The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[Gabbo]

Let me start off by saying I was the biggest Rock mark ever as a child and basically saw all of his career as I grew up.

 

I haven't seen the last few weeks but I did catch the opening few exchanges and genuinely thought Cena had the better of it. I actually cringed at Rock's "you can't see me" Miz impression. It wasn't funny and just came across a little lame.

 

I remember the rap response to Rock's initial comments. It blew me away. Partly because I thought he slammed Rock, but also because it was not what I was expecting. I was really happy for Cena. He's always been held in the regard that 'if he was around in the Attitude Era he wouldn't even be a upper midcarder' - something which is obviously nonsense.

 

 

As a sidenote, I don't blame Rock for doing what he wanted with his life and being successful. He may not have hit the heights he wanted, or maybe not yet but he has definitely proven himself as a bankable leading man.

[jbergey_2005]

I agree

 

It ends up being that way but there is really no reason to dislike either of these two.

 

They are both great performers that most people enjoy that add a lot to anything they are a part of.

 

I still dont get the blind hatred of John Cena. He is an absolute class act in every aspect of life. Ive never seen a bad article written about him and the way he treats our military people is nothing but classy.

 

I dont really care who is winning this battle. They are both playing within a gimmick to entertain us. Rock has a lot more freedom on what he can say. Cena has to hold back because of his gimmick which may be a reason people think the Rock is getting the best of him. I think Cena has actually been sharper on the mic as I think Rock is a bit rusty.

[djthefunkchris]

I'm sorry, but I just can't relate to dissing The Rock for making the most of his career. He got an opportunity to do something more with his life than he was doing, to become even more famous and most importantly, to make even more money... and he took it. Good for him, I sure would have done the same.

 

There are a handfull of people like you out there, and there is nothing wrong with "understanding" what he was doing. To me though, there is more truth in Cenas words then The Rocks. He was speaking as a "FAN" in his initial interview that The Rock is talking about. His point is solid, in my opinion. Distance himself away from the WWE all he wanted, but in all honesty, I don't think he would have had any worse luck.

 

You of course missed the whole point. Your talking about him leaving to make more money and movies. No one (not even Cena) has said anything bad about that. What you didn't address is the way he looked back on wrestling in almost every interview, as if that was almost an embarressment to bring it up to him. That and the fact he rarely showed up, even "Via Sattelite", is something he could have done different.

 

What was it Cena said? Just show up, raise an eyebrow, give "US" (talking about himself as well) all a thrill. You don't have to do anything but show up.

[Hive]

I still dont get the blind hatred of John Cena. He is an absolute class act in every aspect of life.

 

Oh it's definately my impression that he's a great guy irl. And there's no doubt that he's very charismatic and good on the mic. It even doesn't really bother me that he's not a stellar performer in the ring (it's not like eg. The Rock is a Kurt Angle either). That doesn't change the fact that I absolutely loathe his 'superman rapper PG' gimmick, though. I really really despise it. And that's what I respond to when seeing him, not the guy he may be behind his gimmick.

[Slim Jim]

Maybe if WWE hadn't just let his contract run up without talking to him about it, he wouldn't have been quite so distant about it. And he always seemed very positive about his fans, if not always about the 'E specifically.

[jbergey_2005]

Oh it's definately my impression that he's a great guy irl. And there's no doubt that he's very charismatic and good on the mic. It even doesn't really bother me that he's not a stellar performer in the ring (it's not like eg. The Rock is a Kurt Angle either). That doesn't change the fact that I absolutely loathe his 'superman rapper PG' gimmick, though. I really really despise it. And that's what I respond to when seeing him, not the guy he may be behind his gimmick.

 

Honestly I think that gimmick is old too but when I hear the entire crowd cheer against him it kind of pisses me off. He is suppose to be speaking for the fans which creative has him doing but of course it backfires because its Cena. Its kind of odd that creative also has The Rock picking on Cena about the gimmick they created for him. No wonder why he gets booed.

[Teh_Showtime]

Maybe if WWE hadn't just let his contract run up without talking to him about it, he wouldn't have been quite so distant about it. And he always seemed very positive about his fans, if not always about the 'E specifically.

 

that was when Vinny Mac was legit injured and not on road due to like 2 torn muscles so it falls on whoever was 2nd in command that forgot it was up (nowdays that position would be HHH idk about then)

[djthefunkchris]

Honestly I think that gimmick is old too but when I hear the entire crowd cheer against him it kind of pisses me off. He is suppose to be speaking for the fans which creative has him doing but of course it backfires because its Cena. Its kind of odd that creative also has The Rock picking on Cena about the gimmick they created for him. No wonder why he gets booed.

 

that was when Vinny Mac was legit injured and not on road due to like 2 torn muscles so it falls on whoever was 2nd in command that forgot it was up (nowdays that position would be HHH idk about then)

 

Both legit, etc.

 

I really want to get off discussing that stuff though, and onto something I really enjoyed.

 

When The Rock come on that first Monday night, that started it (the night they announced he was the Host of Wrestlemania this year). The biggest part of that night for me was when he come down and did his normal "FINALLY!!" schtick. The way he shook his head and everything at that point. That I guess if I ever said I marked out, I did at that point. When he does that little head shake, it's like he's giving himself "the chills" and shaking them off. The chills like when you here a great singer for the first time live, and you just know right then if the right people get ahold of them that's going to be a star. I don't know really how to explain it, but I felt whatever it was he was feeling at the time, and I guess that's what makes him "The Great One". I mean, no matter how you analyse everything, The Rock definately has the people's support no matter if they were boo'ing him all night long or not. IF he comes out there and says "Finally!", It's all over.

 

Speaking of singing, he could have done that as well. Has a great voice to be honest.

[Teh_Showtime]

During his backstage segments with Hurricane he used to sing before Helms interrupted him. What followed were some very entertaining segments

[juggaloninjalee]

Maybe if WWE hadn't just let his contract run up without talking to him about it, he wouldn't have been quite so distant about it. And he always seemed very positive about his fans, if not always about the 'E specifically.

 

I think that is ultimately why he didn't continue wrestling. They could have resigned him to a 5 year part time schedule so he could still do his movies.

 

Anyways I don't think Cena has ever been crisp on the mic. When he does his raps his delivery is kinda slow but the disses are kinda funny in a teenage way.

 

Rock cut better promos on Cena I think. They both have charisma, and both have the confidence. Rock has the delivery and Cena doesn't. Rock has decent catch phrases and Cena really doesn't. Both are funny but in different ways. That's my opinion and I wouldn't say I am a Cena hater. I am just bored with him as he is. I enjoyed when he was a heel much more.

 

Miz hopefully by next year at this time has improved just as much as this past year. Miz has a ton of potential.

[djthefunkchris]

Oh it's definately my impression that he's a great guy irl. And there's no doubt that he's very charismatic and good on the mic. It even doesn't really bother me that he's not a stellar performer in the ring (it's not like eg. The Rock is a Kurt Angle either). That doesn't change the fact that I absolutely loathe his 'superman rapper PG' gimmick, though. I really really despise it. And that's what I respond to when seeing him, not the guy he may be behind his gimmick.

 

I think that is ultimately why he didn't continue wrestling. They could have resigned him to a 5 year part time schedule so he could still do his movies.

 

Anyways I don't think Cena has ever been crisp on the mic. When he does his raps his delivery is kinda slow but the disses are kinda funny in a teenage way.

 

Rock cut better promos on Cena I think. They both have charisma, and both have the confidence. Rock has the delivery and Cena doesn't. Rock has decent catch phrases and Cena really doesn't. Both are funny but in different ways. That's my opinion and I wouldn't say I am a Cena hater. I am just bored with him as he is. I enjoyed when he was a heel much more.

 

Miz hopefully by next year at this time has improved just as much as this past year. Miz has a ton of potential.

 

Both of you are essentially saying the same thing I think.

 

I see this all the time on Youtube and other internet websights. People really want to see a Heel Cena. I really don't see that happening, unless The Rock really does actually come back and become an active role. IF he did, then I can see them taking a chance on a heel turn for Cena, because they would have The Rock as a backup plan or whatever.

 

Without someone more over, or at least as over, as Cena, I just don't see them going for a heel turn with him.

[Fantabulous]

that was when Vinny Mac was legit injured and not on road due to like 2 torn muscles so it falls on whoever was 2nd in command that forgot it was up (nowdays that position would be HHH idk about then)

 

If you're referring to Vince's two torn quads, that happened almost a full month after Rock's contract expired. In any event, you don't just accidentally forget to renew the contract of arguably the biggest star to ever work for you. Rock obviously knew the score because he stayed away from them for a couple of years, declining repeated attempts to get him to make an appearance. He only really came because the company wanted him to induct his father and grandfather into their Hall of Fame.

[Tha Black Phenom]

Let me start off by saying I was the biggest Rock mark ever as a child and basically saw all of his career as I grew up.

 

I haven't seen the last few weeks but I did catch the opening few exchanges and genuinely thought Cena had the better of it. I actually cringed at Rock's "you can't see me" Miz impression. It wasn't funny and just came across a little lame.

 

I remember the rap response to Rock's initial comments. It blew me away. Partly because I thought he slammed Rock, but also because it was not what I was expecting. I was really happy for Cena. He's always been held in the regard that 'if he was around in the Attitude Era he wouldn't even be a upper midcarder' - something which is obviously nonsense.

 

 

As a sidenote, I don't blame Rock for doing what he wanted with his life and being successful. He may not have hit the heights he wanted, or maybe not yet but he has definitely proven himself as a bankable leading man.

 

Cena's first rap was legit. The second rap... at first, it looked good, but looking back it wasn't all that. Rock just defended the main point about his passion for the business, and Cena had no response to that so he just resorted to the "satellite" jokes, then again I bet it was to be expected after all. /shrug

 

There are a handfull of people like you out there, and there is nothing wrong with "understanding" what he was doing. To me though, there is more truth in Cenas words then The Rocks. He was speaking as a "FAN" in his initial interview that The Rock is talking about. His point is solid, in my opinion. Distance himself away from the WWE all he wanted, but in all honesty, I don't think he would have had any worse luck.

 

You of course missed the whole point. Your talking about him leaving to make more money and movies. No one (not even Cena) has said anything bad about that. What you didn't address is the way he looked back on wrestling in almost every interview, as if that was almost an embarressment to bring it up to him. That and the fact he rarely showed up, even "Via Sattelite", is something he could have done different.

 

What was it Cena said? Just show up, raise an eyebrow, give "US" (talking about himself as well) all a thrill. You don't have to do anything but show up.

 

Who said Rock could, though? I mean sure he's back, but people forget he's still a movie star. All of a sudden, people get all exasperated and agree with Cena, like "omg just show up Rock!" when I may be the only guy who actually expected a slew of satellite promos to materialize after his big return. In fact, last week before this Raw, there wasn't even a satellite promo of him. Probably because he knew people would get dead tired of that already, so I'm guessing he's doing the best he could.

 

In my opinion, Rock should've probably never said "I'm back and I'm never going away". Lot of people took that to heart and they clench their fists now if he doesn't show up, when it's obvious he meant he'll show up every now and then when he has time ala 04. The "seven years" argument used against him I'll concede, but the satellite schtick I feel is being a bit unfair. He's doing a sizeable deed by being committed to both movies and wrestling, it's already something he came back... you feel as if people are taking this for granted already, lol.

 

This said, with all of this through, Cena has had the better hand through words, slightly. But it was honestly meant to be this way. No way the current biggest star of the company would look bad, even if against the Great One. At the end of the day though, Rock will always own Cena's candy-ass through character, delivery, etc. To me, that's all that matters.

[Moe Hunter]

I still dont get the blind hatred of John Cena. He is an absolute class act in every aspect of life. Ive never seen a bad article written about him and the way he treats our military people is nothing but classy.

I have no problem with him as a military ambassador, like a Bob Hope type. My problem with him is that he is not a very good wrestler. Which is a shame, because... he's a wrestler, not just an entertainer at USO shows.

 

He is suppose to be speaking for the fans which creative has him doing but of course it backfires because its Cena.

Or maybe because he's not speaking FOR the fans, just on their behalf. If the fans don't like what he's saying, clearly he's not representing them properly.

 

Its kind of odd that creative also has The Rock picking on Cena about the gimmick they created for him. No wonder why he gets booed.

So no wrestler is allowed to mock another? Cole mocking all of JR's catchphrases and his hat is odd? Kurt Angle mocking Austin's beer drinking is odd? The Rock mocking EVERYONE he's ever feuded with is odd?

 

Seriously, go watch the Armaggeddon 2000 promo again. It's BELOVED and Rock does nothing but mock "gimmicks they created".

[jbergey_2005]

I have no problem with him as a military ambassador, like a Bob Hope type. My problem with him is that he is not a very good wrestler. Which is a shame, because... he's a wrestler, not just an entertainer at USO shows.

 

You know a big reason for this is his gimmick correct? Do you think the kids want to see their superhero putting The Miz in an armbar for 3 minutes followed by a chinlock? Cena has been able to put on good matches in the past when hes not resticted. The "not a very good wrestler" angle is overused. He has a gimmick to play which is more important in the WWEs eyes.

 

As far as the other things you mention its all fine they can do what they want. Just doesnt make much sense to have your #1 face getting booed by the outspoken minority in the crowd to be shown on live TV when an angle is being set up. Perhaps the WWE wasnt aware that he was going to get booed like that. Who knows.

[Moe Hunter]

He is sloppy and botches way more than he should. His psychology is poor to non-existant. His selling is way way down. None of that is just "his gimmick". Please point me to matches where he's "not restricted", because even in some of his best matches he still fumbles around like he's not sure what he's doing, alternated with complete auto-pilot motion.

 

By the way, when did I ever indicate I wanted to see submission moves and restholds? Cena can't even do his one submission hold right. Does HBK do an armbar for 3 minutes and follow with a chinlock? Nope. But I don't think anyone's going to argue that HBK isn't a LOT better of a wrestler than Cena is.

 

I don't know how closely you've been watching Raw over the past six months or so, but ever since Cena was "fired", they've been very open about the idea of Cena getting booed. Also, "minority"? That's just not so. It's Chicago, WWE knew exactly what they were doing and what to expect. Notice how they opened with a heel getting cheered? Not only that, but a guy who ordinarily wouldn't open a show unless he was the current champ? They know what's up.

[ampulator]

He is sloppy and botches way more than he should. His psychology is poor to non-existant. His selling is way way down. None of that is just "his gimmick". Please point me to matches where he's "not restricted", because even in some of his best matches he still fumbles around like he's not sure what he's doing, alternated with complete auto-pilot motion.

 

By the way, when did I ever indicate I wanted to see submission moves and restholds? Cena can't even do his one submission hold right. Does HBK do an armbar for 3 minutes and follow with a chinlock? Nope. But I don't think anyone's going to argue that HBK isn't a LOT better of a wrestler than Cena is.

 

I don't know how closely you've been watching Raw over the past six months or so, but ever since Cena was "fired", they've been very open about the idea of Cena getting booed. Also, "minority"? That's just not so. It's Chicago, WWE knew exactly what they were doing and what to expect. Notice how they opened with a heel getting cheered? Not only that, but a guy who ordinarily wouldn't open a show unless he was the current champ? They know what's up.

To be honest, WWE has tried to make the Rock the heel in this fued. It just didn't work out that way. His bad skits didn't matter. Especially in a place a Chicago, this is just isn't going to work. He's the ROCK. So, to WWE's credit, they did a back-up, just in case it didn't turn out the way they wanted, which was the Miz.

 

Honestly, they set Cena up to look better than the Rock in the promo, but the Rock still got cheered. And the E's desperate right now. We'll see what they'll do.

[juggaloninjalee]

Ya know a month ago I was thinking that Wrestlemania was going to suck. Now I feel more anxious for Wrestlemania than I have in about 8 years. It could be a really great show however it could be one of the worst still. I wouldn't mind Rock costing Cena the title only to further a feud with him into Wrestlemania or even next month. Has the WWE ever had 2 heels win the Wrestlemania main events before? I really think Del Rio is going to beat Edge as well.

 

Either way I am excited about the show.

[Mr Rager]

I think my only disappointment in the build up to Mania this year is that there's no MITB match. Sure, maybe it's a match which doesn't have the same build-up to the rest of the matches on the card, but year after year it's been a highlight of the show for me. If you look at the roster you've got Bourne, R-Truth, Ted DiBiase, Kofi and McIntyre who aren't involved in the show at all at this point, as well as Morrison and Ziggler who are involved in that joke of a match with the girl from Jersey Shore. I know that MITB has its own event now, but I thought it was a lot more exciting when it was on the undercard of WM (in fact, I hate all of the gimmick match themed PPVs).

[MrOnu]

And there's go my very slim hope of a heel turn from Cena by attacking the Rock at Wrestlemania... I knew it was not going to happen, but at least, they could have let me dreamin' about it. Now, they ruined that with the RAW closing segment. At least, it didn't end up like I thought : A-Ri getting his ass whooped once again while Miz runs away.

 

I have to agree with Juggalo. 4 to 6 weeks ago, Wrestlemania looked very bland and uninteresting, but oh boy things have changed ! They even got me interested in Taker which hadn't happen in many years (sorry, not a fan of HBK).

[Mr Rager]

I wasn't remotely interested in the prospect of Taker/HHH until they made it No Holds Barred. Now you know it's gonna be awesome.

[OctoberRaven]

Meh. They oversold it for me, really. If they only did the first and last week of buildup, and none of the in-between stuff, I'd care more.

 

Much more interested in CHIKARA's King of Trios event than WM, which I might not even watch save for Lawler vs Cole.

[stx104]

Cena

 

I will be hosest, i am not a Cena fan, I believe that he is not a great wrestler, he has no psychology at all, his sto is one of the worst i have ever seen.

 

However there is one thing that cannot be denied, he is the single hardest working wrestler on the planet today. The kids love him, and that is why he is in the position he is today. If there is a charity event, Cena is the one to do it, if there is a Make a Wish deal to be done, Cena is first in the queue, amazingly he is one of the most requested "celebrities" that the make a wish foundation has. He is the biggest seller of merchandise in the WWE and that is why i don't think they will turn him heel.

 

Mondays RAW was excellent, the Rock and Cena interaction was brilliant, Miz was great interupting the Rock and then beating him down, and the tease of the Cena heel turn was done perfectly. Also the HHH/Taker/HBK segment was brillliant, nobody expected HBK to come down, and for him to then walk out of the ring and mouth "I'm sorry you cannot win" was excellent. It sets up Wrestlemania brilliantly.

 

I will be honest, as a wrestling fan for over 20 years, and watched every Wrestlemania LIVE since Wrestlemania 10, I am looking forward to this event as much as any I can remember. Can you honestly say with any confidence that Taker is going to keep the streak? Is Cena going to win the title? What about Edge and Del Rio? In previous events you always had an idea of who was going to win, but this year I am stumped.

[Mr Rager]

The only thing you can say is certain is that Michael Cole's ass is getting a Stunner.

[juggaloninjalee]

I will be hosest, i am not a Cena fan, I believe that he is not a great wrestler, he has no psychology at all, his sto is one of the worst i have ever seen.

 

However there is one thing that cannot be denied, he is the single hardest working wrestler on the planet today. The kids love him, and that is why he is in the position he is today. If there is a charity event, Cena is the one to do it, if there is a Make a Wish deal to be done, Cena is first in the queue, amazingly he is one of the most requested "celebrities" that the make a wish foundation has. He is the biggest seller of merchandise in the WWE and that is why i don't think they will turn him heel.

 

Mondays RAW was excellent, the Rock and Cena interaction was brilliant, Miz was great interupting the Rock and then beating him down, and the tease of the Cena heel turn was done perfectly. Also the HHH/Taker/HBK segment was brillliant, nobody expected HBK to come down, and for him to then walk out of the ring and mouth "I'm sorry you cannot win" was excellent. It sets up Wrestlemania brilliantly.

 

I will be honest, as a wrestling fan for over 20 years, and watched every Wrestlemania LIVE since Wrestlemania 10, I am looking forward to this event as much as any I can remember. Can you honestly say with any confidence that Taker is going to keep the streak? Is Cena going to win the title? What about Edge and Del Rio? In previous events you always had an idea of who was going to win, but this year I am stumped.

 

I feel like I know the answers to those scenarios though.

 

Miz over Cena

 

Del Rio over Edge

 

Undertaker over HHH

 

I am more certain about the outcome of Taker and Del Rio than the Cena vs Miz match. Cena could win by DQ cuz of the Rock but to me they shouldn't do that in the main event of Wrestlemania.