Blackman Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 The more I'm watching the demo, the more I'm sensing that AI booking is a huge step backwards from the last game. There is way more repetitive booking, and several things just don't make sense at all. I haven't kept a list as I've always dismissed it as 'circumstantial' or 'unlucky draw', but after repeating the same watching game over 3 months over and over, the more I see the same things happening all the time, so that pretty much cancel out any 'contingency'. The big feud right now in CWA is between Cameron Vessey and Sean McFly. Amazing, except they haven't faced off in a single match in 3 months. Mikey and Crippler are in a feud that "could headline any show". Except they had one match in 3 months, and it was parked in the midcard somewhere. They never even got involved in an angle so realistically, the feud would be dead. Meanwhile, other workers who aren't in a feud at all get the same 1 on 1 match every week for 10 weeks in a row. How would anyone even watch this show? The player is also getting his rating demolished if you don't actively feature 3 hot stories on every show. But let's get AI host main event feuds where they have a minor segment every month and get more in-ring time with pretty much all other people. Now: I do get long-term booking and teasing a match, but this is not a feud. If you're building up a high profile match and the workers barely come in contact, that's not a feud in pro wrestling. I don't get why anyone has brought this up. This can't just be in my games as I literaly haven't interacted with the universe and all, haven't changed anything. So this should technically be the same in all games. So before I'm posting it as a bug, which I'm pretty sure this is as this cannot be done unrealistically on purpose, I'm checking whether anyone else feels like it's fine the way it is. Or do people simply not care and just play their own company without even checking others? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaded Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 The more I'm watching the demo, the more I'm sensing that AI booking is a huge step backwards from the last game. There is way more repetitive booking, and several things just don't make sense at all. I haven't kept a list as I've always dismissed it as 'circumstantial' or 'unlucky draw', but after repeating the same watching game over 3 months over and over, the more I see the same things happening all the time, so that pretty much cancel out any 'contingency'. The big feud right now in CWA is between Cameron Vessey and Sean McFly. Amazing, except they haven't faced off in a single match in 3 months. Mikey and Crippler are in a feud that "could headline any show". Except they had one match in 3 months, and it was parked in the midcard somewhere. They never even got involved in an angle so realistically, the feud would be dead. Meanwhile, other workers who aren't in a feud at all get the same 1 on 1 match every week for 10 weeks in a row. How would anyone even watch this show? The player is also getting his rating demolished if you don't actively feature 3 hot stories on every show. But let's get AI host main event feuds where they have a minor segment every month and get more in-ring time with pretty much all other people. Now: I do get long-term booking and teasing a match, but this is not a feud. If you're building up a high profile match and the workers barely come in contact, that's not a feud in pro wrestling. I don't get why anyone has brought this up. This can't just be in my games as I literaly haven't interacted with the universe and all, haven't changed anything. So this should technically be the same in all games. So before I'm posting it as a bug, which I'm pretty sure this is as this cannot be done unrealistically on purpose, I'm checking whether anyone else feels like it's fine the way it is. Or do people simply not care and just play their own company without even checking others? I haven't checked AI shows for the last several patches, but it was definitely having the issues you described last time I did. I haven't brought it up yet because I'm more worried about stuff that affects players directly, but I definitely agree it would be good if the AI was better - a lot of it does feel like a step back from 16, as you say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirMichaelJordan Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 I haven’t really checked the AI but it sounds like the same thing from previous games which turned me off a lot and ended up with me controlling multiple companies. AI was touted as being revamp or improved in this area so I gave benefit of doubt and really haven’t checked. But this seems horribly the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaded Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 Just looking - in my most recent game, looking at feds I'm not involved in and searching the MDB for 6+ copies of the same match. Brooke Tyler went 11-0 against Lauren Easter in singles matches Crouching Storm, Hidden Sifu went 8-0 in tags against Hot Stuff Dark Wing went 9-0 against Kaito Doan in singles Disco Boys 7-0 vs Full Force in tag Hiraki & Kaima 6-1 vs Shiomi & VENOM Mizoguchi & Sekozawa 6-0 vs Kakinomoto & Koizumi, Terror Rising 16-0 vs Next Level (Sixteen, not a typo) The American Cobras 7-0 vs Mitsukuri & Kinoshita The Red Devils 6-0 vs The Underdogs I know in Japanese touring feds it's probably more expected to have repeated matches, but the one-sidedness for a lot of them is bugging me and the Brooke/Lauren and the two 21CW ones seem really weird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaded Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 On a side note, this is MUCH less of an issue in a game with extreme variance on, judging by my last sim using that. In that, there was only one match which happened 6 times and a very small amount happening 4 or 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackman Posted May 10, 2020 Author Share Posted May 10, 2020 <p><p>Yeah well, there's no way I am ever playing with extreme variance of any kind. Only for organic universes would that be an option.</p><p> </p><p></p><p> To clarify: with "last game" I actually meant WMMA5, where the booker is amazing. Sure, there's no booking profiles like in this game (except for your child promotion) and they all book like UFC books, but every watcher game I've done there was very interesting. As for TEW16: some aspects have improved, but any sense of repetition is just a critical failure as - like I said - no single promotion does that.</p><p> </p><p></p><p> In general, the % of singles matches seems really low. The AI profiles do mention the focus on 3vs3 and tag matches, but sometimes you just get cards made up of only those matches. But that's not that much of a problem. The biggest problem is what Jared just illustrated:</p><p> </p><p></p><p> - Lack of diversity in matchups</p><p></p><p> - Lack of diversity in match results</p><p> </p><p></p><p> As for your examples: Hof Stuff had the same thing, but with The Chaos Connection (8-0)</p><p></p><p> Dark Wing had diverse matches in my latest save.</p><p></p><p> Team Zero Tolerance beat Next Level (8-0). I can't find Terror Rising, that a new team?</p><p> </p><p></p><p> Then something else entirely: I've been checking Lauren's pop loss and to my surprise, despite the near legendary losing streak, <span style="text-decoration:underline;">it actually raised by 8</span>. Now this might be due to it being lower than the company pop, but her momentum was very positive as well. So, technically, as long as your matches are fine, your workers just ooze pop out of themselves? What kind of a game is left then, if no matter how you book, things are magically going to improve for all workers? I didn't cross-check this, but even singled out, this is an extremely curious case. It's rare that a game manages to piss me off more than this demo has in the past few weeks. I'm doing my best to book shows and despite them being 20+ above pop it doesn't get raised at all. My workers' pop on average barely improves despite the decent matches (way above their pop level). But there's this company that does their utmost best to fail at booking and making a worker look as awful as can be, and they just boost their pop up like it's nothing.</p></p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackman Posted May 10, 2020 Author Share Posted May 10, 2020 In another fresh game, I did manage to reproduce the following: Crouching Storm, Hidden Sifu went 8-0 in tags against Hot Stuff (except it was 7-0; again: no feud) Brooke Tyler went 11-0 against Lauren Easter in singles matches (9-0 actually, but this game it's even worse: it's main eventing every show!) Dark Wing was - once again - perfectly fine. "Next level" got squashed 22-0, but 'only' 8 times against a new tag team (like the one you mentioned) and 6 times against "Destiny Champions". I doubt we've seen them "Level Up" at all. The Cobras got a 7-0 streak at first against the same team, but then somehow got into trios matches, which diversified their matchups a lot more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucasLutkus Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 I've been having the same issue. It's very sad since the refreshed AI seemed to be one of the new features and the one I was looking for the most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nickman Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="LucasLutkus" data-cite="LucasLutkus" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="49192" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I've been having the same issue. It's very sad since the refreshed AI seemed to be one of the new features and the one I was looking for the most.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Can’t say I disagree here either. While I’ve never really cared much about what my rival companies are doing, one of the big improvements I was looking forward to in 2020 was an improved autobooker engine, and that not the case.</p><p> </p><p> In fact, the autobooker seems to have regressed horribly. I’m still hopeful there’s some improvements to come in this sphere.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackman Posted May 10, 2020 Author Share Posted May 10, 2020 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="The Nickman" data-cite="The Nickman" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="49192" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>In fact, the autobooker seems to have regressed horribly. I’m still hopeful there’s some improvements to come in this sphere.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> He did improve the autobooker already, but it was indeed useless upon the launch and obviously wasn't tested apart from "it books". <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /> Atm it seems fine but you cannot trust it on its own. You'd have to treat it more like your 'staff' pitching an idea for the show that you'll need to polish.</p><p> </p><p> Sadly the features I looked forward to: AI booking and developmental seem to be getting the short end of the stick so far. I've seen some weird stuff happening to developmental but I'll hold on to posting it until I get some long games in (as no one else seems to notice), but it definitely needs some work. But I hope more people notice these as the game "unlocks" and test games get longer.</p><p> </p><p> Honestly I will not be able to play this game until it makes sense. It doesn't have to be good booking (not even for actual "good" bookers), but it needs to look like it could realistically happen in this or any parallel universe. The shows on themselves are fine imo, but the history for the "big", weekly-show promotions - after simming 3 months - is a joke.</p><p> </p><p> Then I'm better off just starting another WMMA-save where the entire game world is alive and feels real.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathcon Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 The improvements in AI Booking are that AI can now "push" wrestlers if they have 70 booking skill and "depush" if they have I think 75. Otherwise I think besides making new stables nothing else changed in AI Booking that much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donners Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 <p>From the journal:</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="49192" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>... I can say that the results we've been seeing in testing are very, very promising even at this early stage. In particular, the booking of tag teams, trios, eight man teams, etc, are working ridiculously well, far better than I'd anticipated. </div></blockquote><p> </p><p> ...</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="49192" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>The booking engine continues to work really well, especially with regard to the AI. Tag teams in particular are working superbly...</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I'm not sure this quite meets the hype. It's not only repeating the exact same matches, but the same results.</p><p> </p><p> <img alt="31T4kg5.jpg" data-src="https://imgur.com/31T4kg5.jpg/" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackman Posted May 10, 2020 Author Share Posted May 10, 2020 Yeah, well I'm guessing none of the testers played the game for a long time. The fact that their eyes weren't hurting over the UI makes that painfully obvious. I'm currently looking towards the AI booking styles and see if that can be changed. But so far no result. It even made it worse when setting it to a more singles-based profile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d12345 Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 On a side note, this is MUCH less of an issue in a game with extreme variance on, judging by my last sim using that. In that, there was only one match which happened 6 times and a very small amount happening 4 or 5. What is extreme variance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donners Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 Yeah, well I'm guessing none of the testers played the game for a long time. The fact that their eyes weren't hurting over the UI makes that painfully obvious. I have no idea what happened with testing. They apparently didn't make a single card with ACPW, since it was missed that the fans hated half the roster, so I don't have much faith in long-term testing. To be fair, though, this booking only seems to be happening with certain pairings/companies. I've been going through SWF and they seem fine. What is extreme variance? It's a setting in the editor - it adjusts data (skills, popularity and business settings) by up to 15 points when you start a new game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d12345 Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 The big feud right now in CWA is between Cameron Vessey and Sean McFly. Amazing, except they haven't faced off in a single match in 3 months. Are you just looking at matches or are you looking at show reports as well? In my game Sean McFly and Cam Vessey have only been in 1 match together so far (middle of month 2) but they've been having angles weekly. For comparison if you just looked at real life AEW match histories you would see that Cody and Archer have had 0 matches in 3 months but they've had enough segments to keep the feud going. It's a setting in the editor - it adjusts data (skills, popularity and business settings) by up to 15 points when you start a new game. Oh right I do play with that on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaneQuixote Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 Just wanted to pile onto this and say that the computer's AI might be make/break for me in purchasing this. I posted a separate thread about this a while back but it didn't illicit any responses. I was looking very much forward to competing in a real world simulator like nothing we have seen before, but I've constantly seen the issue of rematches for weeks on end, feuds leading nowhere, title matches happening out of order (why is the IC belt headlining a show over any world title?), major stars being left off major shows for no reason (WrestleKingdom not booking Okada OR Naito for no reason) and the AI booking multiple instances of table/ladder/cage matches over and over for weeks on end and sometimes in the exact same show. It's been a pretty big disappointment in pretty much every game I've run so far across numerous databases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edenborn Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 the computer's AI might be make/break for me in purchasing this.Same here. The AI's booking has to feel plausible. Not perfect, but plausible, or else I just lose interest. There are features I like in TEW 2020 but I'm not yet sold. Adam has a good track record of implementing customer-requested changes, so I'm hopeful the AI is very much on his radar as he continues to make adjustments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capelli King Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 yeah, there seems to be way too much repetitive booking from the AI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jalberico Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 Yeah, well I'm guessing none of the testers played the game for a long time. The fact that their eyes weren't hurting over the UI makes that painfully obvious. I'm currently looking towards the AI booking styles and see if that can be changed. But so far no result. It even made it worse when setting it to a more singles-based profile. To this day I still love TEW 2016. So like everyone else, I was pumped for 2020. I downloaded the trial on Day 1. The UI was so cluttered and crowded that I closed the game before even starting a save. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaneQuixote Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 Same here. The AI's booking has to feel plausible. Not perfect, but plausible, or else I just lose interest. There are features I like in TEW 2020 but I'm not yet sold. Adam has a good track record of implementing customer-requested changes, so I'm hopeful the AI is very much on his radar as he continues to make adjustments. Sounds like he tweaked the tag/women's divisions in the last patch. I'm optimistic! I'll run some more games later today and see what happens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackman Posted May 11, 2020 Author Share Posted May 11, 2020 Seems like one part of the problem has been solved. In my latest watcher game, I still see these comical feuds: Ricky & Shooter battle in a very important feud at the top of the card. Except it's been 3 months, and just one angle so far, and it was actually the opening segment. I guess if you use the flip option that counts as the top of the card. I now see the text in the AI feuds is random, which is nice, but the importance does seem to be the same every time. And the importance does not seem consistent with the frequency. I'm fine with angles being openers or whatever, as that barely matters, but once every 3 months is not something you call a feud. I can book Scythe saying "hi" to Remo in the backstage area and stretch that out for a year after months of inactivity, but it'd be a dud IRL. Maybe it's too early and it started 31st of januari and it's 2 months now, which I guess can work... somehow, if april 1st has a new segment or match, but I fear that won't be the case based on several 3-month games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomnipotent Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 <p>TEW 2020 has all of the old problems and plenty of new ones.</p><p> </p><p> It's gonna be a hard pass.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donners Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 <p>I just tried it on patch 19.</p><p> </p><p> Easter and Tyler had four singles matches and a three-way match in three months, which is certainly an improvement. </p><p> </p><p> Brooke still won all five, though.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackman Posted May 12, 2020 Author Share Posted May 12, 2020 I just tried it on patch 19. Easter and Tyler had four singles matches and a three-way match in three months, which is certainly an improvement. Brooke still won all five, though. That's rough, but this is at least a possibility IRL. In my save they only had one match, so it seems you were just unlucky. It definitely improved, also the tag teams. I don't know if the popularity issue has been tackled, but that might be more complex as the AI seems to inflate the matches somehow, leading to unreal pop gains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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