The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[The Final Countdown]

Hulk Hogan: arguably the greatest heel of all time? I strongly disagree. Hollywood Hogan and the nWo were hot for a year and a half to two years, sure, but I don't think he had the staying power/track record as a heel to deserve that kind of praise.

[moon_lit_tears]

So you watch Wrestling for lame moves?

 

Personally I like the flipping and such. I was never a fan of Hogans antics. Like I said I enjoyed his ploy, but he had no talent in the ring.

 

The sad part is you get guys with Talent but no personality outside the ring.

[Bigpapa42]

People love to say this for some reason. He must have had some talent if he was able to sell out the Silverdome. He may have been a poor technical wrestler but he certainly had a lot of talent. He could work a crowd like no other and he had charisma that could only be challenged by the rock.

 

He was very possible the best face in the history of wrestling along with the best heel in the history of wrestling. Can you really say he has no talent?

 

So many people underrate Hogan's in-ring abilities. He was never the most skilled or diverse wrestler. But he could work - if you look at some of his Japan and AWA stuff, you can see that. He stuck to a basic formula in the WWF and beyond because, quite simply, it worked. He didn't need to do more than the basics to have the crowd loving every minute of everyone one of his matches. By the middle of his WCW run, I don't think he could much more than the basics. But earlier in his career, he certainly could.

 

One of the most important skills a wrestler can have is making the fans care. And that's not just by playing a character and/or cutting promos, but also by what you do in the ring. Hogan was a master at that. There is a long list of fantastic wrestlers who had all the technical skills but who just couldn't engage fans to any real degree.

 

So you watch Wrestling for lame moves?

 

Personally I like the flipping and such. I was never a fan of Hogans antics. Like I said I enjoyed his ploy, but he had no talent in the ring.

 

The sad part is you get guys with Talent but no personality outside the ring.

 

I watch wrestling to be entertained. And yes, "lame moves" can be entertaining. Like the People's Elbow. Its not about the move itself, but the excecution and the anticipating the wrestler can build for it.

 

As for "no talent", I do suggest finding his stuff from Japan. His match with Stan Hansen from about '90 shows what he could do.

[PeterHilton]

Hulk Hogan: arguably the greatest heel of all time? I strongly disagree. Hollywood Hogan and the nWo were hot for a year and a half to two years, sure, but I don't think he had the staying power/track record as a heel to deserve that kind of praise.

 

Fair enough. I'd say the sheer amount of heat he drew plus the fact that his turn created such a shift in the industry deserves consideration though.

 

So you watch Wrestling for lame moves?

 

Personally I like the flipping and such. I was never a fan of Hogans antics. Like I said I enjoyed his ploy, but he had no talent in the ring.

 

I watch wrestling to be entertained. Period.

 

The Rock was no great shakes in the ring. Huge draw.

 

Stone Cold's hottest period was during his lowest point in terms of in-ring work.

 

Bruno Sammartino? Basic brawler.

 

Gorgeous George? A 20 minute slapfest.

 

Jerry Lawler? One of the biggest single draw in terms of a single territory and arguably one of the worst workers I've seen.

 

I can go on but you get my point...PRO WRESTLING has never been about who is capable of being the best wrestler. It's about who is the best entertainer.

[moon_lit_tears]

I get what you are saying.

 

I have lost my love of the show due to crappy in my opinion story lines.

[ampulator]

Jerry Lawler wasn't THAT bad in the ring. There's been worst. Yes, he's basic in the ring - but he wasn't so bad as to be the botchfests of dooms.

[Bigpapa42]

Jerry Lawler wasn't THAT bad in the ring. There's been worst. Yes, he's basic in the ring - but he wasn't so bad as to be the botchfests of dooms.

 

Lol... Yeah, Lawler was nothing special but he wasn't terrible from most of what I've seen either. Just quite basic. Most of what I've seen has been from the 80s and 90s... I wonder if his stuff from the 70s was better? Was he like Hogan in that he could work a more diverse style but found the formula that worked for him and kept the fans happy?

[BurningHamster]

 

 

I watch wrestling to be entertained. Period.

 

The Rock was no great shakes in the ring. Huge draw.

 

Stone Cold's hottest period was during his lowest point in terms of in-ring work.

 

Bruno Sammartino? Basic brawler.

 

Gorgeous George? A 20 minute slapfest.

 

Jerry Lawler? One of the biggest single draw in terms of a single territory and arguably one of the worst workers I've seen.

 

I can go on but you get my point...PRO WRESTLING has never been about who is capable of being the best wrestler. It's about who is the best entertainer.

 

You could go on, but since you already made ridiculous comments on the quality of Gorgeous George and Jerry Lawler, nobody with any sense would take you seriously. They were both pretty freaking good in the ring. To consider Lawler one of the worst workers you've seen makes me wonder how little wrestling you have watched.

[PeterHilton]

Jerry Lawler wasn't THAT bad in the ring. There's been worst. Yes, he's basic in the ring - but he wasn't so bad as to be the botchfests of dooms.

 

Considering how long he was on top of Memphis, he was one of the worst workers I've seen.

 

(My opinion is biased though; I can't stand him or 99% of the stuff that ran in Memphis. )

 

But again..he proves my point: he wasn't innovative or spectacular in the ring, but he knew how to get his crowds worked up.

[PeterHilton]

You could go on, but since you already made ridiculous comments on the quality of Gorgeous George and Jerry Lawler, nobody with any sense would take you seriously. They were both pretty freaking good in the ring. To consider Lawler one of the worst workers you've seen makes me wonder how little wrestling you have watched.

 

George was actually really good. His matches did open up with more antics than ring action. But again..was he famous for his ringwork? Or for the act?

 

Lawler...? Like I said I don't like him, his act, his territory..

 

And he was a very basic worker. I don't know about 'freaking good' but yeah maybe he wasn't terrible.

[The Final Countdown]

The Rock was no great shakes in the ring. Huge draw.

I thought Rock was pretty good. Maybe not a technician on par with an Angle or Benoit, but I always thought he had pretty solid skills, in addition to his obviously incredible charisma and ability to get the crowd involved. I feel much the same way about Cena, even if I despise his character.

[PeterHilton]

I thought Rock was pretty good. Maybe not a technician on par with an Angle or Benoit, but I always thought he had pretty solid skills, in addition to his obviously incredible charisma and ability to get the crowd involved. I feel much the same way about Cena, even if I despise his character.

 

Pretty much what I meant by 'no great shakes'..doesn't mean he's anywhere near being terrible.

[The Final Countdown]

Pretty much what I meant by 'no great shakes'..doesn't mean he's anywhere near being terrible.

Ahh...not really familiar with that term, so I guess I misinterpreted.

[moon_lit_tears]

I thought Rock was pretty good. Maybe not a technician on par with an Angle or Benoit, but I always thought he had pretty solid skills, in addition to his obviously incredible charisma and ability to get the crowd involved. I feel much the same way about Cena, even if I despise his character.

 

See I was a fan of the Rock.

 

I LOVE Cena, but then again most females do.

 

I'm just bored with the lame story lines they use.

 

I am happy to see my fav guy back on top...You go MR GM!!!!!

[Linsolv]

I think Otunga's headphones are stupid. It makes him look like a chump that at any time, even though he's supposed to be getting some huge chance, he might decide that listening to an MP3 player is more important.

[Hyde Hill]

This shows that you pretty much have no idea how the wrestling business works. Like...not one clue.

 

The entire point of pro wrestling is to make people want to pay money to see you. That's it.

 

It's not about flipping around the ring or workrate or movesets or any of these other bullsh*t terms that internet wrestling nerds love so much.

 

Can you make people care so much about what you do in character, in the ring, that they are willing to go to the arena, buy a ppv, turn on their tv, buy your merchandise...?

 

If you can make people PAY TO SEE YOU you are a good worker (the history of the industry is littered with guys who weren't mind blowing in the ring but were still insanely hot draws). As jbergey said, he's arguably the greatest heel and greatest face of all time. He's been one of if not the bigest draw in the business for damn near 30 years.

 

If you ask me, Hogan is the greatest PRO WRESTLER EVER.

 

I know we disagree sometimes Peter. But here you are spot on.

[Linsolv]

"I would like to address the most traumatic, the most unprofessional thing that has ever happened to me" -- Michael Cole has blocked out the time when he got bitch slapped by Mr. Stone Cold.

[PeterHilton]

Ahh...not really familiar with that term, so I guess I misinterpreted.

 

No worries.

 

Phenomenal segment on NXT with Bryan/Cole/Miz. Bryan continues to show an ability to 'act' and cut a better-than-expected-by-most promo

 

And Cole was solid too.They might as well run with him as the heel announcer since Jerry is useless.

[The Final Countdown]

No worries.

 

Phenomenal segment on NXT with Bryan/Cole/Miz. Bryan continues to show an ability to 'act' and cut a better-than-expected-by-most promo

 

And Cole was solid too.They might as well run with him as the heel announcer since Jerry is useless.

Completely agree with all of that.

 

Curious as to what the people who didn't really like last week's confrontation thought about this one.

 

Also, Jericho is awesome.

 

EDIT: A Misawa reference? I love you, Striker.

[Linsolv]

The Miz's look when Daniel Bryan insulted him.

 

EDIT: WWE teaches important lessons! Today's lesson, never slap a wrestler when you're a skinny ass pencil-neck.

[Stennick]

In any case, in defense of the Miz, he was pretty annoying at first. And not in the good way. It was Triple H or even X-Pac heat at first.

 

But he clearly has a good gimmick, a great character, good to great entertainment skills, decent physicality (for the WWE), and is decent to good performer.

 

He's basically the WWE's near total package, minus the size and weight.

 

As for the IWC likes him, it's not that he's THAT DAMN GREAT, but rather, he has very little flaws.

 

People misunderstand what the IWC wants. People think the IWC wants a wrestler to have everything, but that's not the case.

 

What the IWC wants is a wrestler to have the least amount of flaws possible. For example, if a person was really good at one thing, but sucked at others, the IWC would crap on them. But if the person was a bit good at one thing, average at the others, IWC won't crap on them.

 

Who are these mysterious IWC I hear about all the time? Is there some executive board that officiates over all internet wrestling message board declaring a set of demands? Anyway I decided to ask since it sounds like you pretty much know what they wanted and with you know most likely millions being in this category around the world I figured you'd have to be a pretty knowledgeable guy to speak for all of them.

[jbergey_2005]

Who are these mysterious IWC I hear about all the time? Is there some executive board that officiates over all internet wrestling message board declaring a set of demands? Anyway I decided to ask since it sounds like you pretty much know what they wanted and with you know most likely millions being in this category around the world I figured you'd have to be a pretty knowledgeable guy to speak for all of them.

 

Haha, Well played.

[LoganRodzen]

Just watched the Danielson segment on WWE.com (because I don't watch NXT) and it was really cool. I thought the stuff on top of the stage with Miz was awesome. The crowd was really into it.

[Candyman]

"I would like to address the most traumatic, the most unprofessional thing that has ever happened to me" -- Michael Cole has blocked out the time when he got bitch slapped by Mr. Stone Cold.

 

Forget that, isn't this the same guy that was once raped by Heidenreich?

 

Still, a great segment. I loved when Bryan punched Miz. I loved the fact that everything Cole said was true, and Bryan's face showed he knew it. It doesn't seem so much like a heel turn anymore, though I'd still love to see him join SES eventually.

 

Surprised it's ending next week, and kind of sad. This week was the first time I actually looked forward to the show since about the second episode.

 

Once again, I cannot get enough of Jericho at ringside. Screaming at the announcers to talk about Barrett, it's all great. By the way, WTF happened to Barrett getting his own entrance theme after winning that competition two months ago? And it would have been nice to get some kind of explanation for Carlito being gone.

[Linsolv]

Y... you're paying too much attention. This is like an E show.

 

But seriously, I wondered that too.