More fun booking/writing midcard feuds?

[gord]

Anyone else enjoy writing your midcard feuds than the main event ones? The storylines involving up-and-coming workers always seem to come more naturally and are more fun.

 

For instance, I have a storyline in SWF where I resurrect the DAVE Unified title and have it fought under no-DQ rules. I have Eric Tyler come in and mentor Steven Parker to turn him into a bloodthirsty monster and have him take that title. I have almost the whole thing written out through Supreme Challenge. The Des Davids vs Lenny Brown was easy to plan out, as was John Greed creating a dark cult starring Scythe. I'll soon have one where Bret Starr leads a legacy stable with Matty Faith, SoVen, James Diaz and Dreadnought. Looking forward to that one.

 

I haven't written a thing on the Rogue vs Remo vs Valiant program, and only have a vague idea on where to go with Golden's title reign. I want to put Gilmore and Atom Smasher together but don't have a good idea for them (trying hard not to rip off Eisen-verse). The heavyweight title programs are almost always the ones I write last and really have to force something decent.

[The Nickman]

I'm the opposite. I seem to struggle with any storyline that doesn't have a title attached. Sometimes it can feel like a real slog to me, I need to be better at having an actual story when I book (a reason they're feuding), not just have two guys interfere in each other's business.

[Jama7301]

I like working down card myself. I like low stakes so I can mess around in less serious space. The main event should carry some gravitas, which I have trouble with

[LloydCross]

<p>It really just depends on who the workers/characters are. With people I'm invested in and feel like I understand and connect with I can work pretty much anywhere they are on the card.</p><p> </p><p>

Others, I really never get a feeling for and they end up just trading matches with someone, if that.</p>

[codey_v2]

<p>I have a ton of fun writing midcard feuds. There's something really freeing about not worrying about achieving the best rating possible to ensure company growth that I love. It lets me use wrestlers in fun storylines that I otherwise wouldn't because they're not "great." </p><p> </p><p>

Like in the attitude era, everyone on the show had at least some kind of story going. Even if it was silly there was some freedom to be had because those stories weren't going to mess with ratings when you had Austin/Rock/Mankind/Taker at the top of the card.</p>

[brat99]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="gord" data-cite="gord" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="49288" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Anyone else enjoy writing your midcard feuds than the main event ones? The storylines involving up-and-coming workers always seem to come more naturally and are more fun. <p> </p><p> For instance, I have a storyline in SWF where I resurrect the DAVE Unified title and have it fought under no-DQ rules. I have Eric Tyler come in and mentor Steven Parker to turn him into a bloodthirsty monster and have him take that title. I have almost the whole thing written out through Supreme Challenge.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Love this and may have to borrow it in some form for my game, In fact I was planning on bringing in Carl Batch to manage Primus Allen and that could work for the DaVE connection as well.</p><p> </p><p> I have a couple that I am enjoying planning at the moment. Crippler bringing in freshly un-retired Bryan Vessey and Buddy Garner along with future star Ernest Youngman as the Submission Squad, just running around and trying to injure whomever gets in their way.</p><p> </p><p> The second is more of a long term thing, but since I can hire international workers, bringing in Yuta Isono, Sumiyuki Samura, Takenori Doi, and Naizen Uboshita. They will all spend some time at RIPW to develop a little more, but will debut as an invading Japanese stable led by Isono and all managed by Uboshita as a Sonny Onoo type. Just got to figure out who to bring in as the muscle and the fall-guy.</p>

[RatedRKO16]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="The Nickman" data-cite="The Nickman" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="49288" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I'm the opposite. I seem to struggle with any storyline that doesn't have a title attached. Sometimes it can feel like a real slog to me, I need to be better at having an actual story when I book (a reason they're feuding), not just have two guys interfere in each other's business.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I have the same issue, because logically a feud doesnt make sense if you're not fighting for a title. 2 guys wrestling just because they don't like each other, but you know they both want the world championship.</p>

[adamhart39455]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="gord" data-cite="gord" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="49288" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Anyone else enjoy writing your midcard feuds than the main event ones? The storylines involving up-and-coming workers always seem to come more naturally and are more fun. <p> </p><p> For instance, I have a storyline in SWF where I resurrect the DAVE Unified title and have it fought under no-DQ rules. I have Eric Tyler come in and mentor Steven Parker to turn him into a bloodthirsty monster and have him take that title. I have almost the whole thing written out through Supreme Challenge. The Des Davids vs Lenny Brown was easy to plan out, as was John Greed creating a dark cult starring Scythe. I'll soon have one where Bret Starr leads a legacy stable with Matty Faith, SoVen, James Diaz and Dreadnought. Looking forward to that one.</p><p> </p><p> I haven't written a thing on the Rogue vs Remo vs Valiant program, and only have a vague idea on where to go with Golden's title reign. I want to put Gilmore and Atom Smasher together but don't have a good idea for them (trying hard not to rip off Eisen-verse). The heavyweight title programs are almost always the ones I write last and really have to force something decent.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> </p><p> so what is your idea for the Des Davids vs Lenny Brown fued. for Rocky Golden i immediately took the title off of him and put it on Scythe. my idea behind this is to build Scythe as an unstoppable monster and have Rocky Golden go off and have top notch matches with no string attached then eventually re-entering the main event scene just in time for his big rematch against scythe at The Supreme Challenge. Something unexpected happened though i put valiant in a short fued with scythe leading up the the second ppv and Scythe went over but Valiant is now perceived as a major star now in just under two months of gameplay.</p>

[gord]

so what is your idea for the Des Davids vs Lenny Brown fued.

 

Basically Davids says Brown has "weak-ass Hollywood blood" in him and he isn't tough enough to take the title from him (Brown has a Hollywood Cool gimmick). Davids defeats Brown at the January PPV.

 

ZWB wins #1 contender match but his title match is interrupted by a Brown attack on Davids - he attacked b/c of something personal Davids said about Brown. ZWB didn't like his title challenge getting interrupted so he attacks Brown later and they have a 3-way match at the February PPV.

 

Davids gets upset in non-title match in March so he defends the title the next week and beats down his opponent after the match, but Brown runs out for the save. Davids tells Brown if he wants one more shot, Davids wants to make it count and wants as few rules as possible getting in the way of beating his ass, so he proposes a no-DQ match. Brown accepts, Davids retains.

 

That's it. No idea who Davids takes on after that.

[Makhai]

I'm the opposite. I seem to struggle with any storyline that doesn't have a title attached. Sometimes it can feel like a real slog to me, I need to be better at having an actual story when I book (a reason they're feuding), not just have two guys interfere in each other's business.

 

The 7 story archetypes,

 

• Overcoming a Monster
  
• Rags to Riches
  
• The Quest
  
• Voyage and Return
  
• Comedy
  
• Tragedy
  
• Rebirth
  

 

Everyone has their favorites. But none of them require a title belt.

 

For example, Lets say you do a generic love triangle storyline... You have Babyface A - Turning Heel Manager - and Heel B.

 

Bog standard stuff, heel swoops in, Manager makes googly eyes. Well what are we gaining from this? Other than moving that manager from one person to another? Not much.

 

But during the feud, that is clearly going one way, you have that babyface cut a promo before the PPV, where he says "People think this is about me fighting for a partner, that I'm fighting for a prize. They ain't no prize, and they don't give one damn about my partner. Maybe one day they will see it too. I'm not fighting for that. I'm fighting because that person came into my yard, they locked eyes with me, and they took something that was mine because they thought they could. They think I have things for taking. That no receipt is due, and there is no price to be paid. I owe it to my partner, and myself to make them pay that full price, because a dog that you get for free, is a dog that is worthless and will be treated as such. My partner was my whole world. And at the PPV, they're going to get the full balance. And we'll find out if anyone will be taking something of mine, ever... again."

 

See how that changes the dynamic? That's because of character development. The dynamic usually is about the Babyface trying to win back his love interest, but now it's about a person fighting for his dignity. I find this much easier in the midcard simply because you have more people there, and they have much lower grade requirements. So that means you have more flexibility to book them.

[Makhai]

so what is your idea for the Des Davids vs Lenny Brown feud.

 

Davids is a meathead, Brown is a bright guy who is also a great athlete. Lots of things, you can have Brown charm a girl that Davids is eyeing. You can have Brown do something that Davids can't, but wants to do. You can have Davids miss out on being on the commentary team for a night, and Davids gets upset when he's told it's because he's not interesting enough. Anything that makes Davids jealous because that would be the fuel.

[The Nickman]

The 7 story archetypes,

 

• Overcoming a Monster
  
• Rags to Riches
  
• The Quest
  
• Voyage and Return
  
• Comedy
  
• Tragedy
  
• Rebirth
  

 

Everyone has their favorites. But none of them require a title belt.

 

For example, Lets say you do a generic love triangle storyline... You have Babyface A - Turning Heel Manager - and Heel B.

 

Bog standard stuff, heel swoops in, Manager makes googly eyes. Well what are we gaining from this? Other than moving that manager from one person to another? Not much.

 

But during the feud, that is clearly going one way, you have that babyface cut a promo before the PPV, where he says "People think this is about me fighting for a partner, that I'm fighting for a prize. They ain't no prize, and they don't give one damn about my partner. Maybe one day they will see it too. I'm not fighting for that. I'm fighting because that person came into my yard, they locked eyes with me, and they took something that was mine because they thought they could. They think I have things for taking. That no receipt is due, and there is no price to be paid. I owe it to my partner, and myself to make them pay that full price, because a dog that you get for free, is a dog that is worthless and will be treated as such. My partner was my whole world. And at the PPV, they're going to get the full balance. And we'll find out if anyone will be taking something of mine, ever... again."

 

See how that changes the dynamic? That's because of character development. The dynamic usually is about the Babyface trying to win back his love interest, but now it's about a person fighting for his dignity. I find this much easier in the midcard simply because you have more people there, and they have much lower grade requirements. So that means you have more flexibility to book them.

That's so cool. I need you booking ALL my stories.

[Remianen]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="RatedRKO16" data-cite="RatedRKO16" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="49288" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I have the same issue, because logically a feud doesnt make sense if you're not fighting for a title. 2 guys wrestling just because they don't like each other, but you know they both want the world championship.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Uh, what? In reality, has every fight you've ever been in (assuming you've been in a fight, that is) involved a title? At its core, conflict can arise from any of a myriad of things. Odysseus didn't fight because he wanted a title, he just wanted to go home ('The Quest', as Makhai pointed out). The title is a prop, it's meaningless in and of itself. If some dude spit in your mother's face, are you going to let that go just because there's no title on the line?</p><p> </p><p> Conflict exists for a wide variety of reasons, even beyond ideology. In a wrestling company, everyone should be striving to be the best. In (real) combat sports, the best person in each division is usually the champion. You can't make that assumption for pro wrestling (at least outside of Japan). Most people with multiple brain cells to rub together can see that the champion isn't always the person who is best at his/her job (wrestling). John Cena has never been a better wrestler than Daniel Bryan or AJ Styles, not for a single nanosecond of his life. So you fudge it and create strata that allow people to be 'the best' while not being the champion (Taker, for example) and you let people who are not 'the best' be champion for other reasons (dirty cheating heels, for example. Or 'powered by the crowd/kids' like Hogan and Cena). But people can still butt heads, just like rams. You don't have to have something physical for those conflicts to play out and reach their conclusion.</p><p> </p><p> On topic, my main event programs write themselves. With everyone trying to be the best, there's only one way to accomplish that: beat the best. People fight over respect (earning it and defending it), money, as well as the title(s). My midcard is where I can be a bit more expressive and experiment. I wouldn't say the stakes were lower though since, within two years of the start of the save, I can main event TV (and occasionally PPVs) with midcard matches and they get me the ratings I need to advance, primarily because of that experimentation. But my primary focus is typically to develop talent and that's best done in the midcard.</p>

[merrykieran2]

I have this issue sort of. I get really invested in a midcarder or a midcard storyline and then try to promote it to the main event feud which then ends up becoming more of the same. Midcard allows you to do more wacky things and allows you to really explore while your main event needs to be more rigid unless you have no risk of losing pop on the show

[Zeel1]

I'm sorta this but mostly because my favorite thing is the slow rise. I really love seeing someone go from the very bottom of the card all the way up to the top, ideally over the span of a year or so. I think this stems from the fact that I first got into wrestling by playing the Day of Reckoning games where you begin as a house show hopeful and work your way up to dark matches, then B Shows, before being a prime time wrestler going after titles and eventually world champion.

 

I love getting that same sense from TEW so in that way I can actually be a lot more invested in the lower carders. The main eventers are great to have and I can do interesting stuff with them too, but I guess the way I look at it, they've kinda completed their story already in a lot of cases.

[Tom Bombadil]

For some reason I think I'm the other way around- I find it easier to work with my top couple storylines than the rest of the card, be it midcarders, a women's division, or whatever else. I'm wondering if it's because undercarders get less time on shows, or maybe I got too used to repetitive WWE midcard booking.

[DarK_RaideR]

I like working down card myself. I like low stakes so I can mess around in less serious space. The main event should carry some gravitas, which I have trouble with

I find this easiest when booking Japanese promotions, where wrestling is treated as a sport. Everyone across the card is trying to be the best and by spreading title matches over time, you end up with them being a big deal solely due to their rarity. Spend some time building up the journey too, like having someone survive a gruelling tournament to even get a title shot and then even getting a shot becomes a big deal, win or lose.

 

See how that changes the dynamic? That's because of character development. The dynamic usually is about the Babyface trying to win back his love interest, but now it's about a person fighting for his dignity.

That is textbook stuff. That's what makes characters relatable or hateable, what makes a win or loss matter.

[Polaris]

It is a mixed bag for me. On one end, the midcard is normally where I want to work with those who didn't get the push (I play RW mods). However, I also can't ignore the main event scene. Fun either way.

[Dave E Mac]

Uh, what? In reality, has every fight you've ever been in (assuming you've been in a fight, that is) involved a title? At its core, conflict can arise from any of a myriad of things. Odysseus didn't fight because he wanted a title, he just wanted to go home ('The Quest', as Makhai pointed out). The title is a prop, it's meaningless in and of itself. If some dude spit in your mother's face, are you going to let that go just because there's no title on the line?

 

Conflict exists for a wide variety of reasons, even beyond ideology. In a wrestling company, everyone should be striving to be the best. In (real) combat sports, the best person in each division is usually the champion. You can't make that assumption for pro wrestling (at least outside of Japan). Most people with multiple brain cells to rub together can see that the champion isn't always the person who is best at his/her job (wrestling). John Cena has never been a better wrestler than Daniel Bryan or AJ Styles, not for a single nanosecond of his life. So you fudge it and create strata that allow people to be 'the best' while not being the champion (Taker, for example) and you let people who are not 'the best' be champion for other reasons (dirty cheating heels, for example. Or 'powered by the crowd/kids' like Hogan and Cena). But people can still butt heads, just like rams. You don't have to have something physical for those conflicts to play out and reach their conclusion.

 

On topic, my main event programs write themselves. With everyone trying to be the best, there's only one way to accomplish that: beat the best. People fight over respect (earning it and defending it), money, as well as the title(s). My midcard is where I can be a bit more expressive and experiment. I wouldn't say the stakes were lower though since, within two years of the start of the save, I can main event TV (and occasionally PPVs) with midcard matches and they get me the ratings I need to advance, primarily because of that experimentation. But my primary focus is typically to develop talent and that's best done in the midcard.

 

All of this. In many ways I struggle to book title feuds. As it always boils down to just “I want your title”. Booking things outside of a title makes things that bit more interesting. The motivations can be anything you want rather than just a belt around the waist, that’s what I like.