New Overness Rules

[xXUnderGroundXx]

I HATE the lack of pushes for wrestlers! I got a 32 rating on my main event angle because quote "nothing interesting" happened in it, whereas in 2016 that exact same angle would've EASILY pulled down an A or A*. I think it's because I had some unimportant wrestlers involved, but I don't really know, because the game seems entirely arbitrary in who can go where and why. Was it really so complicated having Main Eventers, Upper Mids, Midcard, et cetera? Seems to me that it made things much easier in terms of card organization and which wrestlers would be good choices for which angles.

 

Could we maybe get a patch that adds in that feature optionally for people who want it? I know it's probably a pipe dream, the infrastructure of the two games is just too different, but I'm so frustrated I just needed to get this out. On the whole it's a fun experience, and I so BADLY want to like it better than TEW2016, but it's just...well, frustrating, as I said.

[Bonafide_Bluffa]

its because you based the angle on passive stats. overness, sex appeal, menace, star q. base it on somehting like entertainment or fighting

[moafnsteel]

I HATE the lack of pushes for wrestlers! I got a 32 rating on my main event angle because quote "nothing interesting" happened in it, whereas in 2016 that exact same angle would've EASILY pulled down an A or A*. I think it's because I had some unimportant wrestlers involved, but I don't really know, because the game seems entirely arbitrary in who can go where and why. Was it really so complicated having Main Eventers, Upper Mids, Midcard, et cetera? Seems to me that it made things much easier in terms of card organization and which wrestlers would be good choices for which angles.

 

Could we maybe get a patch that adds in that feature optionally for people who want it? I know it's probably a pipe dream, the infrastructure of the two games is just too different, but I'm so frustrated I just needed to get this out. On the whole it's a fun experience, and I so BADLY want to like it better than TEW2016, but it's just...well, frustrating, as I said.

 

The game definitely takes some getting used to. The nothing interesting note is because you have people rated on passive skills (overness, charisma, sex appeal, menace, and I am probably forgetting one) for more than 4 minutes which designs the segment as it's essentially the fans looking at workers standing there doing nothing. At least one worker needs to be rated on something like Microphone, Entertainment, fighting, and I think acting but I am really not sure about acting.

 

Extra information is in the handbook too. The handbook is a very daunting read, but has some really helpful information. I hope this helps

[moafnsteel]

its because you based the angle on passive stats. overness, sex appeal, menace, star q. base it on somehting like entertainment or fighting

 

How dare you snipe me taking all that time to type out what I did, when you did it in such few words lol

[Bonafide_Bluffa]

lmao! sorry dude i've just answered that q way too many times here

[xXUnderGroundXx]

Well, first of all, thank you both for your replies; that's helpful, I'll definitely keep it in mind going forward. However, it does raise a further question: WHY THE $%@#* IS THAT A FEATURE?!

[moafnsteel]

Well, first of all, thank you both for your replies; that's helpful, I'll definitely keep it in mind going forward. However, it does raise a further question: WHY THE $%@#* IS THAT A FEATURE?!

 

I have abused the crap out of the overness and menace angles in the past, but it is a lot more realistic that people don't want to see workers standing around doing nothing, I think that's why it is in the game. Also probably because so many of us abused the hell out of it lol

[Bonafide_Bluffa]

i mean, it makes sense. a worker being rated on menace for 10 mins means that they'd just be standing around doing a whole lotta nothing. i'm guilty of abusing 10 min menace angles in my games as well but i really like the new system. it also makes managers a whole lot more useful.

[xXUnderGroundXx]

<p>Okay, sure, yes, all of that is fair. But it also completely kills the realism of things like surprise debuts or the Mega Powers becoming a thing. Unless he's ALSO removed the penalty for short angles, which I don't believe he did, we're basically hamstrung into always making someone cut a promo, even when that wouldn't necessarily fit the story we're trying to tell.</p><p> </p><p>

I also dispute that an angle involving saving someone from a 5-on-1 beatdown ISN'T rated on Entertainent or fighting or anything, but that's more a fault of the design of the mod I'm using than anything else.</p>

[FlippantFox]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="xXUnderGroundXx" data-cite="xXUnderGroundXx" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="49766" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Okay, sure, yes, all of that is fair. But it also completely kills the realism of things like surprise debuts or the Mega Powers becoming a thing. Unless he's ALSO removed the penalty for short angles, which I don't believe he did, we're basically hamstrung into always making someone cut a promo, even when that wouldn't necessarily fit the story we're trying to tell.<p> </p><p> I also dispute that an angle involving saving someone from a 5-on-1 beatdown ISN'T rated on Entertainent or fighting or anything, but that's more a fault of the design of the mod I'm using than anything else.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I've run multiple short angles based on overness. If they're over enough, the penalty shouldn't be too bad.</p>

[AceCodey]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="xXUnderGroundXx" data-cite="xXUnderGroundXx" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="49766" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Okay, sure, yes, all of that is fair. But it also completely kills the realism of things like surprise debuts or the Mega Powers becoming a thing. </div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Why? </p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="49766" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Unless he's ALSO removed the penalty for short angles, which I don't believe he did, we're basically hamstrung into always making someone cut a promo, even when that wouldn't necessarily fit the story we're trying to tell.<p> </p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I'd disagree. Acting/Mic/Entertainment/Fighting/Selling all cover a LOT of possibilities. </p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="49766" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I also dispute that an angle involving saving someone from a 5-on-1 beatdown ISN'T rated on Entertainent or fighting or anything, but that's more a fault of the design of the mod I'm using than anything else.<p> </p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Not to sound like an ass, but I'm a bit confused about what you mean here. Could you clarify?</p>

[Sons of Kohral]

We all need to get over the fact that the Menace/Menace strategy isn't going to work anymore.

[DeathZone2]

We all need to get over the fact that the Menace/Menace strategy isn't going to work anymore.

 

It's strange that it doesn't tho. Like IRL Braun Strowman got monster over entirely on Menace angles. He destroyed stuff, looked scary and the crowd got behind them. SQ and Overness getting dinged I get. But Menace and SA getting dinged doesn't make sense to me. Sable was one of the most over people in the WWF in 98, entirely on Sex Appeal.

[Self]

It's strange that it doesn't tho. Like IRL Braun Strowman got monster over entirely on Menace angles. He destroyed stuff, looked scary and the crowd got behind them. SQ and Overness getting dinged I get. But Menace and SA getting dinged doesn't make sense to me. Sable was one of the most over people in the WWF in 98, entirely on Sex Appeal.

 

But they weren't out there by themselves, just being scary/sexy. Braun was being scary... but there was also Bray Wyatt talking or someone fighting to keep things interesting at the same time. Sable was being sexy... while Marc Mero was fighting or Jerry Lawler was going bananas officiating the bikini contest. Or the angle was a 1 minute feat of strength/striptease.

 

I'm building Canadian Crusher in my current C-Verse game. In TEW'16 I could just send him out solo, but in TEW'20 it's more effective to have him alongside Joey Poison, who is over and can talk and keep the segment interesting. It's the same idea, more realistically presented.

[Teh_Showtime]

It's strange that it doesn't tho. Like IRL Braun Strowman got monster over entirely on Menace angles. He destroyed stuff, looked scary and the crowd got behind them. SQ and Overness getting dinged I get. But Menace and SA getting dinged doesn't make sense to me. Sable was one of the most over people in the WWF in 98, entirely on Sex Appeal.

 

But those segments weren’t ONLY based on menace. If he’s brawling with Roman Reigns, Reigns is fighting. If he’s killing Sami Zayn, Zayn is selling. These would never be penalized because those are active attributes.

 

Even Brock Lesnar, Heyman is talking for 40 minutes while Brock stands there. That’s viable in game too. The thing is solo menace angles are still viable as well, just not long ones. You can have someone destroy their opponent after the match, but instead of doing it for 6 minutes, make it 4 or lower.

[JP317]

Okay, sure, yes, all of that is fair. But it also completely kills the realism of things like surprise debuts or the Mega Powers becoming a thing. Unless he's ALSO removed the penalty for short angles, which I don't believe he did, we're basically hamstrung into always making someone cut a promo, even when that wouldn't necessarily fit the story we're trying to tell.

 

I also dispute that an angle involving saving someone from a 5-on-1 beatdown ISN'T rated on Entertainent or fighting or anything, but that's more a fault of the design of the mod I'm using than anything else.

 

If you are refering to the original angle where Savage and Hogan shake hands after Liz brings Hogan out to help then either you are going to have an angle that also includes fighting and selling as there is a beatdown from Honky and the Hart Foundation or you'd split it up and the actual handshake would be like 1-2 minutes top and that shouldn't get dinged for being rated on overness. It'd still get a limited result if it went for 1-2 minutes but that would be on the player that split the angle up's choice to make.

 

I've also been trying to think of a surprise debut that doesn't involve either someone talking or fighting, even if it's not the debuter, that lasted more than a couple of minutes.

 

As for the saving on a from 5 on 1 beatdown, quite a few of the old angles haven't been properly updated as that should be the 5 rated on fighting, the 1 rated on selling and the saver(s) rated on fighting (if they fight them off), you could rate them on overness if they just run to the ring with weapons to scare them off or menace if they are some big monster that scares them off. Either way the fact that some angles, and if you are playing a mod that just convered angles from 2016 it'd change from some to all angles I guess, are outdated seems to be the reason that more people, from what I can gather, are using freestyle angles.

[xXUnderGroundXx]

See, that's sort of what I'm getting at here. Don't penalize angles rated solely on Overness when HALF THE ANGLES IN THE BLOODY GAME ARE RATED SOLELY ON OVERNESS! Now I'm basically going to have to go through my list piece by piece and change them all, which I don't mind doing, but I shouldn't HAVE to.

 

That's what I meant by what I said, @AceyCodey, BTW; to clarify, I'm a little miffed that a "Beatdown" angle is rated on overness and therefore boring, when in reality there'd be plenty of fighting involved. Just something of a disconnect between WANTING to make the game more realistic and ACTUALLY making it more realistic, IMO. It's a great idea on paper that I feel failed in the execution.

[praguepride]

You shouldn't use the default angles as anything other than inspiration like the gimmicks. They're legacies of past editions but you should do 90% of your angles as freestyle so you can tweak them.

 

 

Use Freestyle so you can fine tune what each worker is doing but if you need an idea of WHAT is happening, copy it over from the angle library.

[Irish Wolf]

You shouldn't use the default angles as anything other than inspiration like the gimmicks. They're legacies of past editions but you should do 90% of your angles as freestyle so you can tweak them.

 

 

Use Freestyle so you can fine tune what each worker is doing but if you need an idea of WHAT is happening, copy it over from the angle library.

 

People use something other than freestyle angles? I mean as soon as freestyle angles were an option I never looked back? Even in 2015 when we could make out own angles - not exactly freestyle but hey - I never used default angles. I have to say I'm honestly shocked people are using anything other than freestyle angles.

[The Nickman]

Yeah, the default angles are genuinely at fault here because about 90% of them are wrong. They really should be just deleted from the game. I’m with apupunchao on this one, I literally never use default angles anymore, particularly seeing as the new angle booking system is so much faster.

 

But as for the new “rated on” system for angles, it makes perfect sense and is much better implemented than the previous system. Overness (and to an extent menace and sex appeal) were both attributes you could spam in previous versions of the game when in reality, the worker is just standing there.

 

Having to book SOMEBODY in the angle either fighting or talking or acting is intuitively so much better once you get your head around it, and like the perception and gimmick systems, I certainly couldn’t go back to the way TEW2016 works.

[praguepride]

Yeah. They're there because the writing in them is really good but their "rated on" is a mess because it harkens back to the original 2005 TEW where you had like two choices: Entertainment or Overness.

 

Overness is just popping for the name. When Stone Cold's music played and the crowd goes nuts, that is rating on Overness. It's great for when a worker just appears for the classic "stare down", it's great for a hype or highlight reel. It is being rated on their "name value"

 

Entertainment is them cutting a promo. Talking about something in general.

 

Fighting is a good brawl. All those "backstage ambush" should be rated on Fighting if it's an even fight. Fighting means they're getting some good punches in.

 

Microphone is one I use rarely but in theory it's a segment where it is just their mic skills. No body language, no charisma to pump up the crowd. I have seen this used for "interview" segments where one person is just holding the mic and asking questions.

 

Charisma is where there isn't a mic involved. When a worker showboats inside the ring up on the turnbuckles but nobody can hear what they are saying but just getting swept up in their passion that is raw Charisma.

 

Acting is another one I rarely use. I would imagine it's for things like faking an injury. All angles are "acting" but this is specifically selling something outside of the ring. Fake injuries, fake crying, that kind of stuff. If a worker has to act sad because their fake girlfriend dumped them, that's acting. If Vince McMahon has to fake a foot injury, that's acting (until Stone Cold beats him over the head with a bedpan and then it's selling).

 

Selling is getting smashed. If a worker is just getting destroyed, that's selling.

 

Star Quality is the male version of sex appeal. I rarely use it because it doesn't come up much but if they're just looking at a picture of a guy and saying "wow! he looks amazing!" I could see it. If a guy goes into the middle and flexes his muscles, that's SQ. The difference I think is Charisma is about engaging the crowd and firing the crowd up while Star Quality is just "look at me!"

 

Sex Appeal: Duh. Looking sexy.

 

Menace: Looking mean. For a "backstage ambush" if it's an even fight, everyone is Fighting. If it's a classic "Monster Destroy" then it is Menace vs. Selling. Menace is also looking mean next to someone doing the talking.

 

 

I hope that clears everything up.

[Self]

See, that's sort of what I'm getting at here. Don't penalize angles rated solely on Overness when HALF THE ANGLES IN THE BLOODY GAME ARE RATED SOLELY ON OVERNESS! Now I'm basically going to have to go through my list piece by piece and change them all, which I don't mind doing, but I shouldn't HAVE to.

 

Absolutely agree with you on this. The game should not have been released with a main database that isnf comparable with how the game works. Sloppy.

 

Even if most experienced players use freestyle angles, not everyone does.

[BiggN]

I know i'm probably in a minority here, but man those freestyle angles are just boring. Maybe boring is the wrong word. Back in 2011 I think it was? 2013? I wrote a ton of angles for TEW. But now with Freestyle I don't bother, I just use freestyle for everything because i'm lazy.

 

The Freestyle angles are like McDonalds for me now, super easy to use but doesn't taste as good as creating a great angle.

[AceCodey]

See, that's sort of what I'm getting at here. Don't penalize angles rated solely on Overness when HALF THE ANGLES IN THE BLOODY GAME ARE RATED SOLELY ON OVERNESS! Now I'm basically going to have to go through my list piece by piece and change them all, which I don't mind doing, but I shouldn't HAVE to.

 

That's what I meant by what I said, @AceyCodey, BTW; to clarify, I'm a little miffed that a "Beatdown" angle is rated on overness and therefore boring, when in reality there'd be plenty of fighting involved. Just something of a disconnect between WANTING to make the game more realistic and ACTUALLY making it more realistic, IMO. It's a great idea on paper that I feel failed in the execution.

 

Oh okay I get you. Just to clarify, that's an issue with the CVerse itself (a REALLY sloppy issue, to be honest) but it's 100% down to the database, not the actual mechanics of how the game works.

[xXUnderGroundXx]

Absolutely agree with you on this. The game should not have been released with a main database that isnf comparable with how the game works. Sloppy.

 

Even if most experienced players use freestyle angles, not everyone does.

 

Thank you, glad to see I'm not totally alone on this, lol. I definitely should be using Freestyle angles, I've been playing long enough, but since most of the default angles in the game usually suited my needs, I never really felt compelled to do so. I suppose there's no better time to learn, though!

 

Really, though, all I wanted to say is that I'm disappointed the mod-makers (and Adam to some extent, but he has more than enough on his plate, I don't fault him for it) didn't take the extra hour or so it would take just to make sure all the segments in the game are compatible with how the new overhauled ranking system works. But these things happen, no game is perfect; I'll get the hang of it, it's just frustrating when it's not expected.