Suggestion for any future TEW.....

[thommohawk]

I have said it lots of times before and I will say it again, why hasn't TEW got any match play by play ? it would help so much with the immersion factor of the game.....I believe Adam said before that the reason there's no match commentary in TEW anymore is because people would get bored of reading it AND because in wrestling the outcome is prearranged, unlike in MMA fights. Well for me that is abit of a shoddy reason to be brutally honest, because match commentary has become so good in WMMA, and from a gamers perspective and from the game itself's point of view, neither is bothered wether it is real or fake, prearranged or not, it's about immersion when the show starts, especially in TEW....see if I am going to spend months promoting a main event dream match for the world title and really pour my heart and soul into the buildup - I want to have the payoff at the end of it where I can experience the match, much like with WMMA. Which brings me back to my original point, what is the real reason a proper match commentary engine is not in TEW when there is one in WMMA ? because the whole prearranged thing isn't a valid reason. Is it not possible with TEW's current engine ? Do you simply NOT want to do it ? Will it hurt your WMMA franchise if this is included in TEW ? I just know that if such a thing is in WMMA and widely received, it should definitely be in TEW since much more time is spent promoting and booking in TEW, there should be a payoff and more immersion - WMMA like match commentary in a wrestling style would help change the face of the whole game IMO.

[rajde]

I agree with Adam because alot of people don't read the commentaries. I never did and I wouldn't even if it was added. There is no element of surprise to them you know what will happen because you booked them.

[Adam Ryland]

Common sense should answer most of your post. It's about a million times easier to write a commentary engine for WMMA than TEW because there are limits on what can happen; it's always two fighters and a referee, it's always within the confines of a limited space, there's never interference, there's a limited amount of situations (with the vast majority of matches taking place in one of two; standing or ground game), there's a limited amount of styles and moves, etc, etc. Writing a commentary engine for TEW - where there are an [B]enormous[/B] amount of combinations of matches, stipulations, moves, and situations - would probably take as long as writing the entire rest of the game (if not longer), and even then, whether it could both cater for every situation that could arise and still retain depth and quality is an entirely different matter. That sort of truly massive effort for a feature that most players would either totally ignore or at least pay little attention to after the first few goes is simply not worth the rewards it would give.

[Hurrikane]

I agree with Adam that the importance of the feature wouldn't justify all the hard work, though a compromise could maybe be reached. Whenever I read online reports of TV shows and PPV's, I usually skip to the bottom and look at the reporters summary. Maybe alternative internet reporter summaries of matches would be a good idea. I know there are road agent notes but an external analysis could be more colourful. I think something in the vein of Keller or Caldwell's reports on the torch website would add more to the feedback of matches and angles.

[W3LSHY]

I put it down to moves. How's the engine meant to know everyones moves? And don't even say add everyone's moves to the moveset, because that would literally be taking the...mickey.

[Jennie Bomb]

I completely agree that play by play would add nothing to the game and is entirely irrelevent, as opposed to WMMA when you need to understand how and why someone won in order to make sure you get the best match-ups out of your fighters. In TEW, you pretty much control what type of match is is, so you don't need to know. It would, however, be helpful to have some kind of match summary from which you can work out why a match got the grade it did. Like, if you take Hogan/Rock as an example, their match at WrestleMania may have recieved a really high rating that might make you think it's a great match, whereas the reality is that the match was no more than average or acceptable, but it was carried to a higher grade by the crowd heat, the occasion and the fact that the match was booked so that both guys weaknesses were covered well and that the crowd bought the finish as an acceptable end to a match between two legendary figures.

[soundsofsilver]

If you want match by match commentary, play TNM7 in conjucture with TEW.

[Adam Ryland]

[QUOTE=soundsofsilver;430279]If you want match by match commentary, play TNM7 in conjucture with TEW.[/QUOTE] Or WreSpi2 ;)

[Bigpapa42]

For me personally, the benefit of having that against the complication of adding it, I don't think it would be worth it me. A bit more detail on the match summary, or a separate detailed summary, might be nice. But actual play-by-play wouldn't add that much to the game for me personally.

[falleneagleftw]

[QUOTE=Adam Ryland;430286]Or WreSpi2 ;)[/QUOTE] I would have said to join an E-fed...even then few people read the commentaries. I like TEW for the simplicity. If I wanted PBP while playing TEW I'd start my own journal.

[thommohawk]

Alright Adam you do make a good point about the coding issues, fair enough. I just think there should be more of a payoff even if it's only superficial when you're shows are going on. Even if it was to have the live show feeback be more "human" as opposed to the wooden feel that it currently has. All I'm trying to say is that has been the biggest flaw of TEW (that's not there lol) is that despite all the fixes and great additions, like internet, that help with immersion...I can never shake the feeling of automation when I play this game and it's a real shame....I'm hoping that the new game's more "human" personalities feature would negate this considerably. But better representation of the shows would help alot. How you go about this on the other hand I can only suggest but ultimately is your decision alone. I am not trying to crap all over your game, I like the game and the concept is awesome, I'm just offering my opinions and constructive criticisms/suggestions, be it brutally honest.

[Michael Wayne]

like Adam said. And pretty much those of us who played 04 remember how redundant the match commentaries were. From a bookers perspective you don't need to see the breakdown of the match with commentary. You just need the agent notes.

[BrokenCycle]

I'm disappointed that product templates never made it into the game, and that I only thought of the feature a few days ago. Dealing with the product system was so intimidating to me, that I never bothered too much to delve into the nuances of it. I think that pre-loaded products into the database would have been extremely beneficial to new and veteran TEW players.

[Christ]

i like the idea of this as a special perk of the moves list... (for example, every move could have a short description as to how it is referred...) this could help people have the feel of JR shouting "STONE COLD STUNNER" or The King shouting "PUPPIES" but i doubt it could be any more advanced than that without seriously ruining the game (not that i know anything about the technical side of the game)

[Vladamire Dracos]

I generally have to agree with thommohawk, if you ask any of the people who claim that EWR is better than TEW, one of the claims they'll make is that EWR has a greater feeling of immersion thanks to factors like the commentary and greater internet features. Many people consider the Worker talk screen from TEW '04 greater than the ones from the later versions even though they pretty much give the same information. The effort to streamline the game and remove "fluff" has done a lot to remove the games ability to immerse the player into the game world and, in my opinion, weakened the games ability to attract new fans. One of the greatest problems I've had with the TEW series is how anticlimactic the actual shows are. Creating/setting up a promotion, hiring and dealing with workers, even booking the show is great and has seen numerous improvements over the series, but the moment it actually gets to the show itself it all falls flat. It would be just as good to get an E-mail from your road agent(s) about the show with the letter grades and chemistry notes and such as the match by match screen that we currently have now. At least that would bring something to it (since, unless you're doing the road agent work yourself or had the skill to determine it yourself, you'd find this stuff out from them after the show anyway). Personally, I'd prefer to see a system like what was in EWR updated to fit the TEW series, a selection of commentators (who could be culled from forum posters here or fictional commentators) with their own styles, likes, and personalities that give a short commentary on each of the matches, rather than the system from '04 or even WMMA. I'm not saying this to try to start a fight or ride Adam's back, it's just something that I've considered a weakness in a series that I've followed religiously since EWR. Sometimes fluff is good! Sometimes less is exactly that, less.

[Michael Wayne]

[QUOTE=Christ;430424]i like the idea of this as a special perk of the moves list... (for example, every move could have a short description as to how it is referred...) this could help people have the feel of JR shouting "STONE COLD STUNNER" or The King shouting "PUPPIES" but i doubt it could be any more advanced than that without seriously ruining the game (not that i know anything about the technical side of the game)[/QUOTE] King hasn't shouted "PUPPIES" for years.

[fatallylost]

To be honest, while I understand the point, it dopesn't make sense. You're the booker for the fed, you don't really have to get "into" the match. You would just need to figure out if they worked well. Now, more crowd detail would be great, other than it brought their mood down etc. Maybe a slightly more detailed reason would rule. But, I rarely read the commentaries in the past games. Sue, once I switched commentaries from one to another I'd read them for the first few shows, but, it only goes for so many matches, then just repeats.

[Gigas]

[QUOTE=BrokenCycle;430421]I'm disappointed that product templates never made it into the game, and that I only thought of the feature a few days ago. Dealing with the product system was so intimidating to me, that I never bothered too much to delve into the nuances of it. I think that pre-loaded products into the database would have been extremely beneficial to new and veteran TEW players.[/QUOTE] Yeah, I thought that would be in. I also dont think it'd be very hard for him to add in. It seems like something TEW08 v 1.1 could have. As for the OP, I would use PBP about 5 times and never use it again. It would get as redundant as the commentary in any EA sports game.

[thommohawk]

[QUOTE=Vladamire Dracos;430446]I generally have to agree with thommohawk, if you ask any of the people who claim that EWR is better than TEW, one of the claims they'll make is that EWR has a greater feeling of immersion thanks to factors like the commentary and greater internet features. Many people consider the Worker talk screen from TEW '04 greater than the ones from the later versions even though they pretty much give the same information. The effort to streamline the game and remove "fluff" has done a lot to remove the games ability to immerse the player into the game world and, in my opinion, weakened the games ability to attract new fans. One of the greatest problems I've had with the TEW series is how anticlimactic the actual shows are. Creating/setting up a promotion, hiring and dealing with workers, even booking the show is great and has seen numerous improvements over the series, but the moment it actually gets to the show itself it all falls flat. It would be just as good to get an E-mail from your road agent(s) about the show with the letter grades and chemistry notes and such as the match by match screen that we currently have now. At least that would bring something to it (since, unless you're doing the road agent work yourself or had the skill to determine it yourself, you'd find this stuff out from them after the show anyway). Personally, I'd prefer to see a system like what was in EWR updated to fit the TEW series, a selection of commentators (who could be culled from forum posters here or fictional commentators) with their own styles, likes, and personalities that give a short commentary on each of the matches, rather than the system from '04 or even WMMA. I'm not saying this to try to start a fight or ride Adam's back, it's just something that I've considered a weakness in a series that I've followed religiously since EWR. Sometimes fluff is good! Sometimes less is exactly that, less.[/QUOTE] Sorry I had to quote the whole post on this one, since this is what I was trying to say, and that I agree completely with most everything in this post. I'm glad somebody agrees with me and had the nuts to come out and say it like it is. I'm not deliberately trying to start a fight either but I have to point out that the experienced guy on the forum says something and you guys don't say anything, the infrequent poster on the forum says the same thing about the game and you guys are alot quicker to supress. I ask what is the difference ? I ask this because I too have played and mostly liked TEW since the EWR days also. And I've been a member here for 2 years, I don't post hardly but still I think my opinion should be as valid as some other more established members. My post wasn't greatly dissimilar to his and yes I know I was the one who started it, but still. And yes I know I'm having a typical Raven moment here lol but I'm sure there's some kind of protocol or inner circle going on around here that I'm not privvy to lol.

[Infernalmiko]

[QUOTE=Vladamire Dracos;430446]I generally have to agree with thommohawk, if you ask any of the people who claim that EWR is better than TEW, one of the claims they'll make is that EWR has a greater feeling of immersion thanks to factors like the commentary and greater internet features. [/QUOTE] Honestly, on the rare occasions this comes up the reason I get why EWR is better than TEW is because EWR is free. IMHO, I don't want commentary. If I book two wrestlers, I can picture how the match will go. Or simply write it up. And that will be ten times better than the same canned responses over and over from an automated system.

[BrokenCycle]

[QUOTE=Vladamire Dracos;430446]I generally have to agree with thommohawk, if you ask any of the people who claim that EWR is better than TEW, one of the claims they'll make is that EWR has a greater feeling of immersion thanks to factors like the commentary and greater internet features. [/QUOTE] Never heard this, usually people say they like the price point (none), the real workers, and the simplicity. Anyone that says the commentary was good in the EWR series is lying through their teeth, and you know it. Besides reading it a few times, few people ever read it again because it was so generic. I'll agree, the game should do a better job of bringing you into the moment while the show goes on, but putting commentary in isn't a great solution.

[crayon]

Well, I have to say that I wouldn't make a whole lot of use of a play-by-play feature.. and I do doubt many others would too.. But I can't deny that it does make a nice bulletpoint for selling and reviewing (it's great having such a loyal fanbase but bringing more people to the franchise can't be a bad thing). I also can't deny that Vladamire is bang on the money about immersion and fluff (which really can't be called fluff if it adds something as important as immersion, right?) and a greater sense of reward for spending however long booking a show. Not saying that the game doesn't need to be streamlined, but GUI and general navigation redesign would make a far bigger impact (which it does appear to be improved upon from last year, I will quickly add).

[D16NJD16]

Id love a play by play feature, I loved scott keith back in the day

[djthefunkchris]

[QUOTE=BrokenCycle;430421]I'm disappointed that product templates never made it into the game, and that I only thought of the feature a few days ago. Dealing with the product system was so intimidating to me, that I never bothered too much to delve into the nuances of it. I think that pre-loaded products into the database would have been extremely beneficial to new and veteran TEW players.[/QUOTE] If you like the templates in '05, download the free version (or if you have the normal one use it). Create new promotions of all those types in a new mod, and then convert it to '07. Then convert to '08, and you will have all your favorite templates... All you have to do is inport whichever one you want into your game or editor for the game your going to play.

[BrokenCycle]

[QUOTE=djthefunkchris;430509]If you like the templates in '05, download the free version (or if you have the normal one use it). Create new promotions of all those types in a new mod, and then convert it to '07. Then convert to '08, and you will have all your favorite templates... All you have to do is inport whichever one you want into your game or editor for the game your going to play.[/QUOTE] That works, but that's not quite my point. Adam has done a great job every single installment of making his games user-friendly and streamlining the entire process. Messing around with the product and every little possibility was extremely intimidating. If I'm creating a new promotion and want it to be a Hardcore product exactly like DAVE's, I'd have to go to DAVE's product and write down their exact product to copy it. Not exactly quick and easy. Meanwhile, if a user just doesn't want to deal with testing out the product system, pre-loaded products in the editor that could be loaded into the game will save the player the hassle and burden of experimentation. I'd love to see it in future games.