Does the AI ignore low experience/popularity workers?

TheJG · November 16, 2020

I play TEW 2016, but the AI are awful at building up non-established workers. I thought this was a well known "feature" for the TEW series?

It's got to the point where in historical mods I artificially bump the popularity of workers who don't work for me, otherwise nothing ever changes.

Scott Zodiac · November 16, 2020

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Ben Nook" data-cite="Ben Nook" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="52201" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Wow that is insane, I have never patched my game from 1.15 because of multiple nerfs that I don’t agree with and from the sounds of it I never will. Since 1.15 company growth, worker growth and new gen strength have all been nerfed according to patch notes, and honestly the only patch note since then I’d actually want is the slight increase of popularity caps but honestly I can just deal with that. At least I can get guys up to 50-60 pop in only a couple of months.</div></blockquote> You can adjust the natural growth cap in the options, but I assumed it was only for Company popularity growth, rather than workers. I thought it may have been due to the worker I’m trying to build up being insignificant in angles; I kept getting the ‘didn’t look good out there’ road agent note on the angles. Just done another 100 angle with somebody well known in a 100 angle. On-screen rated on entertainment and they went up 1 pop in two regions on my home area (and not even in the region I ran the show). I don’t know what to do any more. The first guy I’m trying to build up has a record of 18-1-5 since joining me but has cooled momentum. I may just save and put him over all of my top guys in successive weeks just to see how much that helps or makes any difference whatsoever.

gazwefc83 · November 16, 2020

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Adam Ryland" data-cite="Adam Ryland" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="52201" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>To clarify, there's absolutely no difference between a "yet to debut" worker and anyone else from the game's perspective, so it's physically impossible for their to be any bias against signing them in particular. Therefore if you're not seeing them signed, it's because they're being rated as less valuable than the other free agents. TEW is designed to run as a pyramid system where young workers learn their trade in small companies / on the independent scene to gain skill, experience and popularity, then build to the point where they can get signed by bigger companies to gain even more pop, then end up in the biggest companies. From the sound of it you've likely either got a weak independent scene (i.e. not enough companies, meaning not enough places for the workers to learn their trade, meaning they will never get the skill / experience / popularity to be attractive to bigger companies), the low-level independent scene has been flooded with too many workers for the number of companies available (i.e. meaning there aren't enough spots open on low-level company rosters for them to work and gain those traits), or a combination of both. Bear in mind that companies, of course, have maximum roster sizes, so if you've got far more free agents than roster spots, a lot of people are naturally going to end up sitting around doing nothing.</div></blockquote> This was Adams responce, so I added 6 more tony companies but it never made a difference. One final test, i created 'TEST MAN' a 20 year old wrestling with 30 popularity, 15 experience and 100 in every other skill. If he doesn't get signed up, then there is a definite problem with the game.

Sprout1883 · November 16, 2020

How are organic companies supposed to work/happen then?

If they arent generated by having spare workers, what triggers them?

gazwefc83 · November 16, 2020

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Sprout1883" data-cite="Sprout1883" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="52201" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>How are organic companies supposed to work/happen then? If they arent generated by having spare workers, what triggers them?</div></blockquote> I believe spare workers do trigger them, what makes you think they don't?

Sprout1883 · November 16, 2020

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="gazwefc83" data-cite="gazwefc83" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="52201" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I believe spare workers do trigger them, what makes you think they don't?</div></blockquote> Adams response threw me. He is suggesting there arent enough low level companies for workers to work and gain pop, but its pop that that is the real problem

SirMichaelJordan · November 16, 2020

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Sprout1883" data-cite="Sprout1883" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="52201" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Adams response threw me. He is suggesting there arent enough low level companies for workers to work and gain pop, but its pop that that is the real problem</div></blockquote> Not really, I'm seeing new workers get signed by small companies in my save all of the time. I'm 90% sure it's a mod issue.

The Dynamite Sid · November 16, 2020

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="TheJG" data-cite="TheJG" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="52201" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I play TEW 2016, but the AI are awful at building up non-established workers. I thought this was a well known "feature" for the TEW series? It's got to the point where in historical mods I artificially bump the popularity of workers who don't work for me, otherwise nothing ever changes.</div></blockquote> Yeah it's always been this way. SWF will always push Rich Money well into his 40s while proven commodities like Primus Allen and Scythe sit around at the bottom of the card doing nothing for years on end. I haven't played 2020 long enough to vouch personally. I do remember reading during testing that the AI had gotten a lot better at cycling workers but from what's being said in this thread that isn't the case

Scott Zodiac · November 16, 2020

I’m not using a mod but only at the end of year 4.

Holy s word. Top story has literally just loaded as Edward Cornell being sacked from the USPW for his “regular use of prostitutes”.

Definitely going to have to push a younger star now.

absolutelyridiculous · November 17, 2020

<a href="http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2445952" rel="external nofollow">http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2445952</a>

I've reported this before. I probably reported it in 16? But as I see it, the AI at bottom, bottom levels doesn't go for the right kind of starting roster, which means that both 1) the companies will die, because they're spending too much on wages for indy stars and big company castoffs, and 2) certain young workers who might not even be bad will never get a contract anywhere, so they'll have to rely on indy shows.

But the workaround is super easy: if you see a company open, and it isn't one of the companies that start out as fairly big/rich, set their hiring rule to "unemployed only" and they'll make a logical starting roster, assuming there is decent talent available for them.

Scott Zodiac · November 17, 2020

That’s a good idea. There just needs to e a behind the scenes mechanic in game to put a hiring rule in that depends on cost.

I’ve got a Quebec company who are basically a copy of ACPW as all their workers are from their roster. They haven’t been able to run a show for 2 years because they haven’t had enough workers to run one on the day! They haven’t even signed up for QTV!

Sprout1883 · November 17, 2020

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="absolutelyridiculous" data-cite="absolutelyridiculous" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="52201" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div><a href="http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2445952" rel="external nofollow">http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2445952</a> I've reported this before. I probably reported it in 16? But as I see it, the AI at bottom, bottom levels doesn't go for the right kind of starting roster, which means that both 1) the companies will die, because they're spending too much on wages for indy stars and big company castoffs, and 2) certain young workers who might not even be bad will never get a contract anywhere, so they'll have to rely on indy shows. But the workaround is super easy: if you see a company open, and it isn't one of the companies that start out as fairly big/rich, set their hiring rule to "unemployed only" and they'll make a logical starting roster, assuming there is decent talent available for them.</div></blockquote> Cool. I am working on a real company/expanded C-verse roster mash-up mod, so this will help in my set-up. Will make sure some of the smaller promotions are size limited and set to hire unemployed only

Scott Zodiac · November 17, 2020

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="absolutelyridiculous" data-cite="absolutelyridiculous" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="52201" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>But the workaround is super easy: if you see a company open, and it isn't one of the companies that start out as fairly big/rich, set their hiring rule to "unemployed only" and they'll make a logical starting roster, assuming there is decent talent available for them.</div></blockquote> The problem will still continue in some regions where there is only one big company who can sign people to exclusive contracts. As soon as they are released, they are unemployed. It needs to be a dynamic behaviour where they don’t sign anybody too expensive that they cannot afford. I’ve tried to sign people and forced smaller companies to up their bid. They cannot afford it and it’s down crippling them. I’m not sure how long it takes for companies to be forced to close though. I’ve got a competitor who started with 250,000 and runs four events per month. They signed all of 21CW cast offs similar to SNP and they lose 60k per month. At the end of their second year they don’t lose as much per month but are 500k in debt. I was hoping to buy them out and steal their pop, but they still haven’t received a notice.

Ben Nook · November 17, 2020

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Scott Zodiac" data-cite="Scott Zodiac" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="52201" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>You can adjust the natural growth cap in the options, but I assumed it was only for Company popularity growth, rather than workers. I thought it may have been due to the worker I’m trying to build up being insignificant in angles; I kept getting the ‘didn’t look good out there’ road agent note on the angles. Just done another 100 angle with somebody well known in a 100 angle. On-screen rated on entertainment and they went up 1 pop in two regions on my home area (and not even in the region I ran the show). I don’t know what to do any more. The first guy I’m trying to build up has a record of 18-1-5 since joining me but has cooled momentum. I may just save and put him over all of my top guys in successive weeks just to see how much that helps or makes any difference whatsoever.</div></blockquote> No there were several changes from 1.15 that nerfed growth “by request” (by WHO) of several things which all culminated in the stagnant game worlds you guys are seeing now. 1.18 (July 26 2020) - Did some work on popularity gains for workers to reduce the rate of growth, by request 1.16 (July 05 2020) - Reduced the chances of amazing-powered rookies being generated, by request - Adjusted the potential gains and losses from big wins to be less extreme, by request 1.17 (July 19 2020) - Slowed down popularity growth for companies, especially for TV shows, by request There is basically a very vocal minority of forumites always complaining the game is too easy and apparently these patches were done by their request without giving any option or consideration to players who actually like a constantly and rapidly evolving game world. Which leads to topics like this. My game will remain unpatched until this issue is addressed. Oh and the reason using the 99 rated angles doesn’t work anymore is because of an early patch that massively nerfed pop gain from angle gains compared to 2016 to almost insignificant amounts. To the point where my most popular wrestlers can literally never lose matches because they can never gain popularity from angles and workers don’t really go past their caps anymore. By the way on 1.15 a game so allegedly cheap it needed all these nerfs there have been 2 wrestlers in the world championship who have developed past insignificant wrestlers in a major org and one of them was from me throwing them in a development territory using a constant schedule(they were one of the few “amazing powered” rookies the game generates like 5-6 times a year) The other was a super rookie female for CMLL who spawn with 80 aerial. Mexico in general seems to be the new Canada of having OP new generated talent for some reason. Anyway, both of these wrestlers will probably top out at high end midcarders. So I shudder to think what the rookies and how their development will fare on the newest patch.

Scott Zodiac · November 17, 2020

I can understand pop going up with the company as you grow. Most of my workers have gone up in line with the company sticking to their perception reasonably enough. I reward good in-ring performances by moving up the card. My product rates on 70% in-ring so pop isn’t so much of an issue for newer workers, but I’m now up to 81 in my home region on a good owned broadcaster. The question is how long does it take somebody to come into a company in real life and be used regularly in the mid card before they are at least recognised by that company? I feel it’s like bringing in AJ Styles directly from Japan and him being considered insignificant for 3 years despite good in-ring work.

I bought the game long after the 1.15 patch so I don’t know if I can roll that back or not. I doubt it. I don’t mind so much the nerf on the OP rookies, as they shouldn’t be too regular, but you should be able to grow stars faster if you feature them. I guess it’s because so many products rate popularity very highly. I guess I can just ignore it and take the hit on match rating for the next 3 years whilst my audience take that long to realise AJ Styles is a half-decent worker.

And another thing! I’ve grown my company from nothing, and obviously create a world title when I start out. I’m 4 years in and my prestige would be around 28 had I not edited it.

Meanwhile, some other company gets created with titles at a prestige of 40 without ever running a show or crowning a champion! What the hell?!

gazwefc83 · November 17, 2020

I've had no problem bring up lower level talent and making them stars, i always use the latest patch

Pentagon Jr. 70 - 90 in 5 months

Fenix - 60 - 80 in 5 months

Matt Taven - 80 - 100 in 5 months

Giulia - 45 - 90 in 7 months

Michael Elgin - 60 - 90 in 3 months

to name a few, I just wish the AI could do the same.

Scott Zodiac · November 17, 2020

Odd. I’m not getting that. In fact a couple of my guys have stalled out and seemingly hit a popularity cap. I didn’t think they existed in 2020 version. One guy has been 32/33 for years.

gazwefc83 · November 17, 2020

Odd. I’m not getting that. In fact a couple of my guys have stalled out and seemingly hit a popularity cap. I didn’t think they existed in 2020 version. One guy has been 32/33 for years.

Iv not noticed anybody with a cap yet, I'm seemingly able to get anybody over providing I book them well.

PhenomenalPat · November 17, 2020

I've found the best way to handle this is to game the system a bit.

Set up several tiny companies, give them enough money to last for a good while but set the size cap to tiny, so they will always be a tiny company. Then use hiring rules to set "only sign unemployed workers".

I give them gneric names and basically have then be generic indy companies. So Tristate Wrestling, South West Wrestling, Ontario Wrestling and stuff like that. They just act as an expansion to the built in Indy shows and make it so more workers wrestle more often.

Vinsmoker · November 17, 2020

I've found the best way to handle this is to game the system a bit.

Set up several tiny companies, give them enough money to last for a good while but set the size cap to tiny, so they will always be a tiny company. Then use hiring rules to set "only sign unemployed workers".

I give them gneric names and basically have then be generic indy companies. So Tristate Wrestling, South West Wrestling, Ontario Wrestling and stuff like that. They just act as an expansion to the built in Indy shows and make it so more workers wrestle more often.

I wouldn't even call this gaming the system, tbh.

gazwefc83 · November 17, 2020

I've found the best way to handle this is to game the system a bit.

Set up several tiny companies, give them enough money to last for a good while but set the size cap to tiny, so they will always be a tiny company. Then use hiring rules to set "only sign unemployed workers".

I give them gneric names and basically have then be generic indy companies. So Tristate Wrestling, South West Wrestling, Ontario Wrestling and stuff like that. They just act as an expansion to the built in Indy shows and make it so more workers wrestle more often.

I like that, i setup something similar yesterday by adding really small time companies and set there hiring rules to unemployed and no over the age of 25,then limited their size to small.

Bigpapa42 · November 17, 2020

You wouldn't even necessarily need to use fictional ones. There are tons of tiny local companies that have run for a long time without managing or even trying to grow. You could just do the size limitation and money roll with them, leaving them forever as what they actually have been. If they are being included in the data moreso to serve that purpose than try to grow or be meant as companies to be played.... that would work pretty well.

KevEnoch · November 19, 2020

I've noticed a difference in my mod from 2016 to 2020, and yes, younger workers have a more difficult time working their way up the ladder with the 2020 AI, even if they have the highest possible potential. I sim my 2001 mod 20 years into the future frequently to see how things shake out. Using 2016 Randy Orton, CM Punk, and Hiroshi Tanahashi become main-eventers despite having no events to boost their popularity. Using 2020 they always stagnate.

Zero · November 19, 2020

It depends all on the mod.

For example, I'm currently playing two games (1970 and 1985)

In the 1970 mod, almost everyone is getting hired. There are very few free agents that are young (a lot of older guys)

But in the 1985 mod, there are a ton of free agents (all ages, overness, etc)

Bigpapa42 · November 19, 2020

It depends all on the mod.

For example, I'm currently playing two games (1970 and 1985)

In the 1970 mod, almost everyone is getting hired. There are very few free agents that are young (a lot of older guys)

But in the 1985 mod, there are a ton of free agents (all ages, overness, etc)

Big difference in volume of companies and sizes between them, or something else?

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Does the AI ignore low experience/popularity workers?

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