brashleyholland Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Jericho switched because the real Walls of Jericho actually hurt. WWE went all low impact on their moves. The Walls of Jericho strains even when it isn't being done "for real" if it you do it in at least a half believable manner. None of the submission moves in the E are done in a way that causes and strain on the body anymore and that includes the (lol?) Boston Crab that Jericho does now that is really more of a "constipated squat leg hold." Makes sense I guess. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:JerichoLiontamer.jpg ...doesn't look painfull at all I really hate submission finishers...guys sit in them for minutes at a time without tapping/passing out. Yet the following week the same guy in the same move is tapping like it's going out of fashion. Hate it. One or the other, not both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alden Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 I always thought it was because of who he worked against in wcw. He worked against smaller more agile men. A man who could be bent more without breaking something. Could you see jericho putting the old school walls of jericho on say a mark henery or a kane? their backs would not be able to mend enough without seriously hurting them. Yes the move it self does hurt........very bad........but i always thought it was so he could work with more people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stennick Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Makes sense I guess. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:JerichoLiontamer.jpg ...doesn't look painfull at all I really hate submission finishers...guys sit in them for minutes at a time without tapping/passing out. Yet the following week the same guy in the same move is tapping like it's going out of fashion. Hate it. One or the other, not both. Isn't it the same way with finishers? Some guys kick out of a finishers all the time or "counter" them or what have you and the very next week someone is killed dead by it. In fact that is all of pro wrestling. Chris Jericho uses a boston crab as a finisher but somebody else uses it as a transition hold. John Cena was using an FU which was what a firemans carry slam how is that more devastating than say a suplex or a hip toss? Its not, its wrestling and we're supposed to believe that this guy has "mastered" this hold. Sure the announcers don't do a good job expaining it. In WCW you'd hear things like "the master of the Diamond Cutter" or what have you reminding fans that he has perfected this move. They hyped up Benoit's Crossface as death as well, The Giants Chokeslam, WCW was great at hyping guys finishers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashleyholland Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Isn't it the same way with finishers? Some guys kick out of a finishers all the time or "counter" them or what have you and the very next week someone is killed dead by it. In fact that is all of pro wrestling. Chris Jericho uses a boston crab as a finisher but somebody else uses it as a transition hold. John Cena was using an FU which was what a firemans carry slam how is that more devastating than say a suplex or a hip toss? Its not, its wrestling and we're supposed to believe that this guy has "mastered" this hold. Sure the announcers don't do a good job expaining it. In WCW you'd hear things like "the master of the Diamond Cutter" or what have you reminding fans that he has perfected this move. They hyped up Benoit's Crossface as death as well, The Giants Chokeslam, WCW was great at hyping guys finishers. I guess so. I think my issue with submissions, especially things like the ankle lock which are supposed to be bone-breakers, is that guys will sometimes literally spend over a minute in the hold. With a finnisher, it's easier to suspend disbelief because it either knocks you out or it doesn't. If it doesn't you kick out. I think it's something Japanese wrestling does well...guys having multiple 'finnishers' and bouts often ending on random moves. Then you have guys with a 'super' finisher that they hardly use, which always works for years on end. Then when someone finally does kick out of it, it's a huge deal. I should probably just chill the you-know-what out and get on with it though :-p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesterx7769 Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 I see what you mean and agree but its just no a sports entertainment approach which we have 100% grown into. I would love to see a match end on a superplex every now and then instead of a minute of lying on the mat but we all expect the superplex to be followed by The Pedigree and if its not the match comes off as having a lame finish. Also have the multiple finish thing but during an angle one superkick or something and they are out for 5 minutes and cant even roll over to get the out out of their face Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyde Hill Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Totally agree with you there jester. How is it that in angles all the moves even when there are no further weapons etc involved seem to have 200% of the impact always baffles me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestling Century Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Guys, you should suspend disbelief a little more. We all should remember that this is entertainment. Also, multiple finishers is one of the trademarks of Sports Entertainment IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CQI13 Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Or like an indy show that Cornette, where every match ended on a random move. Something like: Finisher > Kick Out > Other wrestler's finisher > Kick Out > Schoolboy Roll up. That'd be interesting as hell to see on a show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterHilton Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 Y'know...this HBK/Taker thing has been built so well..how does it NOT main event WM? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astil Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 THESE FANS ARE RUINING A GREAT PROMO! I f'n hate this 'what?' bull****. EDIT: Okay, I need to order WM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sensai of Mattitude Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 I was sort of expecting Buried Alive then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tha Black Phenom Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 Streak vs. Career... well, they damn sure got my attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tag01 Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 Do the Bella twins actually wrestle or are they professional hot chicks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECW 2.0 Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 Streak vs. Career... well, they damn sure got my attention. If HBK loses he'll just start wrestling agian in about a year or two its a fact all WWE "Legends" do it or the majority Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astil Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 If HBK loses he'll just start wrestling agian in about a year or two its a fact all WWE "Legends" do it or the majority Drama killer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astil Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 Oh hey, Brian Danielson on Raw. Lookit that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Final Countdown Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 Oh hey, Brian Danielson on Raw. Lookit that. Is it pathetic that I seriously marked out seeing him on for like 5-10 seconds? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astil Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 Is it pathetic that I seriously marked out seeing him on for like 5-10 seconds? Not at all. I'm just glad WWE is treating him like he's kinda a big deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Final Countdown Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 Not at all. I'm just glad WWE is treating him like he's kinda a big deal. Ditto. I like that they are acknowledging the fact that he's not actually a "rookie", and has considerable experience. The Miz/Danielson interaction seems like it's going to be the focal point of the show. I'm very interested in seeing how it plays out, which is more than I can say for the bulk of the stuff they'll be hyping leading into Mania, aside from Jericho/Edge and, possibly, HBK/Taker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remianen Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 EDIT: Actually, if you didn't like him on those shows, and his character is basically an arrogant Hollywood douchebag, wouldn't it make it easier to at least appreciate his work as a heel? I mean..his is actually playing someone you're supposed to dislike. Yeah but he is supposed to "like disliking him" that's the difference he is pointing out I think. He actively dislikes him in a get of my screen way. This. I can't speak for anyone else but I despise the Miz and not in the 'good' way. It's 'gtfo my screen' or 'switch to The Mentalist or Lie to Me or something on HGTV'. I'm a little shocked to see folks gossiping in apparent awe of an "insider" though. Never quite saw the appeal of spoilers. I'm going to keep coming back to this point. Self, you are a screenwriter. Screenwriters tend to HATE it when people "blow" the surprise they've been building for months, don't they? But this is a different world from when Bogey was plying his trade. People often want to know if spending the money is worth it. Thus, someone saying in advance "these people won these matches" doesn't remove the desire to buy. If anything, it makes folks want to tune in to see how (or not to tune in if they don't like the circumstances). Didn't really know which thread this belonged in but since it was a WWE event, there was a TNA sign in the front of the crowd and got on camera quite a few times most notably in the Miz vs MVP match before it gets visibly taken away. The first sign, pun intended, of the times of change lolz. I seriously doubt anyone with clout in WWE is the least bit concerned about TNA's pending move to Mondays. TNA is very scattershot with their booking. And this is probably the worst time for them to make the move since this little corridor is usually where the 'E does their best booking since it leads to their supposed 'big' PPV. I'm just kinda surprised at the apparent "OMG he must be an insider!!!!" reactions. In an age where Chris Jericho is twittering about getting arrested and Matt Hardy is on Youtube asking fans whether he should wear tights or cargo pants, why do we care that a mysterious message board poster may or may not be an 'insider'? Celebrity worship run amok. Besides, folks who reveal spoilers should be hunted down and beaten with brooms, not applauded. They spoil things. It's right there in the name. Bzzt! Sorry Self, that brush is a bit too broad. Spoilers are often used for marketing and promotional purposes. This is especially true in gaming but also occurs frequently in wrestling. Sometimes it backfires (right Eric Bischoff?) but it's largely FREE so it does have appeal. You want an example? Heh, wait and see what kind of spoilers come out about Cataclysm. Leaks have already been planned and plotted. I realise that Jericho stopped using the 'elevated' Walls of Jericho some time ago, but was there a particular reason he went from using that to the regular Boston Crab? I always though the old version looked great and made it stand out more. Jericho switched because the real Walls of Jericho actually hurt. WWE went all low impact on their moves. The Walls of Jericho strains even when it isn't being done "for real" if it you do it in at least a half believable manner. None of the submission moves in the E are done in a way that causes and strain on the body anymore and that includes the (lol?) Boston Crab that Jericho does now that is really more of a "constipated squat leg hold." Yeah, this. The original Walls put pressure on the neck as well as the lower back. Guys, you should suspend disbelief a little more. We all should remember that this is entertainment. So wait, lemme get this straight. It's my job as a consumer to accept anything and everything a purveyor of 'entertainment' puts out? Suspension of disbelief is the job of the content creator. It's the same here as it is in gaming. If your scripts are so paper thin and completely unbelievable as to turn an audience off, that's not the audience's fault. You want an example? Avatar. Knowing it wasn't real didn't even factor into most people's evaluation of the film. But then again, there are obviously people who watch those crappy infomercials and buy all that garbage 'rock hard abs in 30 seconds' contraptions so I guess some people suspend disbelief better/easier than others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Self Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 I simply think drama is more genuine and emotional if you don't know exactly what's going to happen. It's a storytelling viewpoint as opposed to a business one, but it's what I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remianen Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 I simply think drama is more genuine and emotional if you don't know exactly what's going to happen. It's a storytelling viewpoint as opposed to a business one, but it's what I believe. And you're absolutely correct. However, it doesn't have to be the only (or even the main) method. Who didn't know what was gonna happen at the end of 'Titanic'? But the way the writers arrived at that point is what made the work compelling to many. I don't know if I would consider WWE as 'drama' but some folks might so good on them. tl;dr version - Journey vs Destination Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hive Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 So... Edge wins the title at Wrestlemania, Christian wins the money in the bank match, and the fans finally get the Edge vs. Christian match they have longed for so long...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyde Hill Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 Well we can kinda assume that whoever wins MITB will cash it relatively quick because the MITB ppv comes a couple of months after. Would be weird to have two guys with the case running around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Shape Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 Or maybe that's when he'll cash it in. If they do go ahead with that PPV. But I really, really don't want to see E vs. C if both are face or if Christian is the heel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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