The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[jbergey_2005]

Kids, Teenage Girls, and Families atm IMO. Remember guys, this is my OPINION , not a fact! Stop making arguments about facts and opinions! It drives me nuts! Can't we be in peace?

 

This would certainly explain all the half naked divas running around:)

[The Final Countdown]

Rey is trying to get a shot at Undertaker's belt, just like Batista is. That's enough reason, I think.

I suppose it is, but it comes across as a pretty cowardly move to me, which obviously doesn't describe Undertaker's character most of the time.

[Tha Black Phenom]

I see it as the Deadman marking his territory. You gunnin' for my title, you're steppin' in my yard, thus you'll face the music

[Hyde Hill]

OMG its a tweener!! lolz. Seriously has been a while to have a true one not simply one doing a slow turn. Works for "the Deadman" being an equal opportunity ass kicker if you want my belt.

[djthefunkchris]

It's an Internet forum. It's unlikely

 

I don't think there's a conscious effort to target teenage girls in terms of the action or characters (most likely there'd be a Twilight-esque chiselled cheekbone guy if there was). That said, it's obvious that a lot of young girls/women do fancy Cena, Kofi or whoever, so that's welcome.

 

But yeah: Kids and families, definitely. The young adult demographic is no longer a key one for them, I would say.

 

I'd agree with this. I don't think the "Porky's" Crowd are what they are after at this time. If you were around when "Porky's" come out, you will remember that even Siskel and Ebert gave it a thumbs up with the reason being that every summer needs the juvenile hit movie, and it was alot of fun to watch, although not their normal cup of tea.

 

That being said, I don't think they want to Alienate the young adult demograph either. The most honest thing I can tell you is that when I even mention that they went to PG, no one I know that watch's wrestling (which is quite a few) noticed it at all. The only people that seem to notice it to me are people on the internet, and as far as me personally knowing (or as much as anyone can know people over the internet), the GDS Forums and other wrestling forums. People that aren't actually talking about wrestling on the internet don't seem to notice any difference at all. "Really, they haven't had any blood? I didn't notice." Or "What were they before they went PG?"

 

So yeah, I love these forums, but to me it sounds like everyone here seems to believe that it's common knowledge to know things such as this, and yet that doesn't seem to be the case.

 

From that I conclude as objectionally as possible, that they have tried not to make drastic changes, but only changed a word here and there, and of course the lack of blood and "Diva" type match/contests that wouldn't be suitable in a PG environment. Family friendly, definately. Alienating anyone intentionally, doubtfull. Unless they are trying to alienate the internet fans.

[Hyde Hill]

Aye the good old "groupthink" occurrence which is true for the IWC both negative and positive. Still knowing more or thinking you know more is not a bad thing as long as one is capable to look at it from a layman's perspective once in a while.

 

Still I love this board as any other wrestling discussion/comment place I come across has at least 1 in 3 WWE/TNA/ROH ZuCk3 becauz youz a ..... type comments.

[djthefunkchris]

Aye the good old "groupthink" occurrence which is true for the IWC both negative and positive. Still knowing more or thinking you know more is not a bad thing as long as one is capable to look at it from a layman's perspective once in a while.

 

Still I love this board as any other wrestling discussion/comment place I come across has at least 1 in 3 WWE/TNA/ROH ZuCk3 becauz youz a ..... type comments.

 

/nod. I like the fact that most of the people that post here can actually step back and look at things objectionally, even if they hate/love different promotions etc. Their are die-hard TNA Fans that can contribute greatly in any thread topic about either WWE/ROH/TNA without throwing out negative's and subjectional viewpoints as fact. We have the opposing as well, to be totally honest, but the balance is definately in favor of more objectional viewpoints for the most part.

 

Like the posts about WWE being "The Best" in what they do. The poster doesn't really like them the most, or like what they do the most. They are just putting forth that the success comes straight from making more poeple happy then other's with what they do. WWE didn't start as THE top dog, it took a very long time coming from WWWF to WWF and the current WWE. You can go back even farther to "The Gold Dust Trio" promotion, in which WWWF was molded from the start (as Toots Mondt founded that promotion, then teamed with Vince Sr. to make the WWWF).

 

As an older fan of wrestling period, I might not be as impressed by the spotfests, or the "actual wrestling" as much as some of the younger guys, but I can appreciate where they are coming from. Something that I wish other's could do as well.

 

WWE is like "Bubblegum" music, kind of. That's what they have transfered into, bassically, they are the "Menudo" of wrestling. That being said, we all know they are capable of being a more "gritty" type of promotion when needed as well. So their flexability makes them less affected by changes of the industry, and more durable then your average promotion if pushed.

 

Everyone want's better, and that will always be the case. Even in the highest points of wrestling, as we look back at the "Good 'ole days" no matter the time frame anyone thinks that is, and you should be able to remember all the critique's of the time as well... Be it by internet, magazines, or just talking with friends. Wrestling has always been under the microscope in that respect for as long as I can remember. A really quick google on the history reveals that it was under a microscope between the 1890's and 1920's moreso then any other point in history (not counting current). There is going to be kids between ages 10 and 16 that will be telling stories of this time period 10 years from now, as this will be their "favorite" time. Something that is also lost when talking in these forums... the fact that although you may find lots that "hate" this time, there are actually ton's of people that are loving it (as ratings show).

[BuddyGarner]

It means that the WWE has consistently produced a product that more people across a wider variety of audience types are interested in spending their money on for a longer period of time than any other promotion in history.

 

If that doesn't mean 'better' to you ..so be it.

 

But they are the most successful at doing the most important thing in their industry.

 

Everything else is totally subjective.

 

EDIT: to be clear, I'm not saying that I enjoy everything the WWE does or that indy companies aren't entertaining, but it's sort of a joke to see net fans whine about how th WWe doesn't know what they're doing or how to develop talent when they're making so much f'n money in an industry where making money is really the only thing that counts.

 

The WWE has not produced a product that entertains compared to regular TV shows which are way more popular. WWE doesn't know what they're doing compared to normal TV. Part of it is that live entertainment is usually more repetitive than scripted(how often does JR say the same thing during announcing? How often do Kurt Angle, Shawn Michaels, Chris Benoit, or Eddie Guerrero use the same spots when wrestling?). Who's Line is it Anyways is repetitive too.

 

WWE doesn't compare favorably to sports. The announcers in MMA and Boxing tell it like it is in terms of the athletes involved plus their are less frequent events so their is less repetitive commentary. And, these sports usually have better psychology despite the occasional anti-climactic finish(which happens a lot in wreslting too). Plus, boxing and MMA have better storylines too.

[djthefunkchris]

Top USA Network shows for the week ending January 3, 2009:

 

Rank Shows NET DAY(S) Time Viewers Live+SD (000)2

1 WWE ENTERTAINMENT USA Mon 10:00P-11:08P 5,608

1 WWE ENTERTAINMENT USA Mon 09:00P-10:00P 5,337

3 NCIS USA Sat 10:00P-11:00P 4,992

4 NCIS USA Sat 08:00P-09:00P 4,956

5 NCIS USA Sat 03:00P-04:00P 4,892

6 NCIS USA Sat 05:00P-06:00P 4,781

7 NCIS USA Sat 09:00P-10:00P 4,699

8 NCIS USA Sat 04:00P-05:00P 4,607

9 NCIS USA Mon 08:00P-09:00P 4,535

[infinitywpi]

Got back from the Smackdown show in Fargo -- bit of a letdown; no Undertaker, no Punk, no Cryme Tyme. On the other hand, Morrison/McIntyre was pretty good, Y2J/Hardy was as good as you'd expect, and I began to realize why R-Truth was a champion waaaay back when in TNA.

 

Oh, also, Mickie James? Far more flexible than I expected.

 

Goldust? Far more over than I expected.

 

Drunken college kids behind us? Faaaaaaaaar more annoying than expected.

[Bigpapa42]

I suppose it is, but it comes across as a pretty cowardly move to me, which obviously doesn't describe Undertaker's character most of the time.

 

Its the "mind games" approach they've used with Taker for awhile. Pretty sure he did the same thing a few times in his feud with CM Punk.

[The Shape]

Best ever undertaker mind games was the feud with orton when he possessed josh matthews

 

OMG its a tweener!! lolz. Seriously has been a while to have a true one not simply one doing a slow turn. Works for "the Deadman" being an equal opportunity ass kicker if you want my belt.

 

You're forgetting beth phoenix seriously right now with just four people smackdown's women's division ain't half bad, they get about 10 mins of every show and are actually building up an angle that makes sense.

[MrCanada]

More Releases

 

Late last night word of a handful of WWE developmental releases were officially announced (some were assumed earlier). That brings the new count of recent releases since the beggining of January to:

* Shane McMahon

* Tommy Dreamer

* Gabriel (Steve Lewington)

* Sweet Papi Sanchez (Black Pain / Jose Torres)

* Dino Carter (real name Rashad Goff)

* Chris the Bambikiller (Christoph Herzog)

* Lennox McEnroe (Bryan Wilcott)

* Lift Swayner (Aaron Reed)

* Leroy Morgan (Max McGuirk)

* Dylan Klein (John Elliot / Johnny Riggs: Apparentely requested his release, I read somewhere it had to do with family stuff)

 

 

- And all the other news sites seems to report what I did yesterday, that Richie Steamboat has officially reported to FCW.

 

- I also just discovered that Jim Duggan's peformers contract with WWE officially expired in 2009. He still has a legend deal and could see him easily coming back should WWE want him.

 

-----------

 

I have to admit I'm kind of shocked at some of those releases.

 

Rashard Goff is a former colligiate wrestler (thats a plus) and is a big 285, so he's up with Lesnar & Hager in size, and he was only down in development since maybe late summer, or fall. I doubt he could be progressing THAT slowly to get released, so possibly it was a dedication thing.

 

Dylan Klein showed a lot of promise, but obviously it seems he was prompted to leave for his "real" life. Shame, hope its temporary, but then again, who's seen Monty Brown since he left for family reasons?

 

Lennox McEnroe was getting good reviews from fans, from what I read. And it actually a wrestler with independent experiance, despite probably not being known by many people. He portrayed a pretty cool Mordecai-esque gimmick on the indies. I'm sure he'll keep working local stuff, but I dont see him doing the ROH/TNA think.

 

Lift Sawyer, is a shame only because his name. Like Goff though, he's only been down in FCW for less then 6 months I'd say. However he doenst have the wrestling background Goff had, so this makes sense. I also didnt read anything thrilling about him online, and from all I can tell, he didnt wrestle all that much anyway.

 

Leroy Morgan, like Lift, didnt wrestle all that much. However he had apparentley migrated to the announce booth along with Derrick Batemen as the play-by-play man to Bateman's colour commentary. So I'm assuming his in-ring stuff was pretty bad. But now who's going to announce FCW? Dusty & Bateman?

 

Bambikiller. Kind of saw that happening a while ago as he dissappeared from FCW and was back in Germany for over a month, maybe too. Kind of shame. Big guy with a good look and indy experiance. Even a tour or two (or more) of NOAH under his belt. I'm sure he'll keep trucking in Europe & Japan and I expect we'll hear from him again. Increased exposure could see NOAH come knocking again soon.

[PeterHilton]

Can you please tell me how I have no idea what I'm talking about because you just saying that isn't really meaning nothing show how you think i dont no what im talking about what i said is how i feel about wwe and is why i currently dont watch it because of lack of good things on the show. So please tell me what you meant with me not knowing what im talking about.

 

You know, to be polite I was going to respond to this, but then I read Stennick's reply on the bottom of page 42 and Mr Canada's after you posted this and they did a wonderful job explaining my point. So go read that and then get back to me if you still feel like the point fell flat.

[PeterHilton]

The WWE has not produced a product that entertains compared to regular TV shows which are way more popular. WWE doesn't know what they're doing compared to normal TV. Part of it is that live entertainment is usually more repetitive than scripted(how often does JR say the same thing during announcing? How often do Kurt Angle, Shawn Michaels, Chris Benoit, or Eddie Guerrero use the same spots when wrestling?). Who's Line is it Anyways is repetitive too.

 

I think chris answered this

 

WWE doesn't compare favorably to sports. The announcers in MMA and Boxing tell it like it is in terms of the athletes involved plus their are less frequent events so their is less repetitive commentary. And, these sports usually have better psychology despite the occasional anti-climactic finish(which happens a lot in wreslting too). Plus, boxing and MMA have better storylines too.

 

WWE isn't a sport.

[MrCanada]

I think chris answered this

 

 

 

WWE isn't a sport.

 

Its sports entertainment!

[PeterHilton]

Its sports entertainment!

 

LOL..true.

 

I think the only thing that you can fairly compare the WWE to in terms of storytelling is daytime soap operas: continuous and ever-evolving characters, programs and storylines that never really end, but there are still episodes with cliffhangers leading to (hopefully) climactic resolutions...

 

If you watch soaps, they even 'put over' their young stars by having them work with established characters and will 'push' certain characters by portraying them in a way that would make the viewer want to root for or against them more.

[MrCanada]

am I the only one terrified by the fact Big E Langston is perfectly symmetrical?

 

ORIGINAL

http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr2/wilhelmce/big_e_langston.jpg

 

SYMMETRY?

http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr2/wilhelmce/mirrorman.jpg

[Remianen]

It means that the WWE has consistently produced a product that more people across a wider variety of audience types are interested in spending their money on for a longer period of time than any other promotion in history.

 

If that doesn't mean 'better' to you ..so be it.

 

But they are the most successful at doing the most important thing in their industry.

 

Everything else is totally subjective.

 

Generally speaking, this might be correct. But there are problems that come with this. Just ask General Motors and Ford. When you're that big, it's hard to be nimble and responsiveness is extremely important in the entertainment field.

 

But jwt does have a point (even if he doesn't explain it properly). There is a lot of value in reaching 'institution' level. Embodying a product or industry and/or defining an industry or function has definite value. From 'Kleenex' to 'Kotex' to 'Google', it's clear that's true. That's where the whole 'brand management' side of marketing comes in and earns its keep. When people think 'pro wrestling', they think of ONE company and when the tide is high, that can drive your bottom line. (Conversely, when the tide is low, it can have a negative impact as we see every time some wrestler or personality associated with the industry dies).

 

Isn't making money the primary goal of almost every industry?

 

I just cannot equate most popular to best. Sometimes it does, but there are so many factors. Look at the film industry - what are generally seen as the "best" films each year - the ones that do the most bank at the box office or the ones who earn the accolades and awards?

 

Good point. I think most people can see that. Is Windows the best operating system? Only if you don't know any better (and let's face it, most people don't). It's the most popular and has become the OS equivalent of an institution, so the point becomes moot (you don't have much of a choice in the matter, for the most part). Same can be said for Internet Explorer vs Firefox.

 

From a corporate standpoint, WWE is better (though I wish their P&E was better). From a consumer standpoint (which is the very definition of personal opinion), nah. I think I've given away or turned down more tickets to WWE events than most people ever see (even traded Royal Rumble tickets for Gospelfest ). I'm not really a fan of them (more of a casual observer, given their institutional position) but then, I'm not a fan of Kim Kardashian either but there are obviously folks out there who are. Fast food chains don't pay people a couple million to feature in their commercials if no one cares about them. How many people here are avid 'Jersey Shore' viewers? Must be a few fans somewhere if their cast members are being offered a hundred grand to hang out at a club for one night.

[djthefunkchris]

Generally speaking, this might be correct. But there are problems that come with this. Just ask General Motors and Ford. When you're that big, it's hard to be nimble and responsiveness is extremely important in the entertainment field.

 

But jwt does have a point (even if he doesn't explain it properly). There is a lot of value in reaching 'institution' level. Embodying a product or industry and/or defining an industry or function has definite value. From 'Kleenex' to 'Kotex' to 'Google', it's clear that's true. That's where the whole 'brand management' side of marketing comes in and earns its keep. When people think 'pro wrestling', they think of ONE company and when the tide is high, that can drive your bottom line. (Conversely, when the tide is low, it can have a negative impact as we see every time some wrestler or personality associated with the industry dies).

 

 

 

Good point. I think most people can see that. Is Windows the best operating system? Only if you don't know any better (and let's face it, most people don't). It's the most popular and has become the OS equivalent of an institution, so the point becomes moot (you don't have much of a choice in the matter, for the most part). Same can be said for Internet Explorer vs Firefox.

 

From a corporate standpoint, WWE is better (though I wish their P&E was better). From a consumer standpoint (which is the very definition of personal opinion), nah. I think I've given away or turned down more tickets to WWE events than most people ever see (even traded Royal Rumble tickets for Gospelfest ). I'm not really a fan of them (more of a casual observer, given their institutional position) but then, I'm not a fan of Kim Kardashian either but there are obviously folks out there who are. Fast food chains don't pay people a couple million to feature in their commercials if no one cares about them. How many people here are avid 'Jersey Shore' viewers? Must be a few fans somewhere if their cast members are being offered a hundred grand to hang out at a club for one night.

 

I'm not debating any of this, as you play it to safe to debate it.

 

Just for my own (and maybe other readers) attention span, I'm going to reduce what you wrote to a few sentences (and I'm not knocking you for having long replys at all, I would be more guilty then you of that).

 

What I think Remi is saying bassically, is a product get's "name" value, no matter if they deserve it or not sometimes. Green Giant vegetable's sell for an amount over a lesser known product, even if that product is the better product. It might taste better, canned from better vegetables, and could be better in every way you can think of, but because they are not a "Named" brand, they might only sell for half as much as a name brand like Green Giant.

 

I agree with that. I just don't think it's a very good anology when talking about the WWE. I think it has some merit, but not to the extent that some might prefer to believe.

[Stennick]

Generally speaking, this might be correct. But there are problems that come with this. Just ask General Motors and Ford. When you're that big, it's hard to be nimble and responsiveness is extremely important in the entertainment field.

 

I agree with you that becoming the top brand in an industry can help you. Just as it helped Ford and GM for so many years. My point was that if you don't maintain that brand then eventually it will not matter and you can go out of business no matter how big you are. I pointed this out because JWT had said the WWE is only still around because of 1. The Attitude Years (which I think I properly put that argument to rest with revenue numbers of the last couple of post attitude years). And 2. Because they are the name brand in their area. Which to a degree is true but its not like they have any real competition for that spot at the moment so its truly hard to say the WWE is successful because of being known as THE brand for pro wrestling. While thats true they don't have anyone to compete properly against for that spot. Comparing the WWE to Green Giant Veggies you have to at this point atleast compare TNA to Walmart Branded Veggies. When you have to look at the UFC as competition which is like saying that Green Beans biggest competitor is Corn that when you know you have a monopoly. Now if someone wants to make an argument that their the only Brand so there fore the most successful brand that might be a better argument to make.

 

From a corporate standpoint, WWE is better (though I wish their P&E was better). From a consumer standpoint (which is the very definition of personal opinion), nah. I think I've given away or turned down more tickets to WWE events than most people ever see (even traded Royal Rumble tickets for Gospelfest ). I'm not really a fan of them (more of a casual observer, given their institutional position) but then, I'm not a fan of Kim Kardashian either but there are obviously folks out there who are. Fast food chains don't pay people a couple million to feature in their commercials if no one cares about them. How many people here are avid 'Jersey Shore' viewers? Must be a few fans somewhere if their cast members are being offered a hundred grand to hang out at a club for one night.

 

This is precisely my point. A lot of people in this very thread claim to not be big WWE fans, yet they still sell out pay per view venues. Take a look at top Sports and Recreation DVD sales UFC and the WWE are always on top. Other merchandise such as clothing, figurines, etc. sales not even UFC can touch them in this area. There are literally millions of people who not only love the WWE but will spend money on their product even in these hard financial times. Even in a time when virtually all entertainment products are suffering. Free Agency in sports, music deals, etc. their all either holding or less than they were five years ago. In this world the WWE continues to drive people to pay their hard earned cash. Thats why I say that if your for lack of a better term forcing people to hand you their hard earned cash in return for some momentary (in a lot of cases) entertainment then you truly have to be the very best at what you do. Remi may not think so, I may not think so, this entire board may not think the WWE is the best wrestling company in the world. They may not even call themselves wrestling however if you talk to a sales guy at Ford he won't say he's selling you a car he'll say he's selling you a FORD.

[djthefunkchris]

So... WWE is "Ford tough"?

[Wrestling Century]

BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!

 

Did that get everybody's attention long enough to stop arguing? You can't even get a conversation going right now with this!

[masterded]

Is going to Raw tonight. Woot, I guess.

[Tha Black Phenom]

WC, what's wrong with debating anyway? I enjoyed reading through that.

 

Hopefully you have a good time masterded, I really hope they book a show here since Bret has finally re-surfaced, but it'll likely be for a long while anyway before they do. Sigh.