What are the best/worst things about WMMA4?

[AlexB]

Yeah, in general WMMA3 was by far the more fun game to play, bar the contracts.

 

WMMA3 with the contracts, fighter creator and local show setup from WMMA4 would be the perfect hybrid

[Makhai]

Not a fan of the changes to the tournament set up. I liked having a tournament take place all in one night - rather than having to set each fight up individually and spread over many dates.

 

I like the inclusion of multi-night tournaments, and achievements/belts for them, just not at the expense of one-night tournaments. Running a JMMA save atm, and it's hollow without the Final 4 all in one night.

[gingerdilligaf]

The fact a game developer listens. I'm on a lot of gaming forums & i see a lot of frustration about lack of communication or changes but the fact the game can evolve through feedback is a major positive.

[Blackman]

If you somehow thing he's going to bring back 1-day tournaments, you're out of luck. He already mentioned several times that it's impossible without screwing up the game engine. I don't know what makes it impossible: recuperation?

 

Fact is that it's very hard to simulate correctly. The UFC game on DC did it by lowering your health bar if you'd taken damage in the previous fight, but I think we can all agree this is a laughable measure and in no way a realistic simulation. Adam doesn't have to worry about visual wear, but fighters are not the same (at all) when they start the second match and would have several 'injuries' assigned upon starting. Why do you even want the feature if a realistic implementation is impossible given the current engine?

 

I do miss it because it made the game a lot easier. You could just create a new star out of nowhere after mopping up 8 cans from the street, and use him as a contender several months later. Kind of silly, actually.

[Makhai]

If you somehow thing he's going to bring back 1-day tournaments, you're out of luck. He already mentioned several times that it's impossible without screwing up the game engine. I don't know what makes it impossible: recuperation?

 

Fact is that it's very hard to simulate correctly. The UFC game on DC did it by lowering your health bar if you'd taken damage in the previous fight, but I think we can all agree this is a laughable measure and in no way a realistic simulation. Adam doesn't have to worry about visual wear, but fighters are not the same (at all) when they start the second match and would have several 'injuries' assigned upon starting. Why do you even want the feature if a realistic implementation is impossible given the current engine?

 

I do miss it because it made the game a lot easier. You could just create a new star out of nowhere after mopping up 8 cans from the street, and use him as a contender several months later. Kind of silly, actually.

 

This isn't anything to do with why Adam can't code 1-nighters back into the game. It worked quite well in 3 with damage carry over and a dimishment of their gas. It's the changes to way pre-fight injuries/ suspensions are given out by the new engine. Which btw, isn't a realistic system all medical suspensions are voided the minute a doctor clears them which is usually the second they get an appointment. Even then, nobody enforces the suspensions, the fighters still train freely even with the no-contact order. Some even fighting same day they're rescinded. It's just there to force guys to get a doctor to look at them again a ways after the fight, or properly care for an injury. It's not taken, or enforced literally. And that's not even talking about the fact THEY DON'T EXIST AT ALL IN UNREGULATED REGIONS(JAPAN)

 

As for the OPness of tournaments? That's just a tuning issue, and frankly flames are 400x more broken.

[Blackman]

Flames are just a visual representation of something else that is broken. Nothing broken about a guy with great momentum after he gets a bunch of finishes on top level opponents. What's broken is that they get it from local or can-fights at the same rate.

 

You might be right on the other call, but why would pre-fight injuries get in the way? You mean post-fight injuries? All I know it that Adam said it wasn't possible. If it was he would've implemented it by now as several people have complained already. So I'd stop complaining as it won't change a thing, unfortunately.

[BrokenCycle]

I definitely think that momentum is a really broken game mechanic. Obviously everyone has seen High Level International ratings for dominant champion vs scrub no one has ever heard of just because they each have high momentum. It just makes no sense.

[Blackman]

Yes, but the fault is that local shows grant way too much of it. Momentum itself is a great feature. It's just implemented in a non-optimal way.

 

I fixed it in O+ by using a sole geographical area to keep local fights under control. Upon testing it becomes way harder to generate momentum. You can still do it by using the can-crusher method Remi likes, and that's imo a legit way to use it. It just makes no sense that fighters build momentum by beating up supercans in matches that no one has ever seen (apart from the 50 people present).

[BrokenCycle]

That is very true.

 

I feel obligated, though, to give this game some more love to this game by changing my opinion on something that I, among most other people, thought was a horrible game mechanic. TV show popularity-- great change. I especially like that you actually gain more popularity from great TV than great PPVs.

[SirMichaelJordan]

Local fights as in the fights unemployed fighters get? I haven't seen any of those fighters get momentum after a finish using the latest patch.

[Blackman]

I also haven't "seen" it. All I know is that most are 12-0, all of them local fights, and with several flames behind their name. That fire isn't coming out of their ass.

[SirMichaelJordan]

I also haven't "seen" it. All I know is that most are 12-0, all of them local fights, and with several flames behind their name. That fire isn't coming out of their ass.

 

Are you sure those fights weren't finishes from actual companies? Since that post I've been tracking some fighters who ended their local fights with a sub or TKO/KO and they have not gotten any momentum from it. Maybe those flames are carry overs from an older patch?

[Kingster]

Are you sure those fights weren't finishes from actual companies? Since that post I've been tracking some fighters who ended their local fights with a sub or TKO/KO and they have not gotten any momentum from it. Maybe those flames are carry overs from an older patch?

 

I've made a similar observation. Fights against local fighters don't seem to have an impact on a fighter's momentum anymore (or at least not as much as regular opponents).

[Paatero]

I can confirm that local fighters do not award momentum when beaten, but they can cancel negative momentum. To gain flames, a fighter needs to beat an actual fighter available in the database.

[Blackman]

That is indeed possible as I haven't played in a while. Funny it wasn't mentioned as a patch note. Or I might've missed it.

 

In that case the issue is resolved for me. When they finish 'legit' cans, they should get momentum.

[TLCJR4LIFE]

Flames are just a visual representation of something else that is broken. Nothing broken about a guy with great momentum after he gets a bunch of finishes on top level opponents. What's broken is that they get it from local or can-fights at the same rate.

 

You might be right on the other call, but why would pre-fight injuries get in the way? You mean post-fight injuries? All I know it that Adam said it wasn't possible. If it was he would've implemented it by now as several people have complained already. So I'd stop complaining as it won't change a thing, unfortunately.

 

 

Have to say I disagree strongly. This style of booking was literally PRIDE 101.

 

Between the freak shows, sumo wrestlers, kickboxers, pro wrestlers.... hell just look at Fedor's record and glance over it with the benefit of hindsight.

Hell, the main event of PRIDE Bushido 1 was a 50 beatdown of Dos Caras Jr, aka Alberto Del Rio, luchador mask and all by Mirko Cro Cop...

 

That style of booking is cheap, but it DEFINITELY is realistic.

 

A more modern example, see Slice, Kimbo.

 

The general public are shills. Guys looking spectacular beating up cans and heavy marketing(which is reflected by marketability in this game) make up popularity arguably more than a good, solid fighter does... I dont even think half the MMA fans could identify Ronda's last opponent in a bar if they saw her, but that fight did 900k buys just because Ronda is on fire right now and the person was built up as a credible opponent.

[Blackman]

Your argument makes little sense. Pride and Elite-XC are far from 'local' promotions (at least WMMA's conception of it). The only thing I said was that a local promotion's can-fight shouldn't be the same as a legit promotion's fight.

 

I know how Pride booked... But they were the top promotion. They hire 'talent'. It automatically becomes legit as there's no one else more legit. If those are 'cans', I wonder what the unsigned fighters are.

 

What's realistic doesn't really matter btw. This is a game, and a diversity of styles should be possible. But logic would dictate that a finish of a P4P-lister would get more flames as more people would appreciate the meaning of it. If UFC signs a random dude and he'd get clobbered, the fighter who did would get some momentum, but not much.

[SirMichaelJordan]

Ronda has been finishing cans her entire UFC career and she is the most popular fighter in the org and is dubbed the greatest female fighter ever.

 

If a under dog finished a P4P fighter not only would he get a flame but he would also get popularity if I am not mistaken as a P4P fighter would most likely have name value.

[Blackman]

The women's bantamweight division isn't a bunch of cans... Somehow Ronda capitalizes on every mistake they make and gets away with it. Good for her, but bad example really... There might be a skill discrepancy that is bigger than the men's divisions, but it's not as big as you might think.

 

Popularity has little to do with the person that gets finished. When a match happens, 3 things change:

 

- popularity: tied to match quality, type of broadcast and card position

- reputation: tied to opponent ranking

- momentum: tied to match finish

 

These often get confused. Correct me if I forgot something, but I'm practically sure this is true for the game (and for reality for that matter). Obviously all are tied to match result (duh ).

[SirMichaelJordan]

I am pretty sure a fighter gets a boost in name value when he defeats a guy with a higher name value.

[cdidman]

After playing a lot of hours in both WMMA3 and 4, I think the things I can say about being the best and worst things are these.

 

Worst

 

There isn't much that I would consider bad with the games, but a few minor fight engine tweaks would be great. Add some more paths that a fight can go, it seems very predictable right now how a fight will go once you start reading the fight. Adding some more elbows, cuts, eye pokes, switch kicks, axe kicks, superman punches, or damaging counter strikes, just more of exciting things and unpredictable things that could turn fights.

 

Gyms and training are very shallow in my opinion and I'm not sure what good they are in the game. If a good gym is good for training, why are so many fighters just leaving gyms while they are on winning streaks or even when they win? Not sure what can be done, but gyms and training just don't feel right.

 

Organizations popularity I wish would be something more of a state to state thing other than country to country. In the UFC they are able to run TV shows with less popular fighters and I'm certain their overall popularity doesn't take a hit. In WMMA 4 I can't run a TV show anywhere in the USA with my lesser known fighters without taking a huge hit after I become a high level national or higher org.

 

And pretty much the biggest con about the game right now, for me, is the overall lack of depth and personality the game has. There really is nothing that makes you get excited about fighters or watching fights. There needs to be something that makes you care or hate fighters in your organization. More interaction from fighters and CEO, more personal stories about fighters, more things come out about fighters that help build the character up, either nice heart warming things or nasty things that help build a fan favorite or a heal. I know we all have our favorite fighters, but it would be great to see some random e-mail or news article come out about that fighter, either telling you about some nice thing in his life, some terrible thing he's done, or maybe trying to hype his up coming fight by taking about how he'll beat down his opponent. I'd love to see the Blurcat's Classic Combat be expanded. When they talk to a fighter about a past fight, have him break down the fight more. Or when a fighter is on a show to answer questions, be able to click this and see the show, see the questions that were asked and how he answered them. Or make the weigh ins something too, have it talk about intense stair downs, have it be more of a production. Overall I'd just like to see more lines of text that could come out, right now everything that comes out in the news stream has repeated it's self a million times over. More outcomes on injures, more and different wording on everything. Just depth and personality builders if you know what I mean.

 

The pros to the game are.

It's so addicting and I can't get enough of it. I really do enjoy the game and it is SO close to being one of the top sports simulations around. Thanks Adam for all your work with this great game.

[SirMichaelJordan]

After playing a lot of hours in both WMMA3 and 4, I think the things I can say about being the best and worst things are these.

 

Worst

 

There isn't much that I would consider bad with the games, but a few minor fight engine tweaks would be great. Add some more paths that a fight can go, it seems very predictable right now how a fight will go once you start reading the fight. Adding some more elbows, cuts, eye pokes, switch kicks, axe kicks, superman punches, or damaging counter strikes, just more of exciting things and unpredictable things that could turn fights.

 

Gyms and training are very shallow in my opinion and I'm not sure what good they are in the game. If a good gym is good for training, why are so many fighters just leaving gyms while they are on winning streaks or even when they win? Not sure what can be done, but gyms and training just don't feel right.

 

Organizations popularity I wish would be something more of a state to state thing other than country to country. In the UFC they are able to run TV shows with less popular fighters and I'm certain their overall popularity doesn't take a hit. In WMMA 4 I can't run a TV show anywhere in the USA with my lesser known fighters without taking a huge hit after I become a high level national or higher org.

 

And pretty much the biggest con about the game right now, for me, is the overall lack of depth and personality the game has. There really is nothing that makes you get excited about fighters or watching fights. There needs to be something that makes you care or hate fighters in your organization. More interaction from fighters and CEO, more personal stories about fighters, more things come out about fighters that help build the character up, either nice heart warming things or nasty things that help build a fan favorite or a heal. I know we all have our favorite fighters, but it would be great to see some random e-mail or news article come out about that fighter, either telling you about some nice thing in his life, some terrible thing he's done, or maybe trying to hype his up coming fight by taking about how he'll beat down his opponent. I'd love to see the Blurcat's Classic Combat be expanded. When they talk to a fighter about a past fight, have him break down the fight more. Or when a fighter is on a show to answer questions, be able to click this and see the show, see the questions that were asked and how he answered them. Or make the weigh ins something too, have it talk about intense stair downs, have it be more of a production. Overall I'd just like to see more lines of text that could come out, right now everything that comes out in the news stream has repeated it's self a million times over. More outcomes on injures, more and different wording on everything. Just depth and personality builders if you know what I mean.

 

The pros to the game are.

It's so addicting and I can't get enough of it. I really do enjoy the game and it is SO close to being one of the top sports simulations around. Thanks Adam for all your work with this great game.

 

 

With the game updated, only fighter that leave camps are the guys that are just visiting. I noticed fighters that visit camps only does so for one fight. Everyone else seem long term unless something happens.

 

Maybe the database you are using does not have a lot of fighters tied to camps and the guys who are not with a camp just hop around to different camps?

 

 

 

I agree with the state to state thing 100%. It's one of the main things I dislike about the game other than the boring fight pbp. I think fights were more exciting in WMMA3.

 

Personality is differently lacking and that goes for TEW also. More interaction is a must for both games.

[Blackman]

Gyms and training are very shallow in my opinion and I'm not sure what good they are in the game.

 

He implemented nearly all our suggestions for them leading up to the game. I can't think of any he hasn't converted to the game, so why don't you suggest some improvements for the next version.

 

I guess more logical switches could be an improvement, but I don't see a problem with most of the switches that occured in my games. I can place them from a psychological standpoint most of the time. The whole "never change a winning team" logic is very shallow as well.

 

I agree with SirMichaelJordan in the sense that 3 was more exciting to watch.

 

If you don't like quick visits just disable them for every camp by switching them to 'longterm' or 'permanent'. It takes like 2 minutes.

[Makhai]

Ronda has been finishing cans her entire UFC career and she is the most popular fighter in the org and is dubbed the greatest female fighter ever.

If a under dog finished a P4P fighter not only would he get a flame but he would also get popularity if I am not mistaken as a P4P fighter would most likely have name value.

 

No. Just no. Bethe Correra and Holly Holm withstanding she's beaten the cream of the crop at Women's 135. Including the very best Meisha had to offer twice. Alexis Davis, Sara McMann, Cat Alberts, Sarah Kaufman Those are the best that division has to offer. Only girl whose made 135 that she hasn't fought yet is Marloes Coenen and she's doesn't wanna cut that far anymore, happy in Invicta. Cyborg has never fought below 140(and she only made that weight once)

 

She's just a level of athlete with the mental aptitude that we haven't seen from a female athlete since Venus and Serena showed up in the WTA 20 years ago. And ate Martina Hingis for lunch at Wimbeldon. You don't get to retcon those girls achievements because they can't survive 30 seconds in the cage with the Frate Trane that is Rail Road. She's just that damn good.

[Blackman]

Plus, the thing with Albert and McMann is that she somehow got lucky that:

1. Cat couldn't contain her emotions and just rushed into the matchup.

2. McMann never took a body shot quite like that and blocked.

 

Don't get me wrong: she deserves all the credit in the world for exploiting both situations. You gotta be truly great to do that. But if those matchups dragged on, who's to say she would've won.

 

I am pretty sure a fighter gets a boost in name value when he defeats a guy with a higher name value.

 

That does make sense somehow, but I never noticed in the game. When Seth Petrucelli (see, I even remember his name) beat Kimbo, the guy profited. Never heard from him again, but he did get the boost in pop.