TEW2020 Discussion Thread

[DarK_RaideR]

<p>I'll admit the merchandise changes didn't feel that exciting at first since I prefer to focus on booking over finances, but then I saw things the other way round: </p><p> </p><p>

Towards the end, Adam's post talks about the big companies flexing their muscle as opposed to small ones being canny and wanting to simulate the WWE's revenue machine. As a player into smaller promotions, I'm seeing this the opposite way, a very AEW/BeingTheElite strategy of using the internet to reach a global niche audience to make revenue off stuff like ProWrestlingTees.</p><p> </p><p>

In TEW16, production value options give player the choice between producing DVDs (production costs for sales income, with distribution depending on promotion size), streaming shows online (production costs, no income but a very slow global pop gain) or no fimling (no costs but no income or pop gain). So far Internet streaming was mostly an option if you had a very TV unfriendly product (cult/risque/hardcore) and couldn't get a broadcasting deal, but now the global growth gain combined with mail-order merchandise can provide a really significant boost for smaller promotions.</p>

[HiPlus]

<p>I love this. To be honest I hate the current Merch system. I never look at it. Like ever, nd the custom settings is so overwhelming and time intensive. </p><p> </p><p>

I would love to see the option to see biggest merchandise movers. Something like momentum, overness and maybe just a different value. Like The New Day are not the most over, nor the best momentum. But they are a top merch mover. </p><p> </p><p>

So it would be cool to have something to take that into account, and be able to view who are your best merch sellers at a glance.</p>

[Peter.1986]

<p>The merch side needed changin, be interesting to see how this changes things. </p><p> </p><p>

Unfortunately playing real world mods I don’t think either the mod makers get the finances right, or the game previously didn’t simulate real life/historical finances very well. </p><p> </p><p>

It will be interesting to see if contracts are tied in with this. The top working demanding a % of merch sales in their contract. Could be a big deal. Legends contracts or something similar,</p>

[justtxyank]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Peter.1986" data-cite="Peter.1986" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>The merch side needed changin, be interesting to see how this changes things. <p> </p><p> Unfortunately playing real world mods I don’t think either the mod makers get the finances right, or the game previously didn’t simulate real life/historical finances very well. </p><p> </p><p> It will be interesting to see if contracts are tied in with this. The top working demanding a % of merch sales in their contract. Could be a big deal. Legends contracts or something similar,</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> The game doesn't simulate historical finances. Adam has said before the game is not a historical simulator. It would be literally impossible for a mod maker to create a mod that has historically accurate finances.</p>

[WCGreyghost]

I like the changes to the merchandising side of things. Wish there was a way to break it down by worker....even just as a report that we could not alter.

[Peter.1986]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="justtxyank" data-cite="justtxyank" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>The game doesn't simulate historical finances. Adam has said before the game is not a historical simulator. It would be literally impossible for a mod maker to create a mod that has historically accurate finances.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Yeah I know that, especially when there’s is no inflation. It wasn’t a dig to mod makers, but I remember a discussion where people were saying many mods were easy and Adam said something along the a long the lines of majority of mods being overpowered, from worker stats right down to PPV company sizes.</p><p> </p><p> It would be good if the finances were changed to give mod makers the opportunity to give a better reflection. Especially with the Era settings.</p>

[Chaos Zarak]

<p>The latest announced features are getting me more excited for the new game even if it is still a long way off.</p><p> </p><p>

The changes to house shows and merchandise is especially nice to see as they have been features in previous games I have not particularly played with. House shows I use occasional to find new tag teams but not for much else... And merchandise I always just leave at the default setting and enjoy any money it brings in... Knowing that both features now require more attention in order for it to be profitable will make me pay attention to it...</p><p> </p><p>

Talking to workers sounds really good and definitely will be something I use often, the chance to encourage some international talent to work shows in areas they normally wouldn't work is definitely something I love, and the chance to get talented workers who are backstage cancer to change there ways is always a plus... Can't wait to see other aspects of the game it will effect...</p>

[Rawisericho]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="justtxyank" data-cite="justtxyank" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>The game doesn't simulate historical finances. Adam has said before the game is not a historical simulator. It would be literally impossible for a mod maker to create a mod that has historically accurate finances.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I mean, yeah he has. But that doesn't change the fact that a lot of this community loves playing historical mods. </p><p> </p><p> And in fairness to Adam, he has made strides, both in 2016 and in 2020 to make it easier for historical mods. The new schedule options are a step in the right direction for simulating different eras. I would imagine by including an algorithm to simulate inflation that you could possibly recreate historical scenarios.</p><p> </p><p> And the finances aren't just a mess historically, they're messed up in modern day. I think the max contract you can offer is like 1.3 million dollars a year, which is ridiculous. Dean Ambrose was just offered a 1 million DOWNSIDE contract and when you factor in Steve Austin making 16-17 million in the 1990s, the financial aspect of the game is due for an overhaul. </p><p> </p><p> It seems like Adam will add it based on the house show and merchandise revamps, and I think that's great.</p>

[tyrone]

Has there been any mention of having individual sponsors in the game for companies and show/events? Coke, Pepsi, Apple, etc...

[Self]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Rawisericho" data-cite="Rawisericho" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I mean, yeah he has. But that doesn't change the fact that a lot of this community loves playing historical mods. <p> </p><p> And in fairness to Adam, he has made strides, both in 2016 and in 2020 to make it easier for historical mods. The new schedule options are a step in the right direction for simulating different eras. I would imagine by including an algorithm to simulate inflation that you could possibly recreate historical scenarios.</p><p> </p><p> And the finances aren't just a mess historically, they're messed up in modern day. I think the max contract you can offer is like 1.3 million dollars a year, which is ridiculous. Dean Ambrose was just offered a 1 million DOWNSIDE contract and when you factor in Steve Austin making 16-17 million in the 1990s, the financial aspect of the game is due for an overhaul. </p><p> </p><p> It seems like Adam will add it based on the house show and merchandise revamps, and I think that's great.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> And at the lower end you're paying hundreds of dollars for even the most talentless worker. When in reality you can get wrestlers on a show for a couple of hotdogs.</p><p> </p><p> As much as I want realism in my games, I can see the monumental task at creating a balanced game that satisfies both ends of the spectrum.</p>

[Peter.1986]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Self" data-cite="Self" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>And at the lower end you're paying hundreds of dollars for even the most talentless worker. When in reality you can get wrestlers on a show for a couple of hotdogs.<p> </p><p> As much as I want realism in my games, I can see the monumental task at creating a balanced game that satisfies both ends of the spectrum.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Surely we all want as much of a realistic, balanced game as possible.</p><p> </p><p> For those who don’t they can just use the editor</p>

[Sudo_Nym]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Self" data-cite="Self" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>And at the lower end you're paying hundreds of dollars for even the most talentless worker. When in reality you can get wrestlers on a show for a couple of hotdogs.<p> </p><p> As much as I want realism in my games, I can see the monumental task at creating a balanced game that satisfies both ends of the spectrum.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> The reality of the situation is that trying to simulate real world finances is basically impossible. At a certain point, you have to build a game that's fun to play, not a financial bookkeeping simulator. Frankly, a lot of the suggestions people are making to "enhance realism" sound more like "incredibly tedious". There's a reason pre-booking matches to build heat got taken out.</p>

[d12345]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>And the finances aren't just a mess historically, they're messed up in modern day. I think the max contract you can offer is like 1.3 million dollars a year, which is ridiculous. Dean Ambrose was just offered a 1 million DOWNSIDE contract and when you factor in Steve Austin making 16-17 million in the 1990s, the financial aspect of the game is due for an overhaul. </div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I just want to point out the option for bonuses in the contracts. I don't know where you get 1.3 million from but I got the max TEW contract to be 1.5million per year. 125,000*12 months.</p><p> </p><p> You can then add 100% per show bonus if you want. I don't know the math on that but wouldn't that get you to somewhere in the 3 million dollar range if the worker is used weekly. </p><p> </p><p> I don't know if house shows count to the All Show bonus (I think it should), but that's close to most high end WWE contracts if so.</p><p> </p><p> I agree that the max could be raised though...</p>

[Peter.1986]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Sudo_Nym" data-cite="Sudo_Nym" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>The reality of the situation is that trying to simulate real world finances is basically impossible. At a certain point, you have to build a game that's fun to play, not a financial bookkeeping simulator. Frankly, a lot of the suggestions people are making to "enhance realism" sound more like "incredibly tedious". There's a reason pre-booking matches to build heat got taken out.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Finances and pre booking matches is completely different </p><p> </p><p> Finances are the biggest part of many games, especially ones based on real life. </p><p> </p><p> The only people that don’t want realistic finances are those that want an unrealistic environment, no injuries, no time decline, no bad relationships etc. </p><p> </p><p> Finances in real life is what made Monday night Wars, it’s what keeps wwe the top company, it’s what makes wwe change their product, it’s what made rock, Austin and many others stars. </p><p> </p><p> Pre booking for heat was actually something that was changed as it could be done without the user having to do it.</p>

[Peter.1986]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="d12345" data-cite="d12345" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I just want to point out the option for bonuses in the contracts. I don't know where you get 1.3 million from but I got the max TEW contract to be 1.5million per year. 125,000*12 months.<p> </p><p> You can then add 100% per show bonus if you want. I don't know the math on that but wouldn't that get you to somewhere in the 3 million dollar range if the worker is used weekly. </p><p> </p><p> I don't know if house shows count to the All Show bonus (I think it should), but that's close to most high end WWE contracts if so.</p><p> </p><p> I agree that the max could be raised though...</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I think half of the problem at the moment is none of those are needed. What is the biggest contract anyone has ever HAD to offer someone to get them on/stay the roster. Even in a bidding war a lot of those things don’t need to come into play</p>

[Sudo_Nym]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Peter.1986" data-cite="Peter.1986" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Finances and pre booking matches is completely different <p> </p><p> Finances are the biggest part of many games, especially ones based on real life. </p><p> </p><p> The only people that don’t want realistic finances are those that want an unrealistic environment, no injuries, no time decline, no bad relationships etc. </p><p> </p><p> Finances in real life is what made Monday night Wars, it’s what keeps wwe the top company, it’s what makes wwe change their product, it’s what made rock, Austin and many others stars. </p><p> </p><p> Pre booking for heat was actually something that was changed as it could be done without the user having to do it.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Right, but you aren't booking the Monday Night Wars, you're playing a video game. At some point, the mechanics of the video game that make it fun to play have to take priority over matching every last detail to real life.</p><p> </p><p> If you're talking about rebalancing finances to make things more fun, that's one thing. Rebalancing finances so that it becomes an exercise in accountancy isn't fun.</p>

[Peter.1986]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Sudo_Nym" data-cite="Sudo_Nym" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Right, but you aren't booking the Monday Night Wars, you're playing a video game. At some point, the mechanics of the video game that make it fun to play have to take priority over matching every last deta<p> </p><p> If you're talking about rebalancing finances to make things more fun, that's one thing. Rebalancing finances so that it becomes an exercise in accountancy isn't fun.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Making things more realistic makes it more fun. You are booking the Monday night Wars if you play that mod. Even if you wernt, it’s real life which shows how much finances affect wrestling </p><p> </p><p> Why is there no longer the days of the territories? Because of money</p><p> Why did the WWF get so big because of hulkamania? Because of the money it brought</p><p> Why was wrestlemania created? Because of money</p><p> Why did companies not run four tv shows a week and a ppv montly in the early 90’s? Because of money</p><p> How did the WCW manage to maintain a challenge and eventually be the top company? Because of money.</p><p> Why did the WWF end up winning the war? Because of money</p><p> Why did the WWE stay the biggest company since then? Because of money</p><p> Why did wwe go pc? Because of money</p><p> </p><p> The whole period I covered the major contributing factor is money.</p><p> </p><p> If money wasn’t a factor in the 90’s you wouldn’t have NWO, you wouldn’t have the screwjob, you wouldn’t have stone cold and so on</p><p> </p><p> If I wanted an unrealistic challenge of booking WWE, I would just go on microsoft word, sign every wrestler in the world and write down who fights who, who wins and grade it myself.</p><p> </p><p> Maybe we have different idea on how finances would work and your thinking about how the custom merchandise works and thinking that’s how realistic finances would work. But in reality, your booking the shows, not getting a job in the accounts section, the game would simulate those parts itself</p>

[Sudo_Nym]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Peter.1986" data-cite="Peter.1986" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Making things more realistic makes it more fun. You are booking the Monday night Wars if you play that mod. Even if you wernt, it’s real life which shows how much finances affect wrestling <p> </p><p> Why is there no longer the days of the territories? Because of money</p><p> Why did the WWF get so big because of hulkamania? Because of the money it brought</p><p> Why was wrestlemania created? Because of money</p><p> Why did companies not run four tv shows a week and a ppv montly in the early 90’s? Because of money</p><p> How did the WCW manage to maintain a challenge and eventually be the top company? Because of money.</p><p> Why did the WWF end up winning the war? Because of money</p><p> Why did the WWE stay the biggest company since then? Because of money</p><p> Why did wwe go pc? Because of money</p><p> </p><p> The whole period I covered the major contributing factor is money.</p><p> </p><p> If money wasn’t a factor in the 90’s you wouldn’t have NWO, you wouldn’t have the screwjob, you wouldn’t have stone cold and so on</p><p> </p><p> If I wanted an unrealistic challenge of booking WWE, I would just go on microsoft word, sign every wrestler in the world and write down who fights who, who wins and grade it myself.</p><p> </p><p> Maybe we have different idea on how finances would work and your thinking about how the custom merchandise works and thinking that’s how realistic finances would work. But in reality, your booking the shows, not getting a job in the accounts section, the game would simulate those parts itself</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Look, I can agree that some sort of rebalance could be good. As it stands, it's really easy to bully talent out of the AI, as long as you're a big enough company that they don't automatically turn down your offers in favor of the bigger company. Having it set up so that you can get the shocking walkouts and debuts that made the Monday Night Wars era fun could be really nice. But introducing increased granularity isn't the way to do it, because it'll be fun for 15 minutes and then be tedious forever after.</p><p> </p><p> I'm not a game designer, and I don't pretend to have a perfect solution on how to compromise between "making finances realistic" and "making finances fun" and "making finances balanced" but every suggestion I've heard so far seems to boarder on double-entry bookkeeping, and I'd like gameplay to stay as far away from spreadsheet territory as feasible.</p>

[Peter.1986]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Sudo_Nym" data-cite="Sudo_Nym" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Look, I can agree that some sort of rebalance could be good. As it stands, it's really easy to bully talent out of the AI, as long as you're a big enough company that they don't automatically turn down your offers in favor of the bigger company. Having it set up so that you can get the shocking walkouts and debuts that made the Monday Night Wars era fun could be really nice. But introducing increased granularity isn't the way to do it, because it'll be fun for 15 minutes and then be tedious forever after.<p> </p><p> I'm not a game designer, and I don't pretend to have a perfect solution on how to compromise between "making finances realistic" and "making finances fun" and "making finances balanced" but every suggestion I've heard so far seems to boarder on double-entry bookkeeping, and I'd like gameplay to stay as far away from spreadsheet territory as feasible.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I suppose that’s the difference then. When I think of finances becoming much more realistic, I think of it in a way that Adam will implement it without it having too much micromanagement.</p><p> </p><p> I mean teke say football manager for example, you are given budgets. The game itself has the ‘accountants’ forecast your spend for the year and thenchairman decides on the budget. None of this takes any of your time up. All you have to do then is stay within the budget. It even tells you how much of your budget you have left.</p><p> </p><p> As an owner in TEW if the same sort of finances were in place, you may have to deal with sponsors, choose many more budget related things. But in reality most companies have departments that deal with that.</p><p> </p><p> So even if the finances became tedious for some people as owner, they shouldn’t be as booker.</p><p> </p><p> Or there could be the option to let each department deal with it themselves.</p><p> </p><p> A bit like the merchandise.</p><p> </p><p> I’m not sure what you’ve read so I can’t agree/disagree with those things. </p><p> </p><p> As I say though. For me, the finances play a massive part of the game and the way they are currently, just makes the game lose that little bit of realism</p>

[Koholos]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Peter.1986" data-cite="Peter.1986" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Making things more realistic makes it more fun. You are booking the Monday night Wars if you play that mod. Even if you wernt, it’s real life which shows how much finances affect wrestling <p> </p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I hate and have always hated this argument, and it’s how we wind up with things like hunger meters in Survival games.</p><p> Versimilitude (or realism if you prefer) increases opportunities for depth of play. And depth of play CAN be more interesting if it either parallels the rest of the game’s premise or expands a player’s opportunity for immersion.</p><p> </p><p> Howver, realism sine qua non is not inherently fun, especially in situations where it goes at an angle to the game’s primary challenge, and it frequently increases tedium and frustration.</p><p> </p><p> I don’t think you’re wrong about your conclusion that finances are the key to most of wrestling’s history, but I think you’re starting from a failed premise - it doesn’t need to be “more realistic”, it simply needs to lead to more strategic opportunities or challenges. THAT is something that probably can be done without correspondingly increasing the tedium. Perhaps by increasing money sinks, or by adding taxes based on roster size. (Not to armchair design, there’s a lot of ways I’m probably not thinking of).</p>

[Peter.1986]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Koholos" data-cite="Koholos" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I hate and have always hated this argument, and it’s how we wind up with things like hunger meters in Survival games.<p> Versimilitude (or realism if you prefer) increases opportunities for depth of play. And depth of play CAN be more interesting if it either parallels the rest of the game’s premise or expands a player’s opportunity for immersion.</p><p> </p><p> Howver, realism sine qua non is not inherently fun, especially in situations where it goes at an angle to the game’s primary challenge, and it frequently increases tedium and frustration.</p><p> </p><p> I don’t think you’re wrong about your conclusion that finances are the key to most of wrestling’s history, but I think you’re starting from a failed premise - it doesn’t need to be “more realistic”, it simply needs to lead to more strategic opportunities or challenges. THAT is something that probably can be done without correspondingly increasing the tedium. Perhaps by increasing money sinks, or by adding taxes based on roster size. (Not to armchair design, there’s a lot of ways I’m probably not thinking of).</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Although you disagree, your post is pretty much agreeing with the way I’d like to see it implemented </p><p> </p><p> - finances to be more realistic and more variables</p><p> - not actually Micro managing, but for the ‘hidden staff’ to take care of it in their ‘hidden department’</p><p> - although the option could be there for people to have more control if they would want.</p><p> </p><p> But what I’m saying is if you chose to leave as much to the AI as possible, the users management of finances would be pretty much contracts and show costs/income </p><p> </p><p> I’d just like to see contracts be done in a more realistic way and shows/PPVs. There needs to be a drawback to signing a major star on top money when you’re a massive company if then shows aren’t top notch, also running too many PPVs shouldn’t always be profitable unless you have the finances and the audience. That still shouldn’t mean you can always run them without fear of bad shows costing you.</p>

[SirMichaelJordan]

I agree, the money area of this game needs some sort of update or revamp.

[UEWpro]

I'm in favor of more financial responsibility in this game. Right now it's too structured and not realistic. I want to be able to run my company not just do storylines.

[DarK_RaideR]

Struggled a lot with setting ticket prices in those old TEW versions, so glad to see this new "change" introduces strategies (kinda like TEW16 has for merchandise production) instead of having us freely arrange prices. Just to be sure, do the "lower price-greater attendance" options also mean a slightly bigger popularity gain? Because it would be awesome to use that as a strategy for rapid growth if a company can take the financial losses.

[Historian]

<p>I'm very interested in the continued financial overhauls of TEW2020. It seems like a lot of work is being done by Adam and company to give a more robust, fluid, and variable game from a financial aspect. I can already see the benefit of running 'free' weekly TV tapings (ala OVW) complimented by shows that cost money as a hopes to draw them in the door, but I also can see the intrigue of having a show that's supposed to be a major show set with premium pricing.</p><p> </p><p>

The thing that most intrigues me about this post was the mention, multiple times, of 'how attractive the show is'. This really makes me wonder how a show's attractiveness is going to be determined and if this is a new feature in TEW2020 that plays off of prebooking or announcing matches in advance as a way to drive up the look/feel of the show.</p>