Planning an alternate history 1997 mod

[Lucied]

Hey all. I'm going to attempt my first mod, and I'm looking for some feedback. It's going to be an alternate history 1997 mod, built on Montreal Aftermath (yes I got permission, and many thanks to the author). In the real world, Vince McMahon told Bret Hart to negotiate with WCW, because the WWF couldn't afford his 20 year deal. Bret initially refused, but Vince insisted. Bret negotiated and signed with WCW, which ultimately lead to the Montreal Screwjob. The alternate history is, Bret and Vince renegotiated his deal down to a level at which the WWF could afford to keep him. However, at the beginning of November, leading into the Survivor Series, Bret and Shawn got into a big argument, which lead to an all-out brawl. Witnesses, including The Undertaker, claimed Shawn started the whole thing, and provoked Bret. Vince, furious that such childlike behavior would go on backstage, got into a verbal battle with Shawn. As a result, Shawn was fired. Triple H, who had been present, and helped pull Shawn apart from Bret, had heated words with Vince over the firing. Triple H ended up quitting. Bret stayed with the company, as Vince believed that Bret was only defending himself. The WWF scrambled to find a new Survivor Series opponent for Bret, but Hart would successfully defend his title at the event. Michaels and Triple H would join their friends Hall and Nash in WCW, and The Outsiders would grow to four members within the nWo. Unable to use their gimmick names, they would go by their real names (or other gimmick names, of course; that's undecided). On the other side, Vince McMahon, no longer having the catalyst for the Mr. McMahon character, remained a babyface personality, instead of becoming a heel authority figure. So, that is the setup. The starting point would likely be the same as the Montreal Aftermath, that being December 1997. Several things would need to be edited. The contracts of Bret Hart, Davey Boy Smith, and Jim Neidhart would have to be set to WWF, while Shawn Michaels and Triple H would need to be moved to WCW. Shawn's name would need to be edited, as well, since he can't take the name with him. Also, the worker relations for Bret, Smith, Neidhart, Michaels, and HHH would need to be edited to reflect the changes in the story. The Outsiders may likely have to be made into a Stable, to accompany the four members. DX would have to be removed. Now, after all that, is anyone interested in playing a mod like this? Also, what other things should be changed? How do you see this ultimately affecting the rest of the wrestling business, and not just WWF/WCW? Should the start date be changed, to allow for more changes in the industry? How far back should the changes start? I'm open to all suggestions :)

[TeemuFoundation]

Interesting. That would have never happened, but interesting. I suppose it would have been Austin facing off with Hart for the title. I would have marked for an Owen vs. Austin vs. Bret Triple Threat match. But one thing to note: I'm pretty sure Shawn would have been able to use his name in WCW, as well. As far as I know, Shawn never liked the name "Michael" and was always called "Shawn" ever since he was a kid. And he is Michael SHAWN Hickenbottom, so I'm guessing the WWF can't find a law to prevent Shawn from using his own second name. I'm not sure about the "Michaels" part, though. But it needs to be changed because "Hickenbottom" will _not_ get you over. Kinda pointless, I guess, my wanted to point this out.

[Lucied]

[QUOTE=TeemuFoundation;239995]Interesting. That would have never happened, but interesting.[/QUOTE] I was mainly inspired by The Fall, which I don't think was very likely to happen, either. That's the beauty of alternate history ;) As for Shawn's name, I was referring to the full name, of course, but you seem to know that already. And I agree that Hickenbottom would likely be changed. Paul LeVesque could get away with using his real name. But Shawn would definitely need some change. Someone else on the board was looking for a mod that started in the beginning of 1997, to include Brian Pillman. So, I had an idea that maybe, in the alternate history of this mod, Brian found out about his heart condition (or never had it), and ended up not dying. It's all just ideas at this point. I'd like to get an idea of what all needs done before I start. And if Pillman ends up being in the mod, then I'd need someone to do his stats. Because I am not good with that stuff.

[jgriff3029]

I'm just guessing that he could be Shawn Michaels since he used the name before joining the WWE. Also Marty Jannetty used his name outside of the WWE and I don't believe that is his real name. (Could be wrong though.)

[tommytomlin]

[QUOTE=Lucied;240007]I was mainly inspired by The Fall, which I don't think was very likely to happen, either. That's the beauty of alternate history ;) [/QUOTE] LIES! THE FALL IS COMPLETELY PLAUSIBLE!! All it requires is the simultaneous creation of 14 new wrestling promotions and the ruin of the biggest wrestling empire ever. That's easy. It happened last week.

[ubernoob]

[QUOTE=tommytomlin;240148]LIES! THE FALL IS COMPLETELY PLAUSIBLE!! All it requires is the simultaneous creation of 14 new wrestling promotions and the ruin of the biggest wrestling empire ever. That's easy. It happened last week.[/QUOTE] Multiple times, at that. So as a running total that is 5 empires ruined, and 70 new promotions in 7 days. Impressive. Anyways... I think keeping the dead people dead should be done. Kinda creepy (at least to myself) playing with a Pillman or a Hennig in a 200x mod. So if it comes to a vote that would be my vote. Interesting history though, nice thoughts.

[Lucied]

[QUOTE=tommytomlin;240148]LIES! THE FALL IS COMPLETELY PLAUSIBLE!! All it requires is the simultaneous creation of 14 new wrestling promotions and the ruin of the biggest wrestling empire ever. That's easy. It happened last week.[/QUOTE] Heh. The Fall has actually got me hooked. Playing as FPW, I'm having a difficult time getting past Cult status. But, I absolutely love it. I guess it's the lure of the "fantasy" setting, where it isn't fully based in actual history. I wish there were more real life mods that were set in a twisted version of wrestling history. I think my idea is a very minor alteration compared to The Fall or other possible options.

[Lucied]

I think I've finished the editing. I'm actually disappointed on how little there was. I'm thinking my idea was a bit too small of a historical change. Granted, looking at the actual history of the industry, it was a major shift. But looking at the initial fallout, it doesn't really seem like a big deal. I need something more earth-shattering. What other events around that time could I screw with? One idea is that I could advance the game to 1998, and really screw with the timeline. Anyone have any ideas? One thing could be that, with the absence of the screwjob, and the Mr. McMahon character, along with the loss of Michaels and LeVesque, the WWF (circa December 1998) has struggled to find a way to compete with WCW. Meanwhile, ECW, not being smothered by two hot national companies, has started to thrive as fans turn away from WWF. And perhaps, with their unrivaled success, WCW has started to go into excess faster than they did in the real timeline. Another thing I need help with is a name for this thing. I suck at names. :( All in all, I'm still trying to get together some ideas for this thing. I want to really change things up. Give people something interesting to play.

[tommytomlin]

I agree - jump to 1998 and mess things up, big-time. Have Jarrett stay in WCW and keep the Horsemen going. Have the WWF bring back SID~! to plug the holes in their main event. X-Pac stays in WCW because of the renewed power of the Clique. Maybe Randy Savage, angry at his lack of push in WCW, jumps back to the WWF? This was rumoured in 1998/99, so it is feasible.

[Lucied]

[QUOTE=tommytomlin;240551]I agree - jump to 1998 and mess things up, big-time. Have Jarrett stay in WCW and keep the Horsemen going. Have the WWF bring back SID~! to plug the holes in their main event. X-Pac stays in WCW because of the renewed power of the Clique. Maybe Randy Savage, angry at his lack of push in WCW, jumps back to the WWF? This was rumoured in 1998/99, so it is feasible.[/QUOTE] Sounds good. Are there any good online resources for this kind of thing? I don't really recall a lot of details, and I didn't have a computer, or any of the newsletters back in that era, so I didn't really know any of the behind-the-scenes stuff. So, either I'd need a good website, or I'd need a historian to help out.

[tommytomlin]

[url]http://www.onlineworldofwrestling.com/results/index.html[/url] has results and bios from that time period, as does [url]http://www.100megsfree4.com/wiawrestling/wiamain.htm[/url]

[Lucied]

[QUOTE=tommytomlin;240557][url]http://www.onlineworldofwrestling.com/results/index.html[/url] has results and bios from that time period, as does [url]http://www.100megsfree4.com/wiawrestling/wiamain.htm[/url][/QUOTE] I didn't realize Obsessed With Wrestling changed their URL. I went to the old one, and it looked very different. But seemed to have the same information. Anyway, looking at those sites, it occurred to me... If I'm going to change things around, I really can't go by real history, now can I? After all, one change can have a great impact on history. So who says something that happened in the real world would have happened in this game world? Of course, I'm going to have to keep track of all my changes, so I can properly tell the events leading up to the start of the game :) I can work with this, to an extent, as I'm told I'm a good writer. But I could still use help to keep it more anchored in reality. Like, I could see Randy Savage making the jump back, as he may not have liked the power that the Clique had backstage. In fact, it may cause many guys to jump to WWF. Or even ECW. Maybe some of the cruisers that WCW took from ECW got tired of the politics and went back to ECW? I could really run with this, now that I think about it.

[djthefunkchris]

It would be kind of fascinating to me, if somehow the three promotions become.... More balanced. IF they all were around national or international status at the beginning of the game for example. WCW in the lead, WWF second, then ECW third, each with strong backings in what they consider as "Home" Turf.

[Lucied]

[QUOTE=djthefunkchris;240570]It would be kind of fascinating to me, if somehow the three promotions become.... More balanced. IF they all were around national or international status at the beginning of the game for example. WCW in the lead, WWF second, then ECW third, each with strong backings in what they consider as "Home" Turf.[/QUOTE] I'm not sure if ECW would make that much of an expansion in about a year. They're set at Regional in Montreal Aftermath. Of course, I could set them to a high Cult level. WCW, if I remember correctly, ran the nWo angle too far, and didn't know what to do to capitalize on it after it ran its course. They kept running it. So, with WWF not having the big comback in 1998, thanks to the lack of Mr. McMahon, and WCW running the nWo gimmick into the ground, I guess ECW could have made a big play for the audience. So, maybe on the verge of being National, but not quite there. Meanwhile, WWF and WCW have lost some prestige, and popularity, to the rising ECW. It could work.

[dvdWarrior]

[QUOTE=Lucied;240542]Another thing I need help with is a name for this thing. I suck at names. :([/QUOTE] I'd be tempted to make a play on on Star Trek's famous Mirror Universe, and call it The Dark Mirror or The Broken Mirror or just The Mirror Universe or something. Or you could take inspiration from the movie The Butterfly Effect, and it's "Change One Thing, Change Everything" slogan. Seems like it might fit. Just a few random thoughts I had. :o

[Lucied]

[QUOTE=dvdWarrior;240578]I'd be tempted to make a play on on Star Trek's famous Mirror Universe, and call it The Dark Mirror or The Broken Mirror or just The Mirror Universe or something. Or you could take inspiration from the movie The Butterfly Effect, and it's "Change One Thing, Change Everything" slogan. Seems like it might fit. Just a few random thoughts I had. :o[/QUOTE] I was thinking "Without Montreal" or something along those lines. Or maybe "1997: A New Hope." (I'm a Star Wars fan, Tekkie :p ;)) Just as a note to myself, I changed the overness of ECW, WCW, and WWF. Changed Savage to WWF. Put Tajiri and Super Crazy to ECW. Created Insane Luchadore gimmick for Super Crazy. Changed Tajiri's English skills to Fluent (it's been said, numerous times, that Tajiri is actually fluent in English, and that he pretended he wasn't as a rib on the guys backstage; as reported by guys, like Dave Scherer, who were backstage at ECW, and running ECWWrestling.com, when Tajiri was in the company). I also created the nWo Wolfpack, and renamed nWo to nWo Hollywood, to reflect the "split nWo" story from 1998. Considering adding more nWo groups, as a sign of WCW's unwillingness to retire the story/gimmick. Or adding the LWO, but I'm debating whether or not the cruisers (mainly Benoit, Malenko, and Eddie Guerrero) should go back to ECW because of the politics in WCW with the full Clique present.

[tommytomlin]

You HAVE to keep Benoit and Eddie in WCW for the dream matches with HBK!~

[KeyserSoze]

I was thinkering a little the Carlitos's mod in this approach, but slightly different. I was working in almost all DGeneration leaving the WWF, but instead of joining the WCW beggining a new company with the NWO, that left the WCW because Hulk is a pain in the a$$. :D

[shamelessposer]

[QUOTE=tommytomlin;240581]You HAVE to keep Benoit and Eddie in WCW for the dream matches with HBK!~[/QUOTE] Agreed. Benoit and Eddie also need to be in WCW to help balance out all of the old guys in the main event. Putting them in ECW seems like kind of a cheat and an easy way to unintentionally turn ECW into a super promotion. How about Levesque and Saturn being a tag team? They're both Kowalski students and they apparently teamed in the indies before they each got their big breaks. Jericho going to WWF could make sense too, as WWF tries to make a "new Shawn Michaels."

[Lucied]

[QUOTE=shamelessposer;240650]Agreed. Benoit and Eddie also need to be in WCW to help balance out all of the old guys in the main event. Putting them in ECW seems like kind of a cheat and an easy way to unintentionally turn ECW into a super promotion. How about Levesque and Saturn being a tag team? They're both Kowalski students and they apparently teamed in the indies before they each got their big breaks. Jericho going to WWF could make sense too, as WWF tries to make a "new Shawn Michaels."[/QUOTE] Ok. Jericho to WWF, done. The ECW roster could use a lot of work, due to the rise from Regional to Cult, and only 1% away (in the Great Lakes region) from being National. They could also use a national television show (not sure what network) and more PPV clearance. Aside from that, I'll need to do a lot of work bringing all title histories forward one year. I'll need input on that. Who should have a reign with what titles? Also, how about international changes? I really don't know anything about Japanese, Mexican, UK/Europe, or even Canadian promotions, and I know very little about the smaller US promotions from that era. Another thing I wanted some input on was, Adam Copeland, Christian Cage, and Matt and Jeff Hardy. Should they be in WWF? If I recall correctly, they did sign with WWF around 1998. Should they be there, or ECW, WCW, or remain where they are in BCW/OMEGA (respectively)? Looking at how much those four, along with the Dudley Boyz, impacted wrestling in 1999/2000, I think it'd be interesting to see which company would get them. In the cases of Copeland and Cage, they've become major stars in recent years. While the Hardys still remain very popular in their own right. EDIT: I gave ECW a slot on MTV on Fridays at 9:00. I think they'd more fit the MTV style than the other networks in the game.

[shamelessposer]

[QUOTE=Lucied;240771]Aside from that, I'll need to do a lot of work bringing all title histories forward one year. I'll need input on that. Who should have a reign with what titles?[/quote] Benoit, Malenko and Eddie Guerrero seem like they would've been held down even more with the new guys coming in. I'd make sure none of them are auto-pushed higher than the midcard. Saturn might not exactly tear down the house, but I think his connection to Levesque would at least make him a non-entity in politics rather than a victim. Goldberg would still be a presence in the main event scene but I don't think he'd be the champion at any point in the year. Sting would almost have had to have gone over at Starrcade, but his reign was probably pretty short. Maybe Michaels filled the Hart role at Starrcade, then turned on Sting on the following Nitro? I'd say that Flair stays away from the gold. If you [i]really[/i] want to shake things up, take him off the WCW roster and put him on hiatus, as growing creative differences with Bischoff caused him to take some time off instead of renewing his contract. Seeing him in WWF in 1998 would be a real "holy ****" moment, but just imagine how an ECW crowd would react to Flair. It'd be... interesting, at the very least. [quote]Also, how about international changes? I really don't know anything about Japanese, Mexican, UK/Europe, or even Canadian promotions, and I know very little about the smaller US promotions from that era.[/quote] Hayabusa going to ECW as a steady midcard presence and a large number of the WCW luchadores heading back to Mexico seems right to me. The WCW/NJPW working agreement may have ended earlier, too. Canada's scene would probably have been pretty much gutted. With the Harts remaining WWF loyalists, there's a good chance the promotion could take on a more "Canadian" feel. [quote]Another thing I wanted some input on was, Adam Copeland, Christian Cage, and Matt and Jeff Hardy. Should they be in WWF? If I recall correctly, they did sign with WWF around 1998. Should they be there, or ECW, WCW, or remain where they are in BCW/OMEGA (respectively)? Looking at how much those four, along with the Dudley Boyz, impacted wrestling in 1999/2000, I think it'd be interesting to see which company would get them. In the cases of Copeland and Cage, they've become major stars in recent years. While the Hardys still remain very popular in their own right.[/QUOTE] Copeland and Christian to WWF and the Hardyz to ECW? If the Hardyz go to ECW, they'd most likely take a lot of the other OMEGA guys with them. Ooh! Maybe the OMEGA guys (minus Jeff Hardy) went to WCW to fill the holes in the cruiserweight division after the luchadores left! Jeff seems like he would've been a little too high-risk for them. If he'd been hired he wouldn't have lasted long and probably would have found his way to ECW.

[Lucied]

[QUOTE=shamelessposer;240787]Benoit, Malenko and Eddie Guerrero seem like they would've been held down even more with the new guys coming in. I'd make sure none of them are auto-pushed higher than the midcard. Saturn might not exactly tear down the house, but I think his connection to Levesque would at least make him a non-entity in politics rather than a victim. Goldberg would still be a presence in the main event scene but I don't think he'd be the champion at any point in the year. Sting would almost have had to have gone over at Starrcade, but his reign was probably pretty short. Maybe Michaels filled the Hart role at Starrcade, then turned on Sting on the following Nitro? I'd say that Flair stays away from the gold. If you [i]really[/i] want to shake things up, take him off the WCW roster and put him on hiatus, as growing creative differences with Bischoff caused him to take some time off instead of renewing his contract. Seeing him in WWF in 1998 would be a real "holy ****" moment, but just imagine how an ECW crowd would react to Flair. It'd be... interesting, at the very least. Hayabusa going to ECW as a steady midcard presence and a large number of the WCW luchadores heading back to Mexico seems right to me. The WCW/NJPW working agreement may have ended earlier, too. Canada's scene would probably have been pretty much gutted. With the Harts remaining WWF loyalists, there's a good chance the promotion could take on a more "Canadian" feel. Copeland and Christian to WWF and the Hardyz to ECW? If the Hardyz go to ECW, they'd most likely take a lot of the other OMEGA guys with them. Ooh! Maybe the OMEGA guys (minus Jeff Hardy) went to WCW to fill the holes in the cruiserweight division after the luchadores left! Jeff seems like he would've been a little too high-risk for them. If he'd been hired he wouldn't have lasted long and probably would have found his way to ECW.[/QUOTE] All that sounds great. But how about international titles? Should I just stick with the real title lineage? Or should those areas be affected in a larger capacity?

[Lucied]

Just a quick, and possibly amusing note. I ran the game, as I have it currently, for two days to see how things go. First odd thing is Jim Cornette signed with ECW. I don't know when he started hating Paul Heyman, but it did seem odd. Another thing I found amusing was, looking at the Media page, there are several stories about RVD and his loyalty to ECW. Eight companies attempted to negotiate with RVD (so far), and all eight were snubbed. There are stories of him turning down FMW, NJPW, M-Pro, WWWA, JAPW, OVW, OMEGA, and EWF. I'm stunned at how hot a talent RVD seems to be in this game, the way it is currently set up. And I didn't even make any alterations to RVD. One other interesting thing is Jerry Lawler signed with AJW (that's All Japan Women's Pro Wrestling). I guess he likes Asian puppies, too ;) Oh, and New Japan held their Silver Explodes show in Temporary Data #26. Someone needs to help with locations in Japan. (Or at least point me toward a good Locations file.) EDIT: Current changes - OMEGA is gone. Matt and Jeff went to ECW. Copeland and Christian went to WWF. C.W. Anderson is in ECW. Flair is gone from WCW, and on hiatus. Rick Rude is back in WWF, but still under his PPA deal. Hayabusa has a PPA with ECW and FMW. Edited the Copeland/Cage team, the New Foundation team (as it's Owen Hart and Jim Neidhart), added the original Hart Foundation team, and added the Hardy Boyz team. Hogan is still champ, but Sting and Michaels had runs with the title in the past year. I lowered Benoit's popularity, in hopes that it will put him lower in the card (to simulate being held back). NJPW and WCW no longer have a working agreement. WCW and AAA's working agreement has turned to a Non-Aggression Pact. ECW and WCW are now hostile. I haven't adjusted any stats, and I'm not sure if I really need to. And I think that's it for this round of changes.

[shamelessposer]

[QUOTE=Lucied;240794]All that sounds great. But how about international titles? Should I just stick with the real title lineage? Or should those areas be affected in a larger capacity?[/QUOTE] If I had to guess, Mysterio and Juvi would both have been HUGE on the lucha scene around that time if they'd left WCW. If Rey has left, I'd make him the AAA champion or something.

[Lucied]

[QUOTE=shamelessposer;240853]If I had to guess, Mysterio and Juvi would both have been HUGE on the lucha scene around that time if they'd left WCW. If Rey has left, I'd make him the AAA champion or something.[/QUOTE] Juvi was still in AAA in the original version of this mod. Anyway, lets see if I can remember all I did this time. I imported Joel Gertner from the December 2000 mod (I forget the name) because he's apparently not in the Montreal Aftermath mod. I put him with ECW. Then I worked on title history. Mainly the WCW Cruiserweight title. The belt went from Eddie to Syxx to Rey Mysterio Jr. Then Rey left WCW to return to AAA, while he was champ, leaving the title vacant for almost two months (I think I'll leave it vacant for the start of the game). One thing I noticed was, in the Montreal Aftermath mod, AAA has IWC titles. But in other mods, AAA has their own AAA titles. Was the IWC thing sort of like New Japan's IWGP? Or was it something else? I don't follow lucha. Also, I really need to do some tweaking to make ECW's roster more balanced. And by balanced, I mean good. I've run several tests, and ECW shows tend to get around a D rating. WWF shows tend to do D+ or C-, but the concept is that they're struggling, and have only recently started shifting toward the "Attitude era" mindset. And WCW has been doing shows around C. So maybe they could use some balancing, as well. Maybe it's just how the AI books shows, but I think it's a talent thing as well. I could see a lot of wrestlers that I would dump if I were in charge. But that doesn't necessarily mean that I should. No company should be a super promotion, but at the same time, if ECW is going to be on the verge of being National, they need to be putting on much better shows. And I don't know how else to make that happen. Beyond actually playing as the booker of ECW.