LordofGustav Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 Does anyone here how to book the House Shows?, i feel quite stuck and confused and it has been a while since have booked 1980's like shows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smartman Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="LordofGustav" data-cite="LordofGustav" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="42445" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Does anyone here how to book the House Shows?, i feel quite stuck and confused and it has been a while since have booked 1980's like shows.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Book them like you would book RAW/SD!/Nitro. They were the main shows back in the day while TV was there to further storylines and sell tickets to those shows. You'll have to fudge a little with TV with a good main event since they're not B-shows like they were back then, but your payoff matches should be either house shows or a big monthly show if you have one (Georgia for one doesn't).</p><p> </p><p> Memphis/CWA for instance, ran Monday nights at the Memphis Mid-South Coliseum as their big show. Then, they went to the Louisville Gardens and ran last week's Mid-South show (at least the bigger matches as the undercard might vary) due to Louisville getting the TV show on a week delay as a 2nd big show. If you turned off the repeat booking penalty, you could do that if you wanted, but it might fry your brain. Then, the TV show would have maybe 1 good match with several (all storyline-based) angles that would carry the show. Up that 1 match, and you've pretty much got how they did things back then without a big monthly event.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSchool4life Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 <p>The tv back then was an infomercial to get you to buy a ticket to your weekly town.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> I only see a couple of problems with this game.</p><p> </p><p> Georgia had several more guys on their weekly TV that are not on here.</p><p> </p><p> Marvin Turner and Mike Starbuck (Mike is on '83) were weekly job guys that should be on the game just for that purpose.</p><p> </p><p> Charlie Smith is a longtime ref in that area who was a prominent NWA ref before Tommy Young.</p><p> </p><p> Gerald Finley was a Georgia mainstay and then later went to Florida and the crocketts.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> Steve Travis won WWWF Rookie of the year in 1978 and tagged with Rick McGraw as the "Carolina Connection"</p><p> </p><p> He also beat Austin Idol for the TV title in 1980-81 and was really over at the time. He would've had a huge run but a car wreck paralyzed him. </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> Just some guys I see missing. Besides that I absolutely love the season.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alvarasus Posted August 22, 2017 Author Share Posted August 22, 2017 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="smartman" data-cite="smartman" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="42445" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Freddie Miller doesn't have an assigned pic to him either, though it is easy to find.<p> </p><p> The only issue I'm having so far is it has resurfaced my rage at the change in pop gains from TEW13 to 16. First Georgia house show, run a 90 (seriously, if you're not getting great shows from the start, you're not doing it right; super-high pop and super-talented workers + equal fed or even pop>perf and it is easy town) and get rewarded with $50k and a whopping 0.1 pop gain.<img alt=":mad:" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/mad.png.69834f23b9a8bf290d98375f56f1c794.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p> Is the CWF TV show supposed to be on Saturday? It was on Sunday in the 83 mod, and it makes it nearly impossible to run it as Gordon is going to do Georgia then. I ended up moving the Georgia Sat. show to tape on Tuesday since no one outside of the loaned WWF people are blocked then unlike the JCP people are plus frees Gordon to do another show on Sat.</p><p> </p><p> Also, as I shared with the wonderful 91-93 mod maker, anyone you want to develop well needs to have their basics +4-+6 above their psych as the game caps their growth in psych and selling based on what their basics skill is. So, if it is equal, then those two skills won't improve until the basics skill goes up. It just slows development down a bunch as they might gain only 1 point per month vs the normal 3-4 you see in development (not having dev. feds in this mod may change things slightly but still worth pointing out).</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> </p><p> Wondering when I hear from you. I will move CWF show to fix Gordon Solie issue. From my understanding Solie would do Georgia show then fly back to Tampa to do the Florida show on Saturday in real life. </p><p> </p><p> On developing younger workers if you work them every show they will develop very nicely. We have ran several tests and people progress pretty good. The game doesn't cap their psychology and selling based on what your claiming. </p><p> If you book the workers to face good talent they will grow Barry Windham for example will gain anywhere to 20 to 30 points in the first year in psychology alone. This mod has some the greatest masters of psychology to ever step in the ring. All you have to do is book the young talent against them.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alvarasus Posted August 22, 2017 Author Share Posted August 22, 2017 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="OldSchool4life" data-cite="OldSchool4life" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="42445" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>The tv back then was an infomercial to get you to buy a ticket to your weekly town.<p> </p><p> </p><p> I only see a couple of problems with this game.</p><p> </p><p> Georgia had several more guys on their weekly TV that are not on here.</p><p> </p><p> Marvin Turner and Mike Starbuck (Mike is on '83) were weekly job guys that should be on the game just for that purpose.</p><p> </p><p> Charlie Smith is a longtime ref in that area who was a prominent NWA ref before Tommy Young.</p><p> </p><p> Gerald Finley was a Georgia mainstay and then later went to Florida and the crocketts.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> Steve Travis won WWWF Rookie of the year in 1978 and tagged with Rick McGraw as the "Carolina Connection"</p><p> </p><p> He also beat Austin Idol for the TV title in 1980-81 and was really over at the time. He would've had a huge run but a car wreck paralyzed him. </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> Just some guys I see missing. Besides that I absolutely love the season.</p></div></blockquote><p> Will add these guys Travis is the biggest oversight. Thank you for the feedback</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alvarasus Posted August 22, 2017 Author Share Posted August 22, 2017 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="smartman" data-cite="smartman" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="42445" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Book them like you would book RAW/SD!/Nitro. They were the main shows back in the day while TV was there to further storylines and sell tickets to those shows. You'll have to fudge a little with TV with a good main event since they're not B-shows like they were back then, but your payoff matches should be either house shows or a big monthly show if you have one (Georgia for one doesn't).<p> </p><p> Memphis/CWA for instance, ran Monday nights at the Memphis Mid-South Coliseum as their big show. Then, they went to the Louisville Gardens and ran last week's Mid-South show (at least the bigger matches as the undercard might vary) due to Louisville getting the TV show on a week delay as a 2nd big show. If you turned off the repeat booking penalty, you could do that if you wanted, but it might fry your brain. Then, the TV show would have maybe 1 good match with several (all storyline-based) angles that would carry the show. Up that 1 match, and you've pretty much got how they did things back then without a big monthly event.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Just tell people go to wrestlingdata or cage match look at results from the time period. An you don't have fudge results for good TV. World Class, JCP, Mid-South, Houston, Georgia, and Florida put on good matches on TV. AWA and WWF at this time are the only ones that really put on Star vs Jobber matches constantly for the whole card. Plus the WWF was putting out live house shows on USA network, Prism, and MSG at this time.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alvarasus Posted August 22, 2017 Author Share Posted August 22, 2017 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="smartman" data-cite="smartman" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="42445" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div><p> </p><p> The only issue I'm having so far is it has resurfaced my rage at the change in pop gains from TEW13 to 16. First Georgia house show, run a 90 (seriously, if you're not getting great shows from the start, you're not doing it right; super-high pop and super-talented workers + equal fed or even pop>perf and it is easy town) and get rewarded with $50k and a whopping 0.1 pop gain.<img alt=":mad:" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/mad.png.69834f23b9a8bf290d98375f56f1c794.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> .</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> If you run the shows the way it is setup you will grow. Georgia had to be actually truncated on Popularity because they grow unbelievably fast. Also the WWF grows fast as well. If you guys want challenges go book Sunbelt, ECWA, Detroit, San Francisco, WWA, ICW, Mid-America these promotions will give you challenges because the rosters are not good or because of lousy Booker's and owners. Playing with the big promotions is easy playing with the small ones are the hardest part because they will give you biggest headaches.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DatIsraeliGuy Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 <p>Okay so apparently all the big stars don't wanna sign written deals with me #UnRealistic #SummerOfPunkNow</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> Anyways will try to do a smaller company based on performance and since my parents weren't even together back then I have zero knowledge of the wrestlers and would love some recommendations</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 <p>Okay, so some tips:</p><p> </p><p> You might want to try being a bigger promotion then, I don't ever recall workers accepting written deals at Regional Level. NJPW should be able to sign all the talent on written that you can dream of.</p><p> </p><p> As for realism, written deals shouldn't even be possible in the 80s, it just wasn't done.</p><p> </p><p> And please - I know people are very excited about Summer of Punk, but different modders work on different things (and some of us helping, help on all of them). There is currently 1993 in development, as well as 1999. And this is all done in our own free time. If we had all the free time in the world, then we can get these done quicker. We don't. We would love nothing better for all of our planned mods to be done and finished. We just ask that you be patient, not insult another modder who's done incredible work putting this together. If you want to rant about Summer of Punk not being ready, come and post on Nexus, not here in random threads. Thanks.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DatIsraeliGuy Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="MrCreative" data-cite="MrCreative" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="42445" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Okay, so some tips:<p> </p><p> You might want to try being a bigger promotion then, I don't ever recall workers accepting written deals at Regional Level. NJPW should be able to sign all the talent on written that you can dream of.</p><p> </p><p> As for realism, written deals shouldn't even be possible in the 80s, it just wasn't done.</p><p> </p><p> And please - I know people are very excited about Summer of Punk, but different modders work on different things (and some of us helping, help on all of them). There is currently 1993 in development, as well as 1999. And this is all done in our own free time. If we had all the free time in the world, then we can get these done quicker. We don't. We would love nothing better for all of our planned mods to be done and finished. We just ask that you be patient, not insult another modder who's done incredible work putting this together. If you want to rant about Summer of Punk not being ready, come and post on Nexus, not here in random threads. Thanks.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Thanks for clarifying the written deals thing, I assumed it wasn't a thing but wasn't sure.</p><p> NJPW isn't really what I'm looking for since I'm way more interested in the US battles, but wasn't sure who to pick.</p><p> </p><p> as for the Summer Of Punk thing, I was just joking around. I know it's hard work and even enquired about helping out since I know I have more free time than most people due to summer holiday. I always reply to their tweets with a Summer Of Punk joke, no need to get angry.</p><p> Guess I'll stick to the 12 billion other saves I've never touched beyond the first show</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 <p>That's fine - I don't mind the odd joke and if you look on Nexus I did the same thing to the thread on Summer of Punk there... </p><p> </p><p> Just remember Alv isn't the main modder behind SoP and is looking for feedback on 1980, so it's a little unfair on him as it comes across as a bit dismissive of his work.</p><p> </p><p> Now, I'll go check on Genadi, I'm sure he's still chained to the computer where I left him modding away <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TsuMirren Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="alvarasus" data-cite="alvarasus" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="42445" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>community.wrestlingnexus.com should get you to the correct site</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Just remember that of there's anything in the 1980 Mod that you hate, it's probably Alv's work. I did all the cool well put together stuff. <img alt=":)" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/smile.png.142cfa0a1cd2925c0463c1d00f499df2.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TsuMirren Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="alvarasus" data-cite="alvarasus" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="42445" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Please Download the newest version of MsP picture pack. It has the correct pictures. They are only two workers not assigned pics Billy Stock and Pat O' Sullivan. Thank you keeping it coming. I should have a new release in next couple of weeks at the latest.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I'm still searching, can probably get you Stock's forehead when he's in a chin lock.Nothing for O'SullIvan as of yet.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TsuMirren Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="alvarasus" data-cite="alvarasus" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="42445" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Will add these guys Travis is the biggest oversight. Thank you for the feedback</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> To be fair, we did get over 3,000 <img alt=":)" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/smile.png.142cfa0a1cd2925c0463c1d00f499df2.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p> With regards rosters, I did try to get as many as worked the starting month for a promotion. I was always finding carpenters for whom you just could not find anything regarding birth date etc. So cagematch, wrestlingdata, that Canadian site, kayfabe memories, clawmaster archives, other searches and even obituaries. I don't like guessing ages, it's why Romany Riley is missing...yeah, who? I suppose with the guys who were opening match for 7 years, having 100+ matches you maybe could just guess.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TsuMirren Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="MrCreative" data-cite="MrCreative" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="42445" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>That's fine - I don't mind the odd joke and if you look on Nexus I did the same thing to the thread on Summer of Punk there... <p> </p><p> Just remember Alv isn't the main modder behind SoP and is looking for feedback on 1980, so it's a little unfair on him as it comes across as a bit dismissive of his work.</p><p> </p><p> Now, I'll go check on Genadi, I'm sure he's still chained to the computer where I left him modding away <img alt=":D" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I just had my own Summer of Punk upstairs there. Flushed it, wasn't really worth the effort.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hailthebulldog Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 Just to let you know I just realized that Dean Malenko is set to only work in Japan I don't know if that was intentional or not but I thought you should know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smartman Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="alvarasus" data-cite="alvarasus" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="42445" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Wondering when I hear from you. I will move CWF show to fix Gordon Solie issue. From my understanding Solie would do Georgia show then fly back to Tampa to do the Florida show on Saturday in real life. <p> </p><p> On developing younger workers if you work them every show they will develop very nicely. We have ran several tests and people progress pretty good. The game doesn't cap their psychology and selling based on what your claiming. </p><p> If you book the workers to face good talent they will grow Barry Windham for example will gain anywhere to 20 to 30 points in the first year in psychology alone. This mod has some the greatest masters of psychology to ever step in the ring. All you have to do is book the young talent against them.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Yeah, it is just that the game can't do that with an actual player in the game. The AI handles it just fine, I think, but unless that weird time-traveling bug from 13 shows up (where people could wrestle for multiple companies in a night), that's a good fix. Honestly, you get the trade off of getting to use the JCP guys instead of the WWF guys who are on loan so I might keep it on Tuesday anyway.</p><p> </p><p> As for the Basics/Psych/Selling thing, I'm just telling you what I've seen in TEW16 with regards to development. If there is no check in the game when you actually wrestle to get the performance row gains, then that's fine. However, it clearly affects development. I'm not even a full month after manually editing 8 workers whose psych and basics were identical, and they've jumped 2-3 points in psych whereas before they were gaining 1 solely because their basics were the same as their psych which meant their basics had to go up first. Having a 6 point buffer is just something I think every modder needs to use, at least for the name wrestlers.</p><p> </p><p> As for the pop gains, I don't know how we're supposed to magically fix that. The game is hard-coded with a 0.3-0.4 pop gain for TV or monthly show which can be dropped if you're running a non-trendy fed. The only time you get more is when the industry is booming (like at the start of the Golden Age mods). I am assuming you pre-set the industry and economy to start in the dump (34 for industry and who cares on the economy because it's going to be 0 once the narrative hits on day 2 or 4). Evidently, the house shows get you next to nothing in pop. 16 is just an uber-grinding game. Not your fault, just how it is.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alvarasus Posted August 22, 2017 Author Share Posted August 22, 2017 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="hailthebulldog" data-cite="hailthebulldog" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="42445" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Just to let you know I just realized that Dean Malenko is set to only work in Japan I don't know if that was intentional or not but I thought you should know</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Good catch.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alvarasus Posted August 22, 2017 Author Share Posted August 22, 2017 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="smartman" data-cite="smartman" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="42445" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Yeah, it is just that the game can't do that with an actual player in the game. The AI handles it just fine, I think, but unless that weird time-traveling bug from 13 shows up (where people could wrestle for multiple companies in a night), that's a good fix. Honestly, you get the trade off of getting to use the JCP guys instead of the WWF guys who are on loan so I might keep it on Tuesday anyway.<p> </p><p> As for the Basics/Psych/Selling thing, I'm just telling you what I've seen in TEW16 with regards to development. If there is no check in the game when you actually wrestle to get the performance row gains, then that's fine. However, it clearly affects development. I'm not even a full month after manually editing 8 workers whose psych and basics were identical, and they've jumped 2-3 points in psych whereas before they were gaining 1 solely because their basics were the same as their psych which meant their basics had to go up first. Having a 6 point buffer is just something I think every modder needs to use, at least for the name wrestlers.</p><p> </p><p> As for the pop gains, I don't know how we're supposed to magically fix that. The game is hard-coded with a 0.3-0.4 pop gain for TV or monthly show which can be dropped if you're running a non-trendy fed. The only time you get more is when the industry is booming (like at the start of the Golden Age mods). I am assuming you pre-set the industry and economy to start in the dump (34 for industry and who cares on the economy because it's going to be 0 once the narrative hits on day 2 or 4). Evidently, the house shows get you next to nothing in pop. 16 is just an uber-grinding game. Not your fault, just how it is.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Actually that narrative isn't working properly right now it seems. It is actually not effecting anything at the moment. If it was people be screaming their heads off at me.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RingRider Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Been looking forward to this mod for months and so far so good, alv. I've really been having a lot of fun playing around with this. After poking around with a few different companies just to have a look around, I have settled in rather nicely using Jim Barnett breaking away from the NWA to make his own promotion (WCW, after his Australian adventure) and forging my way toward being the first national company in the US. I set up shop in the Tri State, slapped the Figurehead tag on Dusty, put a show on WTBS and I'm off to the races. My only comment at the moment is the tag team experience. You have a lot of teams with experience that don't have history teaming and other teams that have a lack of experience that have been together for a long time. A couple that standout to me most obviously (as they are on my roster and right in front of me) would be anyone who is set to tag with rookie Jim Duggan (DiBiase (experience: 24) and Reed (experience 38), both of whom he won't meet until he goes to Mid South) and the Brisco Brothers and The Blackjacks who seem to be rather low in experience from what I would expect. (You have the Briscos (experience: 41) set as formed in 1967 and the Blackjacks (experience: 26) winning titles as early as '71). Also the Rock n' Roll Express start with 52 experience but don't form until '83 (also, if you wanted to consider it, they have no chemistry...which I would probably add). Otherwise...been a lot of fun so far and I look forward to keep on trucking along with it. Nice job and thanks for all the hard work you, TsuMirren, and the rest of the team put into it. You guys are meticulous and do your homework and it shows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hailthebulldog Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Tony Altimore is set with no gimmick at the start of the game with WWF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alvarasus Posted August 23, 2017 Author Share Posted August 23, 2017 Tony Altimore is set with no gimmick at the start of the game with WWF Thank you already found this mistake and has been fixed for the next release Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hailthebulldog Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 One thing on Andy Kaufman. Personally I would up his Popularity because of his role in Taxi and Saturday Night Live and personally I don't know how you would replicate Kaufman's wrestling only women but I don't know if he should be an Active Wrestler. But this is just opinions and I understand if you have it like you want it and don't want to change it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tardelli Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Even im not much into times before 1992, i have to say congratz on an awesome Beta. The amount of work you invested is amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hailthebulldog Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Another thing that I found is that Sika has no popularity at all in America and 25 in Central Europe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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