Public Beta Reaction Thread

[BiffJordan]

I've been going through the demo for the past few days... such an exciting time. I've been with this game since Extreme Warefare Deluxe! What a long journey.

 

Every release has taken me an adjustment period, physically and mentally. It's just getting used to the new screen is all. Already I see some benefits. The big issue is that it does at first seem to be less intuitive or user friendly that I anticipated. Not being about to use my arrow keys to scroll through the long lists of workers is truly brutal. Especially considering that I play real world mods so the Cornell Verse wrestlers really mean nothing to me. I don't know how I'd ever get around to looking at all the free agents out there, much less really understand my own roster.

 

I really wish this update evolved the technologoy but it does seem more of the same. So much clicking!

 

I can't really understand the game until I have a real world mod to play with. I need that level of familarity to explore what the games offers.

 

I will say that 2016 does look much easier on the eyes. I opened it up to compare and it's honestly much easier on the eyes.

 

To the makers of the game I appreciate all your work but it will take some revamping for us to really enjoy all the intricatcies you developed for the game!

[BiffJordan]

BTW I saw the question on the forum "how do you fire someone" and so I decdied to try and figure it out myself. It took at least 20 minutes to figure it out. Now that I know I don't mind where it is but my point is that the "arrows over" option is not something I care for.

[MachismoX]

Yeah, I don't know where every option is yet, but I'll figure it out in time.

 

I've got a similar outlook to you here. I think 2016 was the first version I didn't have initial confusion about gameplay (though honestly I have put so many hours in at this point who knows). A couple restarts and discoveries then suddenly you're off to the races on a longterm save.

[BiffJordan]

The product selection options are a mess. How can I be expected to click through every single option. It's a mess for that alone but then take into account these production descriptions and names... wtf is this?

[Eastshire]

I really wish this update evolved the technologoy but it does seem more of the same. So much clicking!

 

Even though I'm generally satisfied with it, I will agree that it does seem like such a lost opportunity. I wish Adam would have upgraded his toolbox at the same time he rewrote the game from the ground up.

 

Extending the don't used colored lists should cut down on clicking.

[D16NJD16]

 

I was looking forward to playing a new version of this game with improved features, instead I'm getting a new version with improved features and a UI/UX that makes it unplayable for me. It's not only not an upgrade to the last iteration, it's an incredibly huge downgrade. Adam made it significantly worse.

 

I'm in this boat also.

[1PWfan]

It's an interesting thing, given the general reaction, but I vastly prefer this to 2016. I think a lot of that's down to the database- I honestly found the cverse in '16 to be deeply uninspiring and was never really enthused by it- but this one seems so improved that I'm finding my experience and reaction to be wildly different from what seems to be the general consensus. Honestly, the only thing I'd change is recolouring the red buttons to something else as I find it very harsh.

[Hive]

The fact that the feedback from the private testers was SO positive that Adam believed the game would be very well received is an immediate red flag. Testers are "employed" to be overly critical and to break software, they aren't there to be friends with the developers and when the reception from them becomes like Adam has described then they become pretty useless to the process.

 

I fully understand why Ryland picked the testers from his inner circle of moderators and collaborators on the boards, as those are the people he trusts and feels safe with. But yeah, in hindsight it would probably have benefitted the game to include other types of testers as well and get some other perspectives. There are people on these boards who not only have a great insight in the mechanics of every TEW ever released, have extensive knowledge of modding them all and an amazing knowledge of wrestling from the 80's up untill this day who could have been great assets to such a testing phase (and no, just to clarify: I am most certainly not talking about myself). I know there has been bad blood between Ryland and some of those members, making such an inclusion difficult - but it could really have benefitted the game to reach out a hand to some of those people for testing the game.

 

But it is what it is, and I think everyone who have expressed their opinions in this thread - regardles whether they were positive, negative or a mixed bag - wants this game to succeed. Some have been overly critical, some have been overly defensive - but both sides should calm down and remember that we all want the same thing: an amazing game with a large following. So let's all work together with that common goal in mind.

 

Constructive criticism is vital to any game (though it is, of course, paramount to keep it exactly that: constructive). Those of you who lash out against critics out of loyalty to Ryland, remember this: it is far, far better for both the game and, as a result, Ryland, that people who are not happy with what we've seen so far voice their converns, so that (hopefully) most of the complaints can be addressed before release, resulting in most of them hopefully changing their minds and deciding to buy the game after all. Because the alternative to speaking up is simply turning away from the game and never buying it. And although the current situation may have resulted in hurt feelings, I imagine Ryland would prefer that to severely hurting the sales of the game.

[DripDrone]

I think the more I sit with 2020, the more I think this is a game that feels like it doesn't want to be played by a newer audience. I can't resize the game, the UI is a bit of a mess at best, and crucial info is hidden away off of main pages. There's almost nothing to speak of in terms of onboarding, and it generally feels like I'm struggling against a system that maybe doesn't want me to enjoy it.

 

When I was first playing 2016 I could put up with similar issues. But it's been 4 years, there are wrestling sims that cover similar bases that are in HTML5 and in-browser. Other similar sports sim games like Football Manager manage to be text-heavy sports sims that can have modern UI elements. And while I don't care about what launcher I use to run whatever game I'm playing, buying off of a dated looking eLicense page, using a dated looking installer, and always making sure I'm in Admin mode or my game will mess up is a lot less appealing than using Steam, Epic, Origin, or really any other launcher.

 

Not to mention there's something about the design of the game itself that makes itself feel uninviting. The paragraph about Time Decline in the handbook is such a goofy thing to put in when you can, at basically any moment, use the in-game editor to give every other company 0 dollars and yourself 999,999,999. Any product you want to set your company to be must be one of X number of preset products, and if you want to know what any of those products mean in a meaningful way you have to click into yet another window.

 

I bet the game is better in measurable ways, but I also have a lot less hours in the day to struggle against a game that wants to be difficult to parse and interact with to experience those positives.

[Dalton]

Just to add my two cents whatever they're worth, I was (and still am) very excited for the game to be released. I believe it is SO close to being excellent. With a few (albeit fairly large) changes, TEW2020 will consume my free time just like the last installment did. I played the demo for quite a few hours each day since it's came out, and I love the gameplay. I wholeheartedly understand most of the sentiments shared in this thread, and agree with some, mostly about the lack of uniformity among the UI. After booking a few shows, I went back to TEW2016 and even though it's very smooth, it is definitely a step behind in features and choices, which of course is the goal in releasing a successor.

 

Of course I speak for myself here. I write these as just a regular customer who likes the series, without any "bias" one way or another. After the bugs are taken care of and the feedback is considered, I think we will all be happy

[Payne]

My reaction: From someone who has been around the EWR/TEW franchise for over 16 years (Damn it, Adam, we're old)

 

This is the sleekest, nicest thing you've put out to date. This is a gem of a game. With this and WMMA, you've turned this franchise into an almost AAA comparable game.

 

It's going to take some getting used to. As you said, a lot of things that "were just there" are revamped and reworked, if they even reside there at all. You're right, you've made a new game, that is recognizable, and still in the TEW family.

 

That is my initial reaction. When the main game comes out, and I put some real time in, I'm sure I'll let you know what I think again.

 

PS: Thank you for keeping some of my title belts in the game. I loved being a part of making this game come to life.

[FINisher]

But yeah, in hindsight it would probably have benefitted the game to include other types of testers as well and get some other perspectives. There are people on these boards who not only have a great insight in the mechanics of every TEW ever released, have extensive knowledge of modding them all and an amazing knowledge of wrestling from the 80's up untill this day who could have been great assets to such a testing phase (and no, just to clarify: I am most certainly not talking about myself). I know there has been bad blood between Ryland and some of those members, making such an inclusion difficult - but it could really have benefitted the game to reach out a hand to some of those people for testing the game.

 

Check, check, check, check, check..

[ItaOperor]

I've been through 2 saves so far a CWW and a pseudo Road to Glory and for the most part I have got to grips with where things are now. However I have had to use a skin for the first time to be able to play the game.

 

The main issue I've been having is with the white boxes, particularly around the skills, pop, the contract overview screen and the booking analysis screen. I can definitely see why people have been having migraine issues.

 

Another issue is with the size of the segment ratings when running the show, the whole point of the game to my mind is to put on shows that get better and better and you get the reward of seeing your match and show ratings get higher. Currently these ratings are far too small on the screen and ultimately they don't look/feel important which is hurting my immersion with the game.

 

The colour scheme for the skills and match ratings also feels off, hopefully they can be changed back to the old scheme going from red to blue. If not it is just something I'll have to get used to. Is it possible to mod these colours/change them as part of a skin?

 

As far as products go it's a shame that you can't make your own anymore but in conjunction with the preferences there is scope to tweak the available products to my liking - one option that is missing is to turn off the match length requirement; for example in CWW every match on the main card has to be 20 minutes or more which is a bit limiting. If there was an option to turn that off you could still run a competitive fed that is based around workrate and matches but have the flexibility around your match times. You can turn off match aims, match/angle ratios, pre booking penalties, storylines etc so I don't see why this can't be an option also.

 

Overall I've had a positive experience with the demo and hopefully once a few of the kinks have been ironed out, it'll be in a better place come full release.

[Imoutoes]

Batch Auto-Generator

 

The fact that you can make the game batch generate content automatically already made this my favorite TEW so far.

[Dalton]

My reaction: From someone who has been around the EWR/TEW franchise for over 16 years (Damn it, Adam, we're old)

 

This is the sleekest, nicest thing you've put out to date. This is a gem of a game. With this and WMMA, you've turned this franchise into an almost AAA comparable game.

 

It's going to take some getting used to. As you said, a lot of things that "were just there" are revamped and reworked, if they even reside there at all. You're right, you've made a new game, that is recognizable, and still in the TEW family.

 

That is my initial reaction. When the main game comes out, and I put some real time in, I'm sure I'll let you know what I think again.

 

PS: Thank you for keeping some of my title belts in the game. I loved being a part of making this game come to life.

 

I don't want to put thoughts in other people's heads, and of course I do not say this in a condescending way, but like you said here I think the changes made in 2020 will grow on people. If I never visited the General Discussions forum I wouldn't have been aware of a lot of the problems people have. Not to discount anyone's criticism however, as there is certainly room for improvement.

 

I hate the phrase "getting used to it," but I truly believe that will be the case for many of us. After we are all acclimated to the changes made, I think we will all have a better experience playing this game over its predecessors.

 

The fact that you can make the game batch generate content automatically already made this my favorite TEW so far.

 

Right? It seriously is making me consider modding for the first time

[Sinner]

After playing most of the games in the series (skipped2013) I can understand some of the frustration that is felt with 2020. When 2013 and 2016 came out the interface was new and different compared to 2010 and it really turned me off to both games. I went back to 2010 and would occasionally dabble in 16. After time getting used to 16 my familiarity with game made it easier and more fun. Then two mods got me into it all the way ( Death of the territories and The Golden Age Thanks to the mod makers).

The skins for 2020 where horrible for me, within a day of release I found 2 new skins and problem solved. Adam has historically been very good at listening to his customers and I expect no less for 2020.

Are there problems with the beta, yes but I feel very comfortable that they will be addressed.

I'm really hoping we can set our product to fit our preferences, will it happen? I have no idea, if they don't, I will figure it out like any other game.

There are tons of good additions in 2020 and I think once everyone gets used to the new UI and the patches/ retail version come out, its going to be a fun game just like all the others have been. Everyone needs to take a deep breath and relax everything will work out.

Sorry for the long post but I wanted to get all my thoughts in one.

[Bucky Sinister]

I hope that he has heard the criticisms about custom products. Pre-set Products are a fine idea for people who are new to the game or looking for the challenge of playing specific companies, and when you are not playing as the owner, being locked into a product makes complete sense. But taking away the ability to create your own product as an owner or database maker, even as an OPTION, is a giant step back in customization and freedom. Especially when a vast majority of the products are HEAVILY restrictive. Even the "no style" style of product penalizes matches of certain lengths, comedy gimmicks, and cinematic matches?

 

This, exactly.

 

The pre-set Products are my biggest complaint. I can see other things that need work, but Products are such a key part of the creative side of gameplay that not being able to tweak, edit, or make my own might very well be a game-killer. I'm experimenting, but I feel very restricted as it stands right now, and that's not fun for me.

 

EDIT: I should also say that there's a lot of stuff I like, as well. I'm still figuring out how Gimmicks work right now, but I think I'll like it quite a bit once I get the hang of it.

[Skummy]

I fully understand why Ryland picked the testers from his inner circle of moderators and collaborators on the boards, as those are the people he trusts and feels safe with. But yeah, in hindsight it would probably have benefitted the game to include other types of testers as well and get some other perspectives. There are people on these boards who not only have a great insight in the mechanics of every TEW ever released, have extensive knowledge of modding them all and an amazing knowledge of wrestling from the 80's up untill this day who could have been great assets to such a testing phase (and no, just to clarify: I am most certainly not talking about myself). I know there has been bad blood between Ryland and some of those members, making such an inclusion difficult - but it could really have benefitted the game to reach out a hand to some of those people for testing the game.

 

But it is what it is, and I think everyone who have expressed their opinions in this thread - regardles whether they were positive, negative or a mixed bag - wants this game to succeed. Some have been overly critical, some have been overly defensive - but both sides should calm down and remember that we all want the same thing: an amazing game with a large following. So let's all work together with that common goal in mind.

 

Constructive criticism is vital to any game (though it is, of course, paramount to keep it exactly that: constructive). Those of you who lash out against critics out of loyalty to Ryland, remember this: it is far, far better for both the game and, as a result, Ryland, that people who are not happy with what we've seen so far voice their converns, so that (hopefully) most of the complaints can be addressed before release, resulting in most of them hopefully changing their minds and deciding to buy the game after all. Because the alternative to speaking up is simply turning away from the game and never buying it. And although the current situation may have resulted in hurt feelings, I imagine Ryland would prefer that to severely hurting the sales of the game.

 

 

 

With all due respect, I'm on the testing team.

 

I'm not, and never have been, a moderator of this board (or even a particularly active member). Before this week, I probably couldn't have told you who the moderators on this board even were.

 

In terms of being a collaborator, or part of Adam Ryland's "inner circle" - before he asked me to be part of this project, I'm not sure we'd ever exchanged more than a few words when we'd happened to be in the same thread on a forum.

 

From my understanding, I was asked to be part of the team for exactly the reasons you're suggesting - a combination of knowledge of wrestling, and insight into the mechanics of the game as displayed through my posts on here and elsewhere. As other people are pointing out how many past versions they've played in defence of their position, I will say now that I've been playing EW games since EW9000 twenty (!) years ago.

 

 

I can only speak for myself, but I assume a similar story lies behind other members of the testing team as well. And it's neither helpful nor pleasant to see multiple posters on this board crafting a narrative of the team as being nothing but yes men, or jumping to conclusions as to what the testing process entailed, then berating people based on that assumption.

 

 

If there are differences of opinion on quality from the testing team to some of the players, the majority will be just that - opinion. As someone, I believe Arlie, mentioned though, the testing team have necessarily had longer to see the new UI develop and longer to get used to it, rather than being "thrown in at the deep end" and having a lot of change presented to us all at once on release day.

 

That might indicate that, as I believe, the vast majority of issues people are having with the game are little more than the learning curve that will always be part and parcel of finding your way around an extremely complex game, or it may mean that many of us on the team have perhaps been too close to the project as it developed to recognise some issues that other users might have had with it. The truth perhaps lies somewhere in the middle, it's just a matter of which angle you're looking at it from.

 

 

Ultimately, though, I just really wanted to step in and object to the narrative that's forming of Adam Ryland having somehow surrounded himself with a testing team made up of nothing but close confidantes and yes men. It's a narrative that's neither true nor useful in moving forward, and does a disservice to many, many hours of work that have gone into the development of the game over the past two years or so - from the very early conceptual stages, right through to release.

 

It's nothing but jumping to unfounded conclusions and is in its way just as harmful and toxic a response as the flaming and overt name calling that reflected so badly on this forum over the past number of days.

[Dalton]

With all due respect, I'm on the testing team.

 

I'm not, and never have been, a moderator of this board (or even a particularly active member). Before this week, I probably couldn't have told you who the moderators on this board even were.

 

In terms of being a collaborator, or part of Adam Ryland's "inner circle" - before he asked me to be part of this project, I'm not sure we'd ever exchanged more than a few words when we'd happened to be in the same thread on a forum.

 

From my understanding, I was asked to be part of the team for exactly the reasons you're suggesting - a combination of knowledge of wrestling, and insight into the mechanics of the game as displayed through my posts on here and elsewhere. As other people are pointing out how many past versions they've played in defence of their position, I will say now that I've been playing EW games since EW9000 twenty (!) years ago.

 

 

I can only speak for myself, but I assume a similar story lies behind other members of the testing team as well. And it's neither helpful nor pleasant to see multiple posters on this board crafting a narrative of the team as being nothing but yes men, or jumping to conclusions as to what the testing process entailed, then berating people based on that assumption.

 

 

If there are differences of opinion on quality from the testing team to some of the players, the majority will be just that - opinion. As someone, I believe Arlie, mentioned though, the testing team have necessarily had longer to see the new UI develop and longer to get used to it, rather than being "thrown in at the deep end" and having a lot of change presented to us all at once on release day.

 

That might indicate that, as I believe, the vast majority of issues people are having with the game are little more than the learning curve that will always be part and parcel of finding your way around an extremely complex game, or it may mean that many of us on the team have perhaps been too close to the project as it developed to recognise some issues that other users might have had with it. The truth perhaps lies somewhere in the middle, it's just a matter of which angle you're looking at it from.

 

 

Ultimately, though, I just really wanted to step in and object to the narrative that's forming of Adam Ryland having somehow surrounded himself with a testing team made up of nothing but close confidantes and yes men. It's a narrative that's neither true nor useful in moving forward, and does a disservice to many, many hours of work that have gone into the development of the game over the past two years or so - from the very early conceptual stages, right through to release.

 

It's nothing but jumping to unfounded conclusions and is in its way just as harmful and toxic a response as the flaming and overt name calling that reflected so badly on this forum over the past number of days.

 

Thank you for sharing that. I hope people take the time to read it.

[Sylver]

Starting with my own company - pre-booking

 

I started a game unemployed, and then created my own company. I wanted to start an integrated company, similar to Lucha Underground.

 

When I go to the pre-booking screen, there are no wrestlers listed in the window. It just says "Empty" However, I can select the wrestlers using the drop-down checkboxes on the left side. The search bar does not have any thing set that would limit the list of wrestlers available.

 

Pre-booking works fine with existing companies.

[daddytorgo1]

I'm not denying that fact by any means, I just think it so much easier to get caught up in all the negativity that people don't bother to find the positives. . especially on the internet. .

 

I certainly agree that there are improvements to be made, but people's innate desire to just spew vitriol at Adam and the testers when he has yet to make a game where he doesn't address as many of the complaints as he can..

 

Some people loved it and a lot of people hated it, but based on his track record he's given me no reason to doubt that he's gonna do everything he can to make it enjoyable for as many people as he can. . It's just hard to comprehend that people seem to choose to ignore that. .

 

I wouldn't say i was a vocal critic, but I just want to emphasize, there is A TON that I love about 20. Worker personalities, the new perception system, the whole concept of tags making it easier to find angles.

 

If some of the QoL stuff gets sorted out (organizing buttons, making it more clear what's clickable and what isn't, access to worker profiles on the angles screen), this will be a no-brainer. Mods have already done a great job making the default skin less "bright" which was my big issue.

[Sylver]

My overall impression is a positive one.

 

I love the tournaments. I did a lot of those in the old version. It even keeps track of everything for you. Being able to drop in and out of booking during a live show is a big plus.

 

It took some time to learn my way around the new interfaces, but that is to be expected.

[TeemuFoundation]

Yea, tournaments are dope.

[Sylver]

I started a game unemployed, and then created my own company. I wanted to start an integrated company, similar to Lucha Underground.

 

When I go to the pre-booking screen, there are no wrestlers listed in the window. It just says "Empty". However, I can select the wrestlers using the drop-down checkboxes on the left side. The search bar does not have any thing set that would limit the list of wrestlers available.

 

Pre-booking works fine with existing companies.

 

It looks like as you add wrestlers to a booking, it adds them to the list in the middle window.

[fusionfreak]

My second opinion after spending a lot more time with the game

 

I love the game. Not perfect but awesome. The few flaws the game has are being addressed. The only things I can come up with is, lack of scroll bar and keyboard arrow (which has and still is being addressed), the visual element on some screens are hard to look at (again being addressed) and some bugs that are being addressed. Other than that I love the game. I think its better than TEW 16. Just a note about screens, I set my screen resolution at 1366 x 768 and it helps out a lot with the visual element.

 

There is a huge learning curve for the new game which I welcome with open arms. I'm still struggling with the new perception rating as oppose to just ticking a drop down menu and making someone a main event or mid-card. I love the idea though. It seems much more realistic. In real life you can't just hire someone and say they are a main event player and expect the audience to go along with it. Imagine WWE bringing in a new wrestler that no one has heard of except wrestling geeks that follow the indy scene and the guy wins the world championship or universal championship first day on the job and WWE declares him a main event legend...

 

I love the addition of attributes. I'm very happy with the way products are defined. I think it makes it a little more straight forward when deciding on a product. More control over child companies is a welcomed addition.

 

I'd give the game a B+ to A- in the current state. After the issues that are being worked are completed I'd probably hand in an A or A+.