Public Beta Reaction Thread

[RingRider]

One warning to knock off the personal attacks or this thread gets locked and I hand out bans. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. Move on...

[Donners]

Concept art that does not take into account the limits of the programming language used for the TEW games.The programming language does not allow for scrolling with the colored lists turned on or transparent png files.

 

I assume it does however allow for a neat summary of the skills (hell, that was a feature back in 2010) or categorisation of the skills, both of which would make the screen a lot more informative and accessible.

 

You do raise the elephant in the room, though. After 20 years and six iterations of this commercial release, it's still in a programming language which does not allow a lot of things.

 

It does not allow the game to be run at full screen, or resizing of the window, or anything approaching a modern resolution.

 

It does not allow the game to be run without being in admin mode.

 

It does not allow a combination of coloured lists and scrolling.

 

It does not allow the utilisation of most of the power of modern CPUs.

 

It does not allow basic things which would greatly improve the user experience.

 

There comes a point where the viability of that programming language for future development must be questioned.

 

Newcomers just bounce straight off the game when they see some of those things, and even some long-time players are getting frustrated.

 

Premiership Coach 2011 was made by one programmer and one artist a decade ago. It's an Australian football management game - an even smaller niche than a wrestling booking sim, since the audience is limited to a portion of one small country.

 

I just recorded myself going through a few screens - https://streamable.com/1fxklt

 

Plenty of data to share (and that's just a fraction of it), but compare the presentation. The limitations of TEW are stark in comparison.

[MrJeeps]

Does unzipping the patches into my old files in any way change my picture folder? I've been working for hours rerendering my workers and don't want that work undone.

[Big Roguey]

One warning to knock off the personal attacks or this thread gets locked and I hand out bans. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. Move on...

 

Following on form this and the subsequent locking of the thread for the time being, I'd like to remind everyone of the forum rules which can be found here.

 

Understandably there has been frustrations and disappointments but the posts in this thread were turning from valid points to posts sniping at each other. We're not saying that you can't have an opinion good or bad but when it turns from expressing that opinion to then sniping in posts about another user's opinion then it's time to shut up shop for a bit.

[Big Roguey]

I've reopened this and deleted the majority of the posts that I can see that caused the shutdown in the first place. Reminder tk everyone posting in here - keep it civil. We're not saying that you can't post legitimate complaints you have with game in any way, shape or form, the game would never be improved if there was an echo chamber of praise however if you see someone post an opinion that differs from yours, either be constructive with the response or walk away.

[combolock]

. We're not saying that you can't post legitimate complaints you have with game in any way, shape or form, the game would never be improved if there was an echo chamber of praise.

 

Not to start something, but that seems like what the testers were doing for the last couple of months, because obviously they weren't telling Adam the important stuff that the community has since the release a couple of days ago.

[Big Roguey]

Not to start something, but that seems like what the testers were doing for the last couple of months, because obviously they weren't telling Adam the important stuff that the community has since the release a couple of days ago.

 

It is important to remember that the testing team is smaller in numbers than what the general release gets. I can't speak for anyone on the team this year as I wasn't in the testing team but there is a very high chance that everyone in team did enjoy the UI - not to say that the feedback that has since been provided with the beta isn't important. It is the nature of having a small scale testing team. Adam's posted that the feedback is being taken on board however which can only be a good thing.

[Bull]

Not to start something, but that seems like what the testers were doing for the last couple of months, because obviously they weren't telling Adam the important stuff that the community has since the release a couple of days ago.

 

It's also very possible that they genuinely enjoyed the layout and the game as a whole. . as hard as it may be to find through all the complaints about it, there are a few people on here who only have minor complaints, and even some who outright enjoy it with no complaints..

[Lex Star]

Not to start something, but that seems like what the testers were doing for the last couple of months, because obviously they weren't telling Adam the important stuff that the community has since the release a couple of days ago.

 

They may have genuinely had a different opinion than everyone else. Do I think TEW 2020 is perfect? No. Do I think it's a huge improvement over 2016? Yes.

 

There are a few things I'd liked changed or added, but overall I am happy. I just want more freedom with products, mainly.

 

Though I am tempted to see how big I can grow an "Adult Risque" company once the full release is out.

[jesseewiak]

Now that I downloaded one of the skins, the UI is actually fine to me. There are some weird changes to the placement of things and maybe we could adjust the colors of certain ratings, and make the segment rating bigger, and it's be A-OK to me. I really don't understand how the testers dealt with the default color scheme, though.

 

Anyway, I want to point out a few positive things that I've noticed, that people may not be seeing, simply because of the lack of time, and the bigger issues.

 

One big thing is in the way you can book matches - if you misbook somebody, instead of starting from scratch after adding road agent notes, or if you made something a 2 v 2 and forgot the ladder, you can edit both things and you won't have to re-add all your notes, unless of course, one of the notes doesn't lineup with your changes.

 

Another thing is the opportunity for wrestlers to offer to put over workers. It make things a little more realistic, and more importantly, gives you ideas for storylines or angles that may not have happened before.

 

Merch is also great, with the top workers being shown as far as who is drawing merch money, and the idea you can better the merch portion of your business, just like everything else. To go along with that, ticket prices is also fun, especially if you want to start at the bottom, and essentially have a true backyard fed, or really juice that gate for your big show of the year.

 

On products though, I can actually see both sides. To the positive, I actually think it's good for players to be able to just choose a product and move on. On the other hand, if it was possible, maybe there should be an ability to choose 'Advaned Mode' and choose your own type of product, or something like that, so if you want your Comedy Lucha T&A Pure Sport fed, you can.

 

On the other hand, I think the actual limits and restrictions should be more put in the descriptions. For instance, w/ USPW, their default product means any angles over 5 minutes get a negative boost. As part of their product (aka late 80's/early 90's WWF), that feels fine to me. On the other hand, it doesn't make it clear since a 'short' promo could be 2 minutes or 6 minutes depending on the person, and if part of the product limitations is to create an easier to understand product screen, that information should also be there.

 

In general, I think with a slightly adjusted UI, and some slight backend changes, the issues 80% of people will be fixed. So, I hope Adam and crew can hopefully do that.

[combolock]

It's also very possible that they genuinely enjoyed the layout and the game as a whole. . as hard as it may be to find through all the complaints about it, there are a few people on here who only have minor complaints, and even some who outright enjoy it with no complaints..

 

I get this sentiment, but obviously Adam wouldn't have to delay the game less than a week before the release if everything was rainbows and butterflies.

 

From the developers guide:

 

"The feedback in general continues to be excellent, with a lot of the testers having said that they can't now play TEW2016 because it's so lacking compared to the new game - which is, of course, what we're aiming for."

 

"Based on their reactions and my own play tests, I don't think there's any doubt that the game is light years ahead of TEW2016 and will be very well received."

 

 

Those comments above don't seem to be the same for most of the people commentating, maybe that has more to do with people are more likely to complain in a beta than praise. Maybe they just have to get used to everything. I am not sure, but obviously something went wrong.

[Genadi]

Concept art that does not take into account the limits of the programming language used for the TEW games.The programming language does not allow for scrolling with the colored lists turned on or transparent png files. How do you think it will fare rendering that concept without becoming an absolute graphic nightmare for anyone to mod with skins?

 

By the way, the "artist" you speak of has a four year degree, has been designing for well over ten years, and has released various logos, banners, mods, skins, and whatever else for free on this board over the past fifteen years that have mostly been well liked and gotten a great reception. Not to mention the fact that he is a fellow human being, raising a family, and also going through a rough time with the world wide pandemic. Yay mental health! I get it if this skin isn't your taste and you have problems with it, but seeing constant posts like this is a bit much.

 

Concerns are being addressed. It's much easier for artists improve upon an established layout and get a skin "released" a couple days after the game drops that addresses things that people do not like by changing buttons and borders (but is 90% the work of the original artist still.) Building it from the ground up is a whole other story. I'm glad users like Kam and even J Silver (whose little rant in his thread too contributes to the unwarranted over the top toxicity of this board) have put out versions that they consider improvements already. The whole modding section is supposed to improve upon the game and the community as a whole. Heck, I released a whole pack of assets to make it easier for people that want to make skins.

 

I don't know if it is being cooped up due to the virus, but the toxicity across the board is overwhelming and the entitled attitudes here are just head scratching. Relax. There's no need for it.

 

I've not seen any insults only fair and valid criticism of many obvious flaws. This is a product you're charging for, I assume Adam paid you for your work. I think a lot of this perceived "Toxicity" is a result of taking criticism of the game, UI etc personally.

 

If you charge for a product, hype said product for over a year while dismissing all outside help and then produce such an underwhelming demo it's inevitable people will be upset. I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong here but can we please stop acting like this is one sided and the negativity is only coming from one small group of "new members" (Whatever being new is supposed to imply, like their opinions are less valid for some reason?). I've witnessed first hand both sides today being guilty of taking things personally.

 

Here's a really good example of how just the UI drama could've been prevented, posting screen previews when hundreds were requesting it weeks ago. There are a lot of things devs could've done to prevent so much fallout and anger the past few days but instead it's being turned around and the finger is once again being pointed at the community.

[HarryFandango86]

I think Adam is a victim of his own success. Tew 2016 was so well done that anything different to that or challenging that was going to be met with people getting panicked.

If you ever play the football manager games they literally release the same looking game every year, cos they’re too scared to try anything that looks different. I don’t want to play ‘tew 2016 + a few extra features’. I’m encouraged that the game looks and feels different.

I think it’s refreshing that Adam wants to revamp and try to incorporate new ideas into this franchise and isn’t just going to rehash what worked well last time. I’m confident that in time this version of TEW will grow to be a strong installment for the TEW series and will further lay foundation for the future of the series. I think the guy has at least earned our patience and respect for his accomplished work in the past.

Did you ever notice how with tew 2016 there was patches consistently coming out a long time after release improving the game little by little, bit by bit. There is just no need to panic at all.

Also, pushing the date back will hopefully give the excellent modders a chance to get something done. It will all hopefully come together in a few more weeks.

[Big Roguey]

I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong here but can we please stop acting like this is one sided and the negativity is only coming from one small group of "new members" (Whatever being new is supposed to imply, like their opinions are less valid for some reason?). I've witnessed first hand both sides today being guilty of taking things personally.

 

I want to highlight this point cause I've seen it come up a few times. Everyone's opinion is valid here irregardless of how long you've been posting on the boards. Genadi hits the nail on the head, saying that it's "new members" infers that the opinions are less valid of people who've been posting here since day one when that isn't the case.

[Genadi]

Thanks MH.

 

I just think we all need to take a big deep breath and remember we're all here and posting for the love of the game. We all want the same thing. Hoping emotions will calm over the next few days and posts can stick to the relevant issues.

[FlightlessGypsy]

I want to highlight this point cause I've seen it come up a few times. Everyone's opinion is valid here irregardless of how long you've been posting on the boards. Genadi hits the nail on the head, saying that it's "new members" infers that the opinions are less valid of people who've been posting here since day one when that isn't the case.

 

I've tried my best to make sure I'm only crediting my tenure as a GDS purchaser so the reader of my critique has some context to why I may think one way or another. To insult new members is to damage this communities growth which in turn, damages profits for the developer!

[Bull]

I get this sentiment, but obviously Adam wouldn't have to delay the game less than a week before the release if everything was rainbows and butterflies.

 

From the developers guide:

 

"The feedback in general continues to be excellent, with a lot of the testers having said that they can't now play TEW2016 because it's so lacking compared to the new game - which is, of course, what we're aiming for."

 

"Based on their reactions and my own play tests, I don't think there's any doubt that the game is light years ahead of TEW2016 and will be very well received."

 

 

Those comments above don't seem to be the same for most of the people commentating, maybe that has more to do with people are more likely to complain in a beta than praise. Maybe they just have to get used to everything. I am not sure, but obviously something went wrong.

 

I'm not denying that fact by any means, I just think it so much easier to get caught up in all the negativity that people don't bother to find the positives. . especially on the internet. .

 

I certainly agree that there are improvements to be made, but people's innate desire to just spew vitriol at Adam and the testers when he has yet to make a game where he doesn't address as many of the complaints as he can..

 

Some people loved it and a lot of people hated it, but based on his track record he's given me no reason to doubt that he's gonna do everything he can to make it enjoyable for as many people as he can. . It's just hard to comprehend that people seem to choose to ignore that. .

[Blake Trask]

I've not seen any insults only fair and valid criticism of many obvious flaws. This is a product you're charging for, I assume Adam paid you for your work. I think a lot of this perceived "Toxicity" is a result of taking criticism of the game, UI etc personally.

 

If you charge for a product, hype said product for over a year while dismissing all outside help and then produce such an underwhelming demo it's inevitable people will be upset. I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong here but can we please stop acting like this is one sided and the negativity is only coming from one small group of "new members" (Whatever being new is supposed to imply, like their opinions are less valid for some reason?). I've witnessed first hand both sides today being guilty of taking things personally.

 

Here's a really good example of how just the UI drama could've been prevented, posting screen previews when hundreds were requesting it weeks ago. There are a lot of things devs could've done to prevent so much fallout and anger the past few days but instead it's being turned around and the finger is once again being pointed at the community.

 

 

Phrasing and tone is often the difference between valid criticism and toxicity. There is a right and a wrong way to critique.

 

I've been disgusted with the tone and entitlement of many posts and posters in criticising the game. If you genuinely feel that nobody dragging the UI in particular has been toxic, I can only assume you've managed to evade a lot of the posts about it.

[Genadi]

Phrasing and tone is often the difference between valid criticism and toxicity. There is a right and a wrong way to critique.

 

I've been disgusted with the tone and entitlement of many posts and posters in criticising the game. If you genuinely feel that nobody dragging the UI in particular has been toxic, I can only assume you've managed to evade a lot of the posts about it.

 

Was doing my utmost to remain impartial but tbh most of the toxicity I've seen the past few days has been from members defending the demo and attacking people criticising it, calling them whingers, accusing them of being fake accounts and bringing their "Forum join date" into the conversation.

 

I don't want to derail this thread. I posted what I did in an attempt to offer some perspective and reasoning for what's occurred here on the forums. Instead of this Us vs Them mentality I was hoping some would see a lot is just a lack of communication not a lack of respect as others are making out.

 

Tone is hard to convey and understand on the internet, I suggest looking at content posted and debating that if it warrants and not picking apart tone because it's a slippery slope.

[RosettaStoned]

I’ve been played for two days now with a new skin (which I think is necessary) and I think 90% of the game feels good. I’d like a couple buttons back, a few numbers bigger but I like perception and I like the new product system. I definitely a fan of what I’ve experienced so far with gimmicks. Can’t wait to play a long save.

Is it possible to apply skins from TEW2016 or are there new ones available specifically for 2020 already?

[Jaded]

Is it possible to apply skins from TEW2016 or are there new ones available specifically for 2020 already?

 

Some new ones in mods forum - this is really helping me, in particular.

 

http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showthread.php?t=545242

[Lucas]

My reaction is similar to previous ones with TEW, some UI frustrations, some of them returned with this version too, like the windows popping up in the middle of my screen, rather than following where I've dragged TEW to on my monitor. That's hugely annoying for me, and other stuff too that's well documented in this thread.

 

But for all the negatives I can see glimpses of positives of what's trying to be done in places even if I might think it could be better. Some things no doubt, tech limitations of what's being worked with.

 

I'm hoping font improvements are coming with text size/spacing, no reason this couldn't be done in the list boxes - I appreciate this is challenging elsewhere due to UI design decisions made with layouts etc. That's another story for another day. Others have posted about this very eloquently and constructively and I don't need to clutter with nothing new.

 

It might make for harsh reading for testers and the dev team. I know how that feels. But it's the gig and that's the risk with product development. You can't please everyone all of the time, but I would be pleased in a sense such criticism is being made heard. It could be worse, and hear nothing at all. Fact that it's being put forward means people want to see improvements and enjoy it. I'm sure there is the best of intentions, even if tone isn't always the best from some people.

 

Anyway - look forward to seeing the coming updates.

[GoFish2020]

 

I've been disgusted with the tone and entitlement of many posts and posters in criticising the game. If you genuinely feel that nobody dragging the UI in particular has been toxic, I can only assume you've managed to evade a lot of the posts about it.

 

Toxic is such a tired term, I am a bit bored of it being used as this first resort whenever someone disagrees with others opinions.

 

People on here are customers. The thread invited people to feedback their views. People have done that. Some have been happy, some satisfied and some very unsatisfied.

 

You seem to see the situation very differently when you refer to ‘entitlement’. This is a commercial product. If feedback for something you are being invited to purchase is invited and you do not think it’s worth your £35 then yes you absolutely are entitled to voice that- you are being invited to for goodness sake!

 

This isn’t an open source product where it is being done for solely altruistic purposes. If it were then your criticism would have some validity. Adam will be grown up enough to recognise that whilst his games are a labour of love but equally that he makes an income from it and is serves nobody to sugar coat their opinions when being made aware of negatives gives him the chance to maximise his products appeal and thus sales of the game.

 

Before the ‘new member’ rubbish begins again. I have played the game since the days of EWD and have enjoyed every iteration. Long since I stopped watching wrestling (a good decade ago) I have continued to enjoy the game.

 

Each version has given me many hours of enjoyment. This version as it stands doesn’t seem likely to, I think many of those voicing that criticism are likely to in fact be the longest standing users of the game. People who do not post the forums because they starting playing as teenagers and are now have families and other commitments.

[TOTKingNothing]

I want to highlight this point cause I've seen it come up a few times. Everyone's opinion is valid here irregardless of how long you've been posting on the boards. Genadi hits the nail on the head, saying that it's "new members" infers that the opinions are less valid of people who've been posting here since day one when that isn't the case.

 

I really appreciate you taking time to say that. As you can see from my profile, I’m a long time member, but I very rarely post. I am usually a very satisfied customer and I lurk and enjoy dynasties, but rarely post.

 

Until this launch.

 

I’ve posted more on the forums this weekend than I ever have in the past 11 years, all because of my passion for the games that GDS produces, and my hope that my constructive criticism is heard.

 

While I didn’t get personally talked down to, I did see others getting talked down to and it was disheartening.

[Blake Trask]

Toxic is such a tired term, I am a bit bored of it being used as this first resort whenever someone disagrees with others opinions.

 

People on here are customers. The thread invited people to feedback their views. People have done that. Some have been happy, some satisfied and some very unsatisfied.

 

You seem to see the situation very differently when you refer to ‘entitlement’. This is a commercial product. If feedback for something you are being invited to purchase is invited and you do not think it’s worth your £35 then yes you absolutely are entitled to voice that- you are being invited to for goodness sake!

 

This isn’t an open source product where it is being done for solely altruistic purposes. If it were then your criticism would have some validity. Adam will be grown up enough to recognise that whilst his games are a labour of love but equally that he makes an income from it and is serves nobody to sugar coat their opinions when being made aware of negatives gives him the chance to maximise his products appeal and thus sales of the game.

 

Before the ‘new member’ rubbish begins again. I have played the game since the days of EWD and have enjoyed every iteration. Long since I stopped watching wrestling (a good decade ago) I have continued to enjoy the game.

 

Each version has given me many hours of enjoyment. This version as it stands doesn’t seem likely to, I think many of those voicing that criticism are likely to in fact be the longest standing users of the game. People who do not post the forums because they starting playing as teenagers and are now have families and other commitments.

 

It's not toxic because I disagree. I think there are legitimate reasons for people to raise their concerns, and I personally have some issues with the initial demo that I have hopes will get ironed out. However, the attitude and tone of how people have voiced their opinions has in many cases absolutely reeked.

 

It's toxic because it's rude, insulting, and actually has been personal attacks in many cases. The game's been called awful, stated to be not worth $5, the testers have been called sycophants and worse, people have called the UI developer an amateur, insulted the renderers, etc etc etc etc.

 

I do not think it's inaccurate to say it's entitlement when this is a beta demo that nobody has yet paid for. Like, for heavens sake, people are acting like Adam has already taken their money.

 

Toxic is a useful shorthand. I am not saying that nobody should criticise but I do not think it is unreasonable that people be polite and respectful.

 

And yes some users have attacked back in the opposite direction too against the critics.