Bigpapa42 Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 This is probably an odd question, but I started to think about it the other day while reading some diaries. Just looking for opinions, obviously, as I don't think there is or can be a "right" answer (unless Adam decides to provide it). Is kayfabe still in effect in the contemporary (2008 start date) CornellVerse? If not, was it one major incident that killed it off? Several smaller incidents combined with a gradual erosion? Or just a straight gradual erosion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comradebot Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 I'd like to think, in my EWA game, that the fans think its all very, very serious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Kane Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 well... since sports entertainment is on a clear decline year to year in the cornellverse i would assume that is hand in hand with the break of kayfabe.... i mean theirs nothing but war all over the wrestling scean in the cornellverse right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesseewiak Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Well, the thing is, do you mean does it exist as in 1983 Mid-South when wrestlers were attacked by fans after shows or 2000-style WWE when it's treated as 'real' on TV but acknowledged as 'fake' on DVD's and such? Remember, the Wrestling Observer started twenty-odd years ago. There have always been 'smart' fans, they just got a lot larger as a result of the Internet. So, I think the state of kayfabe would probably depend on the promotion, just like in real life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djthefunkchris Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 This is probably an odd question, but I started to think about it the other day while reading some diaries. Just looking for opinions, obviously, as I don't think there is or can be a "right" answer (unless Adam decides to provide it). Is kayfabe still in effect in the contemporary (2008 start date) CornellVerse? If not, was it one major incident that killed it off? Several smaller incidents combined with a gradual erosion? Or just a straight gradual erosion? Personally, I think it's been left vague on purpose. The two prominant promotions (to me) are kind of WWE/WCW types. Not exact counterparts, but they are there. The rest all kind of have their own unique real life counterparts as well. It's almost to me... Like they are roughly 10 years behind their real life counterparts. Far as Kafabe though, I think it's kind of like now. I don't know of any wrestling company that just outright leaves it out. Even WWE makes all their larger then life storylines and gimmicks seem as though this is really happening. You can always find out the "real" scoop, but ussually from another source. All storylines, gimmicks, and angles are "Kafabe". SO it's alive and well. You don't have to worry about what people think "outside" of your show, because we don't have those types of effects in the game. In real life, Kafabe is broken when a wrestler says something like "Yeah, I know Orton punted me in the head, but I'm actually out for a torn legiment in my knee". In the old days, we would be told by the wrestler he was out because of the punt... even if the doctor confirmed to us that he was in for a knee injury (or they might try to say the punt actually tore the knee legimant). Suspension of disbelief is only a "part" of kafabe. Do the people really "Believe" wrestling is real in the C-Verse? I think that is completely left up to you (and I) the players of the game. Now if the internet stories went "X was punted in the head last night, and will be out with a concussion for three weeks" and you were the one that had this wrestler "Punted" as part of a storyline... I would say Kafabe was definately alive and well. However, in the game... if someone is out, it seems as though it just says what happens for real, and no indication of if it was meant to be part of a storyline "X was hurt at a house show in Memphis, and will be out for 3 months" is kind of what we get. If you hire this guy, you will find out that the injury is "real". So only real information is what we get in the internet concerning these types of stories. So I say... Yes and NO. Depending on your own desire (whatever makes us happier). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kovic Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 XWA's promotion profile: X-Wrestling America is a project designed to "put the genie back in the bottle" by returning to a fully-kayfabed vision of wrestling. Matches are very realistic, without crossing over into MMA territory, and the wrestlers are presented as serious athletes looking for good competition. Their problem is not in producing good matches or getting fantastic workers, it is purely whether they can get fans to buy a kayfabed promotion in the modern era. make your own decisions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeemuFoundation Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 It's Still Real To Me Damnit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoNeck Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 It's Still Real To Me Damnit! That makes me laugh every time. Well played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D16NJD16 Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Well, the thing is, do you mean does it exist as in 1983 Mid-South when wrestlers were attacked by fans after shows or 2000-style WWE when it's treated as 'real' on TV but acknowledged as 'fake' on DVD's and such? Or current style where its all one big joke and only the 5 year olds are to take anything seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigpapa42 Posted January 3, 2009 Author Share Posted January 3, 2009 Personally, I think it's been left vague on purpose. The two prominant promotions (to me) are kind of WWE/WCW types. Not exact counterparts, but they are there. The rest all kind of have their own unique real life counterparts as well. It's almost to me... Like they are roughly 10 years behind their real life counterparts. Far as Kafabe though, I think it's kind of like now. I don't know of any wrestling company that just outright leaves it out. Even WWE makes all their larger then life storylines and gimmicks seem as though this is really happening. You can always find out the "real" scoop, but ussually from another source. All storylines, gimmicks, and angles are "Kafabe". SO it's alive and well. You don't have to worry about what people think "outside" of your show, because we don't have those types of effects in the game. In real life, Kafabe is broken when a wrestler says something like "Yeah, I know Orton punted me in the head, but I'm actually out for a torn legiment in my knee". In the old days, we would be told by the wrestler he was out because of the punt... even if the doctor confirmed to us that he was in for a knee injury (or they might try to say the punt actually tore the knee legimant). Suspension of disbelief is only a "part" of kafabe. Do the people really "Believe" wrestling is real in the C-Verse? I think that is completely left up to you (and I) the players of the game. Now if the internet stories went "X was punted in the head last night, and will be out with a concussion for three weeks" and you were the one that had this wrestler "Punted" as part of a storyline... I would say Kafabe was definately alive and well. However, in the game... if someone is out, it seems as though it just says what happens for real, and no indication of if it was meant to be part of a storyline "X was hurt at a house show in Memphis, and will be out for 3 months" is kind of what we get. If you hire this guy, you will find out that the injury is "real". So only real information is what we get in the internet concerning these types of stories. So I say... Yes and NO. Depending on your own desire (whatever makes us happier). I absolutely agree that stuff like this is probably left unaddressed on purpose. As much as I love the history and depth of the CornellVerse, its really cool that stuff is left up to the imagination. I envision the kayfabe situation similar to reality. Maybe a bit more in place. But the Internet did a lot to kill it, and I figure that's probably the same in the CornellVerse. Maybe they didn't have particular events like they did in reality (Duggan-Shiek arrest, steroid scandal, Montreal), but certain things that wore away at it. I could even see the infamous Nemesis-Cornell match as causing some problems in that regard. I don't think it would be completely the same as reality, though. I would hope they would maintain the illusion a bit more where it comes to characters and storylines. Not that they would necessarily go the extremes promotions and workers in the 70s and 80s. But at least a bit of that. So you could kind of believe that the personalities you see on TV actually are the real personality, not just a role they are playing. So heels could still be heels, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvdWarrior Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 In "my own personal CornellVerse", I like to think Kayfabe is a lot like it was way back in the Monday Night Wars Era, (at least how it was for me). You know, a TON of interest in wrestling, (the battle for prominence between the two biggest promotions in the land made for a lot of attention), and the genie wasn't completely out of the bottle - the fans knew, but they didn't know everything, or something like that. Tons of speculation over where this wrestler or that one is going to land, (is this guy going to jump ship to the WWF? Is this dude coming to WCW? That sort of thing.), or what controversies were really going on behind the scenes. And then there was ECW - - or DAVE - - to consider. Gee, I hope I'm not being too confusing here, I'm sure I had a point, I just hope it didn't get too lost in the 'dvdWarrior-babble'. I kind of confused myself a little bit as I was typing it. The second half of the 1990's was such a great time in wrestling for me, (as opposed to now), and I like to envision that CornellVerse in that particular light. Think that's what I'm trying to get at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackman Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 As for injuries. I don't really see how you can keyfabe an injury, given you don't really know it's going to happen. As far as I see it, realism promoitions (I tend to play these the most) can perfectly sell it without using kayfabe. In the end the wrestler got hurt by his opponent: that's how it is, that's how it's supposed to be told. Sure you can sell it as though it was done on purpose, but that presupposes you would have integrated that as part of the storyline. If wrestlers need time off screen for a gimmick shift, then you can kayfabe it as an injury, but i don't see how this is not possible in the game. The game gives you the perspective of wrestling sites like gerweck, where you get an objective view on the wrestling world, w/o kayfabe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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