Size/Weight '08 style

[djthefunkchris]

Included size's Very Small Small Lightweight Middleweight Light Heavyweight Heavyweight Big Heavyweight Super Heavyweight Giant I would like to get some estimations on how to figure these, in relationship to gameplay. Specifically the Light Heavyweight, if that's the only one that's different then the one's from '07. I know it doesn't solely go by weight, however, the descriptions in '07 help quite a bit when deciding the size of your worker. Similar to '07 (which I include below) Very Small - Barely 100 Small - Most Female wrestler's, smallest of Men Lightweight - 170 to 215 Middleweight - 220 - 280 Heavyweight - 280 - 320 Large Heavyweight - 320 - 350 Super Heavyweight - 350+ Giant - 400+ (or 7' +) (Tester's or Adam please, if available. I don't mind opinions, but really would like something concrete (even if only to say "X" opinion is accurate).

[Mr T Jobs To Me]

I would say height is the only consideration for Giant size. Girth can't push you past Super Heavyweight status.

[djthefunkchris]

[QUOTE=Mr T Jobs To Me;427607]I would say height is the only consideration for Giant size. Girth can't push you past Super Heavyweight status.[/QUOTE] /nod. I'm mostly curious as to the change to '08, with the addition of the Light Heavyweight, coming between the Middleweight and Heavyweight area, and how that offsets the others. Example: Following '07 version off the the right. Very Small - Barely 100 Same Small - Most Female wrestler's, smallest of Men Same Lightweight - 170 to 215 170 to ?200 Middleweight - 220 - 280 ?200 to 240 Light Heavyweight ?? ?240 to 280 Heavyweight - 280 - 320 Same Large Heavyweight - 320 - 350 Same Super Heavyweight - 350+ Same Giant - 400+ (or 7' +) Same Like I said, I know that it's just a reference, but the reference is very helpful for me.

[Adam Ryland]

I'll post definitions later. D-Lyrium's is actually quite a fair way off (:confused: ), so I wouldn't use that.

[D-Lyrium]

Awww :( I'm usually good at this stuff :p

[Chriswok]

[QUOTE=D-Lyrium;427635]Awww :( I'm usually good at this stuff :p[/QUOTE] It was a good try A FOR EFFORT! :D

[Adam Ryland]

[QUOTE=djthefunkchris;427609]/nod. I'm mostly curious as to the change to '08, with the addition of the Light Heavyweight, coming between the Middleweight and Heavyweight area, and how that offsets the others.[/QUOTE] Very Small: Smaller female wrestlers, small male non-wrestlers. Small: Female wrestlers, small male wrestlers like Rey Mysterio. Lightweight: Very large female wrestlers, male wrestlers who are under the 230lb mark Middleweight: Around 230 - 260lb wrestlers Light Heavyweight: 260 - 290lbers Heavyweight: 290 - 320lbers Large Heavyweight: 320 - 380lbers Super Heavyweight: 380lb + Giant: Obvious special cases like Big Show, Andre, etc. It is vital to remember that although weights are given as a guide, size takes into account height, weight and body shape, and so isn't a precise stat. For example, I think The Undertaker is now being billed at around 300lbs these days, but I would put him in the Large Heavyweight category due to his height and generally imposing physique. Similarly, although HBK and Bret Hart were both billed at 234lbs at one point, I'd have had HBK as a Lightweight and Hart as a Middleweight due to their different physiques.

[djthefunkchris]

Thankyou very much. That helps quite a bit.

[Bucky Sinister]

Holy crap! Vince McMahon's size queen mentality really has warped the weight classes, hasn't it? I think you reach Heavyweight in boxing at a little over 200 lbs, and I think it's 250 or so in MMA. Damn. I guess pro wrestling has become the sport of giants.

[Jennie Bomb]

In boxing, Heavyweight is over 200lbs, and in MMA's Unified Rules, it's over 205 and no more than 265lbs. But, we're not talking sporting weight classes, we're talking wrestling weight classes, which are entirely different.

[djthefunkchris]

[QUOTE=Bucky Sinister;427797]Holy crap! Vince McMahon's size queen mentality really has warped the weight classes, hasn't it? I think you reach Heavyweight in boxing at a little over 200 lbs, and I think it's 250 or so in MMA. Damn. I guess pro wrestling has become the sport of giants.[/QUOTE] Wrestler's were always bigger, historically... there are more small wrestler's NOW then there ever was before (and before McMahan).

[The Bus]

Theyre totally different as the other sports have the fighters to keep the weight down to stay inside weight limitations and they usually also drop significant amount of weight. In rasslin' guys try gain weight as much as possible to be better looking and the weight is also sometimes exaggerated by the companies/workers to make them look bigger and stronger.

[Bucky Sinister]

[QUOTE=djthefunkchris;427804]Wrestler's were always bigger, historically... there are more small wrestler's NOW then there ever was before (and before McMahan).[/QUOTE] The influx of Japanese and Mexican styles into American wrestling in the 90s certainly brought more small fast guys into the industry, I'll agree. But I'm thinking more about what's considered "Heavyweight" specifically. Guys who were considered Heavyweights in the 70s and 80s who would come up as Middleweights or less by the scale outlined here. Ric Flair is the first one who comes to mind. Flair's not a small man, but he was dwarfed by Barry Windham, who came off as a Large Heavyweight back when they were both tooling around Mid-Atlantic Championship Wrestling. So did Hogan, when he did a heel run in Florida and faced off with their resident giant, the Mighty Igor. And now I think that both Windham and Hogan would be considered Heavyweights. I'm not arguing with the weight classes, per se, you understand. I think they're pretty accurate for the modern WWE. And, like it or not, that's become the industry standard. I was just commenting on how big the Heavyweights have become in comparison to the guys I watched when I was a kid. (All that said, I do generally adjust the weight classes more to my liking for my own home brew data. But that's my game, and nobody else has to agree with it.) EDIT: I probably shouldn't have used the boxing/MMA weight classes as a point of comparison in my initial post. I just always remember that Mike Tyson was a tiny bit smaller than Shawn Michaels back when Tyson made his Attitude-era WWF appearances, and that's always blown my mind. When Adam said that he considers Michaels a Lightweight, that was the first thing that occurred to me.

[Dolfanar]

Ok, to be fair to Adam, he has said repeatedly that his size categories should NEVER be equated to weight classes. In Wrestling a Heavyweight is generally about 220+ pounds. A Light Heavyweight is about 200-220. To help avoid confusion, it might be a smart idea for Adam to change the name of "Light Heavyweight" to "Small Heavyweight". And ofcourse there is no law saying that you MUSt interpret the zize cats exactly as prescribed (PErsonally I wouldn't rate too many men in the Small-Very Small categories unless they were midgets... or Spike Dudley).

[Dolfanar]

[QUOTE=Bucky Sinister;427826](All that said, I do generally adjust the weight classes more to my liking for my own home brew data. But that's my game, and nobody else has to agree with it.)[/QUOTE] Same here. I'll likely go with something like: 100-130 Very Small 131-160 Small 161-190 Lightweight 191-220 Middleweight 221-260 Light Heavyweight 261-300 Heavyweight 301-360 Large Heavyweight 361-450 Super Heavyweight 451+ Giant

[Adam Ryland]

[QUOTE=Dolfanar;427828]To help avoid confusion, it might be a smart idea for Adam to change the name of "Light Heavyweight" to "Small Heavyweight".[/QUOTE] It's Light Heavyweight for a reason - the more obvious Small Heavyweight can't be used as it would be "SHW" which would clash with the Super Heavyweight designation. Plus I just don't like the term Small Heavyweight, as it has negative connotations.

[The Bus]

[QUOTE=Dolfanar;427828]Ok, to be fair to Adam, he has said repeatedly that his size categories should NEVER be equated to weight classes. In Wrestling a Heavyweight is generally about 220+ pounds. A Light Heavyweight is about 200-220. To help avoid confusion, it might be a smart idea for Adam to change the name of "Light Heavyweight" to "Small Heavyweight". And ofcourse there is no law saying that you MUSt interpret the zize cats exactly as prescribed (PErsonally I wouldn't rate too many men in the Small-Very Small categories unless they were midgets... or Spike Dudley).[/QUOTE] "Light Heavyweight" is a more common term than "Small Heavyweight" and therefore, IMO, better. And if you didn't notice Adam posted definitions of the weight classes a few posts up.

[Dolfanar]

[QUOTE=Adam Ryland;427832]It's Light Heavyweight for a reason - the more obvious Small Heavyweight can't be used as it would be "SHW" which would clash with the Super Heavyweight designation.[/QUOTE] How about Lesser Heavyweight? Again, just a thought.

[Dolfanar]

[QUOTE=The Bus;427835]"Light Heavyweight" is a more common term than "Small Heavyweight" and therefore, IMO, better. [/QUOTE] Exactly... that's the point. "Light Heavyweight" actually means something in Boxing, MMA and Wrestling. it is a weight class. In NO sport would a 260 pound man (Think Triple H!) be classified a "Light Heavyweight". Therefore it is very misleading.

[Adam Ryland]

[QUOTE=Dolfanar;427836]How about Lesser Heavyweight? Again, just a thought.[/QUOTE] No, because it sounds awful. Anyway, not really looking for a debate on the subject, so please no more suggestions.

[Mr T Jobs To Me]

[QUOTE=Adam Ryland;427839]No, because it sounds awful. Anyway, not really looking for a debate on the subject, so please no more suggestions.[/QUOTE] Not-So Heavyweight. That's mine.

[djthefunkchris]

Tew is set up for the breakdown in weights, not for a "Divisional" rating of everyone.... IF you did that, then "Technically", you wouldn't be able to break anyone down to represent difference's between people over 300pounds... There is a HUGE difference between 320 pounds of muscle, and 450 pounds of girth.... Just saying. The normal breakdown for Pro-Wrestling goes something like this.. [B]Welterweight:[/B] weight limit of 172 lb (78 kg) [B]Middleweight:[/B] weight limit of 192 lb (87 kg) [B]Light heavyweight:[/B] weight limit of 214 lb (97 kg) [B]Junior heavyweight:[/B] older term for cruiserweight, used mainly in Japan [B]Cruiserweight:[/B] The weight limit varies from promotion and time period, but generally includes all wrestlers under a certain weight limit. The lowest weight limit ever used for cruiserweights is 215 lb (98 kg) and the highest is believed to be 235 lb (107 kg). However, 220 lb (100 kg) is usually the most common weight limit for cruiserweights. [B]Heavyweight: [/B]all athletes weighing more than 220 lb (100 kg) [B]Super heavyweight:[/B] Not an official weight class and not so much coined unless an athlete is extremely large, but any athlete weighing 300 lb (140 kg) or more is considered a super heavyweight. That's the "Norm" that even the WWE use's (to make people like Umaga seem so BIG, when really, compared to certain ones, are not). WWE uses Umaga as a "Super Heavyweight". TEW does not (he needs another 40 or 50 pounds to fit it). Notice the difference? It's not so easy to gauge bigger wrestler's this way (for the games sake). SO Hogan, for example, Slamming Andre wouldn't have been such a big deal... as they would be rated the same size (if TEW used normal Wrestling weights for a breakdown). With the additional weights being scaled for "Bigger" (not necessarily more muscular) worker's in the game, you can get a "Feel" realistically in a way, when a Heavyweight Slams a Giant, what kind of shock value it might have. When a match up really does "Look" like the underdog had no chance, because of size difference. You can use the above for your Title belts (and who can compete for them), and you won't be that far away... But I would strongly encourage anyone making a MOD for the public, to just use the class's Adam has outlined (with the guidelines in tow), and just say "Cruiserweight" is for "Middleweight's" or "Lightweights" and under (depending on the promotion, and who they have used). Remember, the guidelines are to be able to use people that have the "Cruiserweight" type movesets as well... So it could go to at least that. Your world Heavyweight titles could utilize "Middleweights" on up... As another example. This still stays within' the norm, and I can't stress enough how even though two people can go for the same title, your able to show how great a difference in size the two people are if needed. Just my thoughts on this, without actually debating anyone... as I see the debate seems to be more about exact weight (which is not what the numbers actually represent... it's just a guide), and "Name" of the class... Perhaps one day TEW will come with the ability to edit your class's with the names you want... I just feel that with the titles, you can do that yourself, and still keep the class/division seperation that is outlined for TEW (just use Middleweight as your "Middle" ground, which is totally realistic).

[Jennie Bomb]

[quote=Mr T Jobs To Me;427840]Not-So Heavyweight. That's mine.[/quote] I prefer He Ain't Heavy, He's My Brotherweight, personally. :p

[BurningHamster]

[QUOTE=Jennie Bomb;427901]I prefer He Ain't Heavy, He's My Brotherweight, personally. :p[/QUOTE] Can't believe I actually laughed at that one. Also I have to say I prefer Dolfanar's breakdown of the weights myself. Mr. Ryland's has just too many slight variations of "absolutely bloody huge" and no real distinction between "scrawny indy schlub" and "jacked up WWE cruiserweight".

[Mr T Jobs To Me]

[QUOTE=Jennie Bomb;427901]I prefer He Ain't Heavy, He's My Brotherweight, personally. :p[/QUOTE] And what of its feminine counterpart, You Don't Look Fat in Those Pantsweight!?