Jim Cornette Rant

[keefmoon]

I don't know if this has been mentioned but this is awesome. Jim Cornette ranting pretty much on the WWE and the concept of their creative team. Nothing particularly groundbreaking or that he's probably not said in the past, but with Cornette's passion for the business and some of the points he brings up I think it's a fascinating read.

 

http://www.jimcornette.com/Commentary.html

 

And please, please, don't let this turn in to a WWE vs TNA flame fileld argument. I just thought some people might want to check out what I think is an absolutely awesome read.

[Self]

Man, I saw this a few days ago and meant to post it, but... Yeah. Something shiny distracted me. Damned magpie DNA.

 

Very interesting read. While on one hand I agree with everything he says, on the other I don't. Personally I think College educated writers ARE the way to go in order to make WWE/TNA, as TV shows, become modern and relevant forms of entertainment. However, the old-school basics still apply at a core level, and if WWE/TNA are neglecting those lessons then it's probably a mistake.

 

I'd go for the middle ground. Half Cornette approach. Half Steph approach.

[Prophet]

I think the only flaw in the system, as Cornette essentially pointed out, is the lack of wrestling knowledge. People who didn't grow up as fans, who didn't feel the goosebumps of Hogan/Warrior, or who struggled to choose a side with Bret/Owen, don't fully grasp the passion wrestling can convey. College educated writers who are familiar with the modern medium of television is nothing but a bonus, but if they don't fully understand what paved the way, and are truly embarassed by their profession, they won't help put forth the best product possible.

 

I will also say that Jim Cornette, in my opinion, is one of the greatest minds in professional wrestling today, and is probably one of the more underappreciated.

[Actarus]

Speaking of Jim Cornette, Lance Storm does a great impression of him. If you care to listen, Storm did a 40+ minute interview with wrestlecrap radio. Great interview overall, but the Jim Cornette stories are a lot of fun to listen to.

 

http://wrestlecrap.libsyn.com/index.php?post_id=422732

[Bigpapa42]

Read that a few days ago. Agree for the most part. I think the issue that Cornette talks about affects both WWE and TNA.

[dvdWarrior]

I can't help but agree with Cornette on this one...

 

Actually, my opinions on wrestling matters are in line with Cornette's nine times out of ten. Maybe WWE and TNA do need the college-educated writers to make their shows relevant entertainment, but all of the overbooking they do nowadays really drains the care out of my tires.

[BurningHamster]

I love Jim Cornette. He's not as often on the mark these days as he used to be, since I think the burden of living for so long with the amount of frustration he carries around would be enough to drive a lesser man completely insane. That said, he was spot on with this rant.

 

I personally don't care who books or writes wrestling as long as I enjoy it. From watching small amounts of WWE in recent years they really just don't have much for me to enjoy. Things feel way too scripted, angles go on too long, nothing makes any real sense, almost everything is meant to be funny and misses the mark ... it's just plain bad most of the time.

 

I don't know, I think there are times when WWE doesn't really know what audience they are aiming at. If you can say one thing for Paul Heyman, it's that he knew his audience and tried to give them what they want. WWE seems to go between being childish, to being overly sexual, to being bad comedy to making no sense. Who the hell is the target demographic who wants childish good guy versus bad guy stories and simple gimmicks, half naked skanks and sexual jokes, bad comedy skits that rarely lead anywhere and an overall lack of coherence?

 

And that isn't even mentioning what the show should be about in the first place. Wrestling.

 

Unfortunately I think Jim Cornette has been raging against the machine so long that few people in the business take him seriously. I mean if WWE can make money doing what they are doing now, why listen to a guy whose indy promotion went out of a business over a decage ago? Making sense has never been very high on the WWE agenda.

[sheepy]

Certainly agree with what he said in regards to wrestlers not being given the freedom to develop their personality and characters. I think this is the biggest reason that they've not made any real stars since the likes of Austin et al. There's just nothing to differentiate wrestlers any more unless your insanely big or just insane and do ridiculous spots (and to stand out in this way you end up with wrestlers taking steroids or leaving their bodies so battered they can barely walk)

 

I don't completely disagree with bringing in non-wrestling fans onto creative as your more likely to have a fresh mind come up with something that hasn't been seen before and keeping things fresh and evolving in the wwe is vital to keep it where it is. That said, you can't completely get rid of creative staff that are familiar with the business as only they really understand how to move stories forward in matchs and how to make the matches the centre piece of any feuds (something that happens less and less now)

[CQI13]

Entertaining, but at least he defends it as his opinion.

 

Didn't TNA have Fat Oily Guy? Doesn't TNA employ the same guy he railed against before (Russo) albeit he's no longer in a position of power?

 

TNA employs past talent as writers/bookers or whatever they have, and we complain that their stuff doesn't make sense most of the time. Who's being more successful at what they're doing?

[Derek B]

In my own opinion, Jim Cornette is still one of the greatest wrestling minds in the industry today... his old school mentality is a product of an era where performers turned themselves into stars through creative freedom and unique looks, held together by a small number of key personnel who gave everyone a direction.

 

These days, as JC says, there are a lot of people pushing in different directions and the talent doesn't even get the chance to have any creative freedom unless they have already proven themselves... it's been like that for a long time and as the last of the mid90s stars come to the end of their careers I genuinely worry for the future of mainstream wrestling, with fewer and fewer people ever having the chance to develop fully without being stepped all over by writers.

 

That isn't to say that writers are a bad thing in wrestling. Not everyone has all the tools to become a star (look, charisma/mic skills, talent) but each area can be improved with the right kind of staff to help. Good nutritionists and wardrobe can help give guys a look, writers can help inexperience and unconfident guys to work on promo skills and experienced in ring performers can probably do it all.

 

But a lot of the time mainstream wrestling just doesn't appear to know what it's doing or where it's going. Once upon a time the WWF could have a dozen threads of rivalries running through the company at any one time, weaving around each other and telling the storylines that helped draw huge numbers of fans to the early Wrestlemania. But the WWE these days just doesn't allow for creative freedom when the camera is turned on and many shows end up being a series of skits, loosely connected from week to week.

 

People don't and can't associate themselves with the characters as much as they used to. I can't see anyone saying "hey, I'm just like HHH!" or "I'm know someone just like the Boogeyman!" and the loss of a human connection is one of the main reasons (I believe) that people are tuning out of pro wrestling in general. There are some people who the fans can get behind, because they are the ones who are really booked as being more like people than most others. And while there are times the WWE can get behind someone (like a Jeff Hardy), there are just too many times where they end up force feeding us something that we can just tell is forced onto TV to amuse those with a short attention span.

 

I wish there was more wrestling, or even wrasslin' on TV... because putting wrestlers and wrasslers on TV has always been good for business, while Sports Entertainment is slowly killing wrassling forever by not allowing the talent to be anything more than actors.

[The Final Countdown]

These days, as JC says, there are a lot of people pushing in different directions and the talent doesn't even get the chance to have any creative freedom unless they have already proven themselves... it's been like that for a long time and as the last of the mid90s stars come to the end of their careers I genuinely worry for the future of mainstream wrestling, with fewer and fewer people ever having the chance to develop fully without being stepped all over by writers.

I completely agree with everything in your post, but I highlighted this part in particular because it is what I think is the single biggest problem with "the big time" these days.

 

Just a couple of days ago, I popped in ROH's Death Before Dishonor III, and watched a classic promo from CM Punk. At the start of the promo, the fans loved him; he had just won the ROH World title for the first time, amidst news that he was on the verge of signing with WWE. But by the end of the promo, they HATED him, and couldn't wait for someone to come down and kick his ass. He did such a good job of manipulating the crowd, tying all of his actions for over a year together into one of the best heel turns I've ever seen.

 

Where is that CM Punk today? He doesn't exist, because he doesn't get to cut promos; he has to read off of a script handed to him by a Hollywood reject who's never wrestled a match or cut a promo in his life. And even I, someone who was a HUGE Punk supporter during his ROH days, and bought quite a few $20 DVDs with Punk as a featured performer, would not pay a dime to watch him headline a PPV. His WWE character has no personality that I can discern. I think they've mentioned he is Straight Edge once or twice, but that's about it.

[Self]

On the subject of actors. I think WWE should hire some. I mean, look at Tiffany (hands where I can see them, folks) she's playing the role of General Manager of ECW and she's incredibly wooden. Couldn't they have hired some actress, like an properly trained, talented actress, who's just as pretty, to play that role? Go to any Hollywood Casting agency and you'll find a bunch of better candidate. That's one 'old-school' part of wrestling that remains that baffles me. If they're a legitimate television show they should hire legitimate actors for non-wrestling roles.

[CQI13]

Could it also be a way to cover their ass, and basically protect themselves from some kind of backlash? If someone decided to pull a Scott Steiner (back in the end of WCW) it may become a bigger deal because it's WWE.

 

And while I agree with Cornette on some stuff, and I'm NOT saying he's not a great mind (I really think he is), he seems to be off the mark on this. WWE have positioned themselves as entertainment. Let them do what they want. TNA wants to be wrestling and/or entertainment. Focus on what you're doing, leave others alone. For all their faults, WWE is still doing well.

[Hive]

I recently watched a few RAW shows as well as some of Wrestlemania to see where wrestling was at today. I also often check results from WWE and TNA shows.

 

I must say, what I was boring and lame. Maybe I remember wrestling from my childhood differently because I myself was a different person, but I really remember it much more interesting.

 

I completely agree with BurningHamster when he says that their product seems confused as to what kind of people to target. Their storylines seems like a weird puddle of all sorts of different things that does not mix well together imo. I mean, what's up with the extremely lame storylines like "Edge and The Big Show are in love with no-talented and annoying Vickie Guerrero"? Yes, she lost her husband not too many years ago. And yes, he was a great wrestler. But let's agree to move on now, shall we? She's not worth any spotlight.

 

And the Triple H vs. Randy Orton feud is the exact same feud I noticed when I last watched some WWE on a semi-regular basis for a few months, only Randy was face and Triple H was heel. And that was in 2005 or so. Sure, the whole Legacy thing spices it up a bit, but from what I've seen it's not that big a deal - and it's pretty much the same as Evolution was back then.

 

And really, that's not the only thing about WWE that seems unchanged in 4 years. Apart from Eddie Guerrero and Chris Benoit (who are both gone for obvious reasons), the main event scene appears to be exactly the same as back then. I haven't noticed a single fresh inclusion above "upper midcard" status. It's so stale I cannot even begin to find words.

 

The promos aren't interesting anymore and way too often seems to be scripted to set up some stupid, cheap comical moment. And how come that a company as large as the WWE, with plenty of wrestlers, find a need to put Vince and/or Shane McMahon in every God damn main event on RAW?

 

I miss the mid 90's...

[CQI13]

When Pat Patterson, Briscoe, and the Mean Street Posse would deliver the highest rated segment ever? I know Patterson & Briscoe were involved, not sure if MSP was.

[The Two]

Speaking of Jim Cornette, Lance Storm does a great impression of him. If you care to listen, Storm did a 40+ minute interview with wrestlecrap radio. Great interview overall, but the Jim Cornette stories are a lot of fun to listen to.

 

http://wrestlecrap.libsyn.com/index.php?post_id=422732

Everybody in the wrestling business can do Jim Cornette. Lance's is pretty good though.

 

 

When Pat Patterson, Briscoe, and the Mean Street Posse would deliver the highest rated segment ever? I know Patterson & Briscoe were involved, not sure if MSP was.

 

No, you were right. It was a tag match between Patterson & Briscoe vs the Mean Street Posse from a Raw in April or May 1999. I believe it was also "Loser Leaves the WWF Forever." MSP lost, but in classic wrestling fashion "forever" amounted to a couple of months.

 

I'm pretty sure I still have that show on video somewhere at home. From memory the card also featured such titanic battles as Paul Bearer vs Big Show, Debra vs Sable in an Evening Gown Match, Farooq vs Bradshaw, Shamrock vs Chyna, Cactus Jack vs Mideon & Viscera, and the main event was Austin, Rock & Vince vs Taker, HHH, and Shane with HBK as the special referee.

 

How sad is it that I remember all that? I miss 1999.

 

 

Man, I saw this a few days ago and meant to post it, but... Yeah. Something shiny distracted me. Damned magpie DNA.

 

Very interesting read. While on one hand I agree with everything he says, on the other I don't. Personally I think College educated writers ARE the way to go in order to make WWE/TNA, as TV shows, become modern and relevant forms of entertainment. However, the old-school basics still apply at a core level, and if WWE/TNA are neglecting those lessons then it's probably a mistake.

 

I'd go for the middle ground. Half Cornette approach. Half Steph approach.

 

I can see the argument for using TV people to get original story ideas, but it should all be filtered through wrestling people. And for those TV guys, being a wrestling fan should not be a black mark.

 

The internet doesn't know everything it thinks it does. There are millions of internet fans who think they could book shows better than the current lot, and while a handful probably could, most would be unable to balance the realities of the business with their own workrate fetish. That being said, it isn't a bad thing to care that much, and to want to see things done well. Being a smark should not be a bad thing in and of itself, it should be a good starting point from which to teach somebody how to book.

 

Where is that CM Punk today? He doesn't exist, because he doesn't get to cut promos; he has to read off of a script handed to him by a Hollywood reject who's never wrestled a match or cut a promo in his life. And even I, someone who was a HUGE Punk supporter during his ROH days, and bought quite a few $20 DVDs with Punk as a featured performer, would not pay a dime to watch him headline a PPV. His WWE character has no personality that I can discern. I think they've mentioned he is Straight Edge once or twice, but that's about it.

I believe he's also "addicted to competition". But yeah, as a face he has no gimmick. I would like to see a heel Punk in WWE. I think there could be money in a heel Punk feuding with Jeff Hardy in a recreation of his indy feud with Raven. The druggie vs the straight edge.

 

 

One last thing, everybody agrees that guys should be made to learn how to cut real promos, not repeat scripted monologues, but why isn't that done at FCW. Do they actually have teachers down there? Wouldn't that be a good use for veterans and HoF types? Send them down there in Vince's dime to teach the young guys the real skills of the business.

 

And for the guys already on the roster, unscripted taped backstage promos. That way if they screw up you can have another (dozen) goes without humiliating yourself on TV until you get it right.

[gonvick]

Cornette makes a good point here. Writers, while useful in some ways, are not going to be as effective as the driving force behind a wrestling promotion. Wrestlers aren't trained actors, trying to force them into a rigid scripted performance isn't going to work well in most cases. If they have the freedom to perform in way that's more comfortable for them, it generally comes across better, at least for those with some talent in that area. And leads to more individual and memorable characters.

 

Writers could still be useful to have on the team, but like any other show, it then becomes an issue of how talented the writers are. Perhaps if really good writers were being hired, some of these problems wouldn't really be an issue.

 

Just a couple of days ago, I popped in ROH's Death Before Dishonor III, and watched a classic promo from CM Punk. At the start of the promo, the fans loved him; he had just won the ROH World title for the first time, amidst news that he was on the verge of signing with WWE. But by the end of the promo, they HATED him, and couldn't wait for someone to come down and kick his ass. He did such a good job of manipulating the crowd, tying all of his actions for over a year together into one of the best heel turns I've ever seen.

 

I actually thought that was one of the worst heel turns I've seen. It's been a long time since I've watched it, but as I recall, the basic gist of the promo seemed to be "You all thought I was a good guy, but really I'm evil. Hahaha, I fooled you."

 

There was really no explanation as to how pretending to be a good guy for all those months was a necessary step in his plan to eventually become champion. To me it just came across as a turn for the sake of turning, and he was just doing his best to sell it, but didn't have anything to work with.

 

At least, that's how I remember it.

[Chuck]

One last thing, everybody agrees that guys should be made to learn how to cut real promos, not repeat scripted monologues, but why isn't that done at FCW. Do they actually have teachers down there? Wouldn't that be a good use for veterans and HoF types? .

 

They have Dusty Rhodes, Steve Keirn, Norman Smiley and Billy Kidman down there... pretty good mix of guys... Dusty's main job is to teach kids how to cut promos the old school way.