Ddp...

[tristram]

[QUOTE=aikmitt822;509366]DDP was probably my favorite wrestler from this peroid of time, which says a lot. Granted I was a 14 year old kid who marked out easily, the excitement he brought every moment he was on stage was great. He's one of a hand full of guys I identify that made me a wrestling fan for life, even if I don't watch anymore. One of my favorite matches he was involved in was at Uncensored 1998 when he defended the US Title against Chris Benoit and Raven. And it was no where near the top of the card, I think it was Hogan vs. Savage in a cage match and Sting vs. Scott Hall for the WCW Championship, but I couldn't enjoy the rest of that pay per view because of how great it was. Also, DDP dressing up as La Parka against Macho Man on Nitro, giving him the Diamond Cutter while still in the mask. I remember flipping out when he took it off and his music hit. I was definately a WCW guy over WWF in the late 90s, and besides Sting there was nobody else that I looked at that I really felt "was" WCW more than DDP.[/QUOTE] They used the 'La Parka' thing also for Dean Malenko in his feud with Chris Jericho, where they had a Cruiserweight battle royal which was won by none other than Ciclope. Ciclope demasks as Jericho comes to the ring... it's Malenko. Jericho's face is priceless. That three way match you talk of is IMO one of the best matches I have ever seen. Also, Page v Raven in a Ravens Rules match at Spring Stampede 1998 is massive. Another good match of Page's, I can't remember what PPV it was, but it's a tag match, he's the tag champion along with Chris Kanyon from memory, and they're against Raven and Saturn, and Benoit and Malenko... Page just connected brillaintly with both Raven and Benoit and he was probably the only PPV main eventer at the time in WCW who seemed to recognise how valuable the likes of Raven and Benoit could be and sold his soul over and over like no other to get them over. I would be interested to hear how Raven rates him compared to the other WCW guys.

[Remianen]

[QUOTE=Ransik;508768]If you've ever read Flair's book.... he bashes DDP to no end. And why? I couldn't tell you to be honest with you, I think it's because DDP is Eric's buddy and Flair detests Bischoff like a Catholic walking into a satanic cult. But contrary to Ric's opinion (read his stuff on Bret, too & how much he kisses HBK and HHH's ass and it's no wonder he feels that way) I always thought Page was one of the more superior workers in WCW, possibly the top 5 of all time. I mean come on folks..... DDP had a classic with Goldberg. Freakin.... Goldberg.[/QUOTE] Flair bashes DDP because he's the perfect example of where WCW went wrong. When cronyism is the basis of your business, instead of effort and excellence, you're bound to fail (ask Lehman Brothers and AIG). DDP was the perfect example of someone getting and keeping his spot not because of what he did as much as who he knew. Also, I need you to clarify what you mean by 'top 5 of all time'. Mainly because I can think of three dozen workers in wrestling history that were better and more influential than DDP. Are you talking top 5 in WCW history (which could be a stretch in and of itself)? [QUOTE=SuperOwens;508828]Why do wrestling fans hate on DDP? Cos a lot of wrestling fans are idiots.[/QUOTE] I agree. Just look at who/what they made the top promotion in the world. That speaks volumes IMO. [QUOTE=BlueStar;508984]I liked DDP...Aright, he didn't have the talent and training of the younger guys, but he tried very hard to make every match look different and I think he always pushed himself to the limit. He's good to great on the stick and he tried varying things with his finisher to make it look unique every match. [B]If all of the guys had the attitude towards a match of DDP, wrestling would have been more interesting.[/B][/QUOTE] this, especially the bolded part. I have much respect for anyone who tries to enter a new arena and really puts their heart into it. Nowadays, people are so half-ass that it shows in both their performances (on camera) and their lifestyles (off camera). From everything I've read (besides "To Be The Man..."), DDP was a student of the game. He paid attention to little things like psychology which allowed him to be a much better worker, despite his limited physical toolset. I can dig that.

[NickC13573]

DDP is second to none for me. I will always love DDP. But coming in at a close second, Glenn Gilbertti

[SuperOwens]

[QUOTE=Remianen;509969 I agree. Just look at who/what they made the top promotion in the world. That speaks volumes IMO.[/QUOTE] Its unfortunate that all wrestling fans get tarnished with the same brush. But a lot of fans are idiots. Its the main reason it was hard to sell upscale advertising during the business hottest period. Even with Raw and Nitro pulling in crazy numbers high-class brands were weary of the demographic and viewed them as unable to afford there brands. It doesn't stop with the arena fans either, I cringe at some of the attitudes of the so called smart fans (none on this board i hasten to add ;)) People hating DDP is an example of this. Okay you may not think he was the greatest worker, i include myself in that list, you may think it was partly his run at the top that pushed WCW down. But i still cant see how you can hate the guy, he worked hard, put in the time and effort and was part of some good matches. I think even Bishoff said that he never saw DDP as 'the' man. But he was a great company guy that would never let you down and a safe pair of hands to hold the belt. Every promotion needs one of those.

[tristram]

Remianen, either I'm reading your comment wrong or sorry, I completely and utterly disagree 500% with your statement on why Flair hated DDP. That's just so wrong, it's not funny. Diamond Dallas Page got to the top because the fan's recognised the effort the guy put in. You make out as if he got there because he was next door neighbours with Bischoff. That completely and utterly disenfranchises the fans as being idiots (Because let me tell you, they were popping for him before WCW tried to push him), and it also says, hey, you know what, DDP you didn't work hard, you didn't improve a hell of a lot, you weren't charismatic, you were just a scmhoe who knew Bischoff... which is 100% bull. How on earth could Flair hate on DDP for that when Flair is a lot older than DDP and was trying to stay up the top also? The perfect example wasn't even Ric Flair, because the WCW crowd would always buy him as their own, but the perfect example was Hollywood Hogan. Period. Not DDP. I've heard some of the best bookers write about wrestlers not being known as 'old' or 'young' as in their birth certificate, but in terms of their shelf life. DDP started later, his ember caught light later, the fans told WCW to push him well before WCW pushed him. DDP was still a relatively fresh product, the likes of Hollywood Hogan and the Ultimate Warrior were not.

[Vladamire Dracos]

I still remember his best of seven series with Booker T, great stuff! I really think that a lot of fans, especially internet fans, still carry a bias toward the company they supported during the Monday Night Wars (much like gamers still carry their bias for Nintendo/Sega even today, long after Sega has stopped making consoles). That's the only reason I can think of for anyone running down DDP.

[Comradebot]

[QUOTE=Vladamire Dracos;510061]I still remember his best of seven series with Booker T, great stuff! I really think that a lot of fans, especially internet fans, still carry a bias toward the company they supported during the Monday Night Wars (much like gamers still carry their bias for Nintendo/Sega even today, long after Sega has stopped making consoles). That's the only reason I can think of for anyone running down DDP.[/QUOTE] Some smart marks in general dislike because he isn't an ultra-modern high flier or world class technician. Still, I'd rather watch DDP do his thing than Bryan Danielson.

[justtxyank]

[QUOTE=Vladamire Dracos;510061]I still remember his best of seven series with Booker T, great stuff! I really think that a lot of fans, especially internet fans, still carry a bias toward the company they supported during the Monday Night Wars (much like gamers still carry their bias for Nintendo/Sega even today, long after Sega has stopped making consoles). That's the only reason I can think of for anyone running down DDP.[/QUOTE] DDP's best of 7 with Booker T? :confused:

[shamelessposer]

[QUOTE=justtxyank;510072]DDP's best of 7 with Booker T? :confused:[/QUOTE] Yeah, DDP. Short guy, Crippler Crossface?

[Comradebot]

[QUOTE=shamelessposer;510094]Yeah, DDP. Short guy, Crippler Crossface?[/QUOTE] Murdered his family and hung himself, too, right? Oh, that whacky DDP.

[Midnightnick]

[quote=Comradebot;510096]Murdered his family and hung himself, too, right? Oh, that whacky DDP.[/quote] it's me, it's me, it's murder in the first de-gree?

[Comradebot]

[QUOTE=Midnightnick;510098]it's me, it's me, it's murder in the first de-gree?[/QUOTE] She knew it was coming, but when, and where, and.... BANG!!! DIAMOND CUTTER!!!

[SuperOwens]

lol at the last few posts.

[shamelessposer]

[QUOTE=Comradebot;510096]Murdered his family and hung himself, too, right? Oh, that whacky DDP.[/QUOTE] No! That guy was a little bit taller. Blonde, liked the Figure Four, went "Woo" a lot. You know. Bruno Sammartino?

[G-Prime]

Wow, this thread derailed pretty quickly. Bloody hilarious stuff though.

[tristram]

lol, that was Benoit. Great series, I think from memory Booker T had just beaten 'The Model' Rick Martel for the TV Title, and if memory serves me correct post this series Fit Finley had a feud with Chris Benoit over the title. Diamond Dallas was still around then, it was 1998, and he had a spectacular feud with Raven which also resulted in a three-way-dance with Chris Benoit on PPV which will long live as one of the best matches ever. Page busts his arse in that match.

[Vladamire Dracos]

[QUOTE=tristram;510301]lol, that was Benoit. Great series, I think from memory Booker T had just beaten 'The Model' Rick Martel for the TV Title, and if memory serves me correct post this series Fit Finley had a feud with Chris Benoit over the title. Diamond Dallas was still around then, it was 1998, and he had a spectacular feud with Raven which also resulted in a three-way-dance with Chris Benoit on PPV which will long live as one of the best matches ever. Page busts his arse in that match.[/QUOTE] Yeah that was Benoit, once again I prove that lack of sleep and posting don't mix. :p I stand by my previous statement regarding fans on the internet though. Oh, and Martel wasn't using "The Model" gimmick by then, as it was a creation of the WWF, but otherwise you're correct.

[Remianen]

[QUOTE=tristram;510030]Remianen, either I'm reading your comment wrong or sorry, I completely and utterly disagree 500% with your statement on why Flair hated DDP. That's just so wrong, it's not funny. Diamond Dallas Page got to the top because the fan's recognised the effort the guy put in. You make out as if he got there because he was next door neighbours with Bischoff. That completely and utterly disenfranchises the fans as being idiots (Because let me tell you, they were popping for him before WCW tried to push him), and it also says, hey, you know what, DDP you didn't work hard, you didn't improve a hell of a lot, you weren't charismatic, you were just a scmhoe who knew Bischoff... which is 100% bull. How on earth could Flair hate on DDP for that when Flair is a lot older than DDP and was trying to stay up the top also? The perfect example wasn't even Ric Flair, because the WCW crowd would always buy him as their own, but the perfect example was Hollywood Hogan. Period. Not DDP. I've heard some of the best bookers write about wrestlers not being known as 'old' or 'young' as in their birth certificate, but in terms of their shelf life. DDP started later, his ember caught light later, the fans told WCW to push him well before WCW pushed him. DDP was still a relatively fresh product, the likes of Hollywood Hogan and the Ultimate Warrior were not.[/QUOTE] tristram, did you read my entire post or just the first paragraph? I thought I made it clear that I liked and respected DDP. I also pointed out how everything I had read about him (besides Flair's book) spoke positively about his work ethic. Explaining why Flair would burn anyone he saw as being close to Bischoff/Watts/Sullivan doesn't make it my personal opinion of someone. Ever hear the expression "The friend of my enemy is my enemy"?

[cappyboy]

[QUOTE=Remianen;510832]Ever hear the expression "The friend of my enemy is my enemy"?[/QUOTE] Actually, I've always heard it more as "The enemy of my enemy is my friend." But I guess your way works too. Maybe even better via guilt by association.