The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[kingjames]

Eva Marie is...an odd case for me.

 

Personally, and I seem to be in the majority for this, her in-ring performance lacks fluidity. It's the difference between someone performing a (What a!) maneuver in the ring, and someone actively trying to perform a maneuver in the ring. I don't think she's hurt anyone through her sloppiness, which for me is an even greater sin than just sloppiness.

 

Wrestling is in a really weird place, in terms of faces and heels. I mean, there are definitely cases of faces who have gained the ire, usually through over-exposure/staleness/poor booking, of at least segments of the fandom to the point where they get booed no matter who they're facing. And then you've got heels who are going to get cheered because they have high levels of technical skills, really great charisma, or both, which segments of the audience will cheer no matter what they say or do.

 

Kevin Owens is one for me. In terms of his character, he's pretty thoroughly despicable. He's an arrogant blowhard who justifies his complete lack of scruples by invoking his children. He's needlessly rude, acts like he's better than everyone else - though there's an argument to be made that it's overcompensating for an inferiority complex - and he's a hypocrite. But he's really, REALLY good at getting that character across. He's able to do things we don't expect from people of his size and body type. He seems to be able to tell good stories in the ring with just about anybody. And we know the man, Kevin Steen, has been working his whole adult life and not given up despite having been overlooked because of his non-traditional body type.

 

So Owens gets pops. He gets legitimately excited, happy to see you, we want you to win face pops. He doesn't get it from all of the audience, but he gets it from a sizeable part. And unless he's fighting someone who this segment likes just as much, like Sami Zayn, the face/heel alignment gets totally thrown out of whack. Because we're operating in the post-kayfabe era, Kevin Owens gets cheered by a subset of the audience in almost all cases no matter what he does because he is "good at his job".

 

But as a heel, isn't getting people to hate you, to not cheer you, to want to see you lose and be humiliated, being "good at your job"? I think this one of the trickiest parts of telling stories in professional wrestling today. Now, Owens has shown he can still get those reactions because I really do think he is very good at his job - the worked shoot where he called NXT fans "the John Cena of wrestling fans" is, I think, an example of how to get legit heel heat in a post-kayfabe world.

 

But, how many smarks are going to boo Damian Sandow if he ever (he won't) gets a massive heel push? What could he possibly do, in character, that would overcome the "he's underused" (he is, though I suspect I might disagree with some to the extent), internet darling status? And what heel is going to not get at least an audible face pop for attacking John Cena? What could Cena ever do to not get that reaction? Cena could take a bullet for a child cancer patient, for real (I suppose "shoot" is super appropriate in this case), and when he came back you'd still have people telling him how much he sucks. You could bring these people to his death bed (unless his Wolverine healing factor means he cannot die) and they'd tell him to his face as he lay dying how much he sucks and chant "Let's go cancer!"

 

I guess in my rambling, I wonder if X-Pac Heat isn't one of the few sources of heat that we, as fans, have left bookers to work with? I mean, the "you can't wrestle, get off my screen" heat of Eva Marie is absolutely undoubtable. But if you get a crowd like NXT, who definitely lean smark heavy, and then you take someone who they feel is "undeserving" and only got anything because of their looks, not their talent or drive (which I think are both entirely, maybe easily arguable points with Eva Marie)? And then you consciously choose to book a story where it looks like she's getting opportunities she doesn't deserve for those reasons, particularly because representatives of the evil, anti-"good wrestling" corporate overlords are looking to bespoil the paradise of NXT with their crossover reality shows?

 

I think that's genius. I think it's not a story you can tell all that often (the Cornette rule of how long before you can run an angle again comes to mind) without, in reality, doing what you're kayfabe doing. But I think whether it "works" or not is entirely depending upon how you measure "works". Those NXT fans were legit LIVID that Eva Marie got a title shot. They went non-ironically ballistic about how that match had a main roster referee, screwjob in the back of their mind. Every time Eva Marie got a near-fall they were honestly terrified that she would win. And when Bayley put her away, they exalted in her triumph.

 

If the measure of professional wrestling is telling a story that engages people, then I think Eva Marie's NXT work became, in the context of the audience of NXT and though conscious choices made to exploit her X-Pac Heat and whatever talent she may possess, a success. I don't think you can work that same story with main roster talent quite as well. I don't know what you do with Eva Marie now. But on a single angle basis, I think NXT took what they had with Eva Marie and got a ton of mileage out of a worker with very limited skills. And I think that's brilliant booking. You can argue how much credit Eva Marie deserves for that brilliance, but I think it was the perfect way to use her.

[Rickymex]

You're joking right? I guess the extreme "YOU CANT WRESTLE" chants doesnt really make a point. No one wants her in the company. She cant wrestle. You sure you are watching the same channel?

 

John Cena himself get's "You Can't Wrestle" chants. That chant means nothing. Eva has been perfectly booked in NXT from her scaring the audience after elimination Asuka to her title match against Bayley. I was sour on her when she came to NXT but she has put in the work and the writers have made sure to put her in roles that take advantage of the Total Divas hate she has accumulated. She's not at the level of Becky Lynch or Sasha Banks but she's able to fill her role as a hate magnet.

[K-Nection]

Very well said kingjames

 

I think Eva Marie would have flourished in the Authority days being the female "face" of the authority. Seeing her wrestle Bayley I almost forgot she was bad because Bayley is so good. There is room for an occasional Eva Marie if they are enough good workers to cover for them. I mean look what happened with Nikki Bella....Nikki Bella was never extraordinary but had good opponents that made most of her matches at the least digestible.

 

Eva Marie will never...never...never be a "good" worker but if booked smartly she can get good mileage on the roster and even can screw a couple darlings along the way for some nuclear heat. The NXT booking team let her embrace being a heel and she seemed to have really good timing outside of the ropes.

 

If WWE uses her sparingly and books her with half of the genius that NXT did she could be on the roster for many years. I think if they just embrace that she is Vince's pet project and has immunity from being fired and getting some stolen victories every now and then she could be an epic heel.

[Big Roguey]

GCS Qualifiers getting announced on Twitter

 

Progress

Zack Sabre Jr vs Flash Morgan Webster

Pete Dunne vs Jack Gallagher

 

Evolve

Drew Gulak vs Tracy Williams

TJP vs Fred Yehi

[Russelrules44]

Totally unrelated to anything; but I'm listening to Sweet Adeline and I'm thinking to myself, Bray Wyatt would totally rock this song. Anyone else agree?

[kingjames]

Totally unrelated to anything; but I'm listening to Sweet Adeline and I'm thinking to myself, Bray Wyatt would totally rock this song. Anyone else agree?

 

Who's the artist on that track?

[Kitarzu]

I didn't know Wrestlemania was held in Florence... Sorry for the big picture.

 

http://www.tuttowrestling.com/public/TWaggiornator_upload/o1460672891firenze.jpg

[iruleall15]

Totally unrelated to anything; but I'm listening to Sweet Adeline and I'm thinking to myself, Bray Wyatt would totally rock this song. Anyone else agree?

 

The song from 1939? God no that was terrible for any entrance.

[Russelrules44]

Who's the artist on that track?

 

Hadyn Quartet.

 

And by rock, I mean actually sing it. Like what he used to do for some of his promos.

[Warhawk8492]

I really hope AJ Styles wins at Payback. Fans are really behind AJ Styles. He is one of there best merchandise sellers. He is someone both smarks and marks can agree is awesome. So why not push him? He can still go for now so why not put the title on him?

[lazorbeak]

With who is she over, other than the Southern region of Vince's body?

 

She has Nuclear go away heat, haven't seen anything like it since x-pac's last days. That's not "being over" with anyone.

 

Keep this under your hat, but "go away heat" is still "heat." When the crowd is loudly chanting at a worker, they are showing they care about that worker. Fans like hating things; see, for example, John Cena's reputation among men who go to ppv's. And considering her place on the card, I strongly doubt that anyone is actually giving up on the product because she's around.

 

That Bayley match she had in NXT was electric. Again, she's improved from dire to below-average, but it wouldn't make any sense to cut their losses since fans actually seem to have an opinion about her.

[milamber]

Tye Dillinger was great on NXT. The Perfect 10 gimmick is really clicking now and Nakamura played wonderfully off it in their match.

 

Balor is back to square one after not losing at Takeover and an interview with no hint of the recent heelish teases. Looks like Bulletproof Balor Club is off the cards for some time. Which leads me to believe that by SummerSlam a frustrated AJ Styles will recruit Gun & Gallows and form Styles Club to try to win the WWE title. Cocky Babyface Reigns vs Cool Heel Styles could work if booked right.

 

Smackdown was great again this week. It's an underrated show. Miz & Maryse are fun to watch. AJ vs Del Rio was good except when AJ's foot got stuck on an inverted suplex and he hit his head. Zayn vs Jericho with Ambrose and Owens joining commentary was pure gold. Barring a swerve with the booking, the Payback card is looking stronger than Wrestlemania.

[milamber]

Eva Marie has a good gimmick and she is learning but she's still at developmental level. I'd be surprised if she could even run the ropes properly. She rarely botches at least (although she did injure Carmella at a house show) but she's slow and workmanlike at best. In NXT they have booked her smartly and sparingly, playing off the smark heavy crowd. I can't see her working out on the main roster unless it's losing squash matches to talented babyfaces like Becky or in big tag matches to cover her weaknesses.

[K-Nection]

An interesting concept here Don Tony and Kevin think Roman Reigns and Eva Marie should team up.....

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjdJy0dYbLE

[Blackman]

but it wouldn't make any sense to cut their losses since fans actually seem to have an opinion about her.

 

But of course. Why doesn't she bring all her friends to WWE and let's have them be in-ring workers as well. I'm sure the fans will have an opinion on them too and will surely voice it. They'd have piles of "heat". Amazing idea to have her pair up with Reigns and bring their heat together. I'm not a seer, but it might be an enormously awesome move for them. Have them make out in the ring with Vince standing next to them with a mic saying "no chance" to the boos.

 

In all seriousness: your idea of heat does somewhat apply in a hot crowd like in NXT/ECW. It does however not apply in RAW crowds, and in both cases is not a positive thing whatsoever (though they do try to use the heat constructively).

 

Kingjames has the right of it in his post. But one wonders that - in NXT, with the roster bristling with underused talent - they would use her less in favor of the others. But if the amount of usage becomes a given (Vince's influence?) then they've done a masterful job using her. A battle royal is excellent for it, as she won't be stealing too much TV time. Right now, the Jersey girls they occasionally bring in seem fine but I honestly admit I'd care more for Bailey vs EvaMarie II than what transpired last week, even though the match would've been way worse. Yes, I somehow care about her more but she's been in my face for way longer. Now you're not even giving them the chance of constant exposure because EvaMarie is taking up time.

 

Maybe we just have to accept she's here to stay, and the bookers will have to deal with this creatively. In TEW, if I had a clause from my boss that she had to be used and couldn't get fired, I'd job her out to the new ones in (probably) mediocre matches. But she'd have some use. An additional clause of her not dropping below D-level pop would be a great gameplay challenge if ever there was one.

[LigerLiger]

With who is she over, other than the Southern region of Vince's body?

 

Right,I officialy laughed at that more than I should've.

[K-Nection]

Bray Wyatt has gotten injured in Milan Italy at a house show.....Why can't WWE keep anyone injury free?

[The Final Countdown]

Bray Wyatt has gotten injured in Milan Italy at a house show.....Why can't WWE keep anyone injury free?

Because they run their employ--err, independent contractors into the ground.

[milamber]

Vince doesn't want to lose money on an off-season.

[lazorbeak]

Bray Wyatt has gotten injured in Milan Italy at a house show.....Why can't WWE keep anyone injury free?

 

Back in my day, we didn't "take time off" just because we were "injured." We just developed a crippling pill addiction and mixed it with other drugs in social situations!

[K-Nection]

Vince doesn't want to lose money on an off-season.

 

Why not Japan does it and it works just fine? They can even throw up tapes of their house shows and include hype interviews to hype upcoming feuds or just the guys voicing over their thoughts on those house show matches. It keeps the product on TV and still lets the guys heal up. They can even run smaller venues for their Main Event and Superstars shows so the mid card guys get some mixture with NXT guys. There is smarter ways we can book this instead of driving in every person into the ground.

[lukess11]

Why not Japan does it and it works just fine? They can even throw up tapes of their house shows and include hype interviews to hype upcoming feuds or just the guys voicing over their thoughts on those house show matches. It keeps the product on TV and still lets the guys heal up. They can even run smaller venues for their Main Event and Superstars shows so the mid card guys get some mixture with NXT guys. There is smarter ways we can book this instead of driving in every person into the ground.

 

CHIKARA also has seasons and it does wonders for them.

[Blackman]

How about that RAW? Just amazing. Only negative I can come up with is the women being underused. Are they really going back to the time of the WWF Women's championship? Because in that time you also just had one match and one valet featured each show.

[K-Nection]

I keep hearing from dirt sheets that Shane is completely temporary and the Authority is coming back....groan. I can't wait for Stephanie to come back and demasculate all the main eventers again because that worked so well for the first 3 years!!!! And don't forget about the 30 minute promos where Triple H spouts off nonsense about how the locker room should obey him....blah. Just when I was enjoying RAW again and was contemplating watching full RAWs I might just stick to Hulu if that is really in the cards.

 

 

I just realized that I don't have to hear JBL spout off about Nikki Bella's longest reigning Diva's champ thing anymore! It was in bad taste anyway because they only did it to spite AJ and Punk. Since they are no longer going to be called Divas and he can sure as heck not claim she is the longest female champ. I won't have to groan every time I see her appear on my screen soon.

 

How about that RAW? Just amazing. Only negative I can come up with is the women being underused. Are they really going back to the time of the WWF Women's championship? Because in that time you also just had one match and one valet featured each show.

 

Nah they have 3 hour show to fill and they seem to be developing several fueds within the women's division (I'm so glad they 86'ed the Diva word). Emma has been mocking Becky Lynch probably to set up a PPV fued at Payback as well as Charolette vs. Nattie. You also have Lana and....Eva eww.

[milamber]

I keep hearing from dirt sheets that Shane is completely temporary and the Authority is coming back....groan. I can't wait for Stephanie to come back and demasculate all the main eventers again because that worked so well for the first 3 years!!!! And don't forget about the 30 minute promos where Triple H spouts off nonsense about how the locker room should obey him....blah. Just when I was enjoying RAW again and was contemplating watching full RAWs I might just stick to Hulu if that is really in the cards.

 

 

I just realized that I don't have to hear JBL spout off about Nikki Bella's longest reigning Diva's champ thing anymore! It was in bad taste anyway because they only did it to spite AJ and Punk. Since they are no longer going to be called Divas and he can sure as heck not claim she is the longest female champ. I won't have to groan every time I see her appear on my screen soon.

 

 

 

Nah they have 3 hour show to fill and they seem to be developing several fueds within the women's division (I'm so glad they 86'ed the Diva word). Emma has been mocking Becky Lynch probably to set up a PPV fued at Payback as well as Charolette vs. Nattie. You also have Lana and....Eva eww.

 

Don't expect the Authority back for a while. HHH won't be returning until the setup for his SummerSlam match.

 

You should watch Smackdown instead. It's more consistent than Raw and includes a few Raw recaps. Best of all it isn't 3 hours. Also check out Emma & Paige's NXT-style match on Main Event 2 weeks ago.