The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[Jaysin]

Tonight's Monday Night Raw was like the concept of pure contempt for the live audience came to life and was put in charge of booking the show.

 

I enjoyed the opening segment despite Brock fumbling through quite a lot of his lines. You have Paul Heyman and MVP, two of the best talkers in the company, and they let Brock and Lashley do the talking. Mind boggling decision. Bobby shows good intensity and Brock is having fun though so it wasn't all bad. The show just didn't hold my attention after that though. I made it to the Damien Priest match and fell asleep

[Matt_Black]

Basically, all the heels won their matches. Except the AJ Styles/ Austin Theory match, that ended in a DQ when the NXT guy attacked styles.

 

Furthermore, the main event sets up our SECOND heel vs heel championship match (3, depending on how you view Lesnar/ Lashley) at the Royal Rumble which, you might recall, is supposed to be one of the Big 4 of WWE.

 

I mean, I know Vince hates Philly, but MAN....

[Jaysin]

Basically, all the heels won their matches. Except the AJ Styles/ Austin Theory match, that ended in a DQ when the NXT guy attacked styles.

 

Furthermore, the main event sets up our SECOND heel vs heel championship match (3, depending on how you view Lesnar/ Lashley) at the Royal Rumble which, you might recall, is supposed to be one of the Big 4 of WWE.

 

I mean, I know Vince hates Philly, but MAN....

 

They were going against the college football National Championship, which is usually a ratings monster.

[CQI13]

I might benefit from just reading the results/reviews, but it didn't sound bad. I just don't have 3 hours a week to devote to it.

[Blackman]

I don't really follow WWE anymore but I watch some skits and pictures through social media. Now it was a photo settion with Mandy Rose, who is apparently the NXT women's champ now. It seems the 2.0 is more of a 0.7 in my book. If the 'rebrand' is made to prepare people fully for the "WWE" style, then why is someone with several years of experience the champ there? You have plenty of experienced workers in the staff there, and they can see 'good examples' if they turn on their tv.

 

The rebrand makes sense to me as we've seen quite a few 'bad transitions' from NXT to WWE, just because the premise is completely different. Quite on the contrary, some NXT failures, like Elias, were very succesful in WWE. This should close the gap more.

 

I guess the 'indy' part of their programming now falls to NXT-UK or 205, though I must admit I've never watched any of that, even when I had the Network.

[crownsy]

I don't really follow WWE anymore but I watch some skits and pictures through social media. Now it was a photo settion with Mandy Rose, who is apparently the NXT women's champ now. It seems the 2.0 is more of a 0.7 in my book. If the 'rebrand' is made to prepare people fully for the "WWE" style, then why is someone with several years of experience the champ there? You have plenty of experienced workers in the staff there, and they can see 'good examples' if they turn on their tv.

 

The rebrand makes sense to me as we've seen quite a few 'bad transitions' from NXT to WWE, just because the premise is completely different. Quite on the contrary, some NXT failures, like Elias, were very succesful in WWE. This should close the gap more.

 

I guess the 'indy' part of their programming now falls to NXT-UK or 205, though I must admit I've never watched any of that, even when I had the Network.

 

I enjoyed how this week we had like 3 separate "doesn't Mandy look hot in a bikini pally!" segments straight from the minds of Pritchard and Vince.

 

Yes, yes she does. Do you guys realize it isn't the 90's and I can see her Instagram anytime I want? or if I'm that hard up for a women in sexy clothes, the internet provides.

 

It really feels like they think that's still a big draw for the like 12-25 or so demo, like when we used to have to wait for 20 minutes on dialup to see a naked women in the IRC days.

 

I like Mandy btw, I just think it's funny we're going all in on "man pally! you can't see this kinda SKIN anywhere else! puppies!" version of NXT.

[CQI13]

WWIndie largely failed on TV - well before Vince and Prichard stuck their hand in. It's a niche product. Had it remained on the Network I don't think we would have seen the change.

[crownsy]

WWIndie largely failed on TV - well before Vince and Prichard stuck their hand in. It's a niche product. Had it remained on the Network I don't think we would have seen the change.

 

Right, the problem isn't the direction change, that's there right.

 

The problem is it's on national TV when it's the quality of a indy show in front of 100 people.

[CQI13]

WWIndie was when they moved to USA, even before their current iteration - the one with all the indie darlings. Enjoyable, but not to the masses. This needed to stay on the Network, but can understand the business decision (even if it is wrong in my opinion).

 

They started off hot, and then dropped off. They have been hovering in that mid 600s range for a while, even after the switch. That's really the only metric for it.

 

If they were going to put it on USA they should have done it like the debut on the Network (probably the best era, even if not the best wrestling) - cycle main roster guys for feuds with NXT guys. They are going back to that now, provided they send someone down since AJ is done with Waller.

 

WWE fans aren't NXT fans. It's a really weird dynamic.

[Self]

The previous NXT could have been fine on television. Not in the position it was put in, with all of those pressures and expectations, but I feel there had to be a nice middle ground somewhere between being a Network exclusive and Prime Time on the USA Network.

 

As it was, it failed as competition to AEW, and largely failed as a developmental program building people for the WWE main roster. Vince was never interested in Cole/O'Reilly/Gargano/Ciampa/Dunne and the other little guys.

[Lex Star]

NXT would have been fine if they didn't try to go Head to Head against Dynamite. Classic WWE ego thinking their C-Show could take on the #2 Company's flagship program.

 

They got embarrassed and are now overcorrecting.

 

I will say I am digging Bron Breakker though.

[Blackman]

In theory the 'old' NXT, who provided a product similar to the indies, was so good at times imo that it could effectively compete with a rival product (by which I mean get similar ratings). Then again, I never saw a Dynamite show in full so... But I can't imagine it being leagues better.

 

You must also take into account that few effectively watch NXT live. Sometimes I skip a month and binge the episodes when I had time and I was in the mood. I doubt ratings took that into account.

 

Obviously a mini-WWE that NXT2.0 would be now would never compete with AEW's main show as you're doing the same thing, only worse. Bringing in Mandy Rose as a... 'draw' does little when you're up against Jericho, Cody, etc. So I hope for their sake they switched the slot by now.

 

Now I can't speak at all for a wrestler but is there something wrong with just spending your career at NXT and have the occasional Rumble participation or dark match at 'Mania? I cringed every time I heard Gargano talk about his ascent to the main programming like it was some utopia. It was never gonna work. It worked for Danielson but they practically made a gimmick out of it, plus he takes well to several roles.

[crownsy]

 

Now I can't speak at all for a wrestler but is there something wrong with just spending your career at NXT and have the occasional Rumble participation or dark match at 'Mania? I cringed every time I heard Gargano talk about his ascent to the main programming like it was some utopia. It was never gonna work. It worked for Danielson but they practically made a gimmick out of it, plus he takes well to several roles.

 

yea, money. Main roster deals, even in NXT's hayday, pay a ton more.

[CQI13]

In theory the 'old' NXT, who provided a product similar to the indies, was so good at times imo that it could effectively compete with a rival product (by which I mean get similar ratings). Then again, I never saw a Dynamite show in full so... But I can't imagine it being leagues better.

 

You must also take into account that few effectively watch NXT live. Sometimes I skip a month and binge the episodes when I had time and I was in the mood. I doubt ratings took that into account.

 

Obviously a mini-WWE that NXT2.0 would be now would never compete with AEW's main show as you're doing the same thing, only worse. Bringing in Mandy Rose as a... 'draw' does little when you're up against Jericho, Cody, etc. So I hope for their sake they switched the slot by now.

 

Now I can't speak at all for a wrestler but is there something wrong with just spending your career at NXT and have the occasional Rumble participation or dark match at 'Mania? I cringed every time I heard Gargano talk about his ascent to the main programming like it was some utopia. It was never gonna work. It worked for Danielson but they practically made a gimmick out of it, plus he takes well to several roles.

 

I don't disagree, in theory. But I really think NXT fans are a vocal minority of WWE fans. Even on USA they never completed with Raw - despite fans complaining that Raw is too long and NXT at the time having a superior in-ring product.

 

The ratings I can't disagree with - especially how they don't reflect streaming, delay streaming, binging, etc. I think we are a few years away from the Nielsen ratings going away, so for now, that's what they will continue to look at, unless a company publishes their 'most watched' and the industry cared about it.

 

I think they see that the ratings are what they are, plus or minus the margin of error, so NXT 2.0 is more about advancing the vision than it is about beating AEW. Triple H should have never said anything about it in that HOF speech, but way too late for that.

 

They see value in Mandy, and it could be a situation when her two stablemates are "ready" they wl get moved as a group - instead of Morgan/Riott/Logan showing up cold. If they go that route they can send someone else down after.

 

And the one drawback to just wanting to stay in NXT is that if the philosophy changes you are surplus to requirements. All those folks will land somewhere, no doubt (most have). You do also have to weigh the pros and cons - stay in NXT or be Tozawa?

 

I enjoy their weekend events - I can make time for those. But the rest of their stuff just gets lumped in with "I have more important things to do." Then again, when I was younger (their intended audience again) I was all about it. I still use Peacock for movies and EPL while they have that, so WWE is a bonus. But if EPL goes away I might too.

[GooverDan]

I think I'm actually done with WWE for the foreseeable future. Messing up WALTER to that scale is just crossing the last line for me, I'm just not going to watch the product again until Bruce Prichard steps down as the head booker or gets fired. I'm just so tired for dealing with their BS.

 

I know that I sound like the typical mark who claims to hate the product but watches the next RAW or SmackDown, but WALTER is my favourite wrestler right now, and seeing him getting destroyed like that, it broke me. I'm so tired of WWE. I'll stick with other promotions for the time being, they will not kill my interest for professional wrestling, no matter how hard they'll try.

[Matt_Black]

Of all the ways they could have ended the Royal Rumble go-home edition of Monday Night RAW, that... was certainly one of them.

[Jaysin]

Sierra Hotel India Echo Lima Delta

[Jaysin]

Far from a perfect show, but I was entertained by almost the whole show.

 

Beth/Edge vs Miz/Maryse was far more fun than it had any right to be.

 

Also, I can't wait until Miz gets inducted into the HoF just to see how mad so many people are gonna get

[Mootinie]

Miz is great, Miz has always been great. I love that he still lives rent free in CM Punk's head 11 years after he main evented that WrestleMania.

[Jaysin]

Miz is great, Miz has always been great. I love that he still lives rent free in CM Punk's head 11 years after he main evented that WrestleMania.

 

Oh I'm a diehard MizFit and have been for a very, very long time. My friends hassle me for loving him, but Miz is one of the best heels in the industry's history. Everything he does is calculated to make you hate him. He's not concerned with playing the cool guy heel, he is an insufferable jerk and it's glorious. It's refreshing

[jgriff3029]

This was the first wrestling show I have watched more than 5 minutes of in probably 12 years. Just got Peacock and am in quarantine atm the moment so I figured why not. I have to say it kept me entertained. I liked not having any knowledge about most of the wrestlers. i have to say that skinny guy that teams with Orton and rides the scooter looks like a dweeb but can do some pretty impressive stuff.

[CQI13]

This was the first wrestling show I have watched more than 5 minutes of in probably 12 years. Just got Peacock and am in quarantine atm the moment so I figured why not. I have to say it kept me entertained. I liked not having any knowledge about most of the wrestlers. i have to say that skinny guy that teams with Orton and rides the scooter looks like a dweeb but can do some pretty impressive stuff.

 

Riddle is incredible!

 

Very entertaining show, but hate mixed tag matches. No way Miz should be taking moves from Beth, but whatever.

 

Seth is awesome. So much so that even when he is antagonizing the other heel they cheer. Actually felt like he had a chance. No way Ronda wasn't winning when she came out. Hopefully Becky at WM (with a Ronda win) and then build it to where Becky is the first one to beat Ronda 1 vs 1. And Lesnar winning the RR made perfect sense to me after the result earlier. No way he gets punked twice on one night. And if we treat it as real, this is the only way he can guarantee a title match against either Reigns or Lashley. We know he's going after Reigns, but it does build the intrigue with Lashley holding the win. No issue with predictable when things make sense.

[jgriff3029]

One thing I noticed during the Rumble (after not seeing a show for 10+ years) is that the announcers talked about past workers a lot more. Even mentioning Dean Ambrose, something that would not of happened years ago. Have they been doing this for a while or is it something new?

[Jaysin]

One thing I noticed during the Rumble (after not seeing a show for 10+ years) is that the announcers talked about past workers a lot more. Even mentioning Dean Ambrose, something that would not of happened years ago. Have they been doing this for a while or is it something new?

 

Rollins name dropped Mox on Smackdown recently and Pat McAfee has been doing it ever since too.

[Matt_Black]

One thing I noticed during the Rumble (after not seeing a show for 10+ years) is that the announcers talked about past workers a lot more. Even mentioning Dean Ambrose, something that would not of happened years ago. Have they been doing this for a while or is it something new?

 

It depends. They've also been mentioning other companies a lot more, with the Viking Raiders referencing their history in ROH and NJPW.

 

As for tonight, why on Earth do they keep giving Ronda a mic? Especially when, at this point, she's going to be going up against either Charlotte or Becky, who will just run miles around her when it comes to promos.