SirMichaelJordan
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Posts posted by SirMichaelJordan
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In the product screen, there is an option to make all matches scripted, however, there is nothing for angles, which I think is super weird. In the WWE, that is often one of the most common criticisms. It would make sense to:
1) Add "all angles are scripted" into the product screen, or
2) Integrate "all angles are scripted" into some products, like the family friendly ones, or
3) Make "all angles are scripted" a booking preference for workers, or
4) (which I will also post in the attributes thread:) Make an attribute, like Control Freak, that makes it so all angles under their leadership are scripted, called "Voice of the Voiceless" or "Watch Your Mouth" or something.
5) or simply, as an add on to 4, bundle "all angles are scripted under their leadership" into "Control Freak."
Thank you!
This would definitely be a welcome addition as I have to manually check it on for every angle.
I’m not sure if this is already the case (I’ve seen workers be off their game when using an unscripted angle but I’m not sure if a scripted angle is a safe guard) but it would be cool to see scripted angles less likely to bomb but also less likely to become a pipe bomb. Vice versa, unscripted angles have a higher chance to bomb but also have a higher chance to rate very high.
This would work similar to how when you take away something like aerial moves it brings the rating down because of limitations. It would be cool to see that apply here for scripted/unscripted.
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A penalty isn't the same thing as the fans rejecting the match. You can still run face/face or heel/heel, it just isn't as good for that product as face/heel. With the right story, it can still be a solid part of the card. With the right guys, it can still main event the biggest show of the year.
I don't know how much preparing someone to turn affects those penalties. It would be cool if it did. Start sowing the seeds for Kenny Omega to turn heel, and now his matches against fellow babyfaces don't take as big a penalty. With the downside of if you cancel the turn or take too long to do it, then his momentum falls in the toilet.
I agree. I don’t think the game is meant to be played by trying to avoid every possible penalty.
The good news is that there are already options for that currently in the game.
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am I the only one that see contracts as a issue?
sorry not trying to hijack this thread but its seems to be a by-product of the original issue.
I ran a test where I set everyone's handshake deal to expire from ongoing to random and everyone was automatically switched to ongoing.
1 know it’s 1944 in the save but I’m assuming that the financial part isn’t reflected. So with that said, a company with that much popularity in a single region, although still at small doesn’t have anyone making over $300 in that screenshot. Based on information I’ve found online, $300 is like the base price for some top tier workers at an obscure Indy company. Guys that usually barely make anything are the unknown local workers.
Along with the OP problem, I think asking price for handshake deals should be higher depending on the worker’s popularity of course. They also should be asking for way more pay raises.
And before anyone says “you wouldn’t be able to run local to global” my counter would be that you shouldn’t have a large roster in the first place especially filled with workers that have a lot of popularity relative to your company. Most of your talent should come from those local one off deals...
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What are the contracts like? are they ongoing or written?
I've noticed an issue with ongoing contracts where 70% of the rosters are on $50 per show or less. some workers are with a company 5+ years and are still only making $30 per show never having a payrise at all.
I would think a company making that much money would spend 4x/5x more money on workers then what they are spending.
I believe that is tied to company size. I wonder what the contracts are like as well. Workers should definitely be aware of the company’s income and should ask for far more raises if they aren’t on written deals. I’m not sure companies outside of medium offer written deals, so it might be ongoing. I haven’t been noticing lack of pay raises but I also haven’t been checking. It’ll be interesting to see how that is working as that is potentially another side effect of having massive popularity and income relative to size.
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That is accurate.
I agree with your suggestions.
I think these 2 options should be considered:
1) Natural Growth Limits to apply to live shows as well
2) Limiting attendance based on company size
At the moment, the company has these coverage on their TV show:
Commercial terrestrial channel
Great Lakes - Tiny
Mid Atlantic - Tiny
South East - Tiny
In the past, they had these:
Commercial terrestrial channel - Several years
New England - Tiny
Tri State - Tiny
Commercial terrestrial channel - About 6 months
All USA - Very Small
I would indeed not say that it was their TV show that made them grow in popularity (not 100% sure, as I didn't review their popularity frequently). I think most of the growth was from their events.
I can see that change working as well but there would be a massive jump in attendance, sales and income once you reach that thresholds in popularity in other areas to jump up a size making it feel unnatural.
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But in the OP, it was stated that they had a TV deal in the regions they were at. They ran their TV tapings in the markets they're not as popular in but then run their live events in the market where they are more popular, where they are still on TV. So they are using TV to get more popular, holding events in areas where they have TV, and then running shows in their home market that are incredibly popular... So the TV issue continues to baffle me as the OP never said they were doing all of this without TV/being broadcast.
Again,
1. natural growth limit only applies to tv coverage.
2. You can break the cap by running live shows in a region.
The company in question has tiny coverage nationally and home region (I’m assuming).
The company is able to break the tiny tv coverage cap in their home region because it is continuously holding shows there. This is why the company have much more popularity than any other regions and is able to make as much money as a national or large company.
IMO, a better balance would be for Natural Growth Limits to apply to live shows as well, meaning that you can only break it if you have more eyes on the product as it says in the handbook. This should at least apply when playing with it on Full. With this, a company would now have to seek a bigger tv deal in their home region in order to reach that much popularity it currently have. This would simulate the company reaching a broader audience in their home region, exactly like they did in the territory days when they used TV for promotion of their bigger events.
Otherwise, you could just sit back and run events in one area, make tons of money that rivals a Medium - Large company without having to worry about the expenses that a comes with a Big or Large Company.
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Don’t spend more than you create. I’m assuming that you have a large expensive roster or run many shows? It’s really not hard to make loads of money with a small company if you’re not overspending.
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This just isn't true. Jim Londos was drawing crowds modern WWE would literally kill for in the 1920s before the advent of TV. We're talking regularly packing baseball stadiums. Putting a pop cap on how much regional strongholds can draw and basing it on TV visibility would hurt real world mods (and even organic stuff like the OP). It just shouldn't make the companies so rich.
If anything, TV should eventually erode live attendance, not boost it. While a lot of the territories used weekly TV to drive fans to their big arena shows, ultimately television has proven to be more competition than boon for live sports. The bigger and more accessible that TV gets, the more fans should choose to watch from home, thus winnowing the gates -- just like what's happened in reality. But I don't think TEW can be sophisticated enough to model that and now I'm off on a real tangent.
Anyway, I totally agree that finances need a serious rebalance, but I'm still not sold on a pop cap being the answer. Seems like more of a band-aid. If the underlying calculations that determine profit per ticket (gate) and profit per fan (merchandise) were toned down, a company growing strong in one region wouldn't be so screwy.
That article pretty much proved my point. Every wrestler and company during the golden era that was drawing big numbers had a form of TV for promotion and to expand. 70+ popularity is going to draw way over 30K people for an event. Jim Lando was drawing 10k easy and getting 30K in stadiums. He probably would be a 100 popularity which would give a boost to attendance...Still, you don’t need high pop to draw 30k for a major event in TEW 2020. Not to mention Lando was the attraction and not whatever promotion he was working with.
From a separate article
Following the advent of television, professional wrestling matches began to be aired nationally during this time, reaching a larger fanbase than ever before. This was a time of enormous growth for professional wrestling, as rising demand and national expansion made it a much more popular and lucrative form of entertainment than in decades previous. This was called a "Golden Age" for the wrestling industry. From 1948 to 1955, each of the three major television networks broadcast wrestling shows; the largest supporter being the DuMont Television Networ -
Hmm. I don't think pop gain needs to be capped in this situation. The way this company is running shows/gaining popularity in one region is pretty realistic for 1920s-60s territories. I like that it's possible to establish such a stronghold. We need companies to be able to hit 70+ pop in a region with little to no broadcasting for the sake of historic mods.
What looks broken to me are the ticket and merchandise sales. No Small companies should be socking away that kind of profit, especially not from merchandise. (They're running in one area and those same people are buying 3 million in gear EVERY MONTH? Come on.) It also looks like Weekly Events are a bit OP, with the company not suffering any diminishing returns from hitting the same area again and again. Basically, it's finances that need nerfing, not popularity.
I'd be curious to know what merchandising level they're at (and what level they started at).
Finances is a mess in itself but companies from the 1920-1960’s weren’t bringing the numbers relative to TEW popularity without having a TV program. 70 popularity is not far from what WWE should be which gets way over 30k in attendance at events in TEW with about 75 or so popularity in a region.
Also it’s definitely a popularity problem because just like tickets and merch, there was the same problem with PPV buys which has been tweak but still didn’t fix the inflation. With the earlier patch for PPV buys, the cost of PPV now average out to about $3 per buy but the number of people buying relative to the size still caused an inflation.
200,000 fans (70 POP) buying a PPV for $3 is going to be around $600k
While a realistic number (for the company in question size) would be like 2000 buys for $60 (a more realistic amount for a PPV) would only bring in about $120k...That’s a huge difference.
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Initially I expected the pop to be capped at the threshold. It would then allow you to build up some reserve money before increasing costs, with the drawback of having your workers increase in popularity whilst you stay still potentially having other companies steal them away, or them requesting more money.
I started a new company on 10 pop and run very cheap tickets to boost gains and have limited size to insignificant. My costs remain constant, but my ticket prices and sponsors keep going up. My economy is current at 1 and falling, so I can only go up from here. The only way I can control growth is to change my ticket prices, but my workers are well above my company so will continue to grow too.
Yea, and it gets worse the further in years you get in a save. I assume most players don’t play long term saves so It may not bother them or at least it will take a long time for people to start to noticing which they are and that is encouraging.
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In the original post he specifically mentions this company has a tv deal. I’m not sure why you are harping on that.
Because natural growth limit does not effect live shows...
The company had tiny coverage capping them at a certain popularity outside of their home area. Since they aren’t big enough outside of their home area, they aren’t traveling to break that cap. Since live shows aren’t apart of natural growth limits, they can grow outside of that tiny broadcast coverage they have in their home area...Hence why popularity for that company is so lopsided. That’s why I am harping on it.
To sum it all up. The company’s popularity should be capped with only tiny broadcast coverage in his home area...Atleast while playing with full natural growth limits.
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<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="magik" data-cite="magik" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="52032" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Here is their finances:<p> </p><p> <img alt="1.jpg" data-src="https://i.ibb.co/KwdKwvy/1.jpg" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p> </p><p> Their size:</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> <img alt="2.jpg" data-src="https://i.ibb.co/Ch07kyz/2.jpg" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p> </p><p> They are actually making more in ticket sales and merchandising than USPW in the default database in most of my games without having the expenses and while being several levels below them in size.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> That’s gross.</p>
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<p>And they all had local TV deals. I don’t get that argument about territories unable to be replicated.</p><p> </p><p>
The only difference is that they didn’t have TV deals across the nation...The likes of Bruno and Jerry Lawler were seen on TV locally.</p><p> </p><p>
The point is you should need TV to expand outside of your regular fan base whether that is reach or promotion.</p>
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Exactly. We have discussed how the game is unbalanced in other threads and to use size limits to game the system even further is yet another problem. Like you say, either limiting size should limit growth or maybe the company size isn't chosen by the player, rather works like the perception system. Ie, your company is perceived to be of medium size because of x pop in x areas. Or just scrap it altogether, it's kind of pointless and unrealistic anyway.
Yes, hopefully more tweaks are in the works. It’s really unfortunate. I can’t get into a long term save because of these problems. Some of these problems are old but they stick out more than before because other areas of the game have been improved for the better.
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One example in the real world that limiting their size(via the game) is pwg. They are very well known but have a specific business plan that works on them not becoming too big. Ie they don't tour or stream. You have to either buy a ticket or a DVD to see them which allows them to use a lot of talent who otherwise would be contractually barred from working for them.
Except in TEW, you can limit them to tiny and they would still gain massive popularity and gain massive amount of income. When in reality, they aren’t expanding because they barely make a profit after expenses and they are fine with that.
I said that to say if you limit a company to a specific size then they should be capped at a certain popularity otherwise it’s a easy way to gain massive income while avoiding expenses in an already unbalanced game financially (and popularity)
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I just went through the handbook and found the answer to my issue there. I think it’s an extremely harsh system, I wonder if Adam would consider toning it down or adding an option to disable it for sandbox saves?
Either way, I’m happy I know what to do in the future.
IMO It’s pretty spot on. As mentioned, you only need one worker with high enough pysch to carry the match.
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I don't understand this Suggestion. I think, first we need to understand the size issue. It's my assumption that a Tiny size TV station doesn't automatically mean horrible coverage in the area they are built it. For example a tiny size TV station that has coverage in every area would not be as strong as a tiny size TV station that is based in one area. Resources and all that. Also, even without TV, if you show great shows in an area consistently, naturally you grow. Everyone knows about ROH but they are not on major networks. The logic of it not being as successful doesn't make sense. I live in Philadelphia, never watch and ROH show but I know about it, however, it wasn't until recent times that they have been on a decent network.
Another Example, Puerto Rico, The Colons wrestling promotion is very popular there, and they have high wrestling audience there. They probably have a TV deal but the station is would not be considered Huge, even if it is available in every home in PR. It would still be considered small. So we have to look at it from that perspective as well.
Right, broadcast size is coverage in that region. Tiny isn’t covering much, it’s obscure..A tiny terrestrial station is equivalent of syndicated TV. In no way a wrestling company that’s running a syndicated TV show even if it’s tiny in every region should put up the attendance and money it currently can in the game. ECW pretty much died after they got booted from a bigger TV station and they were “popular”. Hardcore TV was shown everywhere but it wasn’t on a big enough platform to bring in new fans let alone money.
You shouldn’t be able to grow that much on smaller broadcasters let alone only running live events. That’s not how you gain new fans in the real world so you shouldn’t be able to get unlimited popularity in a region by just running live shows there.
As a result of that, you get what the OP is talking about.
It’s a simple fix really. Currently natural growth limits don’t apply to a region you’re running a live show in.
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The workers don’t have a high enough Pysch to pull of 90+ rated segments in their matches.
Sounds like AEW, great athleticism and moves but not much meaning behind them, lack of pace, following rules, etc.
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Quick suggestion, although title is misleading, I feel there should be some consequences to cheaping out on live event experience. I just ran a 34000 attended show all with volunteers, I mean I know the more fans I have the more volunteers I'd get, but that seems like it would be a complete disaster in real life.
I was thinking there should be consequences to keeping it at a low level when running big shows, volunteers should only be for a maximum of say 500 people, if you go between 501-1000 some fans could complain of having a bad experience, go above 1000 and it was terribly organised, go to like a few thousand and it was complete chaos and could cause imagine/prestige/momentum issues, as well as tank the score of your show.
again other levels could be ok up to a couple of thousand or something, but if you are running 10k+ arenas you should probably need to have a full team organising the thing.
The figures I have used are just random, but it would be nice to be forced to improve rather than just saving the money, like I am, and a scale of just how bad it went would also be good, that way you can choose to run the risk to save money, but push too far and you could be screwed
Again, a bit of randomness would also be nice. So say you use volunteers at a 500 attended show, it could be 100% ok, could have slight issues or could go really bad. Volunteers at 1000 attended show could only have slight issues, could be really bad, could be a complete disaster etc. with more chance of the worst outcome higher you get, until you reach a point it is impossible for it to be anything but a complete disaster.
To be honest any show with just volunteers it would be nice to have the chance it goes wrong, even if just 100 people as they are volunteers, you get what you pay for, could be that people say they'll help and just don't show up
Anyway, I've made my point now lol I think it would be a nice addition anyway and anything that forces you to spend money is never a bad thing
Agree. By the in game definition, imagine having an event with 32,000 people and it’s staffed by amateur volunteers.
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<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Snakebite180" data-cite="Snakebite180" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="52038" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Unsure if anyone else has noticed this - on ALL real life mods. The companies are getting really high buy-rates. For example: one I am playing now WWE are getting 4.2million PPV buy-rates and TNA getting 2.2million. As a result it is making the companies SUPER RICH. When you compare the buy-rates to the TV viewers, what you see is the PPVs are getting much more buys than TV viewers.<p> </p><p> The only way I can fix this at the moment is to edit all the PPV carriers to either 'tiny' or 'very small' - which is fine as it works but I am wondering what others are doing to combat this?</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> That’s weird, a patch must have adjusted it because previously the buy rates were absolutely way too low ($3 for a PPV) </p><p> </p><p> Maybe the carriers are too big now? I personally would go into the ERA setting and reduce PPV viewers to massively lower.</p>
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<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="TheChef" data-cite="TheChef" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="52032" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Right, for me it's WoW Shadowlands and Cyberpunk. Those should take up a few months. Maybe check back with TEW in the spring.<p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> <strong>Agreed, the support for stability and bugs has been absolutely first class. Beyond that, though, there's been no suggestions implemented nor balancing done. The game is great in shorter bursts, saves of up to about 2 years, but it's completely unviable for long-term games. Finances, skill increases and popularity gains are all so inflated long-term that the game world becomes unplayable. There also seems to be complete silence on these issues from Adam; I'd be happy if it even was just acknowledged that a problem exists and is being looked into.</strong></p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> I wouldn't go as far as to say Adam needs replaced, it's his game after all, but it certainly has reached a point where a major change needs to happen. The programming language is the real issue. TEW 2020 could have been released in 2005 as exactly the same game. I get that it has evolved from a design point of view, but in terms of hardware and software, nothing the game does has moved forward. So many great ideas and fixes for this series have to be rejected purely due to the limits of the language.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Definitely agree with that. Even though majority of the bugs fixed was during that extended beta.</p>
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The only counter to that is that what you're describing is pretty much every territory in the 70s and 80s, just without the arenas being that big (in the 8-15k range with the odd Shea Stadium show by the WWWF). So, if you capped arena max size per level, I wouldn't be horribly opposed to that being in there. No human player is going to play a fed like that a ton (outside of Mammoth's upcoming 1970 mod and the C-Verse 1977 mod), and you can still sign nearly everyone once you're bigger than they are so it's not like they're going to hurt you. Is it ugly to look at? Yes. Is it something utterly gamebreaking? Not really.
Also, what year are you watching in that mod? That mod starts in the 1920s so if you're pre-cable in the 1970s, that may be why they're stuck with essentially local tv, especially if the big networks are properly set to require large pop in nearly all the US regions to get on them which is impossible for a non-touring fed to do. Plus, as you noted, it makes no financial sense to go bust into another region to just get stuck on the same garbage local TV.
But I haven't played or even downloaded that mod in this version or played the game much at all due to the angle pop issue that no one will ever present a solution for or Adam has patched. That just kills any chance of boosting anyone out of obscurity or really building anyone with the regular TV and big monthly event model. The bad thing is that it has also killed any interest in going back to 2016 too. It's about time to start suggesting that Arlie find another game designer to take this over. Adam seems burnt out (he's been doing this pretty much the entire new century so that's a justifiable thing. Sid Meier made 2 Civ games, Wright made 2 or 3 SimCity games and 1 Sims game, I think. Point is no one stays on one series this long.) and the game has exceeded what the programming language can do. I'd hate for Adam to go out on a dud, both from the glaring issues and the utter dearth of mods, but this is the first one that is functionally worse than its predecessor even with several great new features.
But even biggest territories had TV deals. I don’t think you should be able to grow so big with only live shows. That’s just not realistic.
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The game has been out for six months now and the patches have slowed to a trickle. Yet, like you say, it's still wildly unbalanced. Do you think there's any chance it's ever going to be balanced or is this as good as the game is going to get? Nothing in this suggestions forum has been implemented either, so maybe we're stuck with a flawed game.
Idk to be honest. These things have been already reported without any fix let alone feedback. I haven’t t been playing this game that much lately. FM and a few other games will be out soon...
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<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="magik" data-cite="magik" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="52032" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Using patch 1.22<p> </p><p> I'm running a watcher game using the Effganic mod.</p><p> </p><p> A company has these key popularity:</p><p> Mid Atlantic 71</p><p> Tri State 34</p><p> South East 34</p><p> </p><p> They have:</p><p> A weekly TV (1h) (on a broadcaster with Tiny coverage in these regions)</p><p> Weekly events (1h30) (not broadcasted)</p><p> </p><p> Their last attendances were:</p><p> Weekly event - Mid Atlantic - 29,831</p><p> Weekly TV - Tri State - 185</p><p> Weekly event - Mid Atlantic - 29,944</p><p> Weekly TV - Tri State - 190</p><p> Weekly event - Mid Atlantic - 29,562</p><p> Weekly TV - Tri State - 210</p><p> Weekly event - Mid Atlantic - 30,711</p><p> Weekly TV - Tri State - 205</p><p> </p><p> Their key monthly revenues where:</p><p> Ticket sales: 3,009,100</p><p> Merchandise: 3,103,802</p><p> </p><p> This company currently has +90M in the bank. 6 others have +15M.</p><p> </p><p> I think companies should have a "stronger incentive" to grow in size and not be able to turn a profit that is so high at lower levels.</p><p> </p><p> Could a limit on attendance relative to company size possibly be considered?</p><p> </p><p> I wasn't sure if this issue is tech related or a suggestion.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> The problem is that it’s unbalanced at the moment.</p><p> </p><p> There is no cap for popularity when running live shows but tiny tv coverage elsewhere will slow their popularity growth to areas not running any live shows, hence why their popularity is so lopsided. They have no incentive to travel outside and expand because they can easily get all the money in that one area and traveling would probably lose them money. </p><p> </p><p> IMO, you should need tv coverage to grow. Tiny tv coverage and only running local shows shouldn’t get you 70* popularity in that area. You should only be able to grow so much running live shows with an obscure TV show (lack of promotion, eyes on the product, etc) Even the popular territory companies had big TV deals.</p><p> </p><p> That company would probably have no more than 45 popularity in the mid Atlantic if it was more balanced and tv size matter for your home region.</p>
"All angles are scripted"
in Total Extreme Wrestling 2020 Suggestions
Posted
Yea I would love to see specific attributes for this as well. CM Punk would definitely have a attribute