Michelle McCool's Backstage Status; Divas Leader

[djthefunkchris]

[QUOTE=Remianen;466265]edit: Wallbanger, chris isn't talking about shoots or even straight up wrestling. He's referring to booking. Yes, Michelle McCool could "beat" any three divas on the Smackdown roster, but would it be as a result of her ability....or who she shares a bed with?[/QUOTE] Nice:cool: Of course I mean in the WWE sense. She is just more over then any other diva at this time on the Smackdown Brand. That's all there is to it. She can "Believably" beat any three at the same time, because of this. Actual skill has no bearing. Remi picked it up, lol.

[Self]

Can you blame us for not getting it? Kayfabe is like a dirty word on t'internet. Yes. I will agree with you that in the WWE-verse, Michelle McCool is the most powerful female fighter on Smackdown. That's how she's been pushed, and while Nattie's character's pedigree and technical excellence are acknowledged, Michelle's character has that 'heart' factor, that has propelled such greats as Shawn Michaels and John Cena to championship gold.

[Wallbanger]

[quote=djthefunkchris;466450]Nice:cool: Of course I mean in the WWE sense. She is just more over then any other diva at this time on the Smackdown Brand. That's all there is to it. She can "Believably" beat any three at the same time, because of this. Actual skill has no bearing. Remi picked it up, lol.[/quote] That's not what you said before, but I'll just take this as a confession that you recognize how silly you were and are just trying to save face. ;)

[Guest Ransik]

Titles should not be designed to be marketable on the replica scale... fans will buy them regardless... unless they're hideous like the Divas and new ECW Titles. I bet if you gave a poll out to female wrestling fans between 12-18 on which Women's belt they'd buy as a replica, RAW would win by a landslide. Much the same as the ECW Title... if someone did a poll asking would you buy the old or the new... I highly doubt the new version would dominate.

[James Casey]

I'd actually much rather they used the old Women's title that Alundra Blayze used to own - but I guess after she chucked it in the bin on Nitro that time, they wanted to avoid any association with it. And Taker and McCool have beenn together for several months, I believe. I know there were rumours floating around about her as far back as New year, but I thought it was Johnny Ace she'd hooked up with. It's a strange world.

[scorpion]

[QUOTE=Ransik;466502]Titles should not be designed to be marketable on the replica scale... fans will buy them regardless... unless they're hideous like the Divas and new ECW Titles. I bet if you gave a poll out to female wrestling fans between 12-18 on which Women's belt they'd buy as a replica, RAW would win by a landslide. Much the same as the ECW Title... if someone did a poll asking would you buy the old or the new... I highly doubt the new version would dominate.[/QUOTE] It doesn't matter what you or I think, thats how WWE does it. Thats why John Cena will stay a face, Triple H will keep carrying around the spinner belt, and the Divas title looks like it came off a Bratz doll, because WWE believes those things will make them money.

[Self]

I dunno, Ransik. I think it's kind of like t-shirts. I mean, I'm a Hardyz mark, but the only t-shirt I've ever bought of them was their recent weird-colourful-symbol-with-the-cartoon-versions-of-them-with-glowing-eyes one, because I thought it looked bad ass. I've had chances to buy Hardyz t-shirts before, and if I were to buy a shirt of anyone it would have been them, but none of the designs grabbed me, so I kept my money. I'm sure this troubled WWE greatly. I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm certain some people will buy the belt regardless. I'm not even saying the new belt designs are all that good. I'm just saying, to some people, modern aesthetics matter, and I can't fault WWE for trying something new, and aiming in that modern direction. Although a new ECW belt strikes me as fairly pointless.

[Remianen]

[QUOTE=djthefunkchris;466450]Nice:cool: Of course I mean in the WWE sense. She is just more over then any other diva at this time on the Smackdown Brand. That's all there is to it. She can "Believably" beat any three at the same time, because of this. Actual skill has no bearing. Remi picked it up, lol.[/QUOTE] Correction: Michelle McCool has the most momentum of any of the divas on Smackdown. Victoria's STILL more over (due to history and proven performance carrying a division).

[djthefunkchris]

[QUOTE=Remianen;466971]Correction: Michelle McCool has the most momentum of any of the divas on Smackdown. Victoria's STILL more over (due to history and proven performance carrying a division).[/QUOTE] Your absolutely, correct. Now that I think of it, why the hell they don't do something with Victoria is beyond me. The only reason I can think of is possibly she doesn't WANT it... Maybe all the years have done their toll on her, and although she's not ready for retirement, she doesn't want to be in every show that comes up. I don't know, but it's the only reason I wouldn't use her to much, for her own benefit, because she could surely bring out the best in quite a few of the other's. I stand corrected, I simply "forgot" she was even there.... For lack of use.

[Guest The Aussie]

[QUOTE=djthefunkchris;467247]Your absolutely, correct. Now that I think of it, why the hell they don't do something with Victoria is beyond me. The only reason I can think of is possibly she doesn't WANT it... Maybe all the years have done their toll on her, and although she's not ready for retirement, she doesn't want to be in every show that comes up. I don't know, but it's the only reason I wouldn't use her to much, for her own benefit, because she could surely bring out the best in quite a few of the other's. I stand corrected, I simply "forgot" she was even there.... For lack of use.[/QUOTE] I think you hit the nail on the head. Victoria is probably winding down her career by acting as somewhat of a trainer for Smackdowns Divas. She's had her time at the top and made way for others.

[Remianen]

[QUOTE=The Aussie;467454]I think you hit the nail on the head. Victoria is probably winding down her career by acting as somewhat of a trainer for Smackdowns Divas. She's had her time at the top and made way for others.[/QUOTE] Made way for others, eh? That's a totally American sentiment. As you might know, in other places, it's not uncommon for a so-called trainer to be active and actively kicking the younger workers' asses until they prove themselves worthy of having their time in the sun. You need strong, proven workers to develop the next generation of....strong, proven workers. Consider the people Trish Stratus had to compete against during her rise. Without them, she'd probably be a paper champion like Michelle McCool is (at the moment). Gail Kim had Jacqueline (please tell me that match in the cage wasn't eye-popping) most recently, and Kong after that. I believe WWE is doing itself (and its talent and fanbase) a grave disservice by not utilizing Victoria as much as possible. Last I heard, she had had debris cleaned out from her knee but that was early this year. While I understand rehab takes a bit longer at 37/38 than it did at 22/23, it doesn't take 6 months to rehab after a knee scope. Victoria's the perfect heel to "make" Michelle McCool (or Cherry or whoever the hell else they want to try to 'Stratus-ize'). For years, I've been hoping and wishing they'd release her so she could turn up some place like SHIMMER where she can fully show off her skillset. But I think Lisa Varon's a lifer much like Sean Morley.

[djthefunkchris]

[QUOTE=Remianen;467612]Made way for others, eh? That's a totally American sentiment. As you might know, in other places, it's not uncommon for a so-called trainer to be active and actively kicking the younger workers' asses until they prove themselves worthy of having their time in the sun. You need strong, proven workers to develop the next generation of....strong, proven workers. Consider the people Trish Stratus had to compete against during her rise. Without them, she'd probably be a paper champion like Michelle McCool is (at the moment). Gail Kim had Jacqueline (please tell me that match in the cage wasn't eye-popping) most recently, and Kong after that. I believe WWE is doing itself (and its talent and fanbase) a grave disservice by not utilizing Victoria as much as possible. Last I heard, she had had debris cleaned out from her knee but that was early this year. While I understand rehab takes a bit longer at 37/38 than it did at 22/23, it doesn't take 6 months to rehab after a knee scope. Victoria's the perfect heel to "make" Michelle McCool (or Cherry or whoever the hell else they want to try to 'Stratus-ize'). [B]For years, I've been hoping and wishing they'd release her so she could turn up some place like SHIMMER where she can fully show off her skillset. But I think Lisa Varon's a lifer much like Sean Morley[/B].[/QUOTE] I wouldn't mind seeing her outside the WWE, but I think your right. I'm hoping (for logic's sake) that I'm somewhat right about what I would hope would be it, and that she just doesn't want it right now, or anymore, or whatever... But more then anything I'm hoping this is HER decision, and not those in charge. I know WWE can raise the bar anytime they want, but as everyone know's, McMahan likes to only do that when necessary. I think differently, in that I think that is probably very smart, as to not "Burn" out the audience, so that when they do decide to raise the bar, it's special. Or at least feels special.

[Greg2511]

[QUOTE=Ransik;466217]It's well known McCool's only actual training is pro-wrestling... which Nattie has martial arts training as well as being trained in the Dungeon on top of being over in Japan. Her body or her boyfriend got her the Divas belt... not her talent.[/QUOTE] actually McCool is a trained kick boxer...who quite frankly could kick my ass in a fight....I don't buy her beating Nattie but from a merchandising standpoint, and a credibility standpoint yeah...it makes sense to have her be the first champion...she is way more over than nattie...for now. firstly she is a face, there are a lot of heels holding titles on smackdown so it makes sense to give it to a face. secondly, she is hot...and we all know that the general male audience would rather see someone who is totally hot defending the title than someone who, while decent looking and a much better in ring competitor, has a man face. thirdly, she's doing the undertaker....anyone willing to do someone that old to get ahead deserves a push in my mind. :)

[AfRoMaN36]

[QUOTE=Greg2511;467737] secondly, she is hot...and we all know that the general male audience would rather see someone who is totally hot defending the title than someone who, while decent looking and a much better in ring competitor, has a man face. [/QUOTE] Chyna?

[Guest The Aussie]

[QUOTE=AfRoMaN36;467768]Chyna?[/QUOTE] I seem to remember that Chyna was hella over. Hell, Amazing Kong gets pretty good heat over in TNA.

[AfRoMaN36]

She wasn't over with me... I've never even seen her sex tape with X-Pac. Mostly becauseI don't even want to see those two with their clothes ON.

[Guest The Aussie]

[QUOTE=AfRoMaN36;467792]She wasn't over with me... I've never even seen her sex tape with X-Pac. Mostly becauseI don't even want to see those two with their clothes ON.[/QUOTE] OH! That's what you meant.

[Wallbanger]

[quote=Greg2511;467737]actually McCool is a trained kick boxer...who quite frankly could kick my ass in a fight....I don't buy her beating Nattie but from a merchandising standpoint, and a credibility standpoint yeah...it makes sense to have her be the first champion...she is way more over than nattie...for now.[/quote] Hmm, that's the first time I've heard that -- I knew about her softball background, but not kickboxing. (Not that I pay that close of attention, so I have no reason not to believe it...)

[djthefunkchris]

[QUOTE=Wallbanger;467842]Hmm, that's the first time I've heard that -- I knew about her softball background, but not kickboxing. (Not that I pay that close of attention, so I have no reason not to believe it...)[/QUOTE] This go round with her, they only emphasized her love of sports when they brought her on/up, or whatever you want to call it. I can still remember the "hype" video's of her.

[djthefunkchris]

McCool Grew up in Florida "Has a close relationship with her family, including one brother Married, and also using name Michelle McCool-Alexander Career Highlights: Competed in National Physique Committee fitness contests Teaches gymnastics and kickboxing Personal fitness trainer Attained her Masters degree in Educational Leadership from Florida State University Received various academic and athletic awards while in college, one being the National Academic Scholar-Athlete award Personality/Interests: Outstanding athlete, and participates in volleyball, basketball, softball and gymnastics Easy to get along with. People tell her she's sweet, kind and sincere Accomplished dancer in tap, jazz and ballet" I recieved a pop-up from the sight I copied that info from, here is the link. [url]http://www.owow.com/frameindex.htm?goto=http%3A//www.owow.com/ringsidewith/RawDivaSearch2004/Michelle/index.htm[/url]

[Destiny]

[QUOTE=djthefunkchris;468054]McCool Grew up in Florida "Has a close relationship with her family, including one brother Married, and also using name Michelle McCool-Alexander Career Highlights: Competed in National Physique Committee fitness contests Teaches gymnastics and kickboxing Personal fitness trainer Attained her Masters degree in Educational Leadership from Florida State University Received various academic and athletic awards while in college, one being the National Academic Scholar-Athlete award Personality/Interests: Outstanding athlete, and participates in volleyball, basketball, softball and gymnastics Easy to get along with. People tell her she's sweet, kind and sincere Accomplished dancer in tap, jazz and ballet" I recieved a pop-up from the sight I copied that info from, here is the link. [url]http://www.owow.com/frameindex.htm?goto=http%3A//www.owow.com/ringsidewith/RawDivaSearch2004/Michelle/index.htm[/url][/QUOTE] When you put it like that it is understandable why she's been given the push she has. She's not exactly terrivle in the ring either.

[lazorbeak]

Remi, I respect that you take the time and effort to explore TEW, and that you know how to use a women's roster to its maximum advantage, but let's get real. [QUOTE=Remianen;466265]In the first sentence, you're as wrong as one person could ever be. But in the second sentence, you hit the nail on the head. And there lies one of several differences between the "divas" and the Knockouts (one of the two groups can actually wrestle, omg).[/QUOTE] This is such a ridiculously incorrect statement. I mean, I get that you're a big SHIMMER fan, but your statements indicate that you haven't followed women's wrestling in the WWE since Torrie Wilson and Stacy Keibler's four star classics of about five years ago. WWE has the best women's roster they have ever had. Mickie James, Victoria, Katie Lea (formerly Nikita), Beth Phoenix, Nattie Neidhart, and Jillian Hall are all accomplished indy wrestlers with a lot of talent, and even the Michelle McCools, Candice Michelles and Marias out there have improved immensely to the point that they don't stick out as untrained the way Torrie Wilson (not with the company) or Ashley Massaro (ditto) always did. [QUOTE=Remianen;466265]Besides, it's not like it matters. No one outside of WWE's rabid fanbase actually sees Michelle as a competent champion. It's ye olde double standard rearing its ugly head again. Whereas the men's champions have to draw money (could you see them putting the Raw or SD world titles on Shelton Benjamin or MVP right now?) and be able to work a match convincingly, the women just have to look pretty. Odd that the three Knockout champions thus far, have all been able to work in the ring, much like most of their men (Kevin Nash excepted). That's the difference between the two products and the reason you can't really compare them. Their focuses are different. When TNA assembled their Knockout division, they went straight to SHIMMER. When WWE's stocking their divas, they hit the fitness model circuit. See the difference?[/quote] It's just common effing sense booking- Michelle has been the biggest face diva on a Smackdown brand full of heels. She's over, marketable, and is decent in the ring- what's the problem with her being champion? And as far as "competency," couldn't you make that argument 99% of the time? I mean, Awesome Kong lost to a 5'3 blonde, but I guess we all know Shantelle's not a "competent champion." I'm by no means a WWE apologist, but to bash the WWE women's division as inferior to the Knockouts is just pure nonsense. Not to poke more holes in a horrible argument, but as much as TNA went to SHIMMER for a division, I certainly see a lot of WWE alums. Let's take a look: Gail Kim: former WWE women's champ. Christy Hemme: diva search winner Jackie Moore: former WWE women's and cruiserweight champ. Rhaka Khan: diva search contestant. Salinas: former OVW and ECW talent. ODB: signed by WWE, was the first OVW women's champ. Angelina Love: worked in OVW. Taylor Wilde: worked in OVW. Now I know not all of those women are at the forefront of the division, but Karen Angle is on TV more than most of them anyway, so its a mute point. WWE's division isn't perfect (and still runs one angle at a time), but it's as good as it has ever been, and outright bashing it out of hand just makes you sound ignorant.

[djthefunkchris]

[QUOTE]could you see them putting the Raw or SD world titles on Shelton Benjamin or MVP right now?[/QUOTE] Although I admire Shelton's obvious commitment, and great abilities, I would never put the world title on him outside of a transitional period. The reason being is because he is unable to hold any real interest in himself. I've watched them try all kinds of things to try and get him some kind of... anything really, heat mainly. No one really cares about him unless he is with Haas as a tag team. I'd have him as tag champion without hesitation (with Haas) though, because for some reason that works well. Don't get me wrong though, because of his obvious potential, I would always try things (as WWE does) to see if I can find something to finally break him out of that mold. I don't think there has been a time as a single wrestler, he wasn't more over then right now though, so maybe this will eventually do it for him (the Gold Standard). Far as MVP, HELL YEAH! Put that title on him! The only reason they haven't, in my opinion, is because he seems to be the key to bounce up the face's... Primarily Hardy's.. Into the Main Event right now. It's too early to put the world title on him, because of all the good he can do right now where he is (staying there to shoot other's up). However, I wouldn't hesitate for an instant, even right now. He is totally believable and marketable, and can draw. His "Show" is the best one right now, or at least draws the most interest. They can do anything they want with him, because he is really a total package (has the entertainment skills to keep people interested, with some grappling skills to let him back it up with). I don't know why anyone would think different at this point with him. He helped Kennedy, he Helped Matt, looks like he is going to help out Jeff as well... Pluss, he looked completely normal standing in the ring with Triple H, when it looked like they might get into it (and then both aggreeing on Edge). There isn't a soul that's been watching that wouldn't think MVP had a real chance of beating either one (HHH or Edge). MVP For the GOLD, NOT A PROBLEM. The only reason he doesn't have one of the other's, is because he's already to "Big" for them, and they do absolutely NOTHING at all for him, weather he has them or not. The only title for him to be involved with at this point (outside of "Making" another star), is one of the world title's.

[blackphoenix]

[QUOTE=lazorbeak;468196] I'm by no means a WWE apologist, but to bash the WWE women's division as inferior to the Knockouts is just pure nonsense. Not to poke more holes in a horrible argument, but as much as TNA went to SHIMMER for a division, I certainly see a lot of WWE alums. Let's take a look: Gail Kim: former WWE women's champ. Christy Hemme: diva search winner Jackie Moore: former WWE women's and cruiserweight champ. Rhaka Khan: diva search contestant. Salinas: former OVW and ECW talent. ODB: signed by WWE, was the first OVW women's champ. Angelina Love: worked in OVW. Taylor Wilde: worked in OVW. [/QUOTE] The problem being however that the WWE didn't want any of these chicks as the majority of them didn't suit the WWE look. ODB was so over in OVW it was ridiculous, but the E had no intention of bringing her up at all. She was performing in OVW without a WWE contract when TNA snapped her up. Hell they even asked Phoenix to slim down significantly until they would bring her up. WWE got rid of Gail and Jackie. I feel that the E's major problem with the women's division is identifying the right ones, I feel that almost always make the wrong choices. Tho I would kill for Victoria to make her way to TNA (which she will never will, she's a company lady all the way.)

[djthefunkchris]

[QUOTE=blackphoenix;469002]The problem being however that the WWE didn't want any of these chicks as the majority of them didn't suit the WWE look. ODB was so over in OVW it was ridiculous, but the E had no intention of bringing her up at all. She was performing in OVW without a WWE contract when TNA snapped her up. Hell they even asked Phoenix to slim down significantly until they would bring her up. WWE got rid of Gail and Jackie. I feel that the E's major problem with the women's division is identifying the right ones, I feel that almost always make the wrong choices. Tho I would kill for Victoria to make her way to TNA (which she will never will, she's a company lady all the way.)[/QUOTE] Really, your points do the opposite of what you probably meant them to do.