The All Elite Wrestling Discussion Thread

[alpha2117]

By the way guys I am absolutely fine with people disagreeing with me about any of my opinions.  I might argue the point on factual stuff like ratings but when it comes to stuff like @Matt_Black liking the Bucks current run thats simply a matter of personal taste and everyone's personal tastes are different.   I totally respect your opinions guys.  My rant about WrestleDream was probably a bit over the top and written in the moment when I finished watching it but reflected my frustration with the way everything had been booked in a way that felt to me counter productive.  

[Dalton]

I thought AEW ratings discourse would die after they signed a massive TV deal, but apparently not.

[alpha2117]

18 minutes ago, Dalton said:

I thought AEW ratings discourse would die after they signed a massive TV deal, but apparently not.

Deals are great ... getting a 329000 this week wasn't and the decline in ratings has been steady - the WWE is declining too so it's not all AEW's fault as in TEW terms wrestling would be in decline.  I would be interested to see if AEW's deal has out clauses (it will of course just depends on what they are) because WB/Dicovery has a history of being fractured internally and of execs killing other execs pet projects recent examples would be - Batgirl, the ACME film, DCEU etc - one thing history has taught me is not to trust WB/Discovery execs because of their internal politics.  The deal was reportedly around 150M a year which actually isn't much for 4hrs of programming a week - it's less than 1M an hour so they actually dont need to be mega popular for it to be seen as worth keeping them on the WB channels so I think they will be okay but they probably do need to address the decline especially for Collision which has been declining at roughly 30% a Qtr for a while now.    

[MightyDavidson]

3 hours ago, alpha2117 said:

Sort of agree ... honestly I would have preferred Yuta to any of the others but any of them other than Mox would have worked better for me ... had Mox gone all cult leader and given up is shot to one of the others especially Yuta that would have been interesting.  Mox isn't a terrible choice but the current gimmick doesn't work well for me but if they evolved it into something different it might.  I get putting the belt on one of their most popular acts though given recent ratings issues.    

I just think AEW needs to do something new and push new people.  Mox at the top of the card is all well and good but AEW needs to shake things up a bit.  You've got Okada, you've got Osprey, you've got Swerve, you've got Takeshita.  All of them super talented guys who are more then capable of carrying the torch for AEW.  

[alpha2117]

19 minutes ago, MightyDavidson said:

I just think AEW needs to do something new and push new people.  Mox at the top of the card is all well and good but AEW needs to shake things up a bit.  You've got Okada, you've got Osprey, you've got Swerve, you've got Takeshita.  All of them super talented guys who are more then capable of carrying the torch for AEW.  

Oh yeah they aren't short of options.  I think the ship has sailed on Swerve right now ... he had a shot and whilst I think it was his booking and the fact they are trying to make a more natural heel a face I think he needs to return to his edgier heel persona before he gets another run.  To me I think the person to knock Mox off should be someone fresh ... I would have gone for Yuta had they not turned him but now I'm not as sure - Fletcher just went full heel again which rules him out for a while too.  Kota indicated Kenny is 2 or 3 months away and one of them is probably the best option to be honest which would give Mox at least 3 to 6 months with the belt.  If you went with Okada, or Osprey it's probably a similar time period to get them positioned to the same point.  I'd probably start maneuvering all of them towards that and just run with whomever feels right at the time.    

[ColdBloodedSausageMaker]

1 hour ago, MightyDavidson said:

I just think AEW needs to do something new and push new people.  Mox at the top of the card is all well and good but AEW needs to shake things up a bit.  You've got Okada, you've got Osprey, you've got Swerve, you've got Takeshita.  All of them super talented guys who are more then capable of carrying the torch for AEW.  

I love all four of those guys, but right now, 3 of them are coming off a loss, and the other is a midcard champion. They need to build some momentum first.

Hook absolutely should be the next man up at this point. He's has the most wins and probably the most potential on the roster. He's green, but that isn't a huge deal -- Goldberg and Jade drew and they were just as inexperienced as Hook.  Plenty of those guys on the roster can lead Hook to a great match -- guys like Cole, Danielson, Osprey and Swerve can make Hook look like a world-beater out there as champ.

I have to think Hook retired the FTW Belt to chase the World Title. With AEW back in the tri-state area for Full Gear, could Hook get the title match then?

I hope Danielson isn't done. I don't think Bryan putting over an established guy like Moxley really is the right last match. Maybe Bryan will come back for one more match because he never tapped out? 

Edited Monday at 03:53 AM by ColdBloodedSausageMaker

[The Otter]

I actually followed this page thinking I’d find like minded individuals, but probably will not continue to post in here.

sometimes I think we need to get out of our own way, and enjoy things, instead of thinking it’s cool to just critique things, if you don’t enjoy something, don’t watch it, if you watch because you enjoy, talk about what you enjoy guys. 

I felt, and still feel like this was a great PPV, Jack v Shibata was a classic Shibata match in AEW, the fact I get to see more of him is amazing.

Hologram and Mortos have been killing it recently and deserved this chance to kill it on PPV and delivered.

Will, Ricochet and Takeshita was a disgustingly brilliant match, the things all 3 of them can do is amazing. Fletch turning on Will makes perfect sense, he’s had Don in his ear and didn’t win the tag titles because Will was more worried about his own Honor.

Danielson constantly sacrifices himself for the greater good, they foreshadowed the story with Wheeler in their tag match, Mox taking the title as the monster heel makes the most sense to set up Darby eventually winning it.

Adam Page is probably in the top 5 in the world right now overall, and top 3 storytellers of our time, he rarely misses and Jay White is might finally be getting that push.

Darby v Brody is a story that has gone on for a long time, and a brilliant win to move forwards to a Main Event push

[Wrestling Machine]

8 hours ago, Dalton said:

I thought AEW ratings discourse would die after they signed a massive TV deal, but apparently not.

One can look at their ratings with “statistical” eyes and see big issues despite AEW signed an impressive TV deal overall, no? I don't see two things cancelling each other out

 

Really happy for Takeshita, I will have to see this three-way! Although Ospreay and Ricochet aren't my bread and butter.

 

On Moxley, imo it's one of the biggest collective hallucinations I've ever seen in this business. I think he's really really bad but his bad ass look attracts many sympathies. 

[alpha2117]

1 hour ago, The Otter said:

I actually followed this page thinking I’d find like minded individuals, but probably will not continue to post in here.

sometimes I think we need to get out of our own way, and enjoy things, instead of thinking it’s cool to just critique things, if you don’t enjoy something, don’t watch it, if you watch because you enjoy, talk about what you enjoy guys. 

I felt, and still feel like this was a great PPV, Jack v Shibata was a classic Shibata match in AEW, the fact I get to see more of him is amazing.

Hologram and Mortos have been killing it recently and deserved this chance to kill it on PPV and delivered.

Will, Ricochet and Takeshita was a disgustingly brilliant match, the things all 3 of them can do is amazing. Fletch turning on Will makes perfect sense, he’s had Don in his ear and didn’t win the tag titles because Will was more worried about his own Honor.

Danielson constantly sacrifices himself for the greater good, they foreshadowed the story with Wheeler in their tag match, Mox taking the title as the monster heel makes the most sense to set up Darby eventually winning it.

Adam Page is probably in the top 5 in the world right now overall, and top 3 storytellers of our time, he rarely misses and Jay White is might finally be getting that push.

Darby v Brody is a story that has gone on for a long time, and a brilliant win to move forwards to a Main Event push

I wouldn't stress what others say - everyone has their own opinions.  It's interesting to see what others think but it never invalidates your own opinions on objective things like match quality.  My issues for instance are not with the match quality at all - it's the booking and angles that are the framework for said matches, I'm totally fine with you disagreeing about that stuff too.

[Mootinie]

For me, it was a good PPV which could have been a great PPV had most of the matches been given longer than two weeks build. 

I think they need to re-analyse the entire calendar from August through October. All In, All Out, Dynamite Grand Slam, Anniversary Dynamite, Tuesday Dynamite and WrestleDream seems like a far too truncated schedule to keep on maintaining.

[alpha2117]

1 minute ago, Mootinie said:

For me, it was a good PPV which could have been a great PPV had most of the matches been given longer than two weeks build. 

I think they need to re-analyse the entire calendar from August through October. All In, All Out, Dynamite Grand Slam, Anniversary Dynamite, Tuesday Dynamite and WrestleDream seems like a far too truncated schedule to keep on maintaining.

For sure on the whole timing thing - White/Page, Mariah/Willow, Yuta's turn, King/Allin and numerous other elements could have sung if they had been given a little space and time to develop.  I picked up Wheeler asking for help and Danielson being too caught up with his Yes stuff to actually check on him at the end of Dynamite and figured it would lead to Yuta turning on Bryan eventually but it was given less than a week to stew and develop - that in ring detail on Dynamite was great ... genuinely subtle and well executed by both of them but the payoff was rushed.  As always the matches are good, ofttimes great but the structure around them isn't what it should be.  AEW's major issue is the booking and storytelling is way behind the quality of the ring work.  Hopefully one day the more subtle nuances of how to get that stuff right will come ... the tools to do it are there.  They have struggled to make true home grown stars because the booking often undercuts their progress. Guys like HOOK, Allin, Garcia etc can get there, had they handled Wheelers turn more carefully and slowly I think he would of been there with a turn on Danielson after a longer build. 

Their base is really strong they just have to get together as a booking team and make a proper year-long style sort of plan and build towards a proper pay off for various stories and also learn when you need to change (that Devil storyline needed to be changed before the ending but they just kept going when it wasn't working).  Storm v May proved they can do it if they put their mind to it.  They took May from basically nothing in the US to a credible and significant player. 

[Jaysin]

I watched WrestleDream and felt like so much was thrown at me that nothing really stuck out. Other than the plastic bag spot, I don't really remember much. The plastic bag stuff is not for me. It's not the kind of content I seek out when I watch pro wrestling.

[Matt_Black]

So, 5 people run roughshod over 9 other wrestlers? It's like the nWo with mostly boring people.

 

Regarding who should topple Mox? Well, while I'm not thrilled about another Mox title reign, in this case it should go on through at least May. Mox is in the ring saying he'll never lose the championship, because there is no one in the locker room ready to destroy the people they love the way he is, and there is no one ready to bring that level of violence.

 

... And then, the music hits.

[Jaysin]

So Dynamite starts the show with Moxley talking about how the roster isn't hungry and they're complacent and then the very next segment, Adam Cole cuts a horrible promo about the great locker room, how they're hardworking and hungry, and how he hates MJF because of he has a stupid face and fake hair? Who let those segments be next to each other? 

Are they really ignoring the entire Devil fiasco? They act like the last time we saw Adam Cole was when he broke his ankle and no mention of Devil. 

Mercedes continues to be a complete bore and the CEO nickname/gimmick is so annoying when you have legitimate EVPs on the program. The piped in CEO chants are pretty bad too. 

I'm being overly negative, so some positives:

Queen Aminata looked good in defeat. Shame she never gets any real attention anglewise. 

Shelty B being on my screen is always good news. 

Jack Perry saying he doesn't care if Kenny Omega dies actually made me chuckle pretty good. 

[MightyDavidson]

So Jericho's getting another shot at the ROH title, despite not deserving the title shot that he got last time.  I really hope the plan isn't to put the ROH title back on Jericho.

[alpha2117]

Dynamite was a mixed bag ... 

The Good - that Mox stuff at the beginning felt organic from WrestleDream. Shelton/Lio was good ... MVP offering the card to Lio was a nice touch and I can see Lio and Leila working in the mix with Lashley, Benjamin & MVP.  Okada's facial reactions to BCC's attack were great ... he may well be leaving the Elite soon because several angles indicated he isn't naturally on the same page as the Gaijin.  The Womens match was fun.  In general in ring was as always decent to good.  

The Bad - So much of the rest of it was a bit disjointed and felt less than it could be but not inherently awful ... just not executed that well.  Allin at Tony Hawk's sans Tony Hawk ... why bother.  The BCC endless attack ... c'mon people they are outnumbered and should have bugged out but instead were booked as superhumans all of a sudden.  The post match stuff with FTR and the Outrunners felt cheesy. The Family stuff didn't really work, the overbooked Main Event stuff didn't really work, MJF/Cole stuff sure didn't work.   

So many of these things probably could have worked so I get why they tried them - sometimes things just dont work when you execute them.  Maybe Hawk had a last minute reason he wasn't there. Perhaps they thought sacrificing a bunch of lower card guys to the BCC would make them feel strong.  They think the Family is nefarious rather than coming off as increasingly annoying.  The Main Event ... who knows ... Page v White has potential as a feud but the booking just felt unnecessarily convoluted here. Why isn't the BCC attacking Cage by the way ... surely that contract is a threat. As for Cole/MJF for some inexplicable reason they seem to think we forget what happened last year and their mutual rushed separate turns mean we will now sympathise with Cole ... it's trying to correct the mistakes of the end of last year but it just feels clumsily done, I am sure in a month though it will be fine - it just makes it harder for them now.

It was ok.  I think they tried some stuff and some things worked and some definitely didn't but none of it was truly awful in concept.  

[Matt_Black]

I mean, a more talented, charismatic talent could have saved the opening promo. Unfortunately, we were stuck with Adam Cole.

The real person to blame, though? Will Ospreay. He was touted as this big huge signing that would take AEW to the next level, except that's not happening and the ratings  were garbage, so they turned MJF heel again too soon to try and get eyes on Will.