Stamina

[fusionfreak]

<p>I always use the C-Verse data for games and have never really used a real world mod much. I always increase everyone's stamina by 15 to 20 points because if I don't I can't book many matches over 9 minutes without getting a penalty. I always felt like the ratings for stamina in C-Verse were a little low. That said, I was wondering what everyone else thought?</p><p> </p><p>

What does a real match look like when one or more workers don't have enough stamina? I always figured that when the match slows down after 2 or 3 minutes is because they start to get a little winded because that's usually when things slow a bit, but then after a few minutes it picks back up. Basically that continues through out the match. Seems like every match does that unless its short (under 5 minutes). Just a constant cycle of up and down and I just always figured the down moments are so the workers can both rest for a few. Does anyone know of a few real life examples (involving big names and not obscure wrestlers that most haven't heard of) of a match failing in 9 minutes or more because one or more workers involved ran out of stamina?</p>

[Vinsmoker]

<p>Think of any Yokozuna match. Or specially Yokozuna vs. Bret Hart.</p><p>

Bret Hart could easily wrestler for an hour and still sell his opponent's offense and the story of the match itself well. Yokozuna, on the other hand, would be breathing heavily ~5 Minutes into a competitive match. He would no longer be able to sell and instead of screaming in pain after being attacked, he would just lay on his back, breathing heavily and hoping to catch his breath for the next sequence of moves that is supposed to happen.</p><p> </p><p>

Chances are that he will spent a lot of time for the rest of the match either on his back, near the ropes or outside the ring or any combination of these. The ability to sell a match well, is the result.</p>

[Blackman]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="fusionfreak" data-cite="fusionfreak" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="48362" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I always increase everyone's stamina by 15 to 20 points because if I don't I can't book many matches over 9 minutes without getting a penalty</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> That problem should solve itself. Even after 2 months in the demo: if they have a match every week, the value will go up of itself. And quite a lot.</p><p> </p><p> Don't be too afraid of the penalties. Most workers should be able to work a 10 minute match without getting more than 1/2 points of penalty (at least that's how it seems). That's not that much. Imo the values are perfectly fine considering they rise so much.</p>

[fusionfreak]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Blackman" data-cite="Blackman" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="48362" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>That problem should solve itself. Even after 2 months in the demo: if they have a match every week, the value will go up of itself. And quite a lot.<p> </p><p> Don't be too afraid of the penalties. Most workers should be able to work a 10 minute match without getting more than 1/2 points of penalty (at least that's how it seems). That's not that much. Imo the values are perfectly fine considering they rise so much.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I can totally understand an obese wrestler like Yokozuna or Andre The Giant having trouble with stamina but what about someone that should be in about as good as shape as Triple H or Austin or even Batista?</p><p> </p><p> So what about people like Kurt Laramee, Big Smack Scott, Ekuma on SWF or Dazzling Dave Diamond, Killer Shark, Titan on TCW or Atlas, Charlie Thatcher, Petr Novak, The Force in USPW? All of them are really big names in C-Verse and all fairly young (mid 30's to mid 40's) and considering they're body style seems like they should be in good enough enough shape to go 15 to 20 minutes without a big stamina penalty.</p>

[SirMichaelJordan]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="fusionfreak" data-cite="fusionfreak" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="48362" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I can totally understand an obese wrestler like Yokozuna or Andre The Giant having trouble with stamina but what about someone that should be in about as good as shape as Triple H or Austin or even Batista?<p> </p><p> So what about people like Kurt Laramee, Big Smack Scott, Ekuma on SWF or Dazzling Dave Diamond, Killer Shark, Titan on TCW or Atlas, Charlie Thatcher, Petr Novak, The Force in USPW? All of them are really big names in C-Verse and all fairly young (mid 30's to mid 40's) and considering they're body style seems like they should be in good enough enough shape to go 15 to 20 minutes without a big stamina penalty.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> CM Punk vs The Rock is a good example.</p>

[Matt_Black]

I can totally understand an obese wrestler like Yokozuna or Andre The Giant having trouble with stamina but what about someone that should be in about as good as shape as Triple H or Austin or even Batista?

 

 

Look at Triple H's matches with Scott Steiner in the early 2000s. Admittedly, Scott had some other physical issues, and HHH was going out of his way to not do Scott any favors.

 

Another example of someone who you wouldn't necessarily think of as "out of shape", Shane Douglas's match with (I'm pretty sure it was) Raven in the first year or so of TNA. Douglas was VOMITING during the course of the match.

[fusionfreak]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="SirMichaelJordan" data-cite="SirMichaelJordan" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="48362" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>CM Punk vs The Rock is a good example.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Matt_Black" data-cite="Matt_Black" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="48362" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Look at Triple H's matches with Scott Steiner in the early 2000s. Admittedly, Scott had some other physical issues, and HHH was going out of his way to not do Scott any favors.<p> </p><p> Another example of someone who you wouldn't necessarily think of as "out of shape", Shane Douglas's match with (I'm pretty sure it was) Raven in the first year or so of TNA. Douglas was VOMITING during the course of the match.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I didn't see Punk vs Rock or Douglas vs Raven but I'll find it on youtube later. Who was struggling with the Punk vs Rock match? I did see Triple H and Steiner in the early 2000's. I don't remember thinking Steiner was so badly winded that it ruined the matches for me though. I'm not even sure I thought about it to be honest. I have to admit I'm not one that notices something like that unless its really obvious. Someone vomiting during a match would definitely be noticeable but then again I would also wonder if it was worked in for effect, lol. Anyway, thanks for the replies. I'll for sure check out Rock vs Punk and Douglas vs Raven. I really quit watching wrestling once the PG era kicked in.</p>

[Matt_Black]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="fusionfreak" data-cite="fusionfreak" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="48362" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div> Who was struggling with the Punk vs Rock match? </div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I'm guessing The Rock. It was a common criticism of his 2010s appearances. Even in the Royal Rumble where he helped out Roman Reigns, he was looking a little "Aw, geez, I forgot how much work this can be".</p>

[SirMichaelJordan]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="fusionfrea" data-cite="fusionfrea" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="48362" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I didn't see Punk vs Rock or Douglas vs Raven but I'll find it on youtube later. Who was struggling with the Punk vs Rock match? I did see Triple H and Steiner in the early 2000's. I don't remember thinking Steiner was so badly winded that it ruined the matches for me though. I'm not even sure I thought about it to be honest. I have to admit I'm not one that notices something like that unless its really obvious. Someone vomiting during a match would definitely be noticeable but then again I would also wonder if it was worked in for effect, lol. Anyway, thanks for the replies. I'll for sure check out Rock vs Punk and Douglas vs Raven. I really quit watching wrestling once the PG era kicked in.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Rock was struggling with his cardio. Most of these aren’t going to be noticeable especially if the guy working with them can cover for it, but still the match will not be as good as it could have been and that is what the game is simulating.</p>

[jonnycosmic]

<p>Is it promotion/product dependant? </p><p> </p><p>

For example, a worker with 60 stamina would be unable to go over 10 minutes in a pure wrestling fed. Would that same worker be able to go 15 minutes without penalty in an entertainment/storytelling fed?</p>

[cwamaniac]

<p>Good question</p><p> </p><p>

Is stamina relative to the promotion it’s in?</p>

[SirMichaelJordan]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="jonnycosmic" data-cite="jonnycosmic" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="48362" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Is it promotion/product dependant? <p> </p><p> For example, a worker with 60 stamina would be unable to go over 10 minutes in a pure wrestling fed. Would that same worker be able to go 15 minutes without penalty in an entertainment/storytelling fed?</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> He would naturally do better in a low intensity product vs a higher intensity product.</p>

[cwamaniac]

So the answer is yes?

 

Ok so stamina is product dependent good to know (wondering if anyone has a scale sitting around so we can know the cut off points)

[mharmon99]

I can totally understand an obese wrestler like Yokozuna or Andre The Giant having trouble with stamina but what about someone that should be in about as good as shape as Triple H or Austin or even Batista?

 

So what about people like Kurt Laramee, Big Smack Scott, Ekuma on SWF or Dazzling Dave Diamond, Killer Shark, Titan on TCW or Atlas, Charlie Thatcher, Petr Novak, The Force in USPW? All of them are really big names in C-Verse and all fairly young (mid 30's to mid 40's) and considering they're body style seems like they should be in good enough enough shape to go 15 to 20 minutes without a big stamina penalty.

 

Brawlers don't normally have a lot of stamina. Heavyweights and above don't have that great of stamina, and the bigger they are, the less stamina they should have. Big show should not be in long matches. Triple H, Steve Austin or Batista are not known for their long matches. Also the important thing about stamina is that a worker with high psychology will be able to get around his limitations. Those people you're talking about don't have that much in psychology as they are monsters and entertainers. The Average match in WWE is pretty short if you time it. The big matches you see on PPV are like 15 minutes and that's with guys like Seth, Sami, Brian, etc.

 

Hope that helps

[Matt_Black]

Ok so stamina is product dependent good to know (wondering if anyone has a scale sitting around so we can know the cut off points)

 

I don't know the scale, but generally, a lot of the Lucha products (surprisingly) and Western entertainment products tend to be more forgiving on the workers.

 

Even then, you'll often be given warnings by road agents before booking if you put a worker in a match that would be way to long for them. F'rinstance, I hired Connie Morris for QAW, and was going to put her in an 18 minute match. Both she and her opponent had good enough psychology for a "Slow Build" approach, but the road agent still warned me that Connie isn't built for a match that long anymore.

[cwamaniac]

That’s true

 

If possible I’d like a scale put in the in game manual but if that not possible I’ll be fine with it,

 

After all I love the fact that road against are actually warning me now lol

[Matt_Black]

If possible I’d like a scale put in the in game manual but if that not possible I’ll be fine with it,

 

After all I love the fact that road against are actually warning me now lol

 

Yeah, it used to be you only got warnings if someone was injured, or you set a road agent note for a finish someone didn't like (which was especially fun if the other worker had a good enough menace score. "*Cracks knuckles*").

[WalterSobchak]

I always use the C-Verse data for games and have never really used a real world mod much. I always increase everyone's stamina by 15 to 20 points because if I don't I can't book many matches over 9 minutes without getting a penalty. I always felt like the ratings for stamina in C-Verse were a little low. That said, I was wondering what everyone else thought?

 

What does a real match look like when one or more workers don't have enough stamina? I always figured that when the match slows down after 2 or 3 minutes is because they start to get a little winded because that's usually when things slow a bit, but then after a few minutes it picks back up. Basically that continues through out the match. Seems like every match does that unless its short (under 5 minutes). Just a constant cycle of up and down and I just always figured the down moments are so the workers can both rest for a few. Does anyone know of a few real life examples (involving big names and not obscure wrestlers that most haven't heard of) of a match failing in 9 minutes or more because one or more workers involved ran out of stamina?

 

I tend to bump up a guy here and there as well, especially if their body type would naturally support it.

[fusionfreak]

Thanks for the responses everyone.

 

So just a hypothetical, if I were booking Triple H vs Scott Steiner from the early 2000's in a 15 to 20 minute match how many points should a match be penalized for Scott Steiner having low stamina? I'm just trying to understand stamina in wrestling a little better.

 

What would an estimate for stamina be of say, Andre The Giant, Scott Steiner, Triple H, Goldberg/Batista, Rock, Austin, Flair, Sting be? Just asking so I can kind of understand what I'm looking at.

 

Again, thanks a ton everyone for breaking it down. It really helps to understand it a little more.