What is your philosophy/strategy with booking your IC/US/secondary title?

[TheChef]

No, YOU would want to be the top champion and YOU wouldn’t aspire to be champion of the midcard, and that’s fine. But the world is a very diverse place, pro wrestling included, and people have a wide variety of aspirations. There’s lots of MMA fighters and boxers that care more about, say, entertaining their fans than winning a belt. Or fighting as often as possible. Or using their platform to spread a message. Nate Diaz and Jorge Masvidal once fought for the BMF title.

 

Not to mention, the two most common uses for midcard titles mentioned here - youngsters who are on their way to the world title and career midcarders who probably won’t ever quite get there - both cover why someone would want to win the midcard title in their very description. Why wouldn’t somebody who aspires to be world champion want to win the midcard title as a stepping stone on their way up? Especially if that’s how it’s been used in the past and there’s a precedent. And why wouldn’t somebody who can’t win the world title go after a title that they can win? It’s more money, it’s guaranteed TV time. Maybe they don’t even want to deal with the pressure of being in the main event, or the media obligations that come with being the world champion, or having the target on their back with everybody gunning for them.

 

Forget the hamburger thing, this is like somebody saying there should be no assistant coaches because everybody should only want to be a head coach. There should be no backups because everybody should want to be a starter. There should be no mom and pop corner stores because everybody should want to be an international chain store. There should be no employees because everybody should want to be the owner. There should be no Vice President because everybody should want to be President.

 

If you’re running a promotion that treats wrestling like a legitimate sport, I kinda get it. If that’s the gimmick you want to go with, there’s only one title and that’s all that matters, cool, you do you. But the idea that nobody else should think differently is just silly.

 

 

Well, you're just putting words in my mouth here. You're responding to what you think I wrote and not what I actually wrote. I didn't say that no one should ever use secondary titles or that people shouldn't be happy with what they can achieve. I responded to a post of what people use secondary titles for and I said that, in my opinion, they should be used as their own division, so a holder can be champion of that division and not just the champion of the best of the rest. From the point of view of a character who enters a competitive sport (which wrestling is in kayfabe), trains, dedicates their lives to it and doesn't want to try to get to the very top of their division? That doesn't make sense to me. Whether they can get there or not is a separate issue and everyone should be happy with achieving the best of their ability.

 

Also, I use a secondary title when I play TEW. It's a division title though, so the holder is champion of that division, not just a champion of the runners-up. I also run an annual trios tournament and a cruiserweight tournament. There are things people can achieve and fight for and be happy with and that storylines can be based around beyond a main title. I'm not against secondary titles at all, but when they are presented as lesser or midcard titles just to give someone something to do, I don't really see the point.

[Self]

Also, I use a secondary title when I play TEW. It's a division title though, so the holder is champion of that division, not just a champion of the runners-up. I also run an annual trios tournament and a cruiserweight tournament. There are things people can achieve and fight for and be happy with and that storylines can be based around beyond a main title. I'm not against secondary titles at all, but when they are presented as lesser or midcard titles just to give someone something to do, I don't really see the point.

 

Finally, a kindred spirit.

 

I know my burger analogy was bad, but I couldn't think of anything else where you have two of the same thing but one is better, but if I were Triple H I probably wouldn't remember what fast food tastes like, that dude is eating things we can't pronounce, he's not going to eat dollar menu burgers when he can afford four star restaurants on the daily. Other guys who are not Triple H, they do have to eat McDonald's. Not that they wouldn't if they didn't have to, but they have to settle with McDonald's. I'm still trying to compare the fifty dollar burger and McDonald's to title prestige in this sense.

 

It was a good attempt at an analogy and I enjoyed the thought experiment, and it points to my belief that title 'prestige' is a weird and abstract thing. A trope in wrestling that has few comparisons in reality. One I thought of was the FA Cup/EFL Cup in UK soccer. How I remember them from my youth, at least. Both are annual tournaments that every major team enters, but one is considered better than the other. So to avoid tiring out their A-squad in competing for both trophies (in addition to their typical league games) the better teams prioritize the bigger trophy, maybe sending their B/Youth team out for the little one. So lesser teams sometimes win the smaller trophy.

 

The difference between this and wrestling is that those reasons exist. They're talked about. It's a tactical decision. The rewards are definite, tangible things. The risks in fighting for the lesser title are clear. But most midcard belts don't have this level of thought. Why doesn't 'belt collector' Kenny Omega want the TV Title? He doesn't want the tag titles because his friends have them, that's good story. Is he afraid of Darby? He can't be afraid of having to defend the title regularly, he's doing 30 minutes every Dynamite, plus Rampage and AAA. Is he not greedy? I thought he was a villain.

 

I love having multiple title belts for different elements of the roster to fight over. I just like there to be rules and reasons why the top guys don't want and win everything.

[kinnikuniverse]

Finally, a kindred spirit.

 

 

 

It was a good attempt at an analogy and I enjoyed the thought experiment, and it points to my belief that title 'prestige' is a weird and abstract thing. A trope in wrestling that has few comparisons in reality. One I thought of was the FA Cup/EFL Cup in UK soccer. How I remember them from my youth, at least. Both are annual tournaments that every major team enters, but one is considered better than the other. So to avoid tiring out their A-squad in competing for both trophies (in addition to their typical league games) the better teams prioritize the bigger trophy, maybe sending their B/Youth team out for the little one. So lesser teams sometimes win the smaller trophy.

 

The difference between this and wrestling is that those reasons exist. They're talked about. It's a tactical decision. The rewards are definite, tangible things. The risks in fighting for the lesser title are clear. But most midcard belts don't have this level of thought. Why doesn't 'belt collector' Kenny Omega want the TV Title? He doesn't want the tag titles because his friends have them, that's good story. Is he afraid of Darby? He can't be afraid of having to defend the title regularly, he's doing 30 minutes every Dynamite, plus Rampage and AAA. Is he not greedy? I thought he was a villain.

 

I love having multiple title belts for different elements of the roster to fight over. I just like there to be rules and reasons why the top guys don't want and win everything.

 

That is food for thought, indeed. Of course, the real reason why omega's not going after the TV title is to both avoid cries of chauvinism and being called a selfish prick on twitter as well as putting over the younger stars like darby, but yeah, now that you said it, it is interesting...in fact, thinking about my OLLIE game and my handling of the Mexico title, you can ask some questions regarding title names, as well.

 

Like, what the hell is a universal title? Why are there no aliens from other planets of the universe challenging for the title, since its supposed to be "universal"? And why is an Austrian the UK champion? Or why Christian is the "european champion" if he's canadian?

[Matt_Black]

 

Like, what the hell is a universal title? Why are there no aliens from other planets of the universe challenging for the title, since its supposed to be "universal"?

 

Extranjero Loco would like a word with you....