Can I ask a serious question?

[xXUnderGroundXx]

I'm honestly not trying to start a fight, I'm just legitimately curious; I so often see Adam introduce changes to stop "exploits" that players can use to do things like increase their company's size too quickly, or gain money/popularity too quickly, etc. ...Why does it matter? I understand balance changes, so AI companies aren't too powerful or too weak compared to player-controlled ones, but beyond that...why does he give a rat's ass how we choose to play? TEW is a predominantly single-player game, it's not as if there are competitive e-sports leagues for this, so why do exploits that benefit the player and don't break anything matter? Not everyone will choose to play that way, and for those who do; so what? This is a GAME, it's about HAVING FUN. Why limit the ways in which we can do that because of some pre-conceived notion about how your game is "supposed" to be played? It's like saying "your fun is wrong", like those awful gatekeepy D&D communities who rag on players who don't use encumbrance rules or what have you. At the end of the day, we're all just trying to have a good time, so why does it matter how we do that? We're only hurting ourselves, after all.

[edenborn]

You don't use encumbrance rules?

 

Seriously, though, I'm more or less in agreement with this. As long as the AI is behaving realistically (to the extent that's possible), allowing players to "game the system" doesn't strike me as that much of a big deal. If someone wants to play cheaply and exploit the game, that's something of a self-inflicted wound. Like cheating in Monopoly -- you can do it, though it defeats the purpose of the game. On the other hand, I can appreciate how as a game designer, you're setting a certain challenge level, and may not want players taking advantage of unintended exploits.

[praguepride]

1) The finances/constant schedule/PPV stuff that is the hot topic right now is broken for the AI as well. ANY promotion be it human or AI that switched to constant schedule strapped a rocket to themselves and shot for the moon. It was so broken that 0-pop dev feds run by the AI on a constant schedule were one of the largest feds in the game world within 2 years.

 

2) Some players want a bit of challenge. Right now finances are way too easy where even not being exploitative like running constant schedule there is almost no challenge once you get on the right broadcaster.

 

 

There are plenty of ways to cut corners and cheat the game, it's called the editor, however for the rest of us we'd prefer a game that was more challenging and more realistic in terms of growth and gains.

[Sons of Kohral]

Yeah, you don't really need to use "exploits" you can always use the in game editor to change stuff. So making a harder "base game" while retaining the in game editor allows both fantasy bookers and people who want to play realistically, and those in between to be happy.

[edenborn]

By the same token, along with the editor there's the ability to disable many of the challenges via options: no repetitive booking penalty, etc.

 

Speaking personally, I'd much prefer a game that's more difficult than what we currently have. However, with each added layer of challenge, I see no problem with allowing players the option of getting around it one way or another.

[Kijar]

Tis a sandbox game, so I can understand you thinking the rules don't matter. Hell, I play without strict storylines on and give myself a sandbox amount of money so I'm no bettah.

 

But, I guess I'd say for the "why not?" is.. a lot of people like to play games by the rules, how they should play out, be fully encompassed, and whatnot.. There is reason to see why people wouldn't want anything to be (for lack of a better term) "broken." The worst case scenario for these players is accidentally being stuck in a game where they know something that damaged the game's integrity has happened.

 

I personally don't mind at all, but alas, am not the only one who plays the game.

[Makhai]

Yeah, you don't really need to use "exploits" you can always use the in game editor to change stuff. So making a harder "base game" while retaining the in game editor allows both fantasy bookers and people who want to play realistically, and those in between to be happy.

 

This has always been the road I want. Make it very realistic, for those that want that experience, and let fantasy bookers use the editor to give themselves infinite money so they can play their way.

[LoganRodzen]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Sons of Kohral" data-cite="Sons of Kohral" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="50648" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Yeah, you don't really need to use "exploits" you can always use the in game editor to change stuff. So making a harder "base game" while retaining the in game editor allows both fantasy bookers and people who want to play realistically, and those in between to be happy.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> The in-game editor is severely hindered in this edition of TEW though and many people have brought that up. Basic things you used to be able to change aren't possible anymore. </p><p> </p><p> Sorry to beat a dead horse but it's like the whole "Time Decline" thing being blamed on lazy, brain-dead play... when the entire "Creative" menu could be defined as that. Guys are showing up old and you fire them? Nope, you can't do that because you need to actively look for time decline. But if you want a list of 5 guys you should sign, there you have it, no reason you should have to actively recruit people... or actively look for your best talkers or ring generals, etc.</p><p> </p><p> If you want to remove features or change stuff, go for it, but at least give a better explanation.</p>

[Donners]

<p>If it's an exploit which:</p><p>

1) The AI can use; and/or</p><p>

2) The player can inadvertently use by playing the game normally</p><p>

then it absolutely should be patched. Otherwise, people can find their games completely thrown out of whack, which is jarring and frustrating.</p><p> </p><p>

The game is easy by default, and there are plenty of options to make it easier for those who want to. There's no reason to leave those sort of game-breaking exploits in when they can ruin the experience for players.</p>

[wolfwwe]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Sons of Kohral" data-cite="Sons of Kohral" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="50648" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Yeah, you don't really need to use "exploits" you can always use the in game editor to change stuff. So making a harder "base game" while retaining the in game editor allows both fantasy bookers and people who want to play realistically, and those in between to be happy.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> For me, the reason I ever use the in-game editor is to make it more realistic because i see an obvious flaw in the mod i'm using.</p>

[Ghost of Benji]

A lot of people report these exploits in the Suggestions forum, requesting to get them changed. So Adam gives the people what they want, as any dev would. I think the main issue TEW is facing is that of an identity crisis; it happens to lend itself relatively well to a number of different ways to play, so the playerbase consists of varying play styles. So when TEW picks one play style over the others, there will be dissatisfied customers, inevitably.

[Self]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="xXUnderGroundXx" data-cite="xXUnderGroundXx" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="50648" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>TEW is a predominantly single-player game, it's not as if there are competitive e-sports leagues for this, so why do exploits that benefit the player and don't break anything matter?</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> In any single player game, if I find a win button that makes every other strategy obsolete, that's a bad, unbalanced game. Not worth playing. </p><p> </p><p> The goal with the change (I hope) was not to remove constant schedules or multiple annual events per month, but to make them a choice like any other. To give them negatives<span style="text-decoration:underline;"> and</span> positives. Benefits and drawbacks. Bonuses and penalties. Like every other strategy or choice should have. You are not prohibited from exploring the benefits of that schedule (wrestlers improve faster) but now you're going to face diminishing returns in other aspects.</p>

[Ghost of Benji]

I do feel that if a strategy is not viable in real life - such as something like running a pay per view every day of the month - it's absolutely fair to make it not viable in TEW. There isn't really an argument to be made for making a non-real life viable strat viable in TEW because then TEW fails at its purpose of being a wrestling world simulator.

[ngz999]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="LoganRodzen" data-cite="LoganRodzen" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="50648" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>The in-game editor is severely hindered in this edition of TEW though and many people have brought that up. Basic things you used to be able to change aren't possible anymore. </div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Like what? Genuine question, I don't know.</p>

[Ghost of Benji]

Like what? Genuine question, I don't know.

You can't change the in-game status of a worker anymore. In 2016, you can set people in and out of business, hiatus, retirement, etc. This was removed from 2020.

[ngz999]

You can't change the in-game status of a worker anymore. In 2016, you can set people in and out of business, hiatus, retirement, etc. This was removed from 2020.

 

That's terrible.

 

I remember in WMMA I used to be able to kill workers from the editor so I could simulate deathfights. That was removed too.

 

Seems like these games are becoming less and less of a sandbox.

[D-Lyrium]

If it's an exploit which:

1) The AI can use; and/or

2) The player can inadvertently use by playing the game normally

then it absolutely should be patched. Otherwise, people can find their games completely thrown out of whack, which is jarring and frustrating.

 

The game is easy by default, and there are plenty of options to make it easier for those who want to. There's no reason to leave those sort of game-breaking exploits in when they can ruin the experience for players.

 

This, to me, is the main point.

 

Exploits that can be 'abused' without really knowing they're exploits, are IMO bugs. For instance, the constant schedule issue. If you're running a constant schedule and have four annual events per month, you might not consider it an exploit. You might just assume you're doing really well and gaining huge amounts of pop and money. It's not the player's fault in that situation, it's the game's fault. So it should definitely be fixed.

 

Exploits, IMO, are things like constantly using Sam Keith in MAW angles to artificially increase storyline heat. Or constantly spamming guys like John Cena/The Undertaker on WWE shows to get artificially inflated ratings. There's nothing "wrong" with doing that, it's not a problem that needs to be fixed.

 

But if you're using an 'exploit' that isn't supposed to be in the game (like running four "annual" events per month and enjoying much more pop gain and income than someone running four weekly events per month), that is a problem that shouldn't exist and needs to be fixed.

[SilentDeath]

My enthusiasm to play this game has severely waned to the point I'm back on TEW2016. I don't know what it is but it's been difficult for me to get into this years game. I understand the game is a simulator and always has been, but at the same time its still a game at the end of the day. I use to be able to have my serious saves and my bs saves where I'd just game the system and sometimes my "gamey" saves would end up being more fun eventually. This year I feel like all saves are pretty much the same. Yes I can give myself money and edit pop and whatnot...but that is unfulfilling for me personally as I'd rather gain the pop myself no matter what means I take to get there. I feel that TEW has catered in a way more towards the serious player with this iteration of the game which I suppose is fine, but in the past it felt that it was more even between the two playstyles.

 

Maybe I'm just rambling on and at the same time I haven't been able to get past the first six month's in many saves so maybe there are things I'm missing. I currently have a serious save with MAW and a gamey save with a custom fed, but the gamey save is pretty much bleh. Maybe I'll deep dive in the settings again.

[Ghost of Benji]

Yeah, it was either one of the dev team guys or the graphics dude who said that the "people complaining wanted TEW 2016 with a new coat of paint, instead of a new game", and while this comment was meant as a derogatory remark to insult, discredit, and put down the negative people, I have to say that in my case it's actually a true statement. I think I just wanted TEW 2016 with a few new features to freshen up the game. The game that ended up happening is a more ambitious project for sure, and I applaud that. But I don't think it's for me. Others seem to enjoy it, though, and I'm glad. Maybe I'm the problem.

[SilentDeath]

Yeah, it was either one of the dev team guys or the graphics dude who said that the "people complaining wanted TEW 2016 with a new coat of paint, instead of a new game", and while this comment was meant as a derogatory remark to insult, discredit, and put down the negative people, I have to say that in my case it's actually a true statement. I think I just wanted TEW 2016 with a few new features to freshen up the game. The game that ended up happening is a more ambitious project for sure, and I applaud that. But I don't think it's for me. Others seem to enjoy it, though, and I'm glad. Maybe I'm the problem.

 

I feel we are kindred spirts trapped on a sinking ship . There are a lot of new things about the new game that are great. My only issue is I feel people who have a gamey playstyle is at a disadvantage. This game is just garnered towards the serious "book it right" kind of players which is fine. Like I said I have some saves where I play like that, but why penalize the people who play in an unrealistic way. The game dictates the fun some people are allowed to have. Maybe I'm part of the problem too Benji, but what can we do

 

Edit: The sinking ship is in regards to players who prefer 2016, a gamey playstyle, players stuck in the past, etc. Didn't want people thinking I was referring to the franchise as a sinking ship.

[Ghost of Benji]

I think it's fair to look at things from Adam's perspective, though: people who are happy never say anything, so it's only the people who have things to complain about that post on the Suggestions forum. So all Adam had to go by when designing a new game were the people who complained about the "gamey" playstyles. The people who liked these things never said anything during 2016's life cycle because they, obviously, had nothing to complain about.

[CashBowels]

Yeah, you don't really need to use "exploits" you can always use the in game editor to change stuff. So making a harder "base game" while retaining the in game editor allows both fantasy bookers and people who want to play realistically, and those in between to be happy.

 

"Added blocks to stop people causing game-breaking financial values by maxing out money through the editor and then buying out multiple other companies"

 

From the most recent patch, this is an example of Adam making a change to the in-game editor. Sure you can consider this to be an "exploit" but if a player is using the editor to give themselves a liquid injection of money for casual playing, why is this such a problem given this is supposed to be a single-player experience. This is literally eliminating the freedom of the in-game editor which should exist to give more of a controllable sandbox feeling.

 

As a casual player, this change really bothers me.

[Jaded]

"Added blocks to stop people causing game-breaking financial values by maxing out money through the editor and then buying out multiple other companies"

 

From the most recent patch, this is an example of Adam making a change to the in-game editor. Sure you can consider this to be an "exploit" but if a player is using the editor to give themselves a liquid injection of money for casual playing, why is this such a problem given this is supposed to be a single-player experience. This is literally eliminating the freedom of the in-game editor which should exist to give more of a controllable sandbox feeling.

 

As a casual player, this change really bothers me.

 

Isn't the key word here 'game-breaking'? I believe if you end up with 1000 million dollars or more, the game stops working as it can't handle it

[Teh_Showtime]

I’m pretty sure that glitch was the result of putting the AI at max negative money to buy them out and it was causing an overflow crash.

[CashBowels]

Isn't the key word here 'game-breaking'? I believe if you end up with 1000 million dollars or more, the game stops working as it can't handle it

 

The game doesn't allow you to have more than 900 million. Anything more will just tell you that it's above the max value allowed and it won't add the value.

 

From the wording of the patch (which to be fair, I have not played) I can only infer that the max value which is 900 million has been lowered for "balancing" reasons but the point is that if I am choosing to use the in-game editor to give me that much money, balance is is the last thing on my mind.

 

If I am wrong then someone feel free to point it out.