down

[Blackman]

If that fight went on, knowing her level of preparation, she probably shoots a double and gets insta-armbar'd either way.

 

Why would you conclude that? She cares more about kneeing people in the face if I base myself on previous fights and wants to stand (though there's a few exceptions). If Ronda wouldn't have been careful when she would've initiated the clinch, she might've been TKO'd right there. But woulda-shoulda I guess.

 

You're right that her level of preparation is the complete opposite of Ronda's. But - going back to the purpose of the thread - you can't accurately represent a fighter like Cat in the game atm. You can give them "kicker" and "strong starter" along with highly diversified kicking techniques, but it won't always be like that (though I have yet to try it honestly).

[SirMichaelJordan]

No. Just no. Bethe Correra and Holly Holm withstanding she's beaten the cream of the crop at Women's 135. Including the very best Meisha had to offer twice. Alexis Davis, Sara McMann, Cat Alberts, Sarah Kaufman Those are the best that division has to offer. Only girl whose made 135 that she hasn't fought yet is Marloes Coenen and she's doesn't wanna cut that far anymore, happy in Invicta. Cyborg has never fought below 140(and she only made that weight once)

 

She's just a level of athlete with the mental aptitude that we haven't seen from a female athlete since Venus and Serena showed up in the WTA 20 years ago. And ate Martina Hingis for lunch at Wimbeldon. You don't get to retcon those girls achievements because they can't survive 30 seconds in the cage with the Frate Trane that is Rail Road. She's just that damn good.

 

Then we have to agree to disagree.

 

Ronda is fresh corn in an aisle full of canned corn. Her opponents have not done much and have not built a name for themselves (unlike the woman the Williams sisters faced). Its not Ronda's fault but her opposition are not very talented. She's before her time. She was a huge favorite in pretty much all of her fights. The fact that you named an opponent who's training is suspect and didn't even watch film on Ronda says a lot. Especially if you are the huge underdog.

 

I mean guys like Cro Cop and Fedor made a name for themselves beating on less talented fighters as well... So no shame. My point was originally about the mechanics of WMMA4.

[Makhai]

Then we have to agree to disagree.

 

Ronda is fresh corn in an aisle full of canned corn. Her opponents have not done much and have not built a name for themselves (unlike the woman the Williams sisters faced). Its not Ronda's fault but her opposition are not very talented. She's before her time. She was a huge favorite in pretty much all of her fights. The fact that you named an opponent who's training is suspect and didn't even watch film on Ronda says a lot. Especially if you are the huge underdog.

 

I mean guys like Cro Cop and Fedor made a name for themselves beating on less talented fighters as well... So no shame. My point was originally about the mechanics of WMMA4.

 

 

You are missusing the term "can" then. It's not an overmatched, but similarly accomplished fighter. it's a guy with zero accomplishment put in-front of someone to make them look better than they are. Beating a top-5 guy in 30sec doesn't make the other guy a can all of a sudden. That's some bullshit revisionism. Frankie Saenz is a can. Justin Ailers, can. Hong Man Choi, can. But if you're calling multiple time champion Tim Slyvia, who had just forced his way out of the UFC a can, because he got 400lbs and lamped in some Oklahoma cage a year after they fought.

[Makhai]

Why would you conclude that? She cares more about kneeing people in the face if I base myself on previous fights and wants to stand (though there's a few exceptions). If Ronda wouldn't have been careful when she would've initiated the clinch, she might've been TKO'd right there. But woulda-shoulda I guess.

 

You're right that her level of preparation is the complete opposite of Ronda's. But - going back to the purpose of the thread - you can't accurately represent a fighter like Cat in the game atm. You can give them "kicker" and "strong starter" along with highly diversified kicking techniques, but it won't always be like that (though I have yet to try it honestly).

 

Maybe, but Cat is a wrestler by trade, I'd imagine in a big fight that she's going on instinct she'd want to get it on the floor.

 

Yeah, there's no attribute for brain dead fighters. Closest is Menially Crumbles, but we're talking like Melvin Guillard shooting a double on Nate Diaz after tooling him for 2 rounds, just laughably inexplicable shit. Good idea for a suggestion for an Attribute. Let's call it "Combat:WTF?"

[Celuwyn]

Ronda reminds me of Roy Jones

 

"And they got the nerve to say I ain't fight nobody

I just make 'em look like nobody"

 

[Paatero]

You are missusing the term "can" then. It's not an overmatched, but similarly accomplished fighter. it's a guy with zero accomplishment put in-front of someone to make them look better than they are. Beating a top-5 guy in 30sec doesn't make the other guy a can all of a sudden. That's some bullshit revisionism. Frankie Saenz is a can. Justin Ailers, can. Hong Man Choi, can. But if you're calling multiple time champion Tim Slyvia, who had just forced his way out of the UFC a can, because he got 400lbs and lamped in some Oklahoma cage a year after they fought.

 

 

Frankie Saenz is a can? 3-0 in the UFC with victories over Yuri Alcantara and Sirwan Kakai? I think you are mistaken.

 

I generally find it gross to call any real person a can, but there are certainly fighters where the description of the term fits. I just don't think a guy like Saenz is it. Hong Man Choi is a bit closer, but he's somewhat accomplished too from what I can remember. And a big boy.

 

// Offtopic

[Blackman]

It's not about who's a can and who's not. It's in the use of a character. UFC obviously uses some fighters as cans. This was obvious for example in VanZant's latest fight (Magana?). If you book a fight in WMMA4 and you KNOW a fighter will most likely lose even if the fight looks close on paper (as you can see his skills or just know him), than you're using him as a 'can'. There can be 10-0 cans for all I care.

[SirMichaelJordan]

I think a legit strategy is to build a fighter up be giving him fights that he could clearly win based on match ups in hopes that he finishes the fight and then eventually feed that hot fighter to one of your top dogs for a big payday or even book a fight with him against one of your future top stars who is really legit based on his skills.

[KeyserSoze]

I'll begin with the conclusion and then I'll give my reasons.

 

I like WMMA4 less than TEW13. However I play WMMA4 much more.

 

Best

 

For me the best of WMMA is the flow of the game itself. The balance between the depth and speed is optimal. With games like TEW13 or (FM15) I begun the game with great expectations but the detail of the game is too much and I felt dragged down. With WMMA4 I don't have this problema.

 

Worst.

 

I feel less connections with the characters. No matter is is Cverse or Real Data, the level of interactions are less deep, so I live less the game.

 

Some info presentation is suboptimal. I would like to see something like "XXX giving the suspensions and his training time can fight in 93 days".

 

Just my 2 cents

[Blackman]

If someone would take the time to mod WMMA4 like... a lot, the problem with 'connecting' would be over. If would take a lot of time writing articles, though. So far few modders have embraced the features for this, unfortunately, but a level of connection almost like TEW is definately possible.

[cdidman]

If someone would take the time to mod WMMA4 like... a lot, the problem with 'connecting' would be over. If would take a lot of time writing articles, though. So far few modders have embraced the features for this, unfortunately, but a level of connection almost like TEW is definately possible.

 

I'm not sure if I understand this, are you saying I could write articles for the game so they would pop up in the news? If this is what you mean, I would be interested in doing this, I would just have to know how to do this. I'm not fully understanding this, so maybe I just sound dumb. WMMA 4 certainly needs MORE articles and random things that could happen to fighters.

[Blackman]

I'm not sure if I understand this, are you saying I could write articles for the game so they would pop up in the news? If this is what you mean, I would be interested in doing this, I would just have to know how to do this. I'm not fully understanding this, so maybe I just sound dumb. WMMA 4 certainly needs MORE articles and random things that could happen to fighters.

 

You can indeed program articles into the career mode, but only on set dates. And they aren't dynamic or anything. You can't edit Adam's writeups as that's part of the code.

[Blackman]

Lately I'm trying to get more excitement out of the game by going over the statistics before each event. Sure, the new pre-event screen does a great job covering some of the info, but it's a bummer having to go through each fight recap to see if a fighter ever got taken down in his career. WMMA3 did have that information, but I'm sure there's a reason it got cut. Maybe it slowed the game or data clogging or something.

[Donners]

In the UFC they are able to run TV shows with less popular fighters and I'm certain their overall popularity doesn't take a hit. In WMMA 4 I can't run a TV show anywhere in the USA with my lesser known fighters without taking a huge hit after I become a high level national or higher org.

 

The strange thing is that you used to be able to do that in 3. I have no idea why that was changed.

 

Then again, that's the only real challenge once you get to HLN, so maybe it serves a purpose.

[BrokenCycle]

It was a good change. In WMMA3 you could just spam TV shows to get you over the hump of the bad period where the popularity of your fighters couldn't support the popularity of your promotion.

 

It's not that realistic in WMMA4, but it's a good thing because it makes sense in terms of a video game. Plus, you actually get more popularity from good TV than good PPVs.

[Blackman]

Plus, you actually get more popularity from good TV than good PPVs.

 

You do? Quite frankly I don't think I ever hosted a TV show. I though it was just a name to give your events. Didn't think it was a feature or anything.

[Celuwyn]

You do? Quite frankly I don't think I ever hosted a TV show. I though it was just a name to give your events. Didn't think it was a feature or anything.

 

He talks about Subscription or Advertisement type of show, not PPV i think

[Blackman]

He talks about Subscription or Advertisement type of show, not PPV i think

 

Good because I agree on the fact that a "TV show" is kind of a flaky concept now. Adam is right to change it to advertisement.

[redgiant]

Have you seen abrupt retirements in your saves? I have seen a few female fighters who were on the winning streaks, one of them who even remained undefeated in her career, decided to quit at around 32.

[iverbure]

that's when women retire in sports...

[Donners]

It was a good change. In WMMA3 you could just spam TV shows to get you over the hump of the bad period where the popularity of your fighters couldn't support the popularity of your promotion.

 

It's not that realistic in WMMA4, but it's a good thing because it makes sense in terms of a video game. Plus, you actually get more popularity from good TV than good PPVs.

 

Since there's no incentive to run shows in different locations, you can just have Advertising in your home location and PPV elsewhere. That way your fighters can build popularity where they need to and you still get a truckload of money for each show.

 

Unfortunately, I don't think the system works well in game terms at all.

 

Fighters outside the top of the card, or without huge momentum, are so slow to gain popularity that the pay demands for the bulk of the roster are very low - especially compared to the huge revenue you get from broadcast deals.

 

The game doesn't care if your main card is filled with Regional fighters as an International company, as long as the main event is okay. It makes the game world static and the player's role unchallenging.

 

It's virtually impossible to lose money once you have a broadcast deal - a company in my game has every half-decent fighter taken away and relies purely on new regens, yet still makes a solid profit.

 

Mixing bigger punishments for flooding a PPV with prelim-worthy fights and a TV system which builds up fighters' popularity while producing less revenue than a main show would help address the balance. You'd be forced to spend time and money building up your roster on TV in order to get the rewards at PPV.

 

Have you seen abrupt retirements in your saves? I have seen a few female fighters who were on the winning streaks, one of them who even remained undefeated in her career, decided to quit at around 32.

 

I run a female-only company. Quite a few retired around that age early on, but it settled down as regens emerged. Most good fighters went well into their mid or late 30s, and to the point of significant decline in their results.

[Blackman]

The game is not a company sim like TEW, even though you actually play a company. And it's quite true that people don't care about the main card. They watch events based on the main or co-main draw. There are few exceptions.

 

Maybe Adam can make some sort of 'hardcore' option that makes it a lot harder, but quite frankly it gets 'easy' by the available providers. There's nothing really wrong with the engine. Someone could make a mod where the providers are toned down so profits are much lower.

 

Some women do retire earlier, but it's quite fine in my database. Some go on until they are 40. Some retire as early as -30, but that's rare.

[Donners]

 

Maybe Adam can make some sort of 'hardcore' option that makes it a lot harder, but quite frankly it gets 'easy' by the available providers. There's nothing really wrong with the engine. Someone could make a mod where the providers are toned down so profits are much lower.

 

Simply reintroducing competitive credibility would be a start. In the absence of TEW-style competition between companies, it provides at least some limitation on the game being filled with International companies.

 

It might take a combination of things to balance it out - higher wage demands, lower income, AI actually making a bit of an effort to match contract offers, etc.