No point in changing company size?

[KD637]

So I am currently running a rock hard save where I have been really successful.

 

1 show a month (costs)

No upgrades yet ( costs down again)

Still at Insignificant.

 

Now going forwards with a pop of roughly 27 I would LOVE to level up to Tiny, but why?

 

There is a downslide in the economy and industry meaning that i am currently making about 1.5k a month (that is like 1m a month to my company) if i upgrade to Tiny my production costs jump from like 200 a show to maybe 1 - 1.5 a show ( not 100% on the maths)

 

Long story short its not cost effective and technically never will be.

 

My goal is to run two shows a month but with me paying out my sponsorship income in JUST production costs, i will make a huge loss undoing my 2 years work.

It makes no sense to me at all!

 

So tell me why I should upgrade to Tiny?

What does that 1k production cost give me as any form of a benefit in the short / long term.

[Scott Zodiac]

TV show Costs per 2-hour show outside of Production/venue hire etc are:

 

Tiny $3,250 + $100 marketing

Small $7,000 + $250

Med $9,000 + $750

Big $19,000 + $2,000

Large $25,000 + $5,000

Titanic $41,000 + $7,500

 

I limited my own size when I first started out. The drawbacks to not increasing size is access to broadcasters who have size requirements. But at smaller sizes it is worth limiting until you are profitable.

[KD637]

TV deal is like 2035 earliest with my fed.

So yeh, will be 90 popularity and insignificant at this rate

[TheChef]

So tell me why I should upgrade to Tiny?

 

Because you want to play fair and not game the system? I've never really understood why the player and not the game gets to decide the size of the company. If you have pop 27, you're clearly not insignificant anymore, so why the game allows you to say you are is strange and just leaves it open for exploit.

[KD637]

Yeh that actually is the one thing that is making me want to upgrade imho.

 

I do feel a bit like, hey i want to be Tiny, but surely 200 - 1k production fees is steep? Im happy keeping it rinky dink at tiny cut some costs here and there, Dave on Cameras, Spotify still rocking the entry music with Trev looking out for Lars Ulrich.

 

Maybe more control over how much you spend in production because not gaming the system is a real biggy.

Thanks for that post.

[Sprout1883]

Because you want to play fair and not game the system? I've never really understood why the player and not the game gets to decide the size of the company. If you have pop 27, you're clearly not insignificant anymore, so why the game allows you to say you are is strange and just leaves it open for exploit.

 

Not sure how practical but pop maybe should probably be capped slightly above the size requirements. for example maybe Insignficant capped at 20. Tiny 38 or something so you can go a little bit further.

 

I would think though most people if playing are going to expand for the challenge anyway rather than gaming the system as surely that takes the fun out of it. If you don't grow you don't the broadcasters or access to better wrestlers do you

[SirMichaelJordan]

The main problem and something that have been brought up but never addressed is that you can gain plenty of popularity with a tiny or even insignificant company.

 

Pop caps should be way tighter to give us a reason to move up in size instead of limiting our size.

 

The fact that you can reach 70+ pop at such levels enables those companies to make massive amount of money while limiting their expenses which only scale with company size…

 

Kind of sad that it took a year later for people to start noticing these things.

[KD637]

Im guessing that is a bias of players using mods or the larger / established CVerse feds which has allowed this to slip through the radar?

 

 

How many people actually build a ground up fed for themselves?

 

I have semi decided for rp reasons i will upgrade to tiny by 2024 for me my concern is going bankrupt when upgrading to tiny even.

 

That production spike for shows is like 400 / 500 %. Meaning that it will stagnate my growth or at least my plans for another few years.

[SirMichaelJordan]

Im guessing that is a bias of players using mods or the larger / established CVerse feds which has allowed this to slip through the radar?

 

 

How many people actually build a ground up fed for themselves?

 

I have semi decided for rp reasons i will upgrade to tiny by 2024 for me my concern is going bankrupt when upgrading to tiny even.

 

That production spike for shows is like 400 / 500 %. Meaning that it will stagnate my growth or at least my plans for another few years.

 

This was a long topic in the suggestion and bug forums. In fact, it was fine out of the box (but there was a legit bug where the cap was lower than number needed for the next level) but then a patch over adjusted the caps because someone said it was too low…Same story with worker pop caps.

[d12345]

The balancing the game does is you are not allowed to sign top level stars if you limit your size.

 

You can't sign Hulk Hogan if you're Insignificant and you can't offer exclusive iron clad contracts. So any large company can come in and snatch up your stars.

[Derek B]

You're also losing out on the extra prestige and momentum for your company.... more momentum will get you more fans to each of your shows, which combined with the extra ticket sales and merch money can potentially offset any other costs. Extra prestige will improve your company ranking, making it easier to avoid talent conflicts, which can make things easier to plan around. And as already mentioned, at larger sizes you can gain access to talent you might otherwise not have access to, and can also potentially get different deals with talent, broadcasters, alliances etc....

 

You can also get drawn into regional battles, which depending on your success can lead to you getting extra fans (if you win) giving you yet more money and generally accelrate your growth.

 

So while there are times it might make sense to stay at a smaller size, you are overlooking a lot of potential benefits to growing depending on what you want to do with your company. The decision is up to you to work out at which point things are actually better for you, and in many cases the extra growth you can get as a smaller company thanks to momentum boosts can offset the costs of rising in size.

[Scott Zodiac]

I thought only popularity affected audience size? Momentum and Prestige are merely cosmetic according to the handbook.

[Thane of Fife]

I thought only popularity affected audience size? Momentum and Prestige are merely cosmetic according to the handbook.

 

Under Booking and Running Shows / Attendance Levels, it says that your momentum affects the audience size.

[SirMichaelJordan]

The balancing the game does is you are not allowed to sign top level stars if you limit your size.

 

You can't sign Hulk Hogan if you're Insignificant and you can't offer exclusive iron clad contracts. So any large company can come in and snatch up your stars.

 

The problem is that you can limit yourself to insignificant, gain a lot of popularity and money before jumping to medium or above. There isn’t really any benefit to go from insignificant to tiny to small to etc. Some of the benefits of being able to give out certain contracts don’t really matter until you reach medium.

[steev42]

Yeh that actually is the one thing that is making me want to upgrade imho.

 

I do feel a bit like, hey i want to be Tiny, but surely 200 - 1k production fees is steep? Im happy keeping it rinky dink at tiny cut some costs here and there, Dave on Cameras, Spotify still rocking the entry music with Trev looking out for Lars Ulrich.

 

Maybe more control over how much you spend in production because not gaming the system is a real biggy.

Thanks for that post.

 

Yeah, this is one of the reasons I was advocating for no sizes during the dev diary. I'd much rather have everything just kind of scale relatively smoothly. First, you wouldn't have those huge jumps from 200-1500 etc. (though maybe that comes from another production option). Secondly, they're kind of arbitrary when it comes to how and why you change sizes. Finally, I'd much rather see things like "will sign written contracts" be based entirely on the wrestler's opinion of your company than just a generic "you've hit medium".

[Kijar]

Sponsorship money increases more than anything with change in size.

[d12345]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="SirMichaelJordan" data-cite="SirMichaelJordan" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="52789" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>The problem is that you can limit yourself to insignificant, gain a lot of popularity and money before jumping to medium or above. There isn’t really any benefit to go from insignificant to tiny to small to etc. Some of the benefits of being able to give out certain contracts don’t really matter until you reach medium.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> At Insignificant you are also unable to sign some mid-level workers who will think you're too small.</p>

[SirMichaelJordan]

At Insignificant you are also unable to sign some mid-level workers who will think you're too small.

 

If you’re at insignificant, i don’t think you are even looking to sign those workers anyway. Limit yourself to the lowest size, gain the pop and money then move to tiny and have the ability to sign multiple mid level workers.

[SirMichaelJordan]

Sponsorship money increases more than anything with change in size.

 

This would be valuable if money wasn’t plentiful. TEW makes it seem like wrestling is a lucrative business.

[jbergey_2005]

This would be valuable if money wasn’t plentiful. TEW makes it seem like wrestling is a lucrative business.

 

The great news is. The popularity of worker issue seems much better with the latest patch. Im not seeing 2 dozen 90+ popularity workers in long term saves.

 

Maybe. If this sticks. The finances and company popularity can be worked on next.

[SirMichaelJordan]

The great news is. The popularity of worker issue seems much better with the latest patch. Im not seeing 2 dozen 90+ popularity workers in long term saves.

 

Maybe. If this sticks. The finances and company popularity can be worked on next.

 

That’s great news.

[d12345]

If you’re at insignificant, i don’t think you are even looking to sign those workers anyway. Limit yourself to the lowest size, gain the pop and money then move to tiny and have the ability to sign multiple mid level workers.

 

This totally depends on your product. If you're sports entertainment then you absolutely need those over guys to get better show and match grades.

 

Your workers will stop gaining pop at a certain cap. That cap gets higher if the company's size increases.

 

Signing a more popular worker to put them over can help you break those caps but you wouldn't be able to sign those big company cast-offs at insignificant (unless they were unemployed for 6-12 months)

 

Anyway, sure you can game the system if that's how you want to play. The point is there are some built in things to make it worthwhile to not game it in this way.

[KD637]

As a update I did infact upgrade my company to tiny.

[SirMichaelJordan]

This totally depends on your product. If you're sports entertainment then you absolutely need those over guys to get better show and match grades.

 

Your workers will stop gaining pop at a certain cap. That cap gets higher if the company's size increases.

 

Signing a more popular worker to put them over can help you break those caps but you wouldn't be able to sign those big company cast-offs at insignificant (unless they were unemployed for 6-12 months)

 

Anyway, sure you can game the system if that's how you want to play. The point is there are some built in things to make it worthwhile to not game it in this way.

 

According to the handbook, the cap is tied to the audience size not the company size. Unless the recent patch fix pop gains for workers. Those caps were easily broken. Not to mention that you can reach 70 popularity with a tiny size company, giving you the needed reach to break those caps.