The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[LoganRodzen]

Well, funny thing. Spent like an hour watching RAW, and then they tell me it's time to change the channel because Bryan's coming on tomorrow night, not tonight.

 

I love King ribbing him, "maybe you should see a therapist" or whatever it was he said.

[Genadi]

Or maybe you know .... they just figured out he sucks.

 

Sucking has never stopped them pushing guys before?

[Linsolv]

Honestly, I cannot see criticism of Miz after the past few months. I marked a bit for Kofi, but he mostly got over just by winning a few matches. The Miz would've been able to get over just on his mic work, assuming you actually listen to them... I mean it. Jeez grammar.

[PeterHilton]

Seriously? So losing matches = being pushed down the card?

 

Even though he's spent the past few months working programs with Bret Hart, Big Show and Chris Jericho? And has been featured on TV 2-3 times a week?

 

I thought the people on this board were smarter than that.

 

When your main event scene on Raw is Edge, Cena, Orton, Sheamus and Triple H when he returns..what was Miz's next step?

 

If the Miz keeps losing or disappears off TV entirely like Morrison, then you can say he's been pushed down the card or the company has lost confidence in him. But for all we know, he's going to have a running rivalry with Bret..or fued with Killings over the US title..or maybe even have a three way feud with Killings and Morrison...etc.

[Linsolv]

Seriously? So losing matches = being pushed down the card?

 

Even though he's spent the past few months working programs with Bret Hart, Big Show and Chris Jericho? And has been featured on TV 2-3 times a week?

 

I thought the people on this board were smarter than that.

 

When your main event scene on Raw is Edge, Cena, Orton, Sheamus and Triple H when he returns..what was Miz's next step?

 

If the Miz keeps losing or disappears off TV entirely like Morrison, then you can say he's been pushed down the card or the company has lost confidence in him. But for all we know, he's going to have a running rivalry with Bret..or fued with Killings over the US title..or maybe even have a three way feud with Killings and Morrison...etc.

 

No, having a bad loss to R Truth is being pushed back down the card. At least as far as I'm concerned. That wasn't like a "well maybe if he hadn't cheated" loss, or a "it was close" loss, he went down like a sack of potatoes. He also got shafted by Truth taking so long to pin him. Lol @ hanging out with ass in the air.

 

Bret vacating, I have to assume, was because he's leaving now.

[Big Roguey]

No, having a bad loss to R Truth is being pushed back down the card. At least as far as I'm concerned. That wasn't like a "well maybe if he hadn't cheated" loss, or a "it was close" loss, he went down like a sack of potatoes. He also got shafted by Truth taking so long to pin him. Lol @ hanging out with ass in the air.

 

Bret vacating, I have to assume, was because he's leaving now.

 

Or maybe because he got the GM job.

[PeterHilton]

No, having a bad loss to R Truth is being pushed back down the card. At least as far as I'm concerned. That wasn't like a "well maybe if he hadn't cheated" loss, or a "it was close" loss, he went down like a sack of potatoes. He also got shafted by Truth taking so long to pin him. Lol @ hanging out with ass in the air.

 

He lost clean to someone who the WWE has been pushing up the card for months now...witness Truth's porgrams on SD with Punk and Jericho and his clean win over Dibiase at the PPV.

 

Bret vacating, I have to assume, was because he's leaving now.

 

Or maybe because he got the GM job

 

This.

 

Wait a few weeks, then decide if he's been pushed down the card.

[Linsolv]

Or maybe because he got the GM job.

 

I... ah... I feel silly. I knew that. I did. I just forgot.

[moon_lit_tears]

Seriously? So losing matches = being pushed down the card?

 

Even though he's spent the past few months working programs with Bret Hart, Big Show and Chris Jericho? And has been featured on TV 2-3 times a week?

 

I thought the people on this board were smarter than that.

 

When your main event scene on Raw is Edge, Cena, Orton, Sheamus and Triple H when he returns..what was Miz's next step?

 

If the Miz keeps losing or disappears off TV entirely like Morrison, then you can say he's been pushed down the card or the company has lost confidence in him. But for all we know, he's going to have a running rivalry with Bret..or fued with Killings over the US title..or maybe even have a three way feud with Killings and Morrison...etc.

 

 

Ok I see The Miz has a big net following, but why?

 

Really the guy is a jackass on and off the screen. He really has no talent. I just hate the guy. He really is not awesome. Ok maybe...maybe even slightly good.....awesome...NO...just...no.

[PeterHilton]

Ok I see The Miz has a big net following, but why?

 

Really the guy is a jackass on and off the screen. He really has no talent. I just hate the guy. He really is not awesome. Ok maybe...maybe even slightly good.....awesome...NO...just...no.

 

Honestly, that's just a difference of opinion. i don't think he's that great persnally, but he's clearly been able to get the crowds to buy into him and -more importantly than anything - he elicits a response.

 

He gets a good old fashioned "i hate this guy and i want someone to punch him in the face" heel reaction from the crowd. And that's his job.

 

The fact that his "catchphrase" is trite and lame and a billion percent predictable makes him even more heelish.

 

If Spencer from The Hills was a wrestler, he'd be The Miz. And that's exactly what he;s going for IMO. So ..he's doing his job.

 

That's his talent.

 

(not sure why you think he's a jackass of the screen. you must have a low tolerance for the jock/meathed type)

[Linsolv]

(not sure why you think he's a jackass of the screen. you must have a low tolerance for the jock/meathed type)

 

No no no, she watched the XFL the whole first season.

[PeterHilton]

No no no, she watched the XFL the whole first season.

 

Big difference between watching sports and actually relating to and geting along with the frat boy mentality.

[jbergey_2005]

I wonder if it would work if wrestling took a step back and tried to pretend they were a legitimate sport again.

 

You know instead of having Triple H get to the top of the card and stay there for 15 years you have the guys in their late 20's early 30s take over the top spots for awhile until the next batch matures.

 

I find it just gets old after 3-4 years(same top guys, same feuds, same everything). I loved the WWF as kid in the late 80's early 90s then I stopped watching until around 05. I actually found it interesting for a couple of years now I am feeling the same way because nothing ever changes.

 

I just wonder if their isnt a lot more they could do with their product to keep it fresh.

 

The WWE coming out as an entertainment fed may have helped in the short term but I also think it may have topped out at that point.

 

This is just my opinion and I am sure a lot of people will not agree before I get bashed too hard.

[CQI13]

Wasn't Hogan on top forever seemingly in the 80s/90s?

[PeterHilton]

I'll be gentle.

 

I wonder if it would work if wrestling took a step back and tried to pretend they were a legitimate sport again.

 

Can't. Can't do it legally due to sports licensing issues. Cant do it from a PR standpoint because actual legit fighting sports would make them look stupid.

 

You know instead of having Triple H get to the top of the card and stay there for 15 years you have the guys in their late 20's early 30s take over the top spots for awhile until the next batch matures.

 

Not a bad idea. This probably has more to do with the E needing to rely on a certain amount of predictability to generate revenue. If you KNOW a guy can draw, it's hard for them to justify moving him of his spot.

 

I find it just gets old after 3-4 years(same top guys, same feuds, same everything). I loved the WWF as kid in the late 80's early 90s then I stopped watching until around 05. I actually found it interesting for a couple of years now I am feeling the same way because nothing ever changes.

 

See above. good point though.

 

I just wonder if their isnt a lot more they could do with their product to keep it fresh.

 

The WWE coming out as an entertainment fed may have helped in the short term but I also think it may have topped out at that point.

 

This is just my opinion and I am sure a lot of people will not agree before I get bashed too hard.

 

 

To be fair...they 'came out' as an entertainment fed in the mid 80s. They are the essentially the only name in their industry and have destroyed all their major competition and there's n end in sight.

 

That's not exactly short term.

 

A lot of it has to do with who they're marketing to. They've made a conscious decision to not worry about the 'smart' or 'hardcore' fans. If you stop watching now and come back in 6 months or so, you'll pick up all the storylines after watching one or two episodes. (Ive done it..it's easy)

 

They WANT the casual fan, which leads to a slower, more predictable, easier to relate to product. For better or worse.

[jbergey_2005]

Wasn't Hogan on top forever seemingly in the 80s/90s?

 

He was. He wasnt Main Eventing 13 PPVs a year and on TV 3 times a week either though. They pretty much saved him for huge angles and the 3-4 PPVs they had then along with house shows.

[jbergey_2005]

 

Not a bad idea. This probably has more to do with the E needing to rely on a certain amount of predictability to generate revenue. If you KNOW a guy can draw, it's hard for them to justify moving him of his spot.

 

 

Thanks for being gentle:)

 

You know this is probably what it is however I wonder if they have any idea how legitimate sports work.

 

We just know that eventually Peyton Manning, Brett Favre, or Tom Brady will start to age and not be the player they were. These guys are still the most popular players but it doesnt mean they are as good as they once were.

 

I guess I wonder if it would really be so terrible to see a guy like Triple H on the undercard losing to CM Punk or the Undertaker losing to Jack Swagger on the undercard. The fans still get to see the wrestlers they idolize and will pay to see while we can still see Cena and Orton and some other younger stars headlining the PPVs and showcasing new talent. Not saying Undertaker or Triple H couldnt headline in this scenario I am just basically saying when they did headline if it were only once a year would make that event even bigger. Like Brett Favre making one last Super Bowl when he is 40 or something like that. Real Sports stay fresh so I am not sure why a fixed sport that can create any possible scenario cant stay fresh.

 

I know this will never happen as wrestlers have too huge of egos but I really wish it would go this direction.

[moon_lit_tears]

No no no, she watched the XFL the whole first season.

 

What's your oint?

 

Big difference between watching sports and actually relating to and geting along with the frat boy mentality.

 

I'm fine with the whole frat boy thing. I know many guys who act like this that I get along with just fine. Just this guy is a douche.

 

Wasn't Hogan on top forever seemingly in the 80s/90s?

 

For some reason he was. No talent either.

[jbergey_2005]

 

For some reason he was. No talent either.

 

People love to say this for some reason. He must have had some talent if he was able to sell out the Silverdome. He may have been a poor technical wrestler but he certainly had a lot of talent. He could work a crowd like no other and he had charisma that could only be challenged by the rock.

 

He was very possible the best face in the history of wrestling along with the best heel in the history of wrestling. Can you really say he has no talent?

[MattitudeV2]

2 Spolier Alerts here....

 

Jimmy Uso, Jules Uso and Tamina (John Fatu,Josh Fatu and Sarona Snuka respectivley) were the team that attacked the Hart Dynasty

 

Randy Orton has apparently wrestled with the seperated shoulder during his match against Edge and after he reinjured it at Over The Limit he would destroy the training room

[moon_lit_tears]

People love to say this for some reason. He must have had some talent if he was able to sell out the Silverdome. He may have been a poor technical wrestler but he certainly had a lot of talent. He could work a crowd like no other and he had charisma that could only be challenged by the rock.

 

He was very possible the best face in the history of wrestling along with the best heel in the history of wrestling. Can you really say he has no talent?

 

He was a good showmen. That was about it. I mean lets face it he had one move. I would be a liar if I said I didn't like him back in his prime.

[PeterHilton]

For some reason he was. No talent either.

 

This shows that you pretty much have no idea how the wrestling business works. Like...not one clue.

 

The entire point of pro wrestling is to make people want to pay money to see you. That's it.

 

It's not about flipping around the ring or workrate or movesets or any of these other bullsh*t terms that internet wrestling nerds love so much.

 

Can you make people care so much about what you do in character, in the ring, that they are willing to go to the arena, buy a ppv, turn on their tv, buy your merchandise...?

 

If you can make people PAY TO SEE YOU you are a good worker (the history of the industry is littered with guys who weren't mind blowing in the ring but were still insanely hot draws). As jbergey said, he's arguably the greatest heel and greatest face of all time. He's been one of if not the bigest draw in the business for damn near 30 years.

 

If you ask me, Hogan is the greatest PRO WRESTLER EVER.

[ampulator]

NO. If it was Wellness, they would publicly announce it as a Wellness strike.

[Hyde Hill]

Yeah already deleted it, sorry was a brainfart.

[ampulator]

In any case, in defense of the Miz, he was pretty annoying at first. And not in the good way. It was Triple H or even X-Pac heat at first.

 

But he clearly has a good gimmick, a great character, good to great entertainment skills, decent physicality (for the WWE), and is decent to good performer.

 

He's basically the WWE's near total package, minus the size and weight.

 

As for the IWC likes him, it's not that he's THAT DAMN GREAT, but rather, he has very little flaws.

 

People misunderstand what the IWC wants. People think the IWC wants a wrestler to have everything, but that's not the case.

 

What the IWC wants is a wrestler to have the least amount of flaws possible. For example, if a person was really good at one thing, but sucked at others, the IWC would crap on them. But if the person was a bit good at one thing, average at the others, IWC won't crap on them.