Fighter skill gap

[megascrub22]

One of the things that really gets to me is that after a few years in game the skills gap between fighters never closes.

 

So I play almost exclusively the CVerse and it seems that after a few years I always get into a situation in which the same pool of fighters stays at the top. I try to bring fighters in to my company that are either new gens or were very young when the game started and try to groom them to make it to the top 5 or 10... in my experience this very rarely takes place without me using the ingame editor to buff their stats. It seems like it's always the same 6 or so guys in the title picture in every division. Does anyone feel the way I do?

 

 

Things I do to help combat this:

 

1)Book a new fighter against similar skilled fighter. Then if he wins book him against a fighter who has +300/+700 odds (which isn't hard to do as it's most of the roster). If he somehow wins that then I boost his stats through the editor to where he is at even odds the rest of his fights to the top. I stop his push once he loses.

 

2)I use the editor to populate good new fighters. (This is the easier way but doesn't help fighters who already are in the default database.

 

I just wish there was more an element of competition and randomness. It seems more often than not I bring a guy in because he looks exciting and he is a -500 underdog to anyone that matters... Its not a dealbreaker because I guess that's how mma works... but its hard to get a guy who comes out of nowhere and makes an impact within a handful of fights.

[BigINMoldova]

Fight odds are one of the reasons why I'd love a WMMA6. A lot of times their completely illogical like if you sign someone from Alpha One with unknown popularity in the U.S, They'll be a +1000 favorite against mid-level to high level GAMMA fighters which seems unrealistic to me.

 

Age and damage also don't seem to be factors. James Foster will be a +900 against a couple of guys even though he's in his mid-to-late thirties which seems crazy to me.

 

 

Yes, He's an incredibly dominant champion but so was Anderson Silva or Amanda Nunes. Time is the one undefeated enemy in combat sports. Foster usually loses in my saves which makes sense but the odds never reflect that fact.

[BrokenCycle]

Hmm, I think you're expecting a little too much from the game.

 

It's true that the same GROUP of elite level fighters have greater odds to stay on top in every game, while the less good fighters don't have as many opportunities to become elite, but I think there's a ton of variance in who actually ends up at the tippy-top hierarchy every time you start a fresh game. Sometimes certain guys are good, and other times they suck.

 

I also think the game does a good job at ramping up fighters' skills when regens come into the game. This takes around a decade, which is a lot of play time but not THAT much.

 

I feel what you're describing would be a little chaotic.

[megascrub22]

Hmm, I think you're expecting a little too much from the game.

 

It's true that the same GROUP of elite level fighters have greater odds to stay on top in every game, while the less good fighters don't have as many opportunities to become elite, but I think there's a ton of variance in who actually ends up at the tippy-top hierarchy every time you start a fresh game. Sometimes certain guys are good, and other times they suck.

 

I also think the game does a good job at ramping up fighters' skills when regens come into the game. This takes around a decade, which is a lot of play time but not THAT much.

 

I feel what you're describing would be a little chaotic.

 

I see where you are coming from... I guess my problem is that I book too many shows. I am 8 years in in my current save.I have a show every two weeks amd sometimes weekly so maybe I am running through guys too quickly. I guess 10 to 12 shows a year can help aging out se of the top contenders and let the newer guys grow skill-wise. Do you really think that having a boom/ bust feature for random guys asking too much? Thats basically what I'd like to see (even though we aren't getting a sixth game). A bit of randomness maybe where every so often a guy can skyrocket up the ranking withing a few fights. (Conor,weidman,lesnar,gane etc etc). I absolutely love the game but it gets hard to book when I've already dine trilogies l, moved the fighters weight classes and any new contender is a +600 underdog.You say it takes 10 years for there to be variance but I'd suggest that it's because the same process I described just reset. Sam problem different faces. I have considered it being a database problem (i.e not enough fighters). Maybe I can mess around with the eras but I'm not too familiar with just how it works. Lastly I've thought about messing around with the potential stat on a handful of young fighters. Thank you for your input.

[megascrub22]

Fight odds are one of the reasons why I'd love a WMMA6. A lot of times their completely illogical like if you sign someone from Alpha One with unknown popularity in the U.S, They'll be a +1000 favorite against mid-level to high level GAMMA fighters which seems unrealistic to me.

 

Age and damage also don't seem to be factors. James Foster will be a +900 against a couple of guys even though he's in his mid-to-late thirties which seems crazy to me.

 

 

Yes, He's an incredibly dominant champion but so was Anderson Silva or Amanda Nunes. Time is the one undefeated enemy in combat sports. Foster usually loses in my saves which makes sense but the odds never reflect that fact.

 

I'd love that to be looked at if Adam made another wmma. I haven't really played any real world mods I wonder if the same thing happens.

[BrokenCycle]

I see where you are coming from... I guess my problem is that I book too many shows. I am 8 years in in my current save.I have a show every two weeks amd sometimes weekly so maybe I am running through guys too quickly.

 

Lol. We do play the game very differently. I don't think the CVerse is that deep to have a huge roster and tons of shows, so I play with a very small roster. I also don't fire people too often, and each game that I play I will make a mental list of fighters that I will not hire to force myself into things I've never played before. The last real world 2007 game I played, I didn't hire anyone that was a previous UFC champion, in real life, for example.

[megascrub22]

Lol. We do play the game very differently. I don't think the CVerse is that deep to have a huge roster and tons of shows, so I play with a very small roster. I also don't fire people too often, and each game that I play I will make a mental list of fighters that I will not hire to force myself into things I've never played before. The last real world 2007 game I played, I didn't hire anyone that was a previous UFC champion, in real life, for example.

 

 

I do fear that me booking too many shows is part of the problem. It sounds like you do a lot of mental gymnastics to maximize your enjoyment. You mention real life, that I know only 2 champions in the ufc have 10+ defenses (Silva and DJ) And no one has more than 3 defenses at heavyweight. In the cverse champions rack up 10+ defenses no problem.

[jw80daddy]

Yeah, trying booking less shows, at least for a while. That should start to balance things out for fighters skills.

[AlexB]

Also create more gyms - one big issue is that gyms help fighters improve quicker, but there are nowhere near enough spaces, and they are taken up largely by the better fighters.

 

So the younger developing fighters are stunted by not having gyms to train at, further exacerbating the OPs observation

 

Adding more gyms will help these guys challenge

[megascrub22]

Thank you. Adding gyms seems like it will help.

[Blackman]

I too can testify that the C-verse is quite deep in terms of talent. Literaly EVERY division is exciting to play for both A1 and GAMMA.

 

If they are not getting there, you're probably either forcing them out of the title picture through bad matchups, or are just unlucky that game with the destiny rolls.

[Black Dog]

Fight odds are one of the reasons why I'd love a WMMA6. A lot of times their completely illogical like if you sign someone from Alpha One with unknown popularity in the U.S, They'll be a +1000 favorite against mid-level to high level GAMMA fighters which seems unrealistic to me.

 

Age and damage also don't seem to be factors. James Foster will be a +900 against a couple of guys even though he's in his mid-to-late thirties which seems crazy to me.

 

 

Yes, He's an incredibly dominant champion but so was Anderson Silva or Amanda Nunes. Time is the one undefeated enemy in combat sports. Foster usually loses in my saves which makes sense but the odds never reflect that fact.

 

You're reading it wrong. +900 is a huge underdog. -900 is the favorite.

[ChadMiniMendes]

I get what you’re saying. It’s like that for me in my BCF save. There’s about 5 guys who are miles better than everyone else in the division & they end up all fighting each other for the belt, beating everyone else.

 

HW

- Ekberg, Kapur, Ivanov, Fujii, those 4 just keep trading the title nobody else comes close

 

LHW

- Fantoni, van der Moot, Watson, Kirby & Leddy. Same as above

 

MW

- White, Monroe, Napier, Americans just own this division & these 3 keep trading the belt

 

WW

- Gardner, van der Capellen, Cupples, keep beating all the new contenders & trading the belt

 

LW

- Helio, Sukarno, Basora, Lermontov & to a lesser extent Keane. I have prospects with insane stats getting easily massacred by these guys. Helio & Sukarno have fought like 5 times now.

 

FW

- Jokichi & Banner just demolish every other contender & only lose to each other

 

I guess it’s semi realistic but it can irritating doing constant rematches for the titles.

[someguy82]

Can't say I can relate I find the likes of Toby Dingleberry, Crow Leddy, Paul Goodfellow, Lars Gunnar-Ekberg, Mogens Leerback, Shaun Dico, Brian O'Flaherty, Cullen Skink, Heiko Pander and Freddy Lomax are 9/10 times champs in major organisations or atleast top 10 ranked talent within 5 years in any of my saves.

[BrokenCycle]

Can't say I can relate I find the likes of Toby Dingleberry, Crow Leddy, Paul Goodfellow, Lars Gunnar-Ekberg, Mogens Leerback, Shaun Dico, Brian O'Flaherty, Cullen Skink, Heiko Pander and Freddy Lomax are 9/10 times champs in major organisations or atleast top 10 ranked talent within 5 years in any of my saves.

 

But that's kinda what the OP was complaining about-- they find that there's a group of fighters that dominate and no one really rises up otherwise.

[Blackman]

I get what you’re saying. It’s like that for me in my BCF save. There’s about 5 guys who are miles better than everyone else in the division & they end up all fighting each other for the belt, beating everyone else.

 

And in what time span is that? It can't be that far into a game if Watson and Basora are still active. Seems like you just mention the last 5 title holders for each division. I can do the same thing for the UFC and claim that there's a skill gap.

 

Remember that it's supposed to be similar to UFC in its 7th year. Not modern UFC. It's 2002.

 

Also remember that the start of the game has many elite fighters that - by the time the organic elite get traction - will have 100 experience and will always have a leg up on the newbies unless their chin is worn out. You simply cannot properly build up a fighter in the timeframe you are in now, given who is still active.

[Martel123]

Just for context from my experience, I run a PFL type promotion in the C-Verse that uses some of the expansion mods for more fighters. Each division for me at least is different. For Super Heavyweight, for example, I have Jimmy Royale, Spike Summers (both Expansion), and Matas as the top 3, with Jermaine DeBarge and Chi Ji Guang following. Meanwhile in Featherweight, Lamont Banner is a two season champ but the one losing season, where he lost in the semi finals to Marco Bernacci (Always seems to happen in my games lmao) caused a huge hole that was filled by a mix of Freddy Lomax, Colm Dee, and David James Diggle, with other featherweights still able to contend against those top 3.

 

For building up prospects I've used a division system. Prospects start in Division 3 (Below 10 fights as a pro usually) and move up to Division 2 (Filled with a mix of veterans, prospects, and those who float between D1 and D2) if they make it to the finals (or on special occasions, just the playoffs.) Same system applies to Division 2, but fighters who go 0-4 (4 fights per season in the top 2 divisions) or something are mostly cut (Unless they are popular or still a prospect)

 

So how does that impact the top stars/contenders? Well Heavyweight and Middleweight are just madness. Heavyweight has 10 fighters that all could conceivably win the tournament, while Middleweight is also nuts. Two prospects (Shane Dobson and Oleg Pavlov, from the expansion pack) have gone from low prospects in D3 to top stars in the company, vying for the D1 trophy.

 

I could go way more in-depth, but to stay on topic, I found the best way to find/make stars is to figure out who truly has potential, who can beat the other prospects with a convincing fashion. Then you can start moving them up. But you also must not be afraid to demote those prospects who do mediocre. Cullen Skink is clearly a top 10 guy in my Lightweight division but his record and losses are getting worse. So even though he went 2-2, I sent him down to D2 to get the confidence back, as he is still 23 in my game world and is clearly someone who can make me a lot of money.

 

The process in general is trial and error, be that through the game or simply just trusting your gut on someone's skills. I also want to mention that the opening of gyms is really helpful in getting their skill levels up as well.

[Undertaker666]

Jimmy Royle, Spike Summers, Jermaine DeBarge, Shane Dobson and Oleg Pavlov

 

Those names look familiar. Glad to see someone using my expansion database.

[Martel123]

Those names look familiar. Glad to see someone using my expansion database.

 

Yeah man that database has been awesome. I'd say a third or so of my guys are from just that alone. Thanks for uploading it.

[SavageMMA]

On 2/20/2022 at 6:11 PM, BigINMoldova said:

Fight odds are one of the reasons why I'd love a WMMA6. A lot of times their completely illogical like if you sign someone from Alpha One with unknown popularity in the U.S, They'll be a +1000 favorite against mid-level to high level GAMMA fighters which seems unrealistic to me.

 

Age and damage also don't seem to be factors. James Foster will be a +900 against a couple of guys even though he's in his mid-to-late thirties which seems crazy to me.

 

 

Yes, He's an incredibly dominant champion but so was Anderson Silva or Amanda Nunes. Time is the one undefeated enemy in combat sports. Foster usually loses in my saves which makes sense but the odds never reflect that fact.

You have betting and odds backwards there bud. The fighter with + is the underdog. +1000 means you are a HUGE underdog.