The Masked Orange Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 Which Raw Superstar do you think will have a standout year in 2009? John Cena 30.26 % Rey Mysterio 6.62 % Randy Orton 33.72 % JBL 2.46 % Shawn Michaels 17.67 % Chris Jericho 2.27 % CM Punk 6.96 % Total Votes: 67835 I know in the past, I have posted such threads and all it lead to was WWE conspiracy theories and me and Ransik calling hate to Batista. But, in an actual WWE poll, it seems the public (or WWE changing the results) are backing a heel. This brings up the question, is the public becoming smarter, like us smarks. Or are WWE hinting at something. This is not a carbon-copy thread. This is a thread about the progression of WWE, away from the gimmicks and the heat, towards the skill and talent. Is this a more ROH-like WWE than of yesteryear. Or has it just switched from the wrestlers gimmicks to the gimmick matches? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GatorBait19 Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 I really think Randy Orton is starting to become a tweener where he is a heel and everybody knows it, but you still seem to love him against any heel you would cheer for Randy, and against some faces, you would cheer for Orton so it doesn't surprise me at all, it would shock me more if Ted Jr. and Manu started their own group to battle Orton's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Casey Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 I think that even the casual fan (still the bulk of the WWE audience, and probably the majority of those who visit the website) can tell than Randy Orton is going places. Prime positioning on the shows, heading up his own group, pulling K2... It doesn't hurt that he's been one fo the best reasons for watching Raw pretty much since his feud with Cena, and the more ruthless and sadistic he gets, the better he becomes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek B Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 I've always liked Randy Orton, he's always been the right kind of heel for me to cheer. And the fact that he's developed into a very solid worker makes me very happy... but it does surprise me to see him topping a poll like this. It also surprises me to see Rey come in below CM Punk, but again, I think it's a good surprise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GDE71 Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 1. Hated Randy Orton. 2. Randy Orton gets better. 3. Hated Randy Orton. 4. Randy Orton gets better. 5. Kind of hate Randy Orton. 6. Randy Orton gets better. 7. Damn, I kind of like Randy Orton. 1. Rey Rey is not a believable threat. 2. Rey Rey is still too tiny. 3. Rey Rey is not a believable threat. 4. Rey Rey is still too tiny. 5. Yep Rey Rey really is not a believable threat and I can't stand to see him in the ring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Shape Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 He can outwrestle people tbh, **** like the spinning armbar vs. punk and reverse frankensteiner on raw prove that if you look at things pseudo-legitimately, then they can put him over, rather than just going the underdog route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eayragt Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 This brings up the question, is the public becoming smarter, like us smarks. I so hope that was said with a touch of irony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GDE71 Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 He can outwrestle people tbh, **** like the spinning armbar vs. punk and reverse frankensteiner on raw prove that if you look at things pseudo-legitimately, then they can put him over, rather than just going the underdog route. Compared to most workers he looks like a KID in the ring. That will never be believable to me. I find something to do when he's on TV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prophet Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 I think people are more drawn to Orton, because he's matured in the ring, character-wise. Orton used to go through the motions, but it never seemed to intertwine, and he ran into a problem that I've noticed Kennedy has as well. And now, so much of what he does, besides being sneaky and underhanded at times, is serpentine. Maybe it's the announcing that helps that, although I can't say for sure, since I mentally tune Michael Cole out, but everything Orton does now has a flow to it. I'm not saying that it's why everyone cheers, or chants RKO, or that it's defined him as an anti-hero, but the fact that people can watch him in the ring, and understand the story he tells, compared to others who still haven't a clue as to who they are, is definitely a positive, I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GatorBait19 Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 He starting to remind me of Austin, because even though he takes out fan favorites, he is still cheered I mean Rock could do the same thing, but Austin was never truly a heel, even when he turned heel, he always had a solid cheer for him no matter what Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Wolf Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 I hate Orton always have probably always will. Anytime Orton is on the screen is usually time for me to refresh my drink or use the bathroom. I just really can't stand the sound of his voice or watching him to anything. To me there are so many more people who can play the ****y heel better than him and for some reason I just am totally unentertained by him in ring and out. Rey on the other hand is unbelievable but for my money so much more exciting to watch. And I find believable as the man with the fighting spirit on the mic. But I guess I've never liked big guys I find fliers a lot more exciting in ring. So I say bleh on the WWE poll I guess but whatever I like what I like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTial Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 John Cena 30.26 % Rey Mysterio 6.62 % Randy Orton 33.72 % JBL 2.46 % Shawn Michaels 17.67 % Chris Jericho 2.27 % CM Punk 6.96 % Nothing's really changed. The smark vote would have been for Chris Jericho dominating. This is pretty much just based around which storylines and wrestlers are getting PPV appearances in decent manner. Notice how JBL is in there. I bet that was more due to being bundled with Shawn Michaels. CM Punk is a former champion that people felt was treated unfairly and the storyline even painted it that way. Rey Mysterio hasn't pulled a decent aerial move for awhile so when people see this little guy look bad and play technical to Punk and the others and especially with Evan Bourne doing borderline spot-monkey moves that other wrestlers weren't allowed before, Rey's not going to skyrocket. Too much injury. Too little story behind him. Cliche'd gimmick. Everything looks stale with Rey now. Some might appreciate his road to a more technical grappling style of wrestling but this is a poor age for technical wrestlers. Randy Orton is just because it's been awhile since people felt that tweener young rebellious guy from the days of Bret, Shawn, Austin and Rock that wasn't this guy that always needed the belt like HHH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djthefunkchris Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 Which Raw Superstar do you think will have a standout year in 2009? John Cena 30.26 % Rey Mysterio 6.62 % Randy Orton 33.72 % JBL 2.46 % Shawn Michaels 17.67 % Chris Jericho 2.27 % CM Punk 6.96 % Total Votes: 67835 I know in the past, I have posted such threads and all it lead to was WWE conspiracy theories and me and Ransik calling hate to Batista. But, in an actual WWE poll, it seems the public (or WWE changing the results) are backing a heel. This brings up the question, is the public becoming smarter, like us smarks. Or are WWE hinting at something. This is not a carbon-copy thread. This is a thread about the progression of WWE, away from the gimmicks and the heat, towards the skill and talent. Is this a more ROH-like WWE than of yesteryear. Or has it just switched from the wrestlers gimmicks to the gimmick matches? You know... I never understood the Smark vs. general Public thing.... Do people actually think that the "Public" think it's real? Does anyone think the Public has been left out of the loop for the last 20 years? Your talking about a show where the "owner" of the show was blown up, but because of a "Real Life" incident, explained on the flagship show how things have changed.... Vince said something similar to "Tonight's show was supposed to have a storyline about the demise of my character, Mr. McMahan. However, because of the VERY REAL loss of Chris Benoit, we will not be broadcasting that tonight." The public has known for as long as you have known. The people that STILL THINK it's real are the same people that thought it was real 20, 30, 40, 50, even 60 years ago. People have known wrestling is fake since television has been broadcast. The only difference, is that the wrestling promotions no longer "pretend" as much as they did back then, that it's real. People aren't getting any smarter. The biggest difference in someone like "us" and "them" are we know the "Slang" or some of it. We also know what a Road Agent, Booker, etc... are. To someone unkowing, they would probably think a Road Agent set up the rings. But really... A push = They got him winning! Jobbed = They had him lose. Face turns heel = He's a bad guy now Heel turns face = He's a good guy now Bump = Wow, did you see that dive? Rest Hold = They're tired Psychology = Wow, that looks real. Mark = Shhhh.... He thinks it's real. Botch = Dang, he's hurt for real..> Or Ha, he didn't even touch him and he fell. Angle/Storyline = He/She wants that title now, or He/she is mad at him/her. Babyface = Good guy Heel = Bad Guy Blading = Look at all that blood! Bury = They don't let him win anything. Bah, I could go through the whole alphabet, but you get what I mean. NO... The public does not "think" that wrestling is real. There was a poll done around the time that Geraldo or whatever his name, took that punch in the face. This was in the 1980's... People over 21 that thought it was real, showed something like 2%. People under 21 (it might have been 18) that thought it was real was like 12%.. wasn't much of a difference. Most people didn't think it was real then, don't think it's real now, and didn't think it was real in 1940 either. When I read things like this, it makes me think that most "Smarks" are actually out of the loop, moreso then the general public. I can understand the desire to think your in a special group of people that realise that Santa is actually Mom and DAd, but most kids over 10 already know that. Fact... It's about the same amount of people believe in Santa, that believe wrestling is "real". What they might not realise is how physical it really is, moreso then how phony it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blasphemywebleed Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 Excellent well thought out post DJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GDE71 Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 You know... I never understood the Smark vs. general Public thing.... Do people actually think that the "Public" think it's real? Does anyone think the Public has been left out of the loop for the last 20 years? Your talking about a show where the "owner" of the show was blown up, but because of a "Real Life" incident, explained on the flagship show how things have changed.... Vince said something similar to "Tonight's show was supposed to have a storyline about the demise of my character, Mr. McMahan. However, because of the VERY REAL loss of Chris Benoit, we will not be broadcasting that tonight." The public has known for as long as you have known. The people that STILL THINK it's real are the same people that thought it was real 20, 30, 40, 50, even 60 years ago. People have known wrestling is fake since television has been broadcast. The only difference, is that the wrestling promotions no longer "pretend" as much as they did back then, that it's real. People aren't getting any smarter. The biggest difference in someone like "us" and "them" are we know the "Slang" or some of it. We also know what a Road Agent, Booker, etc... are. To someone unkowing, they would probably think a Road Agent set up the rings. But really... A push = They got him winning! Jobbed = They had him lose. Face turns heel = He's a bad guy now Heel turns face = He's a good guy now Bump = Wow, did you see that dive? Rest Hold = They're tired Psychology = Wow, that looks real. Mark = Shhhh.... He thinks it's real. Botch = Dang, he's hurt for real..> Or Ha, he didn't even touch him and he fell. Angle/Storyline = He/She wants that title now, or He/she is mad at him/her. Babyface = Good guy Heel = Bad Guy Blading = Look at all that blood! Bury = They don't let him win anything. Bah, I could go through the whole alphabet, but you get what I mean. NO... The public does not "think" that wrestling is real. There was a poll done around the time that Geraldo or whatever his name, took that punch in the face. This was in the 1980's... People over 21 that thought it was real, showed something like 2%. People under 21 (it might have been 18) that thought it was real was like 12%.. wasn't much of a difference. Most people didn't think it was real then, don't think it's real now, and didn't think it was real in 1940 either. When I read things like this, it makes me think that most "Smarks" are actually out of the loop, moreso then the general public. I can understand the desire to think your in a special group of people that realise that Santa is actually Mom and DAd, but most kids over 10 already know that. Fact... It's about the same amount of people believe in Santa, that believe wrestling is "real". What they might not realise is how physical it really is, moreso then how phony it is. I think you overestimate some of my fellow Kentuckians as to them knowing wrestling is scripted. I do agree that if someone believes in Santa, then they don't know wrestling is scripted. Usually you can tell by how someone talks about wrestling if they know it's scripted or not. Wrestling have never been fake and the use of the word fake is something that really bothers me. Those bumps they take are very real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djthefunkchris Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 I hate Orton always have probably always will. Anytime Orton is on the screen is usually time for me to refresh my drink or use the bathroom. I just really can't stand the sound of his voice or watching him to anything. To me there are so many more people who can play the ****y heel better than him and for some reason I just am totally unentertained by him in ring and out. Rey on the other hand is unbelievable but for my money so much more exciting to watch. And I find believable as the man with the fighting spirit on the mic. But I guess I've never liked big guys I find fliers a lot more exciting in ring. So I say bleh on the WWE poll I guess but whatever I like what I like. I think you overestimate some of my fellow Kentuckians as to them knowing wrestling is scripted. I do agree that if someone believes in Santa, then they don't know wrestling is scripted. Usually you can tell by how someone talks about wrestling if they know it's scripted or not. Wrestling have never been fake and the use of the word fake is something that really bothers me. Those bumps they take are very real. Bassically, that's what I meant by this statement. What they might not realise is how physical it really is, moreso then how phony it is. Everyone may not realise the extent of damage they do take... That's what "Smarks" probably realise better then the General Public. Far as your Kentuckians go..> I'm pretty sure they were in those polls as well, so maybe they are now less knowledgeable then at that time period? I don't know. I do know, I have friends that "Know" it's scripted, but think things are more real then they really are (Even my wife), but they don't believe in it like they do MMA or Boxing (Far as a sport goes). They just watch wrestling more, lol. I think my point still stands though. Fake = Having a false or misleading appearance; fraudulent. One that is not authentic or genuine; a sham. To contrive and present as genuine; counterfeit. To simulate; feign. not genuine or real; being an imitation of the genuine article; "it isn't fake anything; it's real synthetic fur"; "faux pearls"; "false teeth"; "decorated with imitation palm leaves"; "a purse of simulated alligator hide" A hoax, a deliberate attempt to dupe, deceive or trick an audience into believing, or accepting, that something is real, when in fact it is not; or that something is true, when in fact it is false. To me, what Vince did was change "Faking" into "Magic" (which is already what it was anyways, but he quit pretending like the audience was believing). So instead of "pretending" that wrestling is a sport, he called it sports entertainment, in which he quit trying to "Fool" people, and instead make them want to be "Fooled" or tricked. He turned it into "Magic"... We will continue to do what we do best, Entertain You! No matter how real the injuries are, wrestling as a "sport" (professional wrestling that is), is a complete fake by definition. That doesn't have anything to do with how much pain one goes through doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infinitywpi Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 I think it's just the 'General Public' being able to tell who's in line for a push. They can tell that the Legacy is being built up, and probably that we'll get Orton/Cena after Orton/Kane is blown off at No Way Out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTial Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 When I read things like this, it makes me think that most "Smarks" are actually out of the loop, moreso then the general public. I can understand the desire to think your in a special group of people that realise that Santa is actually Mom and DAd, but most kids over 10 already know that. Fact... It's about the same amount of people believe in Santa, that believe wrestling is "real". This is the more obvious point but there's also a subtle difference especially when both smarks and public fans as you said, know wrestling is scripted. A push = They got him winning! It has been delegated this way because of more stupider and younger generation smarks over-simplifying the concept but it used to have more of a value akin to asking the question "Who deserves to win?" rather than Wow, he won. He's finally getting a push. Jobbed = They had him lose. This used to have more prestige especially when the WWF used to toe the line where a wrestler doesn't just lose but by losing he added to the quality of the wrestler's prestige in ways that go beyond the effect of just losing after he has been hyped up. Basically, it used to show how in the past, there was no auto-win even when he's supposed to win. Hence scripted. It also means that the finisher needs to be more of a struggle than something that ends a match. Indies and Puroresu still do this to an extent but nowadays it's just simply losing. Face turns heel = He's a bad guy now Heel turns face = He's a good guy now Yeah this is outdated now. Bump = Wow, did you see that dive? This had a weird metamorphosis. It used to be a dive then extreme wrestling got popular and became more about tables and ladders and then WWE watered those down and it became more of a dive again. Psychology = Wow, that looks real. Not really. Theoretically it should be this way but the term had so much openness and people didn't quite appreciate Bret's non-flashy style of wrestling that most people nowadays just think it's anything that other guy or that smark you agree with think is good. Used properly, this is one of the most highest praise you can give to a wrestler because it means he didn't break reality in his matches at a consistent basis. This means no Pedigree that automatically causes the opponent to magically get knocked out. No jumping off a table when you could easily dispose your opponent in a quicker way unless you really really want to hurt him bad. No attacking a single parts just because that's what most people see as ring psychology and a consistent flow of movement that makes people think they were seeing a MMA fight with aerial moves, more stylized grappling and a constant tango where even a power wrestler can be defeated because a technical wrestler scouted them out or a speedy wrestler used his speed to constantly move away from his opponents. Mark = Shhhh.... He thinks it's real. This is more like he's into it nowadays. Angle/Storyline = He/She wants that title now, or He/she is mad at him/her. Well, it used to have less prestige like this. It used to be that it's called an Angle precisely because the professional wrestlers were supposed to tell the story in the ring and the angle was more like an appetizer to that. Nowadays this just means there's a storyline before the fight, there's someone winning and losing after the fight and there's a next storyline coming right after it. Bury = They don't let him win anything. Used to be, the guy was a poor overhyped wrestler. Basically the key difference even today is that smarks are more hardcore fans who think they know what the public wants and can maximize the entertainment value of an event where fans are the reactive observers who cheer for whomever they're feed to cheer. The fact that nowadays this has little difference is less due to there being no difference but that the smark fanbase have been watered down as the generation of WWE watchers learn more about the internet and share their biased opinions with few justified cases and discussions and it becomes more like an alternative bandwagon. I'm biased though because I feel that at the most mainstream, pro-wrestling died and was only kept alive by McMahon Jr. turning WWF into sports entertainment with the Hulk Hogan era and then guys like Bret came in and adapted to this and added a realism to each fight and didn't hog the title that added and allowed for the credibility of Shawn, Austin and the others because of the lack of fear of being buried at the top and so this new guys with decent wrestling and great charisma propelled the smark era to the top especially as more fans found out wrestling was scripted and then the Monday Night Wars happened and reality went out of the gutter in favor of pure entertainment, wrestler name hype and more fake bookings culminating in the Fingerpoke of Doom which to their credit, most fans finally woke up to how the sports they love is degrading in front of their eyes but it was too late and a younger generation had arisen and the smark community became more and more about enjoying which fed they want rather than trying to save wrestling from it's downfall. (not in a wrestling is dying way but wrestling is becoming like ****ty kid's cartoons that pale in comparison to some of the best kid's cartoons in the past that had more mature themes rather than flashy themes) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GDE71 Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 Pro Wrestling is not fake. You will never get me to agree that it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTial Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 To me, what Vince did was change "Faking" into "Magic" (which is already what it was anyways, but he quit pretending like the audience was believing). So instead of "pretending" that wrestling is a sport, he called it sports entertainment, in which he quit trying to "Fool" people, and instead make them want to be "Fooled" or tricked. He turned it into "Magic"... We will continue to do what we do best, Entertain You! No matter how real the injuries are, wrestling as a "sport" (professional wrestling that is), is a complete fake by definition. That doesn't have anything to do with how much pain one goes through doing it. This is actually why there used to be a fad where smarks say pro-wrestling is scripted and WWE is fake. Nowadays it's less as loud but I think neither is accurate. The best "fake" wrestling matches are still more magical than the best "magic" matches. Don't be fooled just cause WWE is on top. People nowadays don't know what entertains them. They just consume based on the fact that it's entertainment. If it's a reality TV that's currently on TV, it doesn't matter to them if it replaced a great show, it's the new thing to watch when you get home or download from the internet. Again, for this same reason, it doesn't matter to them which fed is on top. As long as they see free wrestling on TV with good production, it's all right by their book. This holds true even for most of the smark community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilts Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 It has been delegated this way because of more stupider and younger generation smarks Ok, first off, damn boy! Please do not talk about anyone being stupid when you write like this. Secondly, This is actually why there used to be a fad where smarks say pro-wrestling is scripted and WWE is fake. Nowadays it's less as loud but I think neither is accurate. The best "fake" wrestling matches are still more magical than the best "magic" matches. Don't be fooled just cause WWE is on top. People nowadays don't know what entertains them. They just consume based on the fact that it's entertainment. If it's a reality TV that's currently on TV, it doesn't matter to them if it replaced a great show, it's the new thing to watch when you get home or download from the internet. Again, for this same reason, it doesn't matter to them which fed is on top. As long as they see free wrestling on TV with good production, it's all right by their book. This holds true even for most of the smark community. Who are you, or any of us to say that people don't know what entertainment is? WWE are on top for a reason, people like them, people pay money to watch them, whether you or I think it is entertaining is irelevant. To me, watching paint dry is boring as hell, but it may well be a bucket of laughs and the most entertaining thing on the planet to the next bloke. Entertainment is a personal thing, not a universal fact. Back to smarks now and joe public, if I ever call myself a smark, please shoot me. The image portrayed by prominent self-proclaimed smarks is of pure arrogance and to quote SDvsRaw2009, they seem to be citizens of "betterthanutopia" To the contrary of "smark" belief, the public are not stupid, they may be uninformed, misinformed or confused, but they are not stupid, whilst smarks are not the know-it-all "upper-class" of the wrestling community that they believe they are. By actively pursuing the image of a smark, you are ruining something that you enjoy...If we all stop complaining, predicting and offering our opinions, then we would all enjoy the show far more. 'smart-marks' vs joe public? I side with joe public every day of the week, at least he gets to enjoy it, and lets be honest, wrestling isn't the be all and end all in life.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infinitywpi Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 Who are you, or any of us to say that people don't know what entertainment is? WWE are on top for a reason, people like them, people pay money to watch them, whether you or I think it is entertaining is irelevant. See, this is the attitude I love. Not to pick on you or anything, but I just want to point out one thing. The WWE is on top of the wrestling world. In the entertainment world... they're not that big. Sure, they have shirts, action figures, PPV, live events... the WWE stopped coming around here due to low attendance. But the Monster Trucks show up once a year, like clockwork, because they damn near fill the arena. The musical acts, the college wrestling, hell, freakin' Sesame Street Live draw bigger numbers than WWE did here. Merchandising? Pick any kids' cartoon on TV, and it has t-shirts, action figures, straight-to-DVD movies, and videogames. Compare their live attendance numbers with any other roving 'entertainment', and they don't look as good as they used to. WWE is not the multimedia juggernaut of entertainment it pretends to be. They are not 'on top' of anything except their own little monkey-bars which right now only have two other kids swinging from the bottom rungs. Okay. Back to your previously-scheduled smart-mark discussion, already in progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTial Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 Who are you, or any of us to say that people don't know what entertainment is? WWE are on top for a reason, people like them, people pay money to watch them, whether you or I think it is entertaining is irelevant. To me, watching paint dry is boring as hell, but it may well be a bucket of laughs and the most entertaining thing on the planet to the next bloke. Entertainment is a personal thing, not a universal fact. Apparently you don't understand what a monopoly means and the value of competition is. Sorry if I hurt your political correct way of thinking but yes, I do have a right to know what is entertaining for me. It's as you called it "a personal thing". Back to smarks now and joe public, if I ever call myself a smark, please shoot me. The image portrayed by prominent self-proclaimed smarks is of pure arrogance and to quote SDvsRaw2009, they seem to be citizens of "betterthanutopia" Or maybe they just have another opinion? The irony of guys like you is you like to react because someone made a direct statement that hurt your feelings but to anyone that comprehends your statement, you just indirectly said the other side is stupid and did the same insult you were against of. To paraphrase the same theme you seem to be espousing: "Who are you to assume that smarks are arrogant?" To the contrary of "smark" belief, the public are not stupid, they may be uninformed, misinformed or confused, but they are not stupid, whilst smarks are not the know-it-all "upper-class" of the wrestling community that they believe they are. To the contrary of your belief, most true smarks know and treat them as this way. By true I don't mean one who claims themselves as a smark but one who values what that definition mean and doesn't just throw them around anytime they disagree with what the public likes or hate. By actively pursuing the image of a smark, you are ruining something that you enjoy...If we all stop complaining, predicting and offering our opinions, then we would all enjoy the show far more. No, this is precisely why I said being a smark is a watered down definition nowadays. Most true smarks don't predict without treating it as just a fun thing to do. They don't give any importance to it. That is why they used terms such as jobbing and pushing. It's supposed to represent a case where you don't put value over the outcome of the match over someone's performance. It's these modern smarks that give these images that I precisely don't claim to be a smark anymore. Doesn't mean there didn't used to be a subtle distinct difference though. Smarks used to proclaim themselves as smarks mostly as a protest to an undeserving worker being given preference over a talented worker. It used to be not about complaining though sometimes biases and heated discussions can lead to that. It's objectively criticizing and holding the sport you like accountable. It is no different than someone offering a critical review of a well liked movie so that future viewers could gain a different perspective from the other perspectives and can help better understand what the sports was about. 'smart-marks' vs joe public? I side with joe public every day of the week, at least he gets to enjoy it, and lets be honest, wrestling isn't the be all and end all in life.... Again to play your hypocritical game: Who are you to say Smarks don't enjoy their sport and what right do you have to tell someone what isn't and is the end be all to their life? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilts Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 hold your horses bucky. You have got the wrong end of the stick, I wasn't trying to argue with anyone, just putting out another side to the discussion. Obviously some people just come here to argue, so I'm off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blasphemywebleed Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 There isnt a thread on here that doesnt end in an arguement these days . Just keep personal attacks out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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